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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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DMTN

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I personally doubt that there are many budget issues. Individual characters get much more attention than they got in Smash 4 (trailers, presentations, stage cameos, more remixes, spirits, unique classic routes). I also think that if the budget was a huge problem, they would have gone for more 1st party characters. Then again, Economy was my worst subject in school, so what do I know?
 

merchantofsalt

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Ken also has a wife and kid so... we don’t know squat about Ryu’s family
The main problem with Ryu is that, due to the nature of Street Fighter, he has no character arc. It's a little silly that he's been doing nothing but "walk around looking for stronger opponents" for over two decades. His backstory regarding the Satsui no Hadou is sort of at a permanent standstill. Other characters have jobs and families and more concrete objectives (however silly they may be), but not Ryu.
 

Sestetz

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The main problem with Ryu is that, due to the nature of Street Fighter, he has no character arc. It's a little silly that he's been doing nothing but "walk around looking for stronger opponents" for over two decades. His backstory regarding the Satsui no Hadou is sort of at a permanent standstill. Other characters have jobs and families and more concrete objectives (however silly they may be), but not Ryu.
He goes through the same story every game with fighting with the dark side of himself and all. I mean it's okay because Street Fighter has never necessarily been super bent on the story driving it. But at least let the dude canonically grow a beard
 
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Hydreigonfan01

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Former Game Informer Editor-In-Chief Imran Khan, who has a strong industry reputation and track record, said this about Sora in a recent Kinda Funny Podcast at about the 28:20 mark.
"Do you think Disney is keeping Sora from being in Smash?"
"Yep. Disney Japan, specifically."
Imran had been pretty upfront in saying that Nintendo approached Disney Japan about Sora in Smash, but was unsuccessful in acquiring the character.
So Sora got deconfirmed right after his Rate His Chances, and there was a massive argument there about whether Sora would be allowed from Disney and Nintendo due to the "No video-game characters" rule. Guess we found the answer.
 

Sestetz

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So Sora got deconfirmed right after his Rate His Chances, and there was a massive argument there about whether Sora would be allowed from Disney and Nintendo due to the "No video-game characters" rule. Guess we found the answer.
No offense to the fans of Kingdom Hearts, but Sora was definitely a character I didn't want in... So at least some people will be happy about this. Sad to the overwhelming majority that won't get him, assuming we take Disney Japan's word as fact here
 

TheCJBrine

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I find it weird that Disney said no to Sora in Smash, they seem easy to work with regarding some other videogame-related stuff and it’s not like they ever use Sora outside of the KH games and merch. Smash would’ve just given them more money and promotion, not hurting at all.

I don’t really care much personally, but that’s gotta suck for Sora fans. At least Nintendo was willing to try.

As a Geno fan, though, this actually worries me a bit, unless the pass would have two SE characters. If another character gets in over him, I’m sure they’ll be cool, though. Of course, we could get no SE characters...
 
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Folt

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Oh my God how many times do I have to tell you, Byleth was chosen before the game even released. Three Houses being a legit good game had ZERO impact on the decision. And you're comment "if anyone would know that a game isn't gonna be a flop, it's going to be the developers working on the game at that moment" is nonsense because so many developers who work games rarely think "This game is going flop." Todd Howard & Bethesda thought that Fallout 76 was going to be a massive success. Cliffy B thought that Lawbreakers wasn't going to flop. PlatinumGames believed that Wonderful 101 wasn't going to bomb. Everyone who makes a game have the confidence that it will not flop, if you don't then why are you even bothering to make it?

You're obsess with the newest hottest, good for you. But you need to understand how many people aren't gonna view it as a great thing. Look at Playstation All-Star Battle Royal, they got the newest Dante in that game before DmC even released, it's the newest hottest that was coming out that so many people had fate in, and it's a laughing stock of a game and character choice. You'll never know if putting in this brand new character that people haven't had time to fully experience would work out or not, Byleth is the less interesting character in Three Houses and didn't even make it that high in the FE Heroes poll. Having Byleth come out a year later would've been for the best because, just like Rex and ARMS, people had time to fully experience the game & characters and welcome the idea of these characters getting into Smash Bros. Here you have barely have time to get invested in the character and potentially could've blown up in your face in the long run. Look at Corrin, look at how many people start to dislike his inclusion abroad despite how unique his moveset is. Corrin was super fresh and new at the time he released and aged terribly. History could've repeat itself so easily, it's the biggest gamble you can do. There was a reason why people love Joker's reveal, he came from a game that people had time to experience and get to know.

