Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Guynamednelson]

Um no more FE would make the community more angry. The End.

People would be more angry about any character. Geno fans should already know about all the complaints about a side character from 20 years ago.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Um no more FE would make the community more angry. The End.

Ok but you're misreading what she said. The End.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

... I honestly don't understand this. Why would Phoenix Wright just be a Mii Fighter costume?

Phoenix Wright as a character doesn't fit any of the Mii Fighter types. Most characters who are Brawler, Swordfighter, or Gunner at least make some sort of sense to be those types of costumes, but for Phoenix Wright, it wouldn't make sense for him to be any of those. He doesn't fight with hand-to-hand combat, he doesn't use a sword or a gun... Wright becoming a costume would feel very shoe-horned in.

Besides, if Dante is gonna be included, I'd sooner expect him to come with a couple Devil May Cry costumes, the returning Monster Hunter costumes, and even Sir Arthur from Ghosts 'n Goblins... unless with Dante they decide to go the "random grab bag" route like they did Banjo and Byleth, but I don't see why they'd do that.

I dunno I just suspect Dante is the more popular Capcom pick despite Phoenix's closer history to Nintendo. I just also assume given said history and popularity he'd at least make it as an Mii costume.

Still really pulling out for our favorite lawyer despite the competition he has.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I never expect any "realistic" prediction to be very realistic given how Sakurai loves to toss curveballs at us. Like how many people, before we knew what the DLC packs were thought Joker or Terry Bogard were possible?

It's why I fully expect we may get a couple of lesser predicted/niche/ "Impossible" choices in the DLC pack right next to a requested character or two. Just based on this kind of stuff.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I dunno I just suspect Dante is the more popular Capcom pick despite Phoenix's closer history to Nintendo. I just also assume given said history and popularity he'd at least make it as an Mii costume.

Still really pulling out for our favorite lawyer despite the competition he has.

That "Why don't we have both" image I posted before describes my feelings on the whole Dante vs. Phoenix Wright thing.

I don't think we're getting both characters in the same Pass (unless we specifically get a double dip of Capcom characters... which is possible, but I'm not holding my breath for Capcom on that)... but I do think Fighters Pass 2 will likely do well enough to warrant a Fighters Pass 3, and in the event that either Dante or Phoenix Wright makes it into Pass 2, I could see the other being in Pass 3.

 

[Knight Dude]

I really doubt that would be the case. A character is a character, you think people won't flip their **** over Waluigi or Bomberman because they were technically in the game before?

"Oh ****, new Smash character! I wonder what new character could ha- oh, it's just Rayman? Lame, I was perfectly satisfied with a PNG of him. Hard pass."

There's some logic to their argument though. A lot of people were disappointed in SFxTK for having nearly finished characters you had to pay for as DLC. While not nearly to the same extreme I think some people would end up feeling that way, at least for Assist Trophies. On the other hand, Injustice 2 has Black Manta as a stage hazard originally, only for him to eventually become a fully playable character. So it's happened within the fighting game space before, just not Smash.

Granted, I'm honestly more so agreeing with you. Chances are if someone's fully playable, people'll probably be happy with that. Most people don't care too much I don't think, so long as the character appeals to them.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Friendly reminder that Disney said they were ok with a new MVC and the next MVC would have Disney be ridiculously strict about **** to the point Capcom had no freedom with the Marvel characters and they weren't even allowed to show Marvel characters getting hit in trailers. Just because Disney said they'd be ok with Sora doesn't mean that makes them easy to work with

That was on Marvel, not Disney. Up until recently Disney’s been fairly hands off with Marvel besides the films. This is because Marvel’s douchebag CEO, Ike Perlmutter, is a large stockholder for Disney. One example of this is how the Disney logo is barely on any Marvel products, as opposed to Star Wars where it’s on the backs of toy boxes & what not.

All of the decisions to screw over the X-Men came from him. Luckily, Disney is slowly eroding power from him & giving it to Kevin Feige (head of the film division).

