Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Goombaic]

Byleth should have gotten gauntlets. For being one of their proficiences and probably the most hilarious weapon in the game, it feels pretty bad seeing them being neglected. :/

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I know the chances of Nintendo letting any of their beloved characters take part in Mortal Kombat are slim to nil, but if they ever did let NRS use their IP, the only character I can envision the Big N being okay with giving and receiving Fatalities is Ridley.

Screw it, threw together a garbage concept for it.

 

[Knight Dude]

Personally, I really don't have a preference between Heihachi and Lloyd. Both would be one of those, "Cool. Now on to the next fighter," characters for me, so Sakurai can pick either and I wouldn't care.

I'm not sure if I expect another Namco character though. Seems like most people are using the "They haven't gotten another character yet/They deserve a reward for helping make the game" argument, and I don't think that's as indicative of a new character as people think it is. Byleth was once the last DLC fighter, meaning Namco would've still been stuck with only Pac-Man.

I can't speak for the Tales Of series. All I know is that it's held in high regard, just less so than Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. But Tekken's one of the biggest fighting game franchises on the whole. Really only being behind Mortal Kombat and Smash as far as sales go. Tekken games usually sell at least 1 million, with games like Tekken 3 selling more than 8 million and the recent Tekken 7 I think selling about 4 million currently. Sales aren't everything, but it'll give you an idea of the install base I think.

Whether Tekken was owned by Namco or not, it has it's own merit as a franchise. I will however admit bias on my part because Tekken 3 was the first video game I ever remembered playing. So to me, seeing someone like Jin Kazama or Heihachi Mishima in Smash would be insane. In the same way Sega kids felt about Sonic, or other PS1 kids felt about Cloud. Or how excited I was seeing Mega Man and Ridley be added.

Again, nothing to say Namco deserves another character just because they helped to make the game, just that these franchises, on their own merit deserves a shot. Much like MGS and Castlevania have their own worth despite both being Konami. Or Mega Man and Street Fighter for Capcom. And why so many people also want Phoenix, Jill, Ammy or Dante.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Byleth should have gotten gauntlets. For being one of their proficiences and probably the most hilarious weapon in the game, it feels pretty bad seeing them being neglected. :/

It is pretty fun watching Raphiel punch monsters in the face. Though in Smash, decking Ridley in the schnoz is just Tuesday.

Also it'd probably conflict with the whole "I have big disjoints. Eat your heart out Shulk." motif they were going for.

 

[FriesBK]

I think the characters in fighter pass 2 will be the following: Crash Bandicoot, Dante (Devil May Cry), Cinderace (Pokemon Sword & Pokemon Shield),
Travis Touchdown (No More Heroes), Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia), and KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)

 

[Idon]

Byleth should have gotten gauntlets. For being one of their proficiences and probably the most hilarious weapon in the game, it feels pretty bad seeing them being neglected. :/

Yeah, I know this is going to be a bit of an unpopular opinion around here, but man...

I personally think it would've been sick if Byleth's moveset rounded out the capabilities of the whip, his light-based magic, his time travel skills, and his martial arts ability instead of pulling out the 3 different weapons with admittadly standard attacks for their archetype.
Right now it sort of feels like a moveset wherein all the moves are taken from different characters and as a result he kinda looks clunky and lacks the flow of say, Ike or Marth. He just pulls 4 random weapons in and out of existence without any smooth transition or effect.

Also for someone who has TIME TRAVEL and a WHIP SWORD, I am deeply disappointed Byleth isn't as nearly as cool as Young Xehanort, for shame.

 

[Krankees]

I think the characters in fighter pass 2 will be the following: Crash Bandicoot, Dante (Devil May Cry), Cinderace (Pokemon Sword & Pokemon Shield),
Travis Touchdown (No More Heroes), Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia), and KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)

I know there's no rule saying a company can't have more than one rep in a pass, but two Bandai Namco reps doesn't exactly seem likely. It could happen though.