Also we already had a brand new fresh character who's game was just about to come out on the Switch added to Smash Bros, THE LUMINARY!!! Dragon Quest XI S was just about to come out and the main character from that game was about be put as the default character in Smash Bros. You get to play Dragon Quest XI S for the first time on Switch and have that character be in Smash Bros, but I guess if the game came out a year ago on other system you're old as crap.
Yes. Byleth was chosen before his game released. So what? His game is also the latest in a franchise with proven hits, and the fact that they picked a character to develop before he even came out is a sign that they expected that Three Houses would do well. And they weren't exactly wrong, considering Three Houses adds another hit to the pile of Fire Emblem games.

And let's face it, there was no way they were going to have anyone but Byleth because of the way Three Houses is structured. Popularity and reception alone isn't everything when picking a character. The fact that both Corrin and Byleth still have fans prove that.

I'll also note that by 2019, Fates has already sold over 2.9 million units so I don't think Corrin aged as terribly as you think he did.

And yeah. Luminary is old. In fact, you may not even play as the Luminary if you use one of the alts, which can come from extremely old games.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Meanwhile I’m not worried because Neku’s chances went up with one of his competitors (Sora) out of the running

maybe also 2B if they can make her CERO compliant
 

Evil Trapezium

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Former Game Informer Editor-In-Chief Imran Khan, who has a strong industry reputation and track record, said this about Sora in a recent Kinda Funny Podcast at about the 28:20 mark.
"Do you think Disney is keeping Sora from being in Smash?"
"Yep. Disney Japan, specifically."
Imran had been pretty upfront in saying that Nintendo approached Disney Japan about Sora in Smash, but was unsuccessful in acquiring the character.
That's what Nintendo gets for building their park in Universal studios.

Oh well, at least now Crono has a chance now... If 2B isn't a strong contender.
 

BZL8

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I find it weird that Disney said no to Sora in Smash, they seem easy to work with regarding some other videogame-related stuff and it’s not like they ever use Sora outside of the KH games and merch. Smash would’ve just given them more money and promotion, not hurting at all.

I don’t really care much personally, but that’s gotta suck for Sora fans. At least Nintendo was willing to try.

As a Geno fan, though, this actually worries me a bit, unless the pass would have two SE characters. If another character gets in over him, I’m sure they’ll be cool, though. Of course, we could get no SE characters...
I don't think Disney JP is opposed at all to Sora in Smash. I think it is more Disney's licensing shenanigans that might have caused talks to fall through.

That's what Nintendo gets for building their park in Universal studios.

Oh well, at least now Crono has a chance now... If 2B isn't a strong contender.
I don't think Universal has anything to do with this. Again, I feel it is licensing problems that caused trouble.
 
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Hydreigonfan01

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I find it weird that Disney said no to Sora in Smash, they seem easy to work with regarding some other videogame-related stuff and it’s not like they ever use Sora outside of the KH games and merch. Smash would’ve just given them more money and promotion, not hurting at all.

I don’t really care much personally, but that’s gotta suck for Sora fans. At least Nintendo was willing to try.

As a Geno fan, though, this actually worries me a bit, unless the pass would have two SE characters. If another character gets in over him, I’m sure they’ll be cool, though. Of course, we could get no SE characters...
If anything this is a strength for Geno, less competition.
 

merchantofsalt

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I find it weird that Disney said no to Sora in Smash, they seem easy to work with regarding some other videogame-related stuff and it’s not like they ever use Sora outside of the KH games and merch. Smash would’ve just given them more money and promotion, not hurting at all.

I don’t really care much personally, but that’s gotta suck for Sora fans. At least Nintendo was willing to try.

As a Geno fan, though, this actually worries me a bit, unless the pass would have two SE characters. If another character gets in over him, I’m sure they’ll be cool, though. Of course, we could get no SE characters...
Square was really difficult with Cloud but willing to play ball with Hero. If I had to guess I would say Geno would be no problem. It would be a matter of Nintendo asking.
 

AceAttorney9000

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In my post in the Rate Their Chances thread, I abstained from rating Sora because, in short, not only was I not very familiar with the Kingdom Hearts series, I also had no idea what Disney owning the rights to Sora would mean for the character's chances... but since people kept posting about that supposed interview statement where Disney said they'd be willing to let Sora into Smash (or something along those lines, I'm only going off of other people's posts here), I didn't think Sora was completely out of the running.

... I guess that statement was false? It's weird too, since Disney and Nintendo seem friendly enough with each other to work on stuff like Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 and Disney Tsum Tsum Festival, so what's the issue with Sora? Did Tetsuya Nomura step in and veto the whole thing?
 