Also, you guys are really overrating how supposedly protective Disney is of Sora. Kingdom Hearts is not a priority IP for Disney, if it was we’d have TV shows/movies/theme parks. KH has largely remained as games with some manga & merchandise, Disney would just see Sora in Smash as an extension of that. If we were talking about Mickey, Spidey or Vader then yeah that’d be a different story. But they don’t care about KH *THAT* much.

If anything then Sora in Smash is a good marketing opportunity.

 

[Knight Dude]

I never expect any "realistic" prediction to be very realistic given how Sakurai loves to toss curveballs at us. Like how many people, before we knew what the DLC packs were thought Joker or Terry Bogard were possible?

It's why I fully expect we may get a couple of lesser predicted/niche/ "Impossible" choices in the DLC pack right next to a requested character or two. Just based on this kind of stuff.

Hey, if the character's cool, then I'm cool with it.

I remember people having discussions about fighting game characters being added to Smash before Terry was revealed. But that was really the only major times SNK was ever brought up, along side stuff like Tekken, MK, Darkstalkers ect. barring the rare Metal Slug fan.

He might not have been my first Fighting game choice, but Terry's easily my favorite of the DLC for Pass 1. So I'll gladly take more surprises if they end up being that good. And I don't doubt Sakurai and the devs could make at least 1 or 2 more characters extremely appealing in that way.

 

[Faso115]

Sora is wholly dependant on Sakurai wanting to include the disney characters.

If he doesn't, then Sora can happen but seriously watered down. If he does, then the floodgate will open and i don't really want to see legit arguments for Goku

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Sora is wholly dependant on Sakurai wanting to include the disney characters.

If he doesn't, then Sora can happen but seriously watered down. If he does, then the floodgate will open and i don't really want to see legit arguments for Goku

Doesn't count. While Kingdom Hearts might have non-gaming versions of characters he's still as a whole a video game character something that Goku isn't but delusional fans being delusional probably will make that argument anyways despite Goku never ever happening in Smash.

Sora with Donald and Goofy could still work. Instead have Kairi and Riku in his suppose Final Smash and remove the Mickey keychain.

 

[Dinoman96]

Yeah MVCI's failings were much more on Marvel Entertainment then Disney themselves.

Like the whole reason the Fantastic Four and X-Men got blacklisted from most Marvel ancillary media for while was because their CEO Ike Perlmutter is a notorious penny pinching asshole that was bitter over Fox having the film rights for those characters, he even tried replacing the X-Men with the Inhumans and look how that turned out.. That guy is basically the western equivalent of Koichi Sugiyama, both being old racist rotten beings that neither company can really get rid of easily.

 

[SKX31]

I really doubt that would be the case. A character is a character, you think people won't flip their **** over Waluigi or Bomberman because they were technically in the game before?

"Oh ****, new Smash character! I wonder what new character could ha- oh, it's just Rayman? Lame, I was perfectly satisfied with a PNG of him. Hard pass."

I could see those buying DLC expecting new characters being angry. Not a perfectly logical line of thinking given Sakurai's openly stated "Hey, only buy FP if you're 100 % confident you're okay with what you're getting." but people have a tendency to just go with incomplete info like a train because it happens to align with their thinking.

That said, I'm "Lets wait and see, we haven't even seen FP6 yet" on promotions. What Furukawa and Nintendo think of those are key because they provide the list for Sakurai to choose from. But we don't know if the marketing team's okay with promotions, or not / aiming to limit them because they'd not be "new content" in the strictest sense or any other reason.

By the way, FP1 was confirmed during the November Direct, and Joker was revealed a month after. So wouldn't be out of the ordinary if the FP2 wait was similarily long.

 

[Curious Villager]

... I honestly don't understand this. Why would Phoenix Wright just be a Mii Fighter costume?

Phoenix Wright as a character doesn't fit any of the Mii Fighter types. Most characters who are Brawler, Swordfighter, or Gunner at least make some sort of sense to be those types of costumes, but for Phoenix Wright, it wouldn't make sense for him to be any of those. He doesn't fight with hand-to-hand combat, he doesn't use a sword or a gun... Wright becoming a costume would feel very shoe-horned in.