 

[RileyXY1]

I know there's no rule saying a company can't have more than one rep in a pass, but two Bandai Namco reps doesn't exactly seem likely.

And, I think that KOS-MOS herself is incredibly unlikely.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

The only thing that KOS-MOS has going for her right now is due to Xenosaga's developer being own by Nintendo. Harada's tweet's about an HD collection not happening was the nail in the coffin for KOS-MOS for being the second Bandai Namco rep. Heihachi, Nightmare, Loyd, and Yuri have the best chances for that.

 

[RileyXY1]

The only way KOS-MOS is getting in is if Sakurai personally wanted her.

 

[Knight Dude]

A mechanic that I've wanted to see implemented well in Smash is resource management. Robin does rely on resource management but his playstyle didn't click with me, he was too slow and clunky for my taste (seriously he's slower than Ganondorf). I was hoping that one of the DLC fighters would use resource management in an efficient way that opens a ton of different ways to decide your approach options.

The first three DLC fighters did have resource management but not in the way I wanted. Joker's meter is just "unga bunga me get stronger when you hit me" which is just another comeback mechanic like Lucario's aura and Little Mac's KO punch. Hero's MP gauge is what I wanted to see from the character, but it got butchered with the implementation of RNG in the command menu. Hero is a character I would've fallen in love with if it wasn't for this. Banjo only has one move that relies on resource management which is too simple for what I want.

Before Resident Evil was deconfirmed I really wanted to see someone like Leon that brings with him proper survival horror mechanics with limited ammo and items. The way I imagined it is that Leon would have weapons that require ammo to use. Leon would have gunpoweder to mix together in his item slot to make different kinds of ammo, because the gunpowder is limited it leads to the question of which type of weapon you wish to use more for the situation. There was also the possibility of implementing herbs that you can mix together to heal yourself. Think of it as something similair to the 4th survivor mode in RE2 where you play as Hunk with a predetermined amount of gunpowder and herbs and you have to rely on them to complete your mission.

But of course that dream is now dead. So the only character I have left that could bring the resource management I want is Steve from Minecraft. My idea for Steve is that he would start off weak but would get stronger as the match progresses since he would be crafting items that make him more durable and frightening. The question is how are the resources needed to craft are collected? I've seen suggestions where these items drop from the blocks you leave on the stage, I also saw other suggestions where they would drop out of the opponents you beat up instead. Using these resources you could choose to either craft a new item that can help you, or craft a better weapon that increases the amount of damage you can dish out, or craft better armor that makes you receive less damage. There would be so many possibilities and strategy you can do with these options which is kind of what I'm looking for.


We can talk about characters we want because we like their games and whatnot, but I don't see many people talk about what kind of mechanics and archetypes they want to see the most in Smash. I feel like this discussion can be useful in realizing the potential of many characters we never realized had it in them.

Well, if we ever get a character with proper air dashing(as opposed to Ryu/Ken's Air FADC), I'd like to think Mega Man X or Zero would be able to use it. There's also Star Force Mega Man who kind of has an air-dash type ability(in the context of his games, it's context sensitive, but applying it to a fighting game would make it function like the MMX and ZZX games.)

Seeing as we have characters with multiple mid-air jumps and floating, I think proper air-dashing would make for a cool mechanic. Maybe even give them the ability to use an Air Dash Attack, but have it be a high-risk, high-reward type of deal.

On top of that. Mega Man X styled wall jumping would be pretty unique, though maybe that'd be busted in certain stages. I'm also not sure if the Armors would be implemented or not, personally I think they'd be better as outfits, but making it an install that slowly builds overtime could be neat.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Byleth should have gotten gauntlets. For being one of their proficiences and probably the most hilarious weapon in the game, it feels pretty bad seeing them being neglected. :/

Yeah, I know this is going to be a bit of an unpopular opinion around here, but man...