CapitaineCrash

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Former Game Informer Editor-In-Chief Imran Khan, who has a strong industry reputation and track record, said this about Sora in a recent Kinda Funny Podcast at about the 28:20 mark.
"Do you think Disney is keeping Sora from being in Smash?"
"Yep. Disney Japan, specifically."
Imran had been pretty upfront in saying that Nintendo approached Disney Japan about Sora in Smash, but was unsuccessful in acquiring the character.
So Nintendo did approach Microsoft for Master chief, I wonder if he will be playable or the conversation leads to nothing.
 

BZL8

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In my post in the Rate Their Chances thread, I abstained from rating Sora because, in short, not only was I not very familiar with the Kingdom Hearts series, I also had no idea what Disney owning the rights to Sora would mean for the character's chances... but since people kept posting about that supposed interview statement where Disney said they'd be willing to let Sora into Smash (or something along those lines, I'm only going off of other people's posts here), I didn't think Sora was completely out of the running.

... I guess that statement was false? It's weird too, since Disney and Nintendo seem friendly enough with each other to work on stuff like Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 and Disney Tsum Tsum Festival, so what's the issue with Sora? Did Tetsuya Nomura step in and veto the whole thing?
I think it is more licensing shenanigans regarding Sora that caused trouble. I am really confident that Disney JP and Square-Enix are open to the idea.

If how the Sora DLC was handled in World of Final Fantasy is anything to go by, a similar request by Disney Japan would most likely cause Nintendo or Sakurai to balk at the idea.

One cog in the massive machine that is Disney saying they'd be ok with Sora in Smash doesn't mean that much.
You can be open to something, but stuff can still fall through in talks when it comes to specifics.
 
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I.D.

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One cog in the massive machine that is Disney saying they'd be ok with Sora in Smash doesn't mean that much.
 

AceAttorney9000

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I think it is more licensing shenanigans regarding Sora that caused trouble. I am really confident that Disney JP and Square-Enix are open to the idea.

If how the Sora DLC was handled in World of Final Fantasy is anything to go by, a similar request by Disney Japan would most likely cause Nintendo or Sakurai to balk at the idea.
"Licensing shenanigans"... I'm guessing that means Disney content and characters got in the way?
 

Opossum

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One cog in the massive machine that is Disney saying they'd be ok with Sora in Smash doesn't mean that much.
This is ultimately what I've always felt. Unless that cog is Bob Iger himself, one person's approval, however important, is ultimately meaningless.
 

TheCJBrine

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If anything this is a strength for Geno, less competition.
I kinda see it that way as well, just it also feels like they may just decide on another “more-important” SE character.

Although, since Disney technically owns Sora despite Nomura making him and SE making the games, maybe this doesn’t matter...idk.
 

Eldrake

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Licensing was most likely the problem. I'm not sure how exactly (Disney characters? Limited time license meaning limited time DLC before it's taken down? Who knows what happened behind the scenes), but it's almost definitely that.
 

BZL8

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"Licensing shenanigans"... I'm guessing that means Disney content and characters got in the way?
You're talking about the same company that only allowed Square-Enix to let people download Sora in World of Final Fantasy for a limited time. I don't think it is Disney's own content that is getting in the way.
 

AceAttorney9000

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You're talking about the same company that only allowed Square-Enix to let people download Sora in World of Final Fantasy for a limited time. I don't think it is Disney's own content that is getting in the way.
... I didn't know that was how Sora as World of Final Fantasy DLC was handled.

Yeah, that's definitely a problem.
 

P.Kat

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So is it pretty much guaranteed to see someone from Sega again this time around, with 6 reps open? Question is who would be their choice, Bayonetta and Joker seemed like easy enough picks...
Sakura from Sakura Wars has a good chance.
Former Game Informer Editor-In-Chief Imran Khan, who has a strong industry reputation and track record, said this about Sora in a recent Kinda Funny Podcast at about the 28:20 mark.
"Do you think Disney is keeping Sora from being in Smash?"
"Yep. Disney Japan, specifically."
Imran had been pretty upfront in saying that Nintendo approached Disney Japan about Sora in Smash, but was unsuccessful in acquiring the character.
Wow... Just.... Whoa, can't lie this makes me sad. I kept my hype in check, but this still hurts a little... So this basically means that Sora is out of the race... This sucks.
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Hello hello everyone and what is today's speculation and discussion?
I find it weird that Disney said no to Sora in Smash, they seem easy to work with regarding some other videogame-related stuff and it’s not like they ever use Sora outside of the KH games and merch. Smash would’ve just given them more money and promotion, not hurting at all.

