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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Dinoman96

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Ok, my mistake, but Tomb Raider has something your other Western examples don't have. It's owned by a Japanese company, and we've seen that Sakurai has picked characters Japan doesn't know at all too so I really don't see how Lara Croft, one of the most recognizable women in gaming history, if not in the top 5, would suffer from this
Yeah, but the characters that "Japan doesn't know at all" tend to still be notable Nintendo characters, like Little Mac and Ridley. I'm not convinced Sakurai and Nintendo would be wanting to add a third party guest character that would alienate their home country like that.
 

drag0nscythe

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Yeah, but the characters that "Japan doesn't know at all" tend to still be notable Nintendo characters, like Little Mac and Ridley. I'm not convinced Sakurai and Nintendo would be wanting to add a third party guest character that would alienate their home country like that.
But banjo.

Might get another east/west duo then.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Yeah, but the characters that "Japan doesn't know at all" tend to still be notable Nintendo characters, like Little Mac and Ridley. I'm not convinced Sakurai and Nintendo would be wanting to add a third party guest character that would alienate their home country like that.
Banjo Kazooie didn't even get 2 of it's 5 games released there and Nuts and Bolts may as well not have been released there considering the Xbox flopped hard in Japan, I don't give a **** about Nintendo associations, if Sakurai's willing to get Banjo from an Western company, which you yourself said he doesn't really do, he'd be willing to ask Square for Lara Croft, a significantly more recognizable character owned by a Japanese company.
 

Wunderwaft

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Realisticly/objectively speaking, the only western IPs that do feel "Smash worthy" are

Banjo-Kazooie (Nintendo history)
Crash Bandicoot (historical popularity in Japan)
Minecraft (contemporary popularity in Japan)

Tomb Raider wasn't that big of a deal there during the 90s so I don't think Lara would be that much of a compelling pick to Sakurai/NCL. To them, she's just a random Western character with no native star power, which is a problem a lot of other western characters like Rayman, Doom Slayer and Master Chief (as much as I'd like him in) have.
Ehh in Lara's defense her games were at least localized at the time for Japan. I disagree that the Japanese would look at Lara and think she's a random Western character, any person who is slightly interested in video games would know who she is even if only by her name, whether they're Japanese or Westerner or whatever.

Now is she more popular in the West than she is in Japan? Yes that's true, but she's not a literal who in Japan, that's something you might make the argument for Rayman or Doomguy but not Lara. Tomb Raider at least had some semblance of effort put into it's localization for Japan.
 

Fatmanonice

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The hell you talking about? Terry had no music, no mii costumes, no insiders even hinting at him until Nintendo leaked SNK themselves.

Microsoft had no mii costumes, no music, and nobody talking about them to a serious degree until that figure was shown off, then Shinobi leakes them.

Why the hell would any other Koei-Tecmo stuff leak or be rumored besides him when he's the only viable KT character? It's hands are already all over Smash Ultimate to begin with. They have been since launch.

Constituting it as leak bait because it's yet to happen was the same thing thing said when people were trying to throw Vergeben under the bus after Erdrick wasn't base or #1. There's literally no way to tell whether those rumors had any base or not right now so just assuming they were leak bait tells is just sorta dismissive of what gas happened before.

Edit: if you DO have some evidence or rumors to back up the fact that he just happened to be leak bait then, by all means, please DM me. You have my attention to say thebleast.
Yeah, I can DM you on this topic but, to quote Terry, "are you okay?"
 

Dinoman96

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But banjo.

Might get another east/west duo then.
Like I said on the other page, Banjo is an extremely special and specific case in that he was originally a Nintendo mascot during the N64 era before he was gobbled up by another company after the fallout between Rare and Nintendo. Also in Japan, their first game sold 400k (which is how much the original release of Persona 5 sold) on a console that sold worse than the Sega Saturn there.

And really, the main thing that got Banjo & Kazooie into Smash was the massive fan demand they had, which was obviously because of their deep rooted history with Nintendo. Doesn't exactly apply to Lara.
 
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Knight Dude

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Ok, I gotta complaint about our little community.

I'm irritated that people continue to say this, "Everyone wanted [insert extremely popular character] but whenever they get in people drop them a week later", I'm paraphrasing but this is the most untrue thing I've ever heard thrown around these boards.