I personally think it would've been sick if Byleth's moveset rounded out the capabilities of the whip, his light-based magic, his time travel skills, and his martial arts ability instead of pulling out the 3 different weapons with admittadly standard attacks for their archetype.
Right now it sort of feels like a moveset wherein all the moves are taken from different characters and as a result he kinda looks clunky and lacks the flow of say, Ike or Marth. He just pulls 4 random weapons in and out of existence without any smooth transition or effect.

Also for someone who has TIME TRAVEL and a WHIP SWORD, I am deeply disappointed Byleth isn't as nearly as cool as Young Xehanort, for shame.

Another thing that I'm surprised that they didn't used in Byleth's moveset is the battalion because it's one of the new mechanics of Three houses. I still think his moveset looks fun, but the fact that he use a bow and other weapons doesn't represent Three houses that well, you could give pretty much the same moveset to any other Fire emblem characters. I think the Battalion could have at least be his Final smash instead of Sothis.png appear and super powerful attack is used.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Another thing that I'm surprised that they didn't used in Byleth's moveset is the battalion because it's one of the new mechanics of Three houses. I still think his moveset looks fun, but the fact that he use a bow and other weapons doesn't represent Three houses that well, you could give pretty much the same moveset to any other Fire emblem characters. I think the Battalion could have at least be his Final smash instead of Sothis.png appear and super powerful attack is used.

technically speaking, I'm pretty sure Byleth actually can use any of the weapons they use in smash. I remember using a hand axe as Byleth's main projectile weapon through my first run of the game. The moveset actually fits pretty well in that regard. Most FE games don't let you use whatever weapon you want on one character, but Three Houses does. There just isn't any good reason you should.

The battalion would've been pretty cool, though.

 

[Idon]

Another thing that I'm surprised that they didn't used in Byleth's moveset is the battalion because it's one of the new mechanics of Three houses. I still think his moveset looks fun, but the fact that he use a bow and other weapons doesn't represent Three houses that well, you could give pretty much the same moveset to any other Fire emblem characters. I think the Battalion could have at least be his Final smash instead of Sothis.png appear and super powerful attack is used.

Nah, batallions would absolutely not work in the context of smash.

Summoning a surge of soldiers is a lot harder to do when they aren't already on-screen with you already. Most fighting games that have moves like that have them appear from the sides of the screen, which is an issue when in Smash, every stage is more or less a floating island. You also have to deal with the fact that resource wise, the Switch could absolutely not handle 8 byleths each of them summoning say 6-12 guys to rush at each other.

Also it's really... really not cool. King DDD had that final smash and while whacky, it certainly doesn't fit Byleth's aesthetic.

Side note, Byleth technically could use any weapon he wants. After all Three Houses is the first Fire Emblem with absolutely zero weapon restrictions outside of magic. My complaint is that it doesn't make for a very coherent or visually appealing moveset.

 

[perfectchaos83]

technically speaking, I'm pretty sure Byleth actually can use any of the weapons they use in smash. I remember using a hand axe as Byleth's main projectile weapon through my first run of the game. The moveset actually fits pretty well in that regard. Most FE games don't let you use whatever weapon you want on one character, but Three Houses does. There just isn't any good reason you should.

The battalion would've been pretty cool, though.

Every character can use any weapon depending on class.

 

[Lamperouge]

Yeah, a part of me really wishes that Byleth's whip sword and Divine Pulse shenanigans were explored further instead of him randomly pulling out weapons that don't seem to compliment each other well, but I'm still pretty happy that the house leaders are represented through his moveset.

I just really, really hope that he's fun to play even if he ends up being trash.

 

[Idon]

Yeah, a part of me really wishes that Byleth's whip sword and Divine Pulse shenanigans were explored further instead of him randomly pulling out weapons that don't seem to compliment each other well, but I'm still pretty happy that the house leaders are represented through his moveset.

I just really, really hope that he's fun to play even if he ends up being trash.

Yeah same. Hopefully Sakurai didn't go too hard on the "Distance Demon" theme.

A suspiciously large amount of Sakurai's introductions with moves was "Hey, so this move is kinda slow, but look at how far it reaches!" which isn't very fun when you're playing against a Joker who will never let you even touch the ground much less use your super cool axe banana slamma.

