Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Evil Trapezium]

Didn't say which Ryu.

If this is dead, how come I can still play as him? He's alive and well.

Fake. Mario and Luigi were both brutally murdered before Ultimate's releas and they still managed to make it into smash just fine. Give Ryu a couple months and I'm sure he'll recover from being murdered.

Mario and Luigi didn't die for real. It's all special effects. Otherwise Sakurai would be arrested and we wouldn't have Super Smash Bros Ultimate.

He should probably kill Isabelle for real though.

 

[Deleted member]

So with Hayabusa one of the current discussions. How would you guys rate his chances in terms of percentage? I'm curious.

Me I'd probably at least put him over 50%.

I have him at 50%, but it's mainly because I think Koei-Tecmo will get a rep in Smash and it'll be between him and a Dynasty Warriors character like Zhao Yun or Lu Bu. Ninja Gaiden has the NES legacy going for it while Dynasty Warriors has a legacy of its own spawning the Musou genre and being the biggest Koei-Tecmo franchise to date.

and since I'm bringing up Dynasty Warriors, it's the 20th Anniversary of Shin Sangoku Musou this year (also known as Dynasty Warriors 2 in the west), and it seems they're teasing a new project for 2020. The whole site's in Japanese though, and I don't expect this new project to be related to Smash at all. I just wanted to bring this up since I'm mentioning DW again.

 

[Curious Villager]

So with Hayabusa one of the current discussions. How would you guys rate his chances in terms of percentage? I'm curious.

Me I'd probably at least put him over 50%.

I'd give him a 50%. Though mostly because of Kooie Tecmo in general. He either happens or he won't.

I kind of view Level-5 on a similar page as well as far as absent Japanese companies go, even though their apparently more on the dark horse candidate side with the rest of the community...

 

[SNEKeater]

The thing that makes me want to see Ryu in a crossover isn't him fighting other ninjas, it's him possibly fighting other action game icons like Bayonetta or Dante and Kratos if they get in. There are people who remember Ryu more fondly as an NES icon, but I remember him more so as an action game icon and I would love to see the day where Ryu dukes it out with Dante and Kratos.

Same. Ninja Gaiden is in a curious spot in that sense. The classic NES game pops up for some people while for others, his action/hack n slash games are the first ones coming to mind.
If he gets in I think that most of the content and references will came from the classic games, but yeah, seeing him fighting with Bayonetta and Dante would be super cool.

Ryu and Dante being at the same time in pass 2 is a scenario I could see happen, but if we somehow manage to be in the timeline where these two are coming alongside Kratos, that for sure would be a pipe dream for people who loves crazy action games.

 

[Seanapotamus]

Fake. Mario and Luigi were both brutally murdered before Ultimate's releas and they still managed to make it into smash just fine. Give Ryu a couple months and I'm sure he'll recover from being murdered.

Mega Man, Ken, and (probably) King Dedede also died prior to Ultimate's release and they still recovered and made it into the game quite soundly.

So with Hayabusa one of the current discussions. How would you guys rate his chances in terms of percentage? I'm curious.

Me I'd probably at least put him over 50%.

Personally I'd say around a 50-60% chance he gets in, which is still a good chance. Ultimately he's either one of the characters or he won't be one of them.

 

[snowgolem]

okay I’m gonna help some confused people really quick.
Just because we already have SF Ryu doesn’t mean it’s impossible to get NG Ryu.
Now I’m not saying anybody said this, and I know those who compared them were only kidding, but I have seen people say Hayabusa wasn’t likely due to this reason. So just know this isn’t targeted towards anyone.
Anyways, to get to the why-this-isn’t-true part.

didn’t know if this was obvious but if you knew
Congrats
And if you didnt
Now you do

 

[Idon]

okay I’m gonna help some confused people really quick.
Just because we already have SF Ryu doesn’t mean it’s impossible to get NG Ryu.
Now I’m not saying anybody said this, and I know those who compared them were only kidding, but I have seen people say Hayabusa wasn’t likely due to this reason. So just know this isn’t targeted towards anyone.
Anyways, to get to the why-this-isn’t-true part.
View attachment 263268
View attachment 263269
didn’t know if this was obvious but if you knew
Congrats
And if you didnt
Now you do

Why'd you post the same image twice?