Besides, if Dante is gonna be included, I'd sooner expect him to come with a couple Devil May Cry costumes, the returning Monster Hunter costumes, and even Sir Arthur from Ghosts 'n Goblins... unless with Dante they decide to go the "random grab bag" route like they did Banjo and Byleth, but I don't see why they'd do that.

Tbf I could see Sakurai being cheeky and make a costume for Mii gunner, Much like Cuphead with the finger pointing thing and shooting projectiles from there...

 

[TMNTSSB4]

To be fair, Mario is the flagship franchise. Zelda should have more reps than Fire Emblem. FE should have no more than 4 to 5 reps including Byleth.

I don’t think this really adds to any argument you might have considering Fire Emblem has thousands of characters Smash could add compared to Zelda characters (who are not Links or Zeldas). Yeah Zelda having more reps would be amazing and all, but to limit the amount of FE characters would be real stupid, like...DC rushing to make a Justice League movie levels of stupid

All of the decisions to screw over the X-Men came from him. Luckily, Disney is slowly eroding power from him & giving it to Kevin Feige (head of the film division).

All Hail Kevin Feige

Yeah MVCI's failings were much more on Marvel Entertainment then Disney themselves.

Like the whole reason the Fantastic Four and X-Men got blacklisted from most Marvel ancillary media for while was because their CEO Ike Perlmutter is a notorious penny pinching asshole that was bitter over Fox having the film rights for those characters, he even tried replacing the X-Men with the Inhumans and look how that turned out.. That guy is basically the western equivalent of Koichi Sugiyama, both being old racist rotten beings that neither company can really get rid of easily.

didn’t help that the Inhumans show was worked on by the same guy who did Iron Fist season 1...and he was also the reason for Black Panther and Black Widow not having movies sooner rather than later (tho T’Challa wasn’t really affected in a way)

 

[Schnee117]

Tbf I could see Sakurai being cheeky and make a costume for Mii gunner, Much like Cuphead with the finger pointing thing and shooting projectiles from there...

All them UMvC3 lasers

 

[Dukefire]

Honestly, what character would Nintendo and Sakurai show to kickstart Season 2? Of course more FE characters jokes and others aside.

Also, Dimitri and Hilda Spirits from the Legend of Zelda series has their franchise name included since FE Three Houses spirits arrived.

 

[Droodle]

My thoughts on Sora:

Disney was OK with putting Wreck it Ralph in Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed (I think that was in base game too). No they did not screw over Sega.

Wreck it Ralph is far more synonymous with Disney compared to Sora; so wouldn't they be less protective about Sora? Donald and Goofy aren't getting in, but they don't need to. In all the KH crossovers it's usually just Sora and Riku.

Sora has way more then enough moves in order to fit into Smash. Literally 90% of the KH3 DLC is solo Sora. KH also has enough original characters for 10-15 spirits rather easily.

I don't think he's happening, but I don't think Disney would be nearly half as greedy as some people here seem to suggest. Overall with things like Marvel Ultimate Alliance being Switch exclusive, Disney's relationship with Nintendo is pretty decent too.

 

[P.Kat]

If a Yooka Kaylee Mii costume does get in, I'd be nice if it came with this song.

Spoiler

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

Thank you for replying, but your animosity towards Sora hurts my soul. He is my #1 most wanted newcomer.

Well, you did ask...
I do regret it a little bit now, at least my choice of words. I was in a really negative headspace at the time that I posted, so when I logged in and saw that seemed to be the current discussion, I felt more inclined to say something critical than I normally do. Ordinarily I try to focus more on talking about what I like rather than what I don't like.
As I said, I don't have any animosity toward fans such as yourself, and if Sora makes the roster I'll be genuinely happy for you.
I'm just not interested in paying extra for characters I don't like or care about, for the reasons I stated.
That said, I could be convinced to buy a Kingdom Hearts challenger pack if the fighter, stage, and music turn out to be more interesting than I expect.