 

[7NATOR]

Yeah, I know this is going to be a bit of an unpopular opinion around here, but man...

I personally think it would've been sick if Byleth's moveset rounded out the capabilities of the whip, his light-based magic, his time travel skills, and his martial arts ability instead of pulling out the 3 different weapons with admittadly standard attacks for their archetype.
Right now it sort of feels like a moveset wherein all the moves are taken from different characters and as a result he kinda looks clunky and lacks the flow of say, Ike or Marth. He just pulls 4 random weapons in and out of existence without any smooth transition or effect.

Also for someone who has TIME TRAVEL and a WHIP SWORD, I am deeply disappointed Byleth isn't as nearly as cool as Young Xehanort, for shame.

On topic of The Time Travel Bit, Isn't Divine Pulse, The Time Traveling move one of Byleth's Main Mechanics. I saw it brought up in alot of Moveset Discussions for Byleth before they got in. I Wonder why it is not here. I guess it didn't fit the whole archetype for Byleth in Smash

For a Crack theory, I Had a theory that With Characters like Simon/Richter, Banjo, and now Byleth missing time based Moves, I have a theory that we might be getting a Character where Breaking Space and Time is their whole Spiel, Kind of Like Geras from MK11. Before you mention Bayonetta, her main thing is Combos, and Witch Time is a Simple Counter. I'm talking about using time in an offensive manner

That's just me though

 

[Jomosensual]

Did we ever find out what time Byleth is supposed to be released?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

byleth fire emblem bad

give likes please

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

On topic of The Time Travel Bit, Isn't Divine Pulse, The Time Traveling move one of Byleth's Main Mechanics. I saw it brought up in alot of Moveset Discussions for Byleth before they got in. I Wonder why it is not here. I guess it didn't fit the whole archetype for Byleth in Smash

For a Crack theory, I Had a theory that With Characters like Simon/Richter, Banjo, and now Byleth missing time based Moves, I have a theory that we might be getting a Character where Breaking Space and Time is their whole Spiel, Kind of Like Geras from MK11. Before you mention Bayonetta, her main thing is Combos, and Witch Time is a Simple Counter. I'm talking about using time in an offensive manner

That's just me though

Silver and Shadow tag team confirmed

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that Fighter Pass 2 will be partially third party and partially first party.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Yeah, I know this is going to be a bit of an unpopular opinion around here, but man...

I personally think it would've been sick if Byleth's moveset rounded out the capabilities of the whip, his light-based magic, his time travel skills, and his martial arts ability instead of pulling out the 3 different weapons with admittadly standard attacks for their archetype.
Right now it sort of feels like a moveset wherein all the moves are taken from different characters and as a result he kinda looks clunky and lacks the flow of say, Ike or Marth. He just pulls 4 random weapons in and out of existence without any smooth transition or effect.

Also for someone who has TIME TRAVEL and a WHIP SWORD, I am deeply disappointed Byleth isn't as nearly as cool as Young Xehanort, for shame.

What pisses me off is that other whipsword users are now less likely to get in Smash, so not only is Byleth themself disappointing, but they increase the odds of disappointment in the future.

 

[Knight Dude]

So what're the chances of Contra getting some content? Mii Costume, Spirits, maybe even Bill or Lance as a character?

 

[Lamperouge]

byleth fire emblem bad

give likes please

no, byleth fire emblem good

give likes please

Smash community:

 

[perfectchaos83]

Did we ever find out what time Byleth is supposed to be released?

Probably around 6PM pacific time. WHich is around the time for Joker, Hero and Banjo (THough, Banjo's was a bit earlier, I think)

 

[Guynamednelson]

Probably around 6PM pacific time. WHich is around the time for Joker, Hero and Banjo (THough, Banjo's was a bit earlier, I think)

It was Terry that was early.