There are 5 specific characters that I pulled for ever since I've been on these boards that made it into Ultimate. 6 YEARS of supporting these characters, of waiting for those characters. They are Snake, K. Rool, Ridley, Simon, and Banjo. Those 5 have carried me through my entire time on these boards because of my love for them, and what? Just because they're not new means that I'm over them? There are 4 of those that I go back to multiple times each time I play. They are at the top of my playtime list and they are well deserving. Ridley is the only character that I didn't jive with gameplay wise and yet I still get a little sense of childhood joy everytime I see his scary ass face on the roster. I play Snake the first game EVERY TIME I boot up Ultimate. I play Banjo all the time on different Nintendo stages, especially Mario, because of the childlike wonder that brings me. I play as K. Rool all the time because how goofy and fun his animations are. I play Simon all the time because of how happy it makes me to see one of my favorite franchises alive and well.

So, please, please stop saying this phrase. It is just incorrect. Ultimate has been out for over a year and I still haven't gotten over that Snake, Simon, ****ing Ridley, ****ing K. Rool, MOTHA ****ING BANJO-KAZOOIE, are in Smash. Everytime I see them, everytime I play them, it just makes me happy. And I'll probably never lose that feeling. And I'm 100% sure this isn't just me.
Same here. I still play Mega Man and Ridley most games. And I still mess around with Samus, Ganon and Ryu. It's just that now it branches out to characters like Terry and Simon and so on.

Bruh, there's over 70 something characters, you won't always play everyone, but chances are you'll have 3 or 4 favorites you pick over everybody else.
 

CHAMPIONX9

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She's bigger then Sora but not bigger then Crash and certainly not more then Chief.
Kingdom hearts -> 20 million sales
Crash -> 40 million sales
Halo -> 65 million sales
Tomb raider -> 75 million sales
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Reading PusDustin tweets about Sakurai's last column, I find interesting that he said that FP2 will take over a year to be completed, just like FP1 (that started with Joker announcement at 12/18 and ended with Byleth release at 01/20, that 1 year and 2 months aprox). So, I think that the longest we will wait for the announcement of FP6 is E3 2020 and thus gives us two possible release schedules:

First scenario (most optimistic):
FP6: april/may 2020 (winter direct)
FP7: july 2020 (E3 2020)
FP8: september 2020 (E3 2020)
FP9: november 2020 (summer direct)
FP10: january/february 2021 (VGA 2020 or separate announcement)
FP11: april/may 2021 (winter direct)

Second scenario (less optimistic):
FP6: july 2020 (E3 2020)
FP7: september 2020 (E3 2020)
FP8: november 2020 (summer direct)
FP9: january/february 2021 (VGA 2020 or separate announcement)
FP10: april/may 2021 (winter direct)
FP11: july/august (E3 2021)
E3 is June not July.
But banjo.

Might get another east/west duo then.
Isn't Banjo popular in Japan as well? I recall there were fans there excited about him when revealed.
 
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CapitaineCrash

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I wouldn't be against Lara because I love Tomb raider and I know she's very important, but I think a problem that comes to mind is moveset potential. I'm not saying she doesn't have any moveset potential, but she's really just a regular human, and she doesn't use as much gadget as Snake for example. So I wonder what could she brings on the table that makes her feel very unique, while still keeping the feel that you're playing as a regular archeologist.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Lara definitely earns her spot.

More so then Sora, 2B, Geno, Neku, etc.

She's THE female video game protagonist and was big in the 90s with Crash being recognizable alongside Mario and Sonic.

A pretty good reason we might be kinda sleeping on her.
 

Michael the Spikester

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While I don't have numbers, I'd be very surprised if Square's third best selling franchise was smaller than 1 game
I think you quoted my wrong post. :p

But yeah I actually forgot at that moment Tomb Raider didn't sell well in Japan...Still given her iconness she earns a spot in Smash.
 
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SNEKeater

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While I don't personally think she is more iconic than Crash or Master Chief. I whole heartedly want Lara Croft in this game regardless. She is quite the female video game star. Right up there with Chun'li, Peach, Zelda, and Morrigan.

Then again.... Tomb Raider has it's own movies and what not. The series (Tomb Raider) vs the character (Lara Croft) in an *iconic* battle is quite an intriguing debacle.
I can't allow you to disrespect my girl Samus. The first female protagonist in videogames, or at least among the first ones.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I think you quoted my wrong post. :p

But yeah I actually forgot at that moment Tomb Raider didn't sell well in Japan...Still given her iconness she earns a spot in Smash.
No, I meant to reply to 'Banjo is popular in Japan' because I can't find full sales data for Tomb Raider's Japanese sales nor do I know if the number Banjo Bros show off is the whole series or a specific game
 

mynameisBlade

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I can't allow you to disrespect my girl Samus. The first female protagonist in videogames, or at least among the first ones.
Tbh.. I knew there was someone I was forgetting. I had to think long and hard to even come across Morrigan. *Fixed* :D
 

Knight Dude

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I see people are still using the violence as a reason as to why MK couldn't make it in. Sure, people complained about MK vs DC's lack of violence. Yet this wasn't really the case for Injustice 1 nor Injustice 2. If a singular MK character was in Smash and was handled in a way that was similar to the Injustice titles, it'd likely not be an issue. And of course characters like Snake and Bayo (and to a lesser extend Castlevania)have blood and violence in their series. The latter of which kind of uses as a selling point like MK. Take the more exaggerated elements from the first 4 Arcade MK games and they'll fit right in I think. Using stuff like Friendships would be a good way of poking fun of the situation. Granted there's some Fatalites that can be used that don't leave a lot of blood.

