Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Idon]

Dante can also work as a stance character with his styles

IMO, Dante doesn't really count as a stance fighter in the way people think.

A stance should very well change their entire moveset up in various ways. Dante retains his base moveset no matter which "stance" he's in, just gains a different set of tertiary moves for his secondary button.
Honestly, it'd be pretty lame if iconic moves like pop shredder or rainstorm were locked behind styles I had to switch through.

 

[Knight Dude]

If Ryu had actual super meter, these ****** wouldn't be ready for me starting every fight whiffing low kicks to build up that Shinku Hadoken.

IMO, Dante doesn't really count as a stance fighter in the way people think.

A stance should very well change their entire moveset up in various ways. Dante retains his base moveset no matter which stance he's in, just gains a different set of tertiary moves for his secondary button.
Honestly, it'd be pretty lame if iconic moves like pop shredder or rainstorm were locked behind styles I had to switch through.

Joker's Ghetto Rainstorm isn't enough, I need the real deal. Stinger would make a perfect dash attack. I think Prop Shredder would be a good Up Smash.

 

[P.Kat]

Mechanically, which genre's would you like to see crossover with Smash next? I'll gladly shill for more fighting game and platformer characters, but I'm curious as to how a puzzle game character could bring their mechanics into Smash, hopefully without feeling awkward. I think Hero, Pokemon Trainer and Robin do the whole RPG thing pretty well. We do have Dr. Mario, but he's obviously an off-shoot of an existing character.

And that's not even getting into character/franchise specific stuff either.

Action/Adventure, I'd want a stance change, or a character that has a bit of stage control like Ammy potentially would

I want more fighting game characters so we can have an actual super meter. Watch people ***** at how getting hit gives you a smidge of meter because Smash fans can't handle actual fighting game mechanics too

I honestly can't handle Ryu and Ken as well as I wanted which soured me toward fighting characters in Smash a bit, but after playing around with Terry, all that has been put aside. I wouldn't mind more fighting characters in Smash.

 

[SneakyLink]

Food for thought:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/21/doom...ew-chess-arcade-shooter-12095644/?ito=cbshare

This interview concerning Doom Eternal mentions Smash:
For reference I’ve included the relevant bit:

Spoiler

GC: What about the rumours of Doom Slayer being in Smash Bros.? [This was a couple of days before the Byleth announcement – GC] Do you think it could ever happen? MS: I don’t know. We’ve asked them. GC: You asked them? MS: Yeah. GC: Well, that’s how Solid Snake got in it. Would they discount it just because of the gore and violence though? MS: I dunno. You would honestly have to ask them. We’ve never been approached and said, ‘Hey can Doomguy be in Smash Bros.?’ But we’re open-minded if they wanna ask. But we hear it all the time [from fans]. Who would say no? [laughs] GC: But you did ask them? MS: We’ve had… I don’t even know who talked to who, but we’ve bantered with them. We have a great relationship with them through bringing Doom 2016 to Switch and that kind of stuff. So we have great people over there but it’s one of those things where it’s like, ‘Wouldn’t it be cool?’ But it’s never gone anywhere serious, so we’ll see.

With this, I think we have a potential deconfirm but I’ll let you all handle this one.

By the way I apologize if someone already posted this.

 

[Idon]

Food for thought:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/21/doom...ew-chess-arcade-shooter-12095644/?ito=cbshare

This interview concerning Doom Eternal mentions Smash:
For reference I’ve included the relevant bit:

Spoiler

GC: What about the rumours of Doom Slayer being in Smash Bros.? [This was a couple of days before the Byleth announcement – GC] Do you think it could ever happen? MS: I don’t know. We’ve asked them. GC: You asked them? MS: Yeah. GC: Well, that’s how Solid Snake got in it. Would they discount it just because of the gore and violence though? MS: I dunno. You would honestly have to ask them. We’ve never been approached and said, ‘Hey can Doomguy be in Smash Bros.?’ But we’re open-minded if they wanna ask. But we hear it all the time [from fans]. Who would say no? [laughs] GC: But you did ask them? MS: We’ve had… I don’t even know who talked to who, but we’ve bantered with them. We have a great relationship with them through bringing Doom 2016 to Switch and that kind of stuff. So we have great people over there but it’s one of those things where it’s like, ‘Wouldn’t it be cool?’ But it’s never gone anywhere serious, so we’ll see.

