Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Sysreq]

You'd think it would be the people who actually played Three Houses that would be the most disappointed by the wasted potential in Byleth's moveset, but from my experience it's always the ones who never even played 3H that are the most vocal about the lack of "gimmicks" Byleth brings to the table. (They're also the ones that tend to push Edelgard for smash, even though that was always a pipe dream at best)

Am I like, the only person who thinks Byleth looks like they're gonna be really fun?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Am I like, the only person who thinks Byleth looks like they're gonna be really fun?

The only thing preventing me from thinking that is the statement that she's slow. That doesn't mesh with me.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I'm more excited about Balance changes. I'm hoping Meta Knight, Zelda, and Lucas get buffed.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Am I like, the only person who thinks Byleth looks like they're gonna be really fun?

I think so as well. I’ve been pretty vocal about my discontent with the character and over saturation of the series as a whole but I think the character offers an unique and interesting moveset that I think will appeal to a wide variety of fans.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Am I like, the only person who thinks Byleth looks like they're gonna be really fun?

They remind me of Brawl Ike, so I'm with you. They probably won't be competitive, but definitely fun.

 

[Idon]

Am I like, the only person who thinks Byleth looks like they're gonna be really fun?

Nah, I think most people are going to think they're fun characters. You'd be hard-pressed to find characters people think aren't fun, and the ones people don't think are fun always have their own fans that do despite the majority.

It's just kinda disappointed the whippity bits, the ones I really like Byleth in FE3H for, are kinda relegated to upwards inputs.
I mean come on, I'm rocking that Byleth profile pic, lol.

I'm more excited about Balance changes. I'm hoping Meta Knight, Zelda, and Lucas get buffed.

I just want Marth buffed to his former glory again...

 

[perfectchaos83]

It was Terry that was early.

I know Terry was early, But I singled out Banjo because I think he was released around 4PM rather than 6. But I was at work at the time, so I wasn't sure if he released directly after the presentation or not.

 

[Lamperouge]

Am I like, the only person who thinks Byleth looks like they're gonna be really fun?

I think they look fun, too.

The question remains if they'll actually be fun to use, though. I'll be incredibly disappointed if Byleth doesn't end up clicking with me since they were easily among my most wanted characters.

 

[slrigeigdew]

Wait Hat Kid has Control over Time? neat

Also yeah it would be cool if we had a character whose main thing was Time and stuff. I understand if they don't do it though because it's easy for it to be op, But i think there's alot of Flash that comes with Characters like this. having stuff like Freezing Projectiles in Place and then Starting time for maybe Combos or Mixups, or Freezing the Timer or Changing the time on the clock. Maybe even producing a Time clone too

Other Characters that would work would be Sakuya from Touhou, or of course, Shadow the Hedgehog

Oh yeah she can!

(Also I'd add Sakuya and Shadow if they had realistic chances.)

 

[Knight Dude]

Speaking of fighting styles, there's so many Martial Arts that could be taken into games like this, but rarely do main characters have styles like Capoeira or Tae-Kwon-Do, or Wing Chun.

We got Boxing
We got Wrasslin'
We got Karate(although more fantastical, obviously) . Ryu in later games especially embodies actual Karate more.

So it's not like there's no proper styles.

 

[Garteam]

I actually quite like Byleth's moveset, as it captures the basic gameplay of Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem's not really about rushing your opponents down with an OP character and outpacing them from there, it's about taking a group of disconnected soldiers and using strategy to emphasize the strengths and minimize the weaknesses of each character so they can function as a cohesive whole. Maybe Byleth's moveset does look a little mismatched, but that's kinda the point. Just as Fire Emblem isn't a game you can turn your brain off and blitzkrieg, playing Byleth means having to be conscious of all options on deck and picking the one that best fits the situation.

While it may suck to lose some of Byleth's personal iconography, he's really the only character that could make this type of moveset work. Outside of Three Houses, there's very few Fire Emblem characters that can canonically use the weapons in Byleth's moveset. Likewise, you couldn't really use the house leaders for this sort thing, as they all have weaknesses in one of the weapon types, making it weird to see them use that weapon. That really just leaves one option available, Byleth. It was really a now or never situation, assuming future Fire Emblems don't have the same weapon mechanics as Three Houses.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think it's a little ironic how people desperately wanted a FE character that didn't use a sword. Sakurai delivered, but because he split up Byleth's moveset between not one but four weapons, none of them got a chance to shine.