Sub-Zero Friendship MK3.gif


I think it'd have to do with a lack of requests and Japan in particular having a really small MK fanbase. So while I don't particularly see an MK character happening, as much as I'd like it to. Because of this lack of popularity in Japan, I don't know if the devs would go through the effort of doing so. At least in Lara's case, she's kind of a bigger character. And maybe being owned by Square helps, no idea. We have examples of characters being modified to keep in line for the rating. On top Sub-Zero and Scorpion doing the same within the two Injustice titles as playable characters.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I can't allow you to disrespect my girl Samus. The first female protagonist in videogames, or at least among the first ones.
Samus is actually the 4th, there's Barbie, a Namco shooter called Barbaduke and a game called Ninja Princess, all of which preceed Metroid, though Samus is the only one people remember as Barbie isn't exactly known for video games
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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One thing I want to point out...objectively saying, "X series fits Smash" is basically just saying that they subjectively deserve it.

I could say, "Considering Joker got in, I think 2B or Geralt is in and they earned it from having a really great game!". It's like the same thing.
---
That said, I think there's still a stellar pool of candidates available for Smash. Just because they're on this list I'm about to make doesn't mean they're happening, likely, or anything else. Just a bunch of gaming characters that I think could be in the mix:

Crash Bandicoot
Dante
Phoenix Wright
Travis Touchdown
Heihachi
Lloyd Irving
Neku Sakuraba
Tracer
Geralt (yeah he doesn't originate as a gaming character, but I don't know that he's quite the same situation as Goku or Iron Man)
2B
Lara Croft
Ezio (doubt this one because of the Altair costume)
Sol Badguy

I don't know, there are some really awesome choices, and I'm finding it hard for me to be completely disappointed by the total lineup. I'm sure at least one of the picks won't even be on this list. I just find there are some really great choices and any of the ones here would get me pretty hyped.
 

Rie Sonomura

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One thing I want to point out...objectively saying, "X series fits Smash" is basically just saying that they subjectively deserve it.

I could say, "Considering Joker got in, I think 2B or Geralt is in and they earned it from having a really great game!". It's like the same thing.
---
That said, I think there's still a stellar pool of candidates available for Smash. Just because they're on this list I'm about to make doesn't mean they're happening, likely, or anything else. Just a bunch of gaming characters that I think could be in the mix:

Crash Bandicoot
Dante
Phoenix Wright
Travis Touchdown
Heihachi
Lloyd Irving
Neku Sakuraba
Tracer
Geralt (yeah he doesn't originate as a gaming character, but I don't know that he's quite the same situation as Goku or Iron Man)
2B
Lara Croft
Ezio (doubt this one because of the Altair costume)
Sol Badguy

I don't know, there are some really awesome choices, and I'm finding it hard for me to be completely disappointed by the total lineup. I'm sure at least one of the picks won't even be on this list. I just find there are some really great choices and any of the ones here would get me pretty hyped.
im a person of simple tastes, I see Neku listed as likely, I GOTTA drop a like
 

mynameisBlade

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I see people are still using the violence as a reason as to why MK couldn't make it in. Sure, people complained about MK vs DC's lack of violence. Yet this wasn't really the case for Injustice 1 nor Injustice 2. If a singular MK character was in Smash and was handled in a way that was similar to the Injustice titles, it'd likely not be an issue. And of course characters like Snake and Bayo (and to a lesser extend Castlevania)have blood and violence in their series. The latter of which kind of uses as a selling point like MK. Take the more exaggerated elements from the first 4 Arcade MK games and they'll fit right in I think. Using stuff like Friendships would be a good way of poking fun of the situation. Granted there's some Fatalites that can be used that don't leave a lot of blood.

View attachment 263249

I think it'd have to do with a lack of requests and Japan in particular having a really small MK fanbase. So while I don't particularly see an MK character happening, as much as I'd like it to. Because of this lack of popularity in Japan, I don't know if the devs would go through the effort of doing so. At least in Lara's case, she's kind of a bigger character. And maybe being owned by Square helps, no idea. We have examples of characters being modified to keep in line for the rating. On top Sub-Zero and Scorpion doing the same within the two Injustice titles as playable characters.
It'd be amazing to see MK get in. Nobody is expecting it... Literally Nobody. If Sakurai wanted to REALLY shock people. He'd get it done. And toss a "FRIENDSHIP" in of course!
 