 

[shinhed-echi]

I figured I'd ask what peoples' opinions on Ryu Hayabusa are. Not sure if he's a hot topic in this thread in particular but he's just one of those characters that's been lingering around in speculation forever and wanted to see how people here feel about him going into Season 2.

Well, I think he’s been discussed to death in Pass 1, and since he was always the “definitely next” character throughout it, he’s probably not as exciting / interesting to talk about. Most likely due to the boy who cried wolf scenario.

That said, he’s a character i would really like to see. Tecmo-Koei has had a lot of partnerships with Nintendo, don’t think I need to go in-depth here. A small part of me is concerned that Nintendo not approving Samus for Dead or Alive on 3DS makes them not want to share Ryu Hayabusa. It’s stupid and silly and stupid again, I know. It’s just a tiny concern.

I don’t see why Mai is still used as a point against characters like Doomguy when her problem was CERO being more against upskirts than guns; Sakurai likely didn’t want to mess with her design, or SNK didn’t want it. If they wanted to, they could still get Doomguy, though it seems they’ve decided on other characters.

Not to mention, from what I’ve read from other users, Joker’s way of summoning his persona is...oof, and they censored him just fine. The blood that would’ve been in his final smash was also changed to stars. Doomguy can work just with brutal moves like Ridley.

Can I get an A-MEN!

Basically this. Blood isn’t as protagonistic of a feature as people make it out to be. The brutality of the glory kills? Maybe that, yes. In the 2016 game and Eternal most likely only. But there are 4 more Doom games where it’s not necessarily huge on blood.
Heck, if Bayonetta can work without being stripped naked entirely, then Doomguy can work without blood.
Ganondorf and Ridley can still be brutal, so why can’t Doomguy?

Oh and yeah, Joker’s final smash always rubs me the wrong way.

 

[SpectreJordan]

One thing I want to point out...objectively saying, "X series fits Smash" is basically just saying that they subjectively deserve it.

I could say, "Considering Joker got in, I think 2B or Geralt is in and they earned it from having a really great game!". It's like the same thing.
---
That said, I think there's still a stellar pool of candidates available for Smash. Just because they're on this list I'm about to make doesn't mean they're happening, likely, or anything else. Just a bunch of gaming characters that I think could be in the mix:

Crash Bandicoot
Dante
Phoenix Wright
Travis Touchdown
Heihachi
Lloyd Irving
Neku Sakuraba
Tracer
Geralt (yeah he doesn't originate as a gaming character, but I don't know that he's quite the same situation as Goku or Iron Man)
2B
Lara Croft
Ezio (doubt this one because of the Altair costume)
Sol Badguy

I don't know, there are some really awesome choices, and I'm finding it hard for me to be completely disappointed by the total lineup. I'm sure at least one of the picks won't even be on this list. I just find there are some really great choices and any of the ones here would get me pretty hyped.

Sadly, I don’t see how you could justify Geralt. Sure he’s in a different position than Goku, since he’s now way more famous as a game character than a book character. But he still didn’t debut as a game character.

 

[Flik]

Just because we already have SF Ryu doesn’t mean it’s impossible to get NG Ryu.

I don't know how anyone would see that as a problem when NG Ryu is always called Hayabusa.

 

[Eldrake]

Sadly, I don’t see how you could justify Geralt. Sure he’s in a different position than Goku, since he’s now way more famous as a game character than a book character. But he still didn’t debut as a game character.

Yeah, I don't really understand it either. It'd be like if I was trying to justify Karl Franz as a candidate for Smash with the reasoning that Warhammer Fantasy Battle is basically more of a video game (thanks to Total War) than a tabletop game ever since Games Workshop ceased support for it.

 

[cosmicB]

If this is dead, how come I can still play as him? He's alive and well.

This got me thinking which characters on the roster are canonically dead by this point in time in their respective series.

If we ignore time related shenanigans (like something taking places hundreds of years later in the same canon such as original Fire Emblem and Awakening), villains that keep reviving somehow (Ganondorf/Ridley), and ambiguous situations (two come to mind, but not saying because big spoilers), we're left with only 1 character that is canoncially and unarguably dead by the end of their role in their respective games among all 75 fighters.