It is kinda sad when you think about it:

• The sword and the spear will see wide use.
• Assuming Byleth's Neutral Aerial is a copy and paste of Pit's, you'll only see the bow used for the occasional projectile. EDIT: Or fake out.
• The only time you will ever see that axe in competitive play is when the player is being "disrespectful".

Am I like, the only person who thinks Byleth looks like they're gonna be really fun?

I'll need to play him to give a verdict on that, but my negativity comes more from the feeling that the moveset doesn't represent the character as faithfully as it should.

The animations definitely do though.

Nah, I think most people are going to think they're fun characters. You'd be hard-pressed to find characters people think aren't fun, and the ones people don't think are fun always have their own fans that do.

Can confirm.
Source: Bowser Jr. players somehow exist.

I just want Marth buffed to his former glory again...

What is his deal in this game? There's no way he's a bad design; it worked in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, and really well in Super Smash Bros. Melee. Does it just not suit Super Smash Bros. Ultimate's mechanics?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Am I like, the only person who thinks Byleth looks like they're gonna be really fun?

Nah, I think he is gonna be a blast to play myself

 

[Sysreq]

I think they look fun, too.

The question remains if they'll actually be fun to use, though. I'll be incredibly disappointed if Byleth doesn't end up clicking with me since they were easily among my most wanted characters.

As long as I can hit people with Amyr and dunk on them with up B and dair, it's good enough for me.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I do have to admit that Byleth’s use of many weapons doesn’t look like it flows too well, given how each weapon only has just a few applications rather than a variety of uses. Still, I’ll have to practice them myself and/or wait until I see footage from someone who has put more practice in with them to really find out how well that works.

TBH, they seem like someone who is better suited for casual play due to the big disjoints, powerful ultra long range projectile, and super armored strong finisher (which isn’t an issue, but it does mean that it won’t align well with the interests of a lot of people here.) Competitively, I do wonder if they’ll have a strong juggling game due to their huge up air and up Smash, plus up special for if the opponent thinks they can jump away. They’ll probably struggle heavily with landing, though, since their only aerial with good range below them are down air and side special, which are probably punishable on shield (unless it turns out that down air is actually super good at shield breaking or something.)

 

[7NATOR]

Oh yeah she can!
View attachment 259807

(Also I'd add Sakuya and Shadow if they had realistic chances.)

The World!?, Is this a Jojo Reference?

It is kinda sad when you think about it:

• The sword and the spear will see wide use.
• Assuming Byleth's Neutral Aerial is a copy and paste of Pit's, you'll only see the bow used for the occasional projectile. EDIT: Or fake out.
• The only time you will ever see that axe in competitive play is when the player is being "disrespectful".

The Axe is Also a Down Smash and Down Air, and Pretty Strong ones at that

 

[Sysreq]

(unless it turns out that down air is actually super good at shield breaking or something.)

iirc during the presentation, Sakurai broke Marth's shield at like 50 or 60% shield with dair.

 

[Lamperouge]

The World!?, Is this a Jojo Reference?




The Axe is Also a Down Smash and Down Air, and Pretty Strong ones at that

The down smash and dair are also fairly slow.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Speaking of fighting styles, there's so many Martial Arts that could be taken into games like this, but rarely do main characters have styles like Capoeira or Tae-Kwon-Do, or Wing Chun.

We got Boxing
We got Wrasslin'
We got Karate(although more fantastical, obviously) . Ryu in later games especially embodies actual Karate more.

So it's not like there's no proper styles.

Give me a Bartitsu fighting style with Professor Layton

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The Axe is Also a Down Smash and Down Air, and Pretty Strong ones at that

Most of the competitive players immediately said they were way too slow to be useful.

(unless it turns out that down air is actually super good at shield breaking or something.)

It does, actually.

Competitively, I do wonder if they’ll have a strong juggling game due to their huge up air and up Smash, plus up special for if the opponent thinks they can jump away.

He could, but it also could be that he's too slow to take full advantage of these attacks against most characters.

 

[Knight Dude]

Give me a Bartitsu fighting style with Professor Layton

"Can YOU solve the puzzles of this Mix-Ups fam?" Professor Layton, Probably.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think Byleth's best case scenario is that he's really good, but not against top tiers. EDIT: Then he just gets owned.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

"Can YOU solve the puzzles of this Mix-Ups fam?" Professor Layton, Probably.

That was the best thing I have ever read

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Archer: Bowyer

Time traveler: Buzz Buzz

Who?

Instead of likes, I'll give you
View attachment 259804



Honestly, I dunno much other whipswords in games that have a reasonable chance of making it into Smash. If they had a shot of appearing, they probably don't need to worry about Byleth.