CroonerMike

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One thing I want to point out...objectively saying, "X series fits Smash" is basically just saying that they subjectively deserve it.

I could say, "Considering Joker got in, I think 2B or Geralt is in and they earned it from having a really great game!". It's like the same thing.
---
That said, I think there's still a stellar pool of candidates available for Smash. Just because they're on this list I'm about to make doesn't mean they're happening, likely, or anything else. Just a bunch of gaming characters that I think could be in the mix:

Crash Bandicoot
Dante
Phoenix Wright
Travis Touchdown
Heihachi
Lloyd Irving
Neku Sakuraba
Tracer
Geralt (yeah he doesn't originate as a gaming character, but I don't know that he's quite the same situation as Goku or Iron Man)
2B
Lara Croft
Ezio (doubt this one because of the Altair costume)
Sol Badguy
I don't know, there are some really awesome choices, and I'm finding it hard for me to be completely disappointed by the total lineup. I'm sure at least one of the picks won't even be on this list. I just find there are some really great choices and any of the ones here would get me pretty hyped.
Hey you! Stop being optimistic! You need to be pessimistic. I’ll call Wynn and Nessdeltarune for you, they are usually good and ruining the conversation.

but being serious for a moment, no I agree, I can’t find myself being disappointed.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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im a person of simple tastes, I see Neku listed as likely, I GOTTA drop a like
To be fair, I'm not exactly saying any of those picks are "likely", I just think they're all names that should be in the mix. There are others but that post was basically just spitballing.

Hey you! Stop being optimistic! You need to be pessimistic. I’ll call Wynn and Nessdeltarune for you, they are usually good and ruining the conversation.

but being serious for a moment, no I agree, I can’t find myself being disappointed.
Eh, I find it's hard for me to be upset with anything we get. I've definitely broadened my interests because I was curious. I was once the dude who only played Nintendo and thought 3rd parties were evil, but now I've played so many fantastic games that aren't Nintendo exclusive and think many of those characters would be really cool and bring something fresh.

Basically, do I think most of the 1st parties picks suggested around these parts aren't as good as the 3rd party options we have? Subjectively, yes. I currently feel that way. But that's my opinion, and clearly some folks feel differently.

Either way, I've gotten a lot that I asked for in Ultimate, so even if I were to not get any one of Dante, Lloyd Irving, 2B, or even Geralt, I'll be fine.
 

osby

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Remember when you had a breakdown back in the day about how much of a loser you felt you were, iirc like you were only good for leaks, and cried about it publicly on Smashboards?

Are YOU okay?
I know I defended Mortal Kombat but this might be too violent for Smash.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
For real I cannot tell you how great it is that Terry has Buster Wolf in his regular moveset, imagine how ****ing cool that would have been to see in Terry's trailer had they chosen to show the full thing off
very nice of terry to ask me how im doing before blowing my ****ing head off with a punch

because truth be told mr bogard im not doing too hot, see ive hit a rough patch recently and i really needed someone to show they care! thanks
 

NonSpecificGuy

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Yeah, I can DM you on this topic but, to quote Terry, "are you okay?"
Look dude, you could be right. I'm not denying that. But the way you worded your post made it out to where you looked like you were contradicting yourself. That's all.
 

Gentlepanda

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very nice of terry to ask me how im doing before blowing my ****ing head off with a punch

because truth be told mr bogard im not doing too hot, see ive hit a rough patch recently and i really needed someone to show they care! thanks
[asmr] terry bogard breaks into your house at 3am with a buster wolf punch to check up on you and make sure you're ok
 

osby

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[asmr] terry bogard breaks into your house at 3am with a buster wolf punch to check up on you and make sure you're ok
If you are worried about your friends, throw out an energy punch while quickly sliding forward along the ground and asking, "Are you okay?"
 
D

Deleted member

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Who cares about leaks, it's 2020 and we should all believe another FE character is coming to make up for the terrible start the last fighter's pass had
 

SKX31

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If you are worried about your friends, throw out an energy punch while quickly sliding forward along the ground and asking, "Are you okay?"
And then, when you've gathered your friends, you punch the ground to start a campfire. Make sure you yell out "POWA GEYSA!".
 

AreJay25

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Everyone wants to commend Terry for his willingness to ask about people's current status in life, but no one ever criticizes him for calling Wolf a buster

What did Mr. O'Donnell ever do to you, Mr. Bogard
 
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