 

[M@R!3]

On topic of The Time Travel Bit, Isn't Divine Pulse, The Time Traveling move one of Byleth's Main Mechanics. I saw it brought up in alot of Moveset Discussions for Byleth before they got in. I Wonder why it is not here. I guess it didn't fit the whole archetype for Byleth in Smash

For a Crack theory, I Had a theory that With Characters like Simon/Richter, Banjo, and now Byleth missing time based Moves, I have a theory that we might be getting a Character where Breaking Space and Time is their whole Spiel, Kind of Like Geras from MK11. Before you mention Bayonetta, her main thing is Combos, and Witch Time is a Simple Counter. I'm talking about using time in an offensive manner

That's just me though

It's time reversal right? Not sure how exactly that could be implemented in a fighter. If it were any other time power it would be pretty simple.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think that Fighter Pass 2 will be partially third party and partially first party.

Way I see it it would be skewed one of three ways:
1. Both third and first party have three characters each
2. 4 first party, 2 third party (the dream)
3. 4 third party, 2 first party (I see this happening easier)

 

[RileyXY1]

Way I see it it would be skewed one of three ways:
1. Both third and first party have three characters each
2. 4 first party, 2 third party (the dream)
3. 4 third party, 2 first party (I see this happening easier)

I can see the second option happening if they actually do have a reduced budget and manpower.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

There's a topic on the gamefaqs board that I'd like to answer, but I'd like to hear others' answers first.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/78360903#qp

"Specifics or how broadly you choose to interpret it are up to you.

Archer: Bowyer
Athlete: Ring Fit Trainer
Baby: Baby Head
Cowboy: Tin Star
Demon: Doom Demon
Ghost: Ghost Lieutenant Colonel Cole D. Walker
Ginger: Ginger from Ginger: Beyond the Crystal
Humanoid alien: Elma
Living sword: Zacian (way more living than the Honedge line. They are dead)
Pirate: Ruby Heart
Samurai: Yojimbo
Shapeshifter: Blob from Clayfighters
Sibling to someone on the existing roster: Andy Bogard
Time traveler: Buzz Buzz
Witch / Wizard: The Witch from Left 4 Dead

 

[Lamperouge]

Way I see it it would be skewed one of three ways:
1. Both third and first party have three characters each
2. 4 first party, 2 third party (the dream)
3. 4 third party, 2 first party (I see this happening easier)

Nah, we're getting five more third party characters and Lyn to promote the FE6/FE7 remakes that are totally coming soon.

 

[slrigeigdew]

You'd think it would be the people who actually played Three Houses that would be the most disappointed by the wasted potential in Byleth's moveset, but from my experience it's always the ones who never even played 3H that are the most vocal about the lack of "gimmicks" Byleth brings to the table. (They're also the ones that tend to push Edelgard for smash, even though that was always a pipe dream at best)

For a Crack theory, I Had a theory that With Characters like Simon/Richter, Banjo, and now Byleth missing time based Moves, I have a theory that we might be getting a Character where Breaking Space and Time is their whole Spiel, Kind of Like Geras from MK11. Before you mention Bayonetta, her main thing is Combos, and Witch Time is a Simple Counter. I'm talking about using time in an offensive manner

That's just me though

I will gladly take a character like Geras, Tracer, Hat Kid, The Prince from Prince of Persia, etc. if it means we can get a character that can control time. Time manipulation is one of my favorite tropes in Fighting games.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah same. Hopefully Sakurai didn't go too hard on the "Distance Demon" theme.

A suspiciously large amount of Sakurai's introductions with moves was "Hey, so this move is kinda slow, but look at how far it reaches!" which isn't very fun when you're playing against a Joker who will never let you even touch the ground much less use your super cool axe banana slamma.

Yeah. It seems like most of the competitive players think he's going to either be garbage or just meh. Gimmr is the only one who seemed to be worried about him for any reason.

I'm pretty cynical about this kinda thing, but usually slow = bad in Smash regardless of anything else so I don't have high hopes of Byleth being much higher than low tier.