The biggest one I know is Ivy and she's solidly beaten out by Nightmare and/or Siegfried. Otherwise some minor ones I guess would be Fury from Darksiders 3 and... uhh... Miriam from Bloodstained...?

I didn't remember or know about Fury. She looks cool. There's also Ivy Valentine, but I don't really want her in Smash. You can find a lot on the whip sword tvtropes page. None of them have great chances, but Byleth still lowers their low chances.

I will gladly take a character like Geras, Tracer, Hat Kid, The Prince from Prince of Persia, etc. if it means we can get a character that can control time. Time manipulation is one of my favorite tropes in Fighting games.

Both Bayo and Shulk use time related powers in their moveset. But I guess if you want someone who's main gimmick was that, maybe the Prince of Persia. Though I dunno if it'd ever happen. I wouldn't mind. The Prince certainly had his impact on gaming, but just not to the level as some of the others we either already have, or talk about fairly often.

Cause Bayo's main thing is combos, and Shulk's is Stance changing.

An Idea is that under the Right conditons, you can do a move that will reset You and all opponents Positions, Status, and Damage, to whatever it was say 5 seconds ago. The Move would have to be All or Nothing in Risk though to avoid being overpowered

Maybe it would allow you to replensih Stocks if you reverse it far enough



Wait Hat Kid has Control over Time? neat

Also yeah it would be cool if we had a character whose main thing was Time and stuff. I understand if they don't do it though because it's easy for it to be op, But i think there's alot of Flash that comes with Characters like this. having stuff like Freezing Projectiles in Place and then Starting time for maybe Combos or Mixups, or Freezing the Timer or Changing the time on the clock. Maybe even producing a Time clone too

Other Characters that would work would be Sakuya from Touhou, or of course, Shadow the Hedgehog

I've talked about the Prince of Persia before.

The Prince from Prince of Persia using the daggertail. I would advocate for him more, but so much of his game is about crazy parkour-type stuff that mostly wouldn't apply in Smash, and his time-controlling abilities would be hardware intensive and have a fair chance of pissing opponents off. I mainly want him for the daggertail, but I want Smash fighters to be true to their games.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Who?

Took me a minute, but I think it's the character you meet at the start of Earthbound. His spirit battle is one where you fight a bunch of tiny Mr. Game & Watches.

 

[Goombaic]

Yeah, I know this is going to be a bit of an unpopular opinion around here, but man...

I personally think it would've been sick if Byleth's moveset rounded out the capabilities of the whip, his light-based magic, his time travel skills, and his martial arts ability instead of pulling out the 3 different weapons with admittadly standard attacks for their archetype.
Right now it sort of feels like a moveset wherein all the moves are taken from different characters and as a result he kinda looks clunky and lacks the flow of say, Ike or Marth. He just pulls 4 random weapons in and out of existence without any smooth transition or effect.

Also for someone who has TIME TRAVEL and a WHIP SWORD, I am deeply disappointed Byleth isn't as nearly as cool as Young Xehanort, for shame.

Yeah, I feel like using the leaders' relics was a bit misguided. It's not like Byleth would've been any less unique without them. Byleth with only the Sword of the Creator, some spells, divine pulse meter, and fun brawling moves would've worked perfectly fine.

If they really wanted to showcase how units in Three Houses can use any weapon, they should've went all out. Save the relics and divine pulse for special attacks. Throws could've used the spells, jab and tilts could've been the gauntlets, and smash attacks could´ve been their sword.

Idk, Byleth just doesn't click for me as they are right now.

 

[PSIGuy]

Byleth seems spread out way too thin. Using a 4 different weapons for only 2-4~ moves each isn't very striking. The most interesting movesets -in my opinion- take one key concept and do as much as they can with it. Like a video game level, you introduce an idea and then do everything you can with it. By the end of that level - or character - you'll have explored that concept to it's full potential.

Examples:
Marth is entirely about the arcs and pokes of his sword, focusing on that sweet spot. It's simple and intuitive, but difficult to master. His specials maintain this but give him tools to chase and break shields.
Simon/Richter use a whip with devastating range but narrow and predictable coverage. Maintaining the necessary sightlines and locking foes up with the simple nature of his projectiles (arcing axe, lingering holy water, returning cross) is what he's all about.