With this, I think we have a potential deconfirm but I’ll let you all handle this one.

By the way I apologize if someone already posted this.

Oof, yeah this seems way too genuine to be some sort of bait.

Well, at least we know that they're open to it any time in the future.

 

[N3ON]

Food for thought:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/21/doom...ew-chess-arcade-shooter-12095644/?ito=cbshare

This interview concerning Doom Eternal mentions Smash:
For reference I’ve included the relevant bit:

Spoiler

GC: What about the rumours of Doom Slayer being in Smash Bros.? [This was a couple of days before the Byleth announcement – GC] Do you think it could ever happen? MS: I don’t know. We’ve asked them. GC: You asked them? MS: Yeah. GC: Well, that’s how Solid Snake got in it. Would they discount it just because of the gore and violence though? MS: I dunno. You would honestly have to ask them. We’ve never been approached and said, ‘Hey can Doomguy be in Smash Bros.?’ But we’re open-minded if they wanna ask. But we hear it all the time [from fans]. Who would say no? [laughs] GC: But you did ask them? MS: We’ve had… I don’t even know who talked to who, but we’ve bantered with them. We have a great relationship with them through bringing Doom 2016 to Switch and that kind of stuff. So we have great people over there but it’s one of those things where it’s like, ‘Wouldn’t it be cool?’ But it’s never gone anywhere serious, so we’ll see.

With this, I think we have a potential deconfirm but I’ll let you all handle this one.

By the way I apologize if someone already posted this.

This sort of speaks to how people think Travis is in some special situation wherein the creator has actually asked for them to be included, but like I said a while back, it's probably that Suda, being Suda, is the only one who volunteers such information publicly, apropos of nothing.

I'm sure many devs ask for some Smash recognition. Case in point.

But yeah, seems like a pretty conclusive deconfirmation to me. Very sad.

 

[cmbsfm]

Food for thought:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/21/doom...ew-chess-arcade-shooter-12095644/?ito=cbshare

This interview concerning Doom Eternal mentions Smash:
For reference I’ve included the relevant bit:

Spoiler

GC: What about the rumours of Doom Slayer being in Smash Bros.? [This was a couple of days before the Byleth announcement – GC] Do you think it could ever happen? MS: I don’t know. We’ve asked them. GC: You asked them? MS: Yeah. GC: Well, that’s how Solid Snake got in it. Would they discount it just because of the gore and violence though? MS: I dunno. You would honestly have to ask them. We’ve never been approached and said, ‘Hey can Doomguy be in Smash Bros.?’ But we’re open-minded if they wanna ask. But we hear it all the time [from fans]. Who would say no? [laughs] GC: But you did ask them? MS: We’ve had… I don’t even know who talked to who, but we’ve bantered with them. We have a great relationship with them through bringing Doom 2016 to Switch and that kind of stuff. So we have great people over there but it’s one of those things where it’s like, ‘Wouldn’t it be cool?’ But it’s never gone anywhere serious, so we’ll see.

With this, I think we have a potential deconfirm but I’ll let you all handle this one.

By the way I apologize if someone already posted this.

He goes too much into depth with his response for this to be a Kirkhope situation. As a huge Doomslayer support, I think is a lethal blow to his chances.

I learned my lesson from the Smash 4 days when I thought there was a chance Kojima was trolling in his interview when he said Snake wasn't in Smash 4. Not gonna get my hopes up for this being a way to avoid NDA or whatever.

 

[P.Kat]

I mean it's not a no, but it's not a yes either. So until otherwise, Doom Slayer is just stuck in limbo, which maybe worse than just saying no.

 

[cosmicB]

Yep, because it's a niche franchise. Not that many people buy the games, because not that many people are interested. Only specialized consumers are. That's literally the definition of niche.

In what universe is 3 million niche? That's not household name levels, but it's not some unknown either.

You're also ignoring the ludicrous amount of money Fire Emblem Heroes makes. If $500 million after 2 years is niche, a lot of big companies wish they could pump out such "niche" games regularly.

 

[N3ON]

I mean it's not a no, but it's not a yes either. So until otherwise, Doom Slayer is just stuck in limbo, which maybe worse than just saying no.

