Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[MalcolmBelmont]

Most likely from Cygames is Dragalia Lost, considering if Nintendo would want to put a Mobile Game character in smash. Which I don't necessarily see a problem with.

I see no reason why they wouldn't want a Mobile Game charcter in Smash especially since it's on they technically own. If we go by under the phillsosphy Nintendo Executives were partially responsible for the FP2 choices - having a charcter from a recent Nintendo Franchise that has been doing well in Sales and has has multiple crossovers with other franchise plus it could be a good way of promoting Nintendo's Mobile Line. I think Euden has a good chance of being a charcter in Smash Bros especially since he's 1st party technically and much eaiser to get. Though they could end up going with Granblue Fantasy since it's more well-known in Japan and it's Cygames's most popular franchise.

If i was guessing what's going to be the DLC Roster:

Eduen or Granblue Fantasy Rep
Pokemon Sword and Shield Rep
Travis Touchdown
Non Japanese Charcter (Crash or maybe Master Cheif)
Ryu Hayabusa
Sol Badguy

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I knew it! He was intended to be revealed/released earlier, that's why his trailer is designed like a bait-and-switch trailer! Now I just wonder why the delay.

Aren't like 90% of Smash trailer not obvious it's Smash if you get rid of the little animation at the beginning with the logo?

My guess is that they overestimated the dev team which is why V2's so much longer despite only 1 extra character

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Not to mention the models in the background. Banjo has like 6 or so? Terry's stage is about 20. And Byleth at 10 or so, right?

Yeah, I think they probably used the KoF XIV models as a base, but they still had to remodel all of them to fit their most iconic designs, which in some cases must have been quite a bit of work. The Three Houses cameo models are all straight from the game (and look super wonky as a result), while I imagine the Banjo ones had to be build from scratch, but of course they're few.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Not to mention the models in the background. Banjo has like 6 or so? Terry's stage is about 20. And Byleth at 10 or so, right?

I'm thinking it has to do with the behavior of the characters. Yggdrasil's Altar and Spiral Mountain have the fewest cameos, but they also do more stuff in the background and move around more, while the ones in Mementos, KoF Stadium and Garreg Mach stay still for the most part, with the stage focusing more on the hazards and transformations.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I’m confused on how this is a deconfirmation for Sora.

I watched the video, and all I heard was that negotiations happened, but he thinks that Disney Japan could be an obstacle.

Can someone please explain how this is a deconfirmation?

 

[Pinguino21v]

I'm a bit confused how this deconfirms Sora. One of the guys at the table still thinks he's happening even after Imran said that, which was insinuated to be what he THINKS happened and not what he knows. Is there a later timestamp, because this isn't upfront at all.

Exactly. I don't understand everyone jumping on conclusion when some dude, as much as he could be known, gives his opinion.

 

[Flyboy]

To me it sounds like the negotiations for Sora were broached for Sm4sh and Pass 1. Nothing on pass 2.

Sakurai mentioned in his book that above Bayonetta were Snake and a character that negotiations weren't able to be done for. This lines up perfectly all around.

I don't think this is at all a deconfirmation for pass 2 especially since even more recently we've heard that Disney Japan is open to it.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

Obviously Disney JP said no to Sora because they clearly know who the better option is.

Spoiler

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Obviously Disney JP said no to Sora because they clearly know who the better option is.

Spoiler

View attachment 261280

Silly, thats not Xemnas

 

[Cosmic77]

If what Verge said was true (and it's possible it's not), there were a number of SE characters on the table for Ultimate's base roster. Some of these included Sora, Geno, and Erdrick. They ultimately chose Erdrick, but SE wanted to hold him off for DLC to make more money. This character became Hero.

I don't know if all of this is accurate, and I don't know if this is the negotiations for Sora he was referring to, but they seem to fit together.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If what Verge said was true (and it's possible it's not), there were a number of SE characters on the table for Ultimate's base roster. Some of these included Sora, Geno, and Erdrick. They ultimately chose Erdrick, but SE wanted to hold him off for DLC to make more money. This character became Hero.

I don't know if all of this is accurate, and I don't know if this is the negotiations for Sora he was referring to, but they seem to fit together.

To be fair I don’t see Sephiroth anywhere and Geno’s still nothing more (or less) than a Spirit. Unless either becomes DLC or a costume I wouldn’t hold my breath for Sora either way

context: they were also in the square seven. Wasn’t Crono from CT there too?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If what Verge said was true (and it's possible it's not), there were a number of SE characters on the table for Ultimate's base roster. Some of these included Sora, Geno, and Erdrick. They ultimately chose Erdrick, but SE wanted to hold him off for DLC to make more money. This character became Hero.

I don't know if all of this is accurate, and I don't know if this is the negotiations for Sora he was referring to, but they seem to fit together.

Luminary was on that list too y know

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Ive never seen anyone hate Sora more then Geno fans who are dead set on thinking he is "Compitition"

Makes me sad because there isnt wrong with having both characters but if it isnt Geno, its compitition to them

 

[nessdeltarune00]

With this brought to light about them trying to get Sora and Master Chief in the game, can we just take the time to appreciate just how much these people are willing to do for the fans of this game?