I don’t really care much personally, but that’s gotta suck for Sora fans. At least Nintendo was willing to try.

As a Geno fan, though, this actually worries me a bit, unless the pass would have two SE characters. If another character gets in over him, I’m sure they’ll be cool, though. Of course, we could get no SE characters...
Seems I've been missing out on something recent.

Last I checked I thought Disney was on board and overall the final word has to be from Sora's creator?
 

Michael the Spikester

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Ramen Tengoku

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oh boy, I can't wait for people to make nonsense theories about Byleth being a last minute replacement for Sora after negotiations fell though
 

BZL8

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Who is this guy?
Imran Khan, he was Game Informer's former editor-in-chief before he got laid off due to financial difficulties of GameStop (G.I.'s parent company). He is a highly reputable figure in the industry.
 
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Dr. Jojo Phantasma

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oh boy, I can't wait for people to make nonsense theories about Byleth being a last minute replacement for Sora after negotiations fell though
I still remember the one about how Byleth was meant to be the first character of pass 2, but got swapped with the intended FP5. :p
 

Sestetz

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Imran Khan, he was Game Informer's former editor-in-chief before he got laid off due to financial difficulties of GameStop (G.I.'s parent company). He is a highly reputable figure in the industry.
I'd like to see more of an explanation on why he thinks stuff got pushed around and such, some juicy tidbits that may or may not get him in trouble
 

Eldrake

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oh boy, I can't wait for people to make nonsense theories about Byleth being a last minute replacement for Sora after negotiations fell though
Oh no no no, he's a last second replacement for Kraid after the computer hosting his files fell through to the core of the planet on January 15 because Kraid was too heavy, so Sakurai had to spend three hours ripping assets from FE3H to quickly create a new fighter and a trailer to go with it. This theory is almost certainly what happened because I believe it with my heart.
 
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Michael the Spikester

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So if I may ask again what is this about Disney suddenly saying no to Sora? Last I checked again they were on boat with it and really the final word for his inclusion comes from his creator.
 

3BitSaurus

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I find it interesting that apparently the problem was specifically Disney Japan. This might mean it had nothing to do with "they NEED to put in the Disney characters with Sora" and more to do with regular licensing shenanigans. If it was the first one I think the problem would definitely have come from the american branch, since the Disney IPs involved in KH come from there.

At the very least, if this info disconfirms him, at the same time it could prove he is indeed possible for future installments without the Disney content, so that's one argument down against Sora in future Smash games.
 

wynn728

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Again, if your argument basically amounts to "Three Houses didn't flop, b-but it could've!" then it's a pretty **** argument.

I'm not going to entertain cynical hypotheticals lmao. The fake leaks that get posted here are enough Smash Bros. fanfiction to last a lifetime.
I'm not arguing on the hypothetical that Three Houses could've flopped, I'm saying basing your newcomer on a character that's still in development is a bad idea in general. It's a bad practice because it's solely adding a character just to market the game. This is DLC, we're being charged to promote a character so the game can sell better. It seem more like putting your business practice ahead of the consumer you're selling your product to. It's gonna rub people the wrong way and the more we're defending say "At least Three Houses was a great game so it deserves it despite being decided way in advance" just means that we'll continue to get crap like that. You think it'll be exciting to see a brand new game that never been revealed and announce that that character will be in Smash Bros immediately on the same day as the reveal? Oh what am I say, majority of Smash fans will bend over backwards once a character gets added in.
 

Droodle

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Watched the video, and yeah it's a serious hit to Sora's chances; but there is still enough doubt there.

For example, it's never mentioned whether these discussions occurred for Smash Ultimate or Smash 4. We know that discussions happened, but not exactly when. If it occurred for Smash 4 or FP 1, while that is still bad, it's not a complete "deconfirmation".

Within context, one of the other co-hosts still thinks both Chief and Sora are going to happen even after the "deconfirmation". So while Sora isn't looking likely (when has he ever looked likely); he isn't really deconfirmed.

That said, at least this kills the idea that Nintendo wouldn't want Sora in Smash.

On the other hand, ChiefCHADS where we at.

Might as well post my predictions for DLC:

1. Dante (Next week)
2. Crash Bandicoot (E3)
3. Lloyd/Yuri (E3)
4. Ryu Hayabusa/Gran/Adol/insert filler character(September direct)
5. Master Chief (Game Awards)
6. 1st party (E3)
 
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