"[The talks about Doom Slayer in Smash have] never gone anywhere serious" seems like a pretty big no to me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In what universe is 3 million niche? That's not household name levels, but it's not some unknown either.

You're also ignoring the ludicrous amount of money Fire Emblem Heroes makes. If $500 million after 2 years is niche, a lot of big companies wish they could pump out such "niche" games regularly.

The dude hasn't made a single post where he didn't cry about Byleth since their confirmation, why are you even bothering

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Food for thought:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/21/doom...ew-chess-arcade-shooter-12095644/?ito=cbshare

This interview concerning Doom Eternal mentions Smash:
For reference I’ve included the relevant bit:

Spoiler

GC: What about the rumours of Doom Slayer being in Smash Bros.? [This was a couple of days before the Byleth announcement – GC] Do you think it could ever happen? MS: I don’t know. We’ve asked them. GC: You asked them? MS: Yeah. GC: Well, that’s how Solid Snake got in it. Would they discount it just because of the gore and violence though? MS: I dunno. You would honestly have to ask them. We’ve never been approached and said, ‘Hey can Doomguy be in Smash Bros.?’ But we’re open-minded if they wanna ask. But we hear it all the time [from fans]. Who would say no? [laughs] GC: But you did ask them? MS: We’ve had… I don’t even know who talked to who, but we’ve bantered with them. We have a great relationship with them through bringing Doom 2016 to Switch and that kind of stuff. So we have great people over there but it’s one of those things where it’s like, ‘Wouldn’t it be cool?’ But it’s never gone anywhere serious, so we’ll see.

With this, I think we have a potential deconfirm but I’ll let you all handle this one.

By the way I apologize if someone already posted this.

Can't say any of this surprises me and I say this as a Doom Slayer supporter. Once this catches on, like possibly tomorrow then things are gonna get pretty heated especially here.

 

[cosmicB]

That interview was a couple of days before the Byleth announcement, meaning season 2 had long been finalized by then. It's also not some guy barely involved with the franchise after decades like Kirkhope, it's Stratton himself. That seems like a pretty definitive no unless he's lying.

 

[N3ON]

January has been a busy month for deconfirmations. And not the Vergeben/Sabi variety, real ones.

 

[Izanagi97]

The dude hasn't made a single post where he didn't cry about Byleth since their confirmation, why are you even bothering

Because he was wrong on the internet.

In all seriousness, I'm pretty sure that guy is a troll (or an idiot)

That interview was a couple of days before the Byleth announcement, meaning season 2 had long been finalized by then. It's also not some guy barely involved with the franchise after decades like Kirkhope, it's Stratton himself. That seems like a pretty definitive no unless he's lying.

I mean NDAs don't prevent one from straight up lying, but the interview is pretty damning (then again, I'm no expert on NDAs)

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I feel like I should post this just remind me people chances are there this aint another Kirkhope

https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/14/kojima-open-to-snake-returning-in-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u

Kirkhope was the only time someone lied about a Smash inclusion.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Mechanically, which genre's would you like to see crossover with Smash next? I'll gladly shill for more fighting game and platformer characters, but I'm curious as to how a puzzle game character could bring their mechanics into Smash, hopefully without feeling awkward. I think Hero, Pokemon Trainer and Robin do the whole RPG thing pretty well. We do have Dr. Mario, but he's obviously an off-shoot of an existing character.

And that's not even getting into character/franchise specific stuff either.

Rail Shooter
I know Star Fox already represents the genre... but at the same time it doesn't?
Back in Smash 64, characters were given movesets to be basic fighters, using no gimmicks at all. But as more smash games came, Sakurai has been attempting to make characters play more accordingly to their genres.
Which is why I would love a rail shooter character to be included TODAY.

Saki Amamiya from Sin & Punishment would represent this genre amazingly.
All I ask for is that his Neutral B spawns a big red crosshair (color depends on the player) in the middle of the screen, and that's the direction where he's firing bullets (Bayo style). Then with the joystick, you can move the crosshair around, and Saki's aim will fire accordingly.
Now obviously this means Saki can't move... with the joystick at least. While he's firing, joystick is used to move his aim around, and L+R are now used to move Saki left or right. Double tapping will make him roll.

Just take a look at the only 2D sidescrolling stage from the entire game, to get a hint of how it would translate into Smash.