I was convinced to buy Joker, after all, and I don't think I had ever really seen or heard of him before that Smash reveal trailer.
Before that, I was initially really disappointed by Snake's Smash reveal at E3 2006, but during the wait for Brawl I ended up buying a copy of The Twin Snakes for GameCube and it became one of my favorite games.
Heck, as a kid I was initially really mad that Pikachu and Jigglypuff were in Smash 64 because I thought that Pokémon was a stupid fad, that the games were based on the TV series which I hated at the time, and I wanted Banjo and Kazooie instead. I ended up becoming obsessed with Pokémon Red within a year of first playing Smash Bros.

So, I've changed my mind before.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Honestly, what character would Nintendo and Sakurai show to kickstart Season 2? Of course more FE characters jokes and others aside.

Also, Dimitri and Hilda Spirits from the Legend of Zelda series has their franchise name included since FE Three Houses spirits arrived.

Crash or 2B

My thoughts on Sora:

Disney was OK with putting Wreck it Ralph in Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed (I think that was in base game too). No they did not screw over Sega.

Wreck it Ralph is far more synonymous with Disney compared to Sora; so wouldn't they be less protective about Sora? Donald and Goofy aren't getting in, but they don't need to. In all the KH crossovers it's usually just Sora and Riku.

Sora has way more then enough moves in order to fit into Smash. Literally 90% of the KH3 DLC is solo Sora. KH also has enough original characters for 10-15 spirits rather easily.

I don't think he's happening, but I don't think Disney would be nearly half as greedy as some people here seem to suggest. Overall with things like Marvel Ultimate Alliance being Switch exclusive, Disney's relationship with Nintendo is pretty decent too.

Sora without Disney characters seems...weird to me ( someone who doesn’t play KH)

 

[CroonerMike]

My thoughts on Sora:

Disney was OK with putting Wreck it Ralph in Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed (I think that was in base game too). No they did not screw over Sega.

Wreck it Ralph is far more synonymous with Disney compared to Sora; so wouldn't they be less protective about Sora? Donald and Goofy aren't getting in, but they don't need to. In all the KH crossovers it's usually just Sora and Riku.

Sora has way more then enough moves in order to fit into Smash. Literally 90% of the KH3 DLC is solo Sora. KH also has enough original characters for 10-15 spirits rather easily.

I don't think he's happening, but I don't think Disney would be nearly half as greedy as some people here seem to suggest. Overall with things like Marvel Ultimate Alliance being Switch exclusive, Disney's relationship with Nintendo is pretty decent too.

So...Wreck it Ralph for smash?

 

[3BitSaurus]

I could see those buying DLC expecting new characters being angry. Not a perfectly logical line of thinking given Sakurai's openly stated "Hey, only buy FP if you're 100 % confident you're okay with what you're getting." but people have a tendency to just go with incomplete info like a train because it happens to align with their thinking.

To be fair, as long as the character sold well (and I think a lot of unique Spirit/AT promotions could), then it really wouldn't matter if a few people get angry because it's not Master Chief or something.

I'm not confident in promotions myself, but I also don't think the "it wouldn't sell/be hype" argument is even remotely true.

 

[Dukefire]

For those that are wondering about the Spirits talk of either deconfirming or not, here is a twitter post that shows this information of possible evidence of spirits not being deconfirmed for fighter status.

Spoiler: Twitter post

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Honestly, what character would Nintendo and Sakurai show to kickstart Season 2? Of course more FE characters jokes and others aside.

Also, Dimitri and Hilda Spirits from the Legend of Zelda series has their franchise name included since FE Three Houses spirits arrived.

Crash for sure.

 

[Droodle]

To be fair, as long as the character sold well (and I think a lot of unique Spirit/AT promotions could), then it really wouldn't matter if a few people get angry because it's not Master Chief or something.

I'm not confident in promotions myself, but I also don't think the "it wouldn't sell/be hype" argument is even remotely true.