Byleth in comparison feels shoehorned. It's hard to describe them succinctly because there isn't a strong idea at their core. What can you do with an axe? Uh, swing them slowly? What can you do with a lance? Poke people from afar? And with a whip sword you can bring them near. They barely explore what it means to use those weapons. "Weaponmaster" doesn't tell us what they really do as a fighter, and they're not much of a master if they can barely use a weapon for more than 3 attacks. Ganondorf isn't a swordwielder just because he has it for all of 3 attacks; he's a dark-powered brawler, and Byleth comes off as the same. A Swordy with some other stuff. That novelty of "they don't just use a sword!" came first and it shows. Even Corrin's dragon gimmick showed up in a more meaningful way. Every other move had their weird dragon body parts, sometimes in tandem with their sword. It was a consistent, thematic link throughout their moveset that Byleth doesn't have.

tl;dr Byleth is bleh and tries too hard to justify their inclusion by focusing on a half-baked gimmick

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Byleth in comparison feels shoehorned. It's hard to describe them succinctly because there isn't a strong idea at their core.

I think Garteam was onto something when he said all of Byleth's attacks are situational in order to reflect how Fire Emblem is about recognizing which unit is going to help each situation the best, though I feel this design is better suited for three in one characters like the Pokémon Trainer. I could be wrong though, we'll see in a few days.

 

[Cosmic77]

I know it would've taken 4× longer, but I think Sakurai should've made an option to switch between each of the leader's relics. You could have a moveset that's 50% Byleth's sword and 50% whatever relic you chose. One weapon is the focus, but the other three aren't underutilized either.

 

[MisterMike]

Am I like, the only person who thinks Byleth looks like they're gonna be really fun?

Not at all. I think Byleth is going to be pretty cool to play as.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Byleth aint even out and yall are saying he doesnt look good? we havent even played him yet

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I was about to say, how can any of you say they aren’t good or the moveset sucks when we haven’t even had the chance to play them?

Jeez. Talk about critical and pessimistic.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I was about to say, how can any of you say they aren’t good or the moveset sucks when we haven’t even had the chance to play them?

Jeez. Talk about critical and pessimistic.

but byleth fire emblem baaaaaaaaad and i dont care if i havent played as him b4 he is bad

press like button blow please thanks

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Who?

https://www.mariowiki.com/Bowyer

https://earthbound.fandom.com/wiki/Buzz_Buzz

I think I took your list a bit too literally.

 

[Knight Dude]

but byleth fire emblem baaaaaaaaad and i dont care if i havent played as him b4 he is bad

press like button blow please thanks

Considering people like Idon seem to actually like FE, but is still critical of Byleth's potential, I would say it ain't just Byleth bad cause FE bad. Many people thought Banjo would be kind of mid-tier based off of his gameplay, and he's the most adored character of the pass.

I will agree however that we won't really know until we get our hands on the character. So I won't that much on the character's tech.

 

[Droodle]

I was about to say, how can any of you say they aren’t good or the moveset sucks when we haven’t even had the chance to play them?

Jeez. Talk about critical and pessimistic.

This whole situation reminds me of the time when Joker released and a common sentiment was that he's mid tier. Or the time when Hero released and everyone was clamoring for nerfs off the bat.

But at least those times those characters released before people started complaining. Besides the video was recorded in November, likely before the character had been 100% finalized. They've probably tweaked damage/frame data a bit since then.

At worst I think Byleth will be Banjo tier, but chances are he'll likely end up being better.

 

[PSIGuy]

You can give impressions of a character based on what you've seen. I don't think they're packing many surprises that'll change my mind (did we end up seeing their throws? maybe they'll incorporate the relics as well) but it's possible.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here are my thoughts:

• I don't know how fun he'll be 'till I play him.
• On paper, he looks like he's going to be awful in competitive play (though being good and being fun are two completely different things).
• I'm not sold on his implementation.
  • However, he is the first character in which I was attached to specific mechanical ideas before he was officially revealed so that could be a factor here.

 

[Lamperouge]

I was about to say, how can any of you say they aren’t good or the moveset sucks when we haven’t even had the chance to play them?

Jeez. Talk about critical and pessimistic.

Better to dive into his moveset with little hope for his viability than to expect greatness from him and experience crushing disappointment when he sucks.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

This whole situation reminds me of the time when Joker released and a common sentiment was that he's mid tier. Or the time when Hero released and everyone was clamoring for nerfs off the bat.

But at least those times those characters released before people started complaining. Besides the video was recorded in November, likely before the character had been 100% finalized. They've probably tweaked damage/frame data a bit since then.

At worst I think Byleth will be Banjo tier, but chances are he'll likely end up being better.

Here is an idea

Abolish tiers. They are useless