FPS
Long overdue. But yeah, Doom should be the one to represent it. It just makes sense (to me).
Haven't thought much about his mechanics, but at least having B (left/right/up/down/neutral) cycle through his weapons to use for regular attacks.
He'd be ammo based, and everytime he hits an opponent from up close, he recharges ammo.
For recovery I can think of two things. 1) Rocket Launcher downwards. And 2) "Random teleport trap" like the ones you never see coming in the original Doom games.

Also, if Doom Slayer could plant one of those exploding barrels from out of nowhere, it'd be a huge huge plus.


Beat 'em Up
Nothing really that stands out, I guess. Smash itself lends itself as a sort of beat em up type of game (except with platforming) so there's nothing really special that this genre could bring to the table, other than just watch characters of one of my favorite game genres fight, of course.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh, to poke my head on the BOTW2 thing, the "via concept art" was something Sakurai said he made an exception for because of Pokemon.

It can happen again, but FE3Hhad a playable version out(well, seems like a demo or something he had? I'm not sure what the right term is) he could use for Byleth. Just like Corrin's game too. BOTW2 having concept art isn't enough. He needs to envision a character despite this. That can happen too, but it's pretty much been Pokemon only so it's better to have caution.

 

[P.Kat]

So that leaves Master Chief, and Tracer as the leads for FPS characters. I'm not sure how likely it'll be that we'll get another Microsoft character, by all means I personally think that we might get a Sony character next. As for Tracer well she has a chance but with the whole controversy with Bilzzard, I'm not sure about her either, and I wanted her to join Smash too.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh, to poke my head on the BOTW2 thing, the "via concept art" was something Sakurai said he made an exception for because of Pokemon.

It can happen again, but FE3Hhad a playable version out(well, seems like a demo or something he had? I'm not sure what the right term is) he could use for Byleth. Just like Corrin's game too. BOTW2 having concept art isn't enough. He needs to envision a character despite this. That can happen too, but it's pretty much been Pokemon only so it's better to have caution.

The last 8 months or so of dev time is usually polishing the end product so Sakurai gettin his hands on the unpolished version would add up

I feel like I should post this just remind me people chances are there this aint another Kirkhope

https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/14/kojima-open-to-snake-returning-in-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u

Kirkhope was the only time someone lied about a Smash inclusion.

I mean, Matt Mercer lied about not being approached for Smash 4 but I digress

 

[Animegamingnerd]

I mean, Matt Mercer lied about not being approached for Smash 4 but I digress

Admittedly I never heard about one.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So that leaves Master Chief, and Tracer as the leads for FPS characters. I'm not sure how likely it'll be that we'll get another Microsoft character, by all means I personally think that we might get a Sony character next. As for Tracer well she has a chance but with the whole controversy with Bilzzard, I'm not sure about her either, and I wanted her to join Smash too.

Wolfenstein cries in a corner.

 

[osby]

To be honest, I'm starting to get sceptical about FP Vol 2 adding new genres to the roster, after the first one didn't.

I don't think we won't get any, I just feel like it's not a priority in Nintendo's eyes.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Kirkhope didn't actually straight up deny Banjo being in. He juggled the answer to not break NDA. When a developer 100% says a character is not in, well it's 99.9% they're telling the truth.

And besides I doubted Doom Slayer because of his unpopularity in Japan, and that interview that was PUBLICLY mentioned, which would be grounds for an NDA break if he was in.

 

[N3ON]

Wolfenstein cries in a corner.

I suspect including a series that revolves around nazis might be a bridge too far for Nintendo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I suspect including a series that revolves around nazis might be a bridge too far for Nintendo.

Oh, I'm aware of why it's unlikely.

I was just joking about fun FPS reps being ignored, that's all.

 

[Icedragonadam]

This also more or less OFFICIALLY puts that mii costume rumor to rest now.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Kirkhope didn't actually straight up deny Banjo being in. He juggled the answer to not break NDA. When a developer 100% says a character is not in, well it's 99.9% they're telling the truth.

And besides I doubted Doom Slayer because of his unpopularity in Japan, and that interview that was PUBLICLY mentioned, which would be grounds for an NDA break if he was in.

Yeah lack of popularity in Japan is possibly gonna be possibly a death blow for a lot of characters that are popular here like Spyro, Scorpion