Pretty much my thoughts.

In the age of DLC, I doubt Spirits/ATs disconfirm; that said, I don't think promotions are happening.

I think Sakurai looks at all the content, Spirits/ATs/Costumes as a way to represent characters/series he didn't think were high enough priority to get added in; but were still big enough to represent in some way.

Now obviously he could go back to upgrade those characters; but knowing Sakurai, there are still plenty of series that deserve some "representation". That's why I think he'll continue adding new characters/games to the crossover rather then upgrading already represented characters.

There's plenty of fan-favorite not in Smash in any form, and also tons of "big" but not demanded series that could warrant some representation to easily make 20+ characters.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

By the way, FP1 was confirmed during the November Direct, and Joker was revealed a month after. So wouldn't be out of the ordinary if the FP2 wait was similarily long.

What I think too given Sakurai's statement of "Taking some time".

Earliest I can see is March/April but I wouldn't count on it. We're in for a long run since the gap between Joker and Hero/Banjo.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

My thoughts on Sora:

Disney was OK with putting Wreck it Ralph in Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed (I think that was in base game too). No they did not screw over Sega.

Wreck it Ralph is far more synonymous with Disney compared to Sora; so wouldn't they be less protective about Sora? Donald and Goofy aren't getting in, but they don't need to. In all the KH crossovers it's usually just Sora and Riku.

Sora has way more then enough moves in order to fit into Smash. Literally 90% of the KH3 DLC is solo Sora. KH also has enough original characters for 10-15 spirits rather easily.

I don't think he's happening, but I don't think Disney would be nearly half as greedy as some people here seem to suggest. Overall with things like Marvel Ultimate Alliance being Switch exclusive, Disney's relationship with Nintendo is pretty decent too.

Wasn't that part of a deal to let Sonic be in the movie? Either way I'm still pessimistic as Disney gave parents hell for putting Spiderman and the president of China on their children's graves

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I could see those buying DLC expecting new characters being angry. Not a perfectly logical line of thinking given Sakurai's openly stated "Hey, only buy FP if you're 100 % confident you're okay with what you're getting." but people have a tendency to just go with incomplete info like a train because it happens to align with their thinking.

That said, I'm "Lets wait and see, we haven't even seen FP6 yet" on promotions. What Furukawa and Nintendo think of those are key because they provide the list for Sakurai to choose from. But we don't know if the marketing team's okay with promotions, or not / aiming to limit them because they'd not be "new content" in the strictest sense or any other reason.

By the way, FP1 was confirmed during the November Direct, and Joker was revealed a month after. So wouldn't be out of the ordinary if the FP2 wait was similarily long.

With the “taking some time” in mind:
We could get a teaser next month but the character officially drops in like. May. For example.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

With the “taking some time” in mind:
We could get a teaser next month but the character officially drops in like. May. For example.

Be nice but honestly I'm really not holding my breath tbh...

 

[Pinguino21v]

"Slayer"
I may or may not know who that is.

Oh, you perfectly know who that is.

Except again next game not the same one.

Just consider a thing. Imagine Ultimate getting supported for 20 or 30 waves of DLC. There will be a time they will have to pick in the pool of spirits and AT, don't you think? Even if it is within "the same game"!
Well, we are several thinking it may very well happen in the second wave already, nothing limits them.

ATs are probably in an even tougher situation. Cause even if one got upgraded we'd just see people argue over who was chosen. Black Knight or Lyn? Oh boy more Fire Emblem talk, everyone's favorite topic. Waluigi? "I can't believe this meme character got in." Knuckles? "Why wasn't it Shadow?" and so on.

Expecting people will argue about their inclusion is not a good reason to refuse a character. See Byleth.

Can I get a run down on these Golden Sun rumors? Why is a new game likely now?

I believe it was some kind of copyright update which is the same thing that made people think Isaac was playable in base.

A new copyright with the English title of the game got registered in Japan a few months ago, while the English name was never used before. That plus the lack of news about what is currently doing Camelot Software, their developer.