It really seems like Sakurai and Co are doing there absolutely best to make this game even more extraordinary than it already is (Even just the base roster was enough). They are literally treating this game like its the last by trying to get nearly every single video game icon imaginable.

And it honestly is amazing to see. I’m so glad the right people are in charge of this game.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

It just occured to me that if Sora made it to smash he would probably end up like how he was treated in world of final fantasy, where he speaks in Japanese but when the game is set to English he's just a mute, like Mewtwo and the heroes.

Alright! I feel 2B's chances has sparked up then in this case.

Sorry for the Sora fans though.

Damn first Travis, then Doom Slayer and now Sora...Whose next?

Wait what happened to Travis?

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Ive never seen anyone hate Sora more then Geno fans who are dead set on thinking he is "Compitition"

Makes me sad because there isnt wrong with having both characters but if it isnt Geno, its compitition to them

It's more that a lot of Geno fans consider him also a Square rep. It's that any Square rep is competition to Geno, not that any rep period is competition to Geno.

And as a Geno fan, I personally wouldn't mind seeing 2B or another Square Rep like Lara Croft as well, but I'd more prefer both.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It just occured to me that if Sora made it to smash he would probably end up like how he was treated in world of final fantasy, where he speaks in Japanese but when the game is set to English he's just a mute, like Mewtwo and the heroes.


Wait what happened to Travis?

Or he could just grunt like the Heroes do when the language is set to English

 

[Krankees]

I think Terry may have been the most expensive in man-hours, thanks to SNK answering "which of these 50 tracks can we use" with "yes".

Missed opportunity to use "OKAY!"

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Or he could just grunt like the Heroes do when the language is set to English

The Heroes were barely voiced depending on which one, but Sora's had 1 consistent VA meaning fans would notice the difference right away.


Also I just remembered Hero doesn't yell spell names if set to other languages but Sakurai still noted that tidbit in the presentation

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

It's more that a lot of Geno fans consider him also a Square rep. It's that any Square rep is competition to Geno, not that any rep period is competition to Geno.

And as a Geno fan, I personally wouldn't mind seeing 2B or another Square Rep like Lara Croft as well, but I'd more prefer both.

it just makes me sad and confuses me because I dont see pheonix wright fans called Ammy competition so idk why its different for those fans

 

[Hadokeyblade]

it just makes me sad and confuses me because I dont see pheonix wright fans called Ammy competition so idk why its different for those fans

That's not exactly a fair comparison considering that Capcom can just give their IP's away. lol

 

[Cosmic77]

To be fair I don’t see Sephiroth anywhere and Geno’s still nothing more (or less) than a Spirit. Unless either becomes DLC or a costume I wouldn’t hold my breath for Sora either way

context: they were also in the square seven. Wasn’t Crono from CT there too?

The Square 7 were Geno, Sora, Chrono, Sephiroth, Slime, Luminary, and Erdrick. I think Sakurai was orginally going to add Erdrick, but SE requested he use Luminary instead and suggested making Erdrick an alt.

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if this is the last of the SE content we get in Ultimate.

 

[frozolloyd]

Aren't like 90% of Smash trailer not obvious it's Smash if you get rid of the little animation at the beginning with the logo?

Nah, smash reveals in general are pretty obvious to pick out in most cases. Just going off ultimates trailers so far...
Inklings: The original bait and switch, back when we didn't think another smash game was being made.
Ridley: The fact Mario, megaman and samus were all in the trailer gives away it is a smash trailer.
Belmonts: Luigi being in a hypo-realistic castle with mummies and disembodied heads also is a semi big give away that that wasn't luigi's mansion 3.
King K rool: The montage of heroes and villains from 4 different Nintendo series only could ever be a smash reveal. Same with Banjo as well.
Isabelle: Another bait and switch for animal crossing coming to the switch.
Ken and fire cat: Literally Ken is shown right at the beginning fighting Little Mac. Pretty big give away.
Pirana plant: done in engine, so it is pretty obvious.
Joker: enough said, big bait and switch.
Hero: Link is fighting shadow Meta kight and shadow marth at the beginning makes it pretty obvious what is going on.
Terry: Smash letter is shown off immediatly and is a big part of that trailer.
Byleth: Seems like it would have been a bait and switch if this was the game awards or a direct.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The Square 7 were Geno, Sora, Chrono, Sephiroth, Slime, Luminary, and Erdrick. I think Sakurai was orginally going to add Erdrick, but SE requested he use Luminary instead and suggested making Erdrick an alt.

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if this is the last of the SE content we get in Ultimate.

Maybe that list only applies to the first pass? Maybe some could carry over to pass 2? Maybe pass 2 will have a totally new list?

 

[Guynamednelson]

but SE requested he use Luminary instead and suggested making Erdrick an alt.