Let's somehow turn this into a new speculation theory. Season 2 is only canonically dead characters! I can think of 1 I want right off the bat.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I love Xander's take on the two Roys. Mainly the tone of how he says their names. He says FE Roy's name in the tone of a triumphant hero, while Koopaling Roy is said in a sinister tone for a villain.

 

[Eldrake]

Let's somehow turn this into a new speculation theory. Season 2 is only canonically dead characters! I can think of 1 I want right off the bat.

We should consider this with the E theory. Canonically dead characters with at least one E in their name.

 

[Krankees]

Let's somehow turn this into a new speculation theory. Season 2 is only canonically dead characters! I can think of 1 I want right off the bat.

Welp time to stay away to avoid potential spoilers.

 

[Schnee117]

Season 2 is only canonically dead characters!

Wow I can't believe we're getting an Assassin's Creed pass.

 

[Seanapotamus]

We should consider this with the E theory. Canonically dead characters with at least one E in their name.

There is one character out of several who fits this theory:

Spoiler

Heihachi

 

[Rie Sonomura]

We should consider this with the E theory. Canonically dead characters with at least one E in their name.

Spoiler

Aerith confirmed y'all

Neku too? He's technically dead

 

[cosmicB]

Welp time to stay away to avoid potential spoilers.

I wasn't being serious, lol

That discussion would be impossible to have unless we kept it to old stuff that literally everyone knows at this point. Even saying the series name would be a spoiler in most cases.

 

[AreJay25]

We should consider this with the E theory. Canonically dead characters with at least one E in their name.

Didn't think we'd get another Fatal Fury character so soon but I guess Geese had to get in eventually.

 

[Herocin]

We should consider this with the E theory. Canonically dead characters with at least one E in their name.

LuEgE. About time too.

 

[Krankees]

I wasn't being serious, lol

That discussion would be impossible to have unless we kept it to old stuff that literally everyone knows at this point. Even saying the series name would be a spoiler in most cases.

I wasn't that serious about staying away. Just wanted to joke around and point out that we'll probably be getting spoilers. Speaking of which:

We should consider this with the E theory. Canonically dead characters with at least one E in their name.

Spoiler

Akechi confirmed

 

[Evil Trapezium]

We should consider this with the E theory. Canonically dead characters with at least one E in their name.

Well if you consider a series being canonically dead in real life, then...

SErgEant CortEz is dead! Time to- wait... that's bad...

 

[Captain Shwampy]

we need talk about metabee in smash

 

[MagnesD3]

Everyone always talks about Crash and while he'd be super cool, no one ever gives Spyro any love here...

I know it’s really sad but the truth is Crash will get in first, there’s no way around that

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

In regards to dead characters that should be in, I'm still mad Zack wasn't an echo for Cloud. During prerelease I was so hopeful when I saw they removed Cloud's black SOLDIER alt.

Then again, I was also hopeful that we'd get more FF content at all.

 

[Deleted member]

In regards to dead characters that should be in, I'm still mad Zack wasn't an echo for Cloud. During prerelease I was so hopeful when I saw they removed Cloud's black SOLDIER alt.

Then again, I was also hopeful that we'd get more FF content at all.

Zack doesn't really need to be an echo. We've got 4 different Dragon Quest protagonists as costume alts, 8 bowser children, Advent Children Cloud, and Alph's alt for Olimar; Zack is essentially just a black haired Cloud, so he could just be a costume; not a full blown echo.

 

[Knight Dude]

We should consider this with the E theory. Canonically dead characters with at least one E in their name.

Geese Confirmed BAY-BEE!

WHINING FOOLS BEGONE!

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Geese Confirmed BAY-BEE!

WHINING FOOLS BEGONE!

The goose from Untitled Goose Game is also confirmed. However, Sakurai only has enough resources to make one of them playable.

The solution, of course, is obvious...

 

[TheShiningAbsol]

Zack doesn't really need to be an echo. We've got 4 different Dragon Quest protagonists as costume alts, 8 bowser children, Advent Children Cloud, and Alph's alt for Olimar; Zack is essentially just a black haired Cloud, so he could just be a costume; not a full blown echo.