 

[GoodGrief741]

There's some logic to their argument though. A lot of people were disappointed in SFxTK for having nearly finished characters you had to pay for as DLC. While not nearly to the same extreme I think some people would end up feeling that way, at least for Assist Trophies. On the other hand, Injustice 2 has Black Manta as a stage hazard originally, only for him to eventually become a fully playable character. So it's happened within the fighting game space before, just not Smash.

Granted, I'm honestly more so agreeing with you. Chances are if someone's fully playable, people'll probably be happy with that. Most people don't care too much I don't think, so long as the character appeals to them.

The Street Fighter X Tekken deal was because they were deliberately cutting finished content from the game to sell as DLC, not really the case here.

And honestly, yeah, people won't give a crap about whether the character was in Smash before if they like the character. I hardly think Sakurai takes into account what the reactions would be like anyway, considering our latest addition to the roster.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Just consider a thing. Imagine Ultimate betting supported for 20 or 30 waves of DLC. There will be a time they will have to pick in the pool of spirits and AT, don't you think? Even if it is within "the same game"!
Well, we are several thinking it may very well happen in the second wave already, nothing limits them.

Sakurai maybe a madman whose managed to achieve the impossible but I wouldn't count on 20 or 30 waves happening. Maybe Ultimate being ported with additional characters but that's it.

If anything and unlikely as it is we might get one more Season Pass or an Echo Pack consisting of 4 characters to round up to 90 (92).

 

[P.Kat]

Alright let’s do a game I guess.

give me your fighter pass 2, only rule is you can’t use any company that had a character from pass 1 (so no Sega, Square-Enix, Microsoft, SNK, or Nintendo characters)

Better late than never:
Amaterasu (Capcom)
Shantae (WayForward)
Ryu Hayabusa (Tecmo)
Saber (Type Moon)
Kat (Gravity Rush (Sony))
Rayman (Ubisoft)

Honestly, what character would Nintendo and Sakurai show to kickstart Season 2? Of course more FE characters jokes and others aside.

Also, Dimitri and Hilda Spirits from the Legend of Zelda series has their franchise name included since FE Three Houses spirits arrived.

I think showing off Sora would definitely make waves, he's easily considered a showstopper to most.

 

[Dukefire]

There are others that can be showstoppers as well, but we got a month or 2 before the official kickstart character(s) shows up.

 

[StarBot]

I don’t want more FE

But I also don’t more Zelda characters

I desperately just don’t want anymore reps of Nintendo popular / already heavily rep franchises and want to focus on less reped franchises / new things please

 

[Michael the Spikester]

There are others that can be showstoppers as well, but we got a month or 2 before the official kickstart character(s) shows up.

Make that 5 months if anything.

Would love an tease next month but I don't see it and the statement of "Taking some time". We're probably waiting up until E3.

 

[Knight Dude]

Expecting people will argue about their inclusion is not a good reason to refuse a character. See Byleth.

I don't think it'll be the main reason why an AT won't get upgraded, just that'll be the down-side to the issue if it ever happened. Worst comes to worst is that Sakurai sees their supporting role as enough to represent said character, and upgrading them wouldn't be worth it because they have their role in this game.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Sakurai maybe a madman whose managed to achieve the impossible but I wouldn't count on 20 or 30 waves happening. Maybe Ultimate being ported with additional characters but that's it.

If anything and unlikely as it is we might get one more Season Pass or an Echo Pack consisting of 4 characters to round up to 90 (92).

A little part of me thinks he could be aiming for Tobal 2's crown of 200 characters. Not likely tho

 

[Gamma Ray]

Make that 5 months if anything.

Would love an tease next month but I don't see it and the statement of "Taking some time". We're probably waiting up until E3.

I think that it "taking some time" likely means that it will be a while before the next character releases, not necessarily before they are revealed. Waiting until E3 for a reveal still feels way too far off to me, but we'll see.

 

[Dukefire]

We might get a teaser first before the reveal months later.