 

[Knight Dude]

Both Bayo and Shulk use time related powers in their moveset. But I guess if you want someone who's main gimmick was that, maybe the Prince of Persia. Though I dunno if it'd ever happen. I wouldn't mind. The Prince certainly had his impact on gaming, but just not to the level as some of the others we either already have, or talk about fairly often.

Cause Bayo's main thing is combos, and Shulk's is Stance changing.

 

[Idon]

byleth fire emblem bad

give likes please

Instead of likes, I'll give you

What pisses me off is that other whipsword users are now less likely to get in Smash, so not only is Byleth themself disappointing, but they increase the odds of disappointment in the future.

Honestly, I dunno much other whipswords in games that have a reasonable chance of making it into Smash. If they had a shot of appearing, they probably don't need to worry about Byleth.

The biggest one I know is Ivy and she's solidly beaten out by Nightmare and/or Siegfried. Otherwise some minor ones I guess would be Fury from Darksiders 3 and... uhh... Miriam from Bloodstained...?

 

[Cosmic77]

I think it's a little ironic how people desperately wanted a FE character that didn't use a sword. Sakurai delivered, but because he split up Byleth's moveset between not one but four weapons, none of them got a chance to shine.

Living sword: Zacian (way more living than the Honedge line. They are dead)

Waited all day before someone finally named the Pokemon on the cover of Pokemon Sword.

 

[7NATOR]

It's time reversal right? Not sure how exactly that could be implemented in a fighter. If it were any other time power it would be pretty simple.

An Idea is that under the Right conditons, you can do a move that will reset You and all opponents Positions, Status, and Damage, to whatever it was say 5 seconds ago. The Move would have to be All or Nothing in Risk though to avoid being overpowered

Maybe it would allow you to replensih Stocks if you reverse it far enough

You'd think it would be the people who actually played Three Houses that would be the most disappointed by the wasted potential in Byleth's moveset, but from my experience it's always the ones who never even played 3H that are the most vocal about the lack of "gimmicks" Byleth brings to the table. (They're also the ones that tend to push Edelgard for smash, even though that was always a pipe dream at best)


I will gladly take a character like Geras, Tracer, Hat Kid, The Prince from Prince of Persia, etc. if it means we can get a character that can control time. Time manipulation is one of my favorite tropes in Fighting games.

Wait Hat Kid has Control over Time? neat

Also yeah it would be cool if we had a character whose main thing was Time and stuff. I understand if they don't do it though because it's easy for it to be op, But i think there's alot of Flash that comes with Characters like this. having stuff like Freezing Projectiles in Place and then Starting time for maybe Combos or Mixups, or Freezing the Timer or Changing the time on the clock. Maybe even producing a Time clone too

Other Characters that would work would be Sakuya from Touhou, or of course, Shadow the Hedgehog

 

[Schnee117]

Byleth using the signature weapons of the House Leaders is what really stops me from liking them. Their moveset isn't really built off of Byleth's own merit but instead takes from characters who would be more interesting as a dedicated axe/lance/bow user with their own little flairs and extras as opposed to, at best, four incredibly simple moves for their weapon of choice.

It sucks because Byleth could easily stand on their own with a moveset that sticks to their proficiencies and skillset but instead they either go severely under utilised or are plain nonexistant. I'm glad for Three Houses content, I love that game, but damn they really took the approach I absolutely didn't want with the character.

 

[Knight Dude]

Now that I think of it, whip swords aren't really a main character weapon are they? I'm not complaining too much since I feel like the Belmont's give us something with the Vampire Killer anyways.

Funny thing is there's so much one can do with swords anyways, despite the complaints. I know before Byleth was shown off, there were people who were ****ting on Dante cause he has Rebellion(the coolest looking sword in games). But really, not too many characters have moves like Prop Shredder. Or Aerial Rave, or Drive. Or that move where he spins on the sword like a pole.

I don't even think anyone else uses a Stinger like move for a dash attack. they usually swipe or Jump Slash. And then Corrin's gonna just do a Psycho Crusher.