Well we didn't get that either :^(

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Everyone always talks about Crash and while he'd be super cool, no one ever gives Spyro any love here...

I'm a fan of Spyro too and would be cool with him in Smash... But not before Crash Bandicoot and most fans of both characters/franchises would likely agree if we are trying to be "Realistic".

Let's be honest while both were the 1-2 punch platforming mascots on the Playstation during that era, Crash Bandicoot was and still is the bigger name of the 2, Hell Crash got spinoffs in the form of a Kart racer and Party game outside of the original trilogy which says a lot about the brand power of the franchise at the time something that Spyro never got despite the franchise's success too.(Spyro appearing as a guest character in Crash Bandicoot's world via Nitro Fueled further cements that too.)

Also just like many have mentioned before Crash Bandicoot has the advantage of being one of the first and few western IP's that actually was popular and caught on in Japan/East, Unfortunately the same can't be said for our purple dragon friend. (While not necessarily required, It certainly helps)

Other Minor Details/Advantages:

Let's not forget that Crash Bandicoot was the 1st of the 2 franchises to debut and establish himself as the face of the Playstation brand back in 1996 and the trilogy wrapped up with "Warped" in 1998 the same year Spyro was just barely about to make his debut.

Also because of their origins and ties with Sony and Universal at the time Spyro's demo can also be unlocked in "Warped's" Menu so in a way Crash Bandicoot helped introduce Spyro the Dragon to many young gamers for the first time too.

It would be great to get both into Super Smash Bros Ultimate, But chances are it's gonna be first and likely only Crash, The only way I can see Spyro making it in is if Nintendo and Activision struck an "Ultimatum" deal that they have to include both or nothing, While possible, I just don't see Activison being that stubborn to let that happen.

 

[Lamperouge]

Wow I can't believe we're getting an Assassin's Creed pass.

But we already have Altaïr from the Altaïr series as a Mii costume...

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Wow I can't believe we're getting an Assassin's Creed pass.

That's historically AND Canonically dead. Double whammy there.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Zack doesn't really need to be an echo. We've got 4 different Dragon Quest protagonists as costume alts, 8 bowser children, Advent Children Cloud, and Alph's alt for Olimar; Zack is essentially just a black haired Cloud, so he could just be a costume; not a full blown echo.

Hmmm I would’ve actually liked Zack as a costume, come to think of it.
I’m my case, he could replace the Advent Children costumes, but since people really seem to like them, I guess he could have taken 2 AC slots, and maybe 2 original slots.

I still can’t believe we got a whopping 4 different Heroes for alts. And they’re all from my favorite games in the series. And even the alts reference other favorites.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I can't believe an entire discussion on dead fictional characters happened without Dark Souls being mentioned once.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

As was Dante vs. Bayonetta. They ****ed Dante's regeneration to Deadpool levels when its really nowhere close to that. Bayonetta should had easily splattered him given she can headbutt skyscrapers with ease.

One of the reasons I stopped watching the series especially given their love for No Limit Fallacies.

So... you're not going to bring up Knuckles vs. Donkey Kong?

 

[Icedragonadam]

We're talking about dead characters who have e in their name and no mention of Sir Daniel Fortesque? For shame Smashboards!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Zack doesn't really need to be an echo. We've got 4 different Dragon Quest protagonists as costume alts, 8 bowser children, Advent Children Cloud, and Alph's alt for Olimar; Zack is essentially just a black haired Cloud, so he could just be a costume; not a full blown echo.

Yep. Unfortunately we got Cloud, Advent Cloud, Black Cloud, Shadow Cloud, Dark Cloud, Navy Cloud, Non-Light Blue Cloud, and Half-Gray Cloud.

...I ran out of joke colors, yes.

 

[Pallex]

We should consider this with the E theory. Canonically dead characters with at least one E in their name.

Aww yeah,

Spoiler

2E confirmed.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/echo-from-the-void.tumblr.com/post/175430328834/amp

 

[Guynamednelson]

We should consider this with the E theory. Canonically dead characters with at least one E in their name.

Mai isn't suitable for good boys and girls, but apparently Shermie is.