Actually, Square's idea was Slime, and Sakurai wanted the heroes to be playable instead.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Feeling confident for a Master Chief reveal at this E3 now after seeing that interview.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Now that I think about it, Double Dragon is really slept on for Smash speculation. Franchise was absolutely massive back in the day, especially in the West, where it was a mainstay on the NES and became a massive multimedia empire for a few years, culminating in a Hollywood film.

I'm mostly sleeping on it because River City is WAY bigger in Japan, has way more games, and has way better games. And since RC is already deconfirmed, I don't rate DD's chances as very high.

Ken has a canon last name. Ryu doesn't. That's how you know more thought was put into Ken's character.

Ryu doesn't have a last name because he's an orphan and literally doesn't have one.

I actually don't think Dante will be the one to start it off, but it also can't be a super heavy hitter either

Why not? Isn't the whole point to get people to buy the pass?

Aren't like 90% of Smash trailer not obvious it's Smash if you get rid of the little animation at the beginning with the logo?

Well, that and the fact that a lot of them premier during a Smash Direct, which is also something of a giveaway.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I thought that the Vergeben Square enix list was character that SE used for leak bait, not really character that was considered. Sakurai said that he wanted Hero or Slime, he never mentionned having big talk about other SE characters.

 

[Krankees]

it just makes me sad and confuses me because I dont see pheonix wright fans called Ammy competition so idk why its different for those fans

I think Ammy has a good shot. Maybe even enough to beat Dante and Phoenix. But I would be sad since I support Phoenix.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I think that there are few “insiders” that really knows FP2 contents and Imran quote was that Nintendo try to get Sora for Smash 4 DLC as he won the ballot but Disney JP said no. But hey, that happened almost 5 years ago, things changed.

See Snake as an example, they tried to get Snake around earlier 2012 for Smash 4 and failed it. Afterwards, they tried again almost 4 years later for Ultimate and not only the got back Snake (and his universe), they algo got permission to include other Konami IPs like Castlevania and Bomberman.

So hopefully we will get Sora for FP2, he is probably the most requested character worldwide and Kingdom Hearts universe deserves to be in Smash.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I think that there are few “insiders” that really knows FP2 contents and Imran quote was that Nintendo try to get Sora for Smash 4 DLC as he won the ballot but Disney JP said no. But hey, that happened almost 5 years ago, things changed.

He didn’t imply it was for the Smash 4 ballot at all, lol.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So hopefully we will get Sora for FP2, he is probably the most requested character worldwide and Kingdom Hearts universe deserves to be in Smash.

Why do you think Sora is the most requested character worldwide? He's heavily requested for sure, but I don't think "most requested on the planet". How good does Sora do in fan polls?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Why do you think Sora is the most requested character worldwide? He's heavily requested for sure, but I don't think "most requested on the planet". How good does Sora do in fan polls?

Fan polls aren't exactly the best judge of what the fanbase wants as there's too many variables that screw with the results, how many people were involved, was it a write-in or a set of predetermined characters, where was it held as different places on the internet have different general wants as seen with Bayonetta being a huge request for Tumblr and NeoGAF's Smash fandoms yet being dismissed here and where the poll was distributed

 

[MasterOfKnees]

it just makes me sad and confuses me because I dont see pheonix wright fans called Ammy competition so idk why its different for those fans

They're not exactly wrong though, from everything we've seen so far it definitely seems that characters hailing from the same company compete with each other. Whether Phoenix Wright fans celebrated it or not, Resident Evil being deconfirmed absolutely helps his chances, and the same will be the case if others like Dante or Amaterasu bite the dust. It's not always pretty, but that's how it goes.

 

[Deleted member]

Good morning everyone.

So hopefully we will get Sora for FP2, he is probably the most requested character worldwide and Kingdom Hearts universe deserves to be in Smash.

Okay, I see where you're going here. But honestly, I kind of see Sora as a difficulty to obtain due to licensing rights between Disney.

And not only that, but it's also gonna result in the association phenomena. People are gonna clamor for non-vg characters now that Disney is on the table. It'll open such cans of worms.

 

[snowgolem]

even though I doubt it, anything important happen recently?

 

[Icedragonadam]

With what's Disney has been doing to the creativity of the entertainment industry with their monopoly and supporting the Chinese Government right now, please keep Disney away from Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

even though I doubt it, anything important happen recently?

Insider mentioned there were talks for Sora and Master Chief, depending on how you interpret it it doesn't look good for Sora

 

[Michael the Spikester]

2B is more well-known, but even Sakurai said Geno gets a lot of requests. I’d say he’s definitely heavily-demanded by a lot of people, within the thousands at least. I think Operation Starfall was able to get signatures on a letter or wishes on their website that reached the thousands.

Not arguing who would get in, 2B is just as likely if not more, but Geno still has lots of demand.

That I know he is heavily requested but not to the likes ofandas well as Sora.

I say he falls somewhere around the lines of Crash and Doom Slayer if anything.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

even though I doubt it, anything important happen recently?

Shanoa leaked as Challenger Pack 7 as only 7 people remember her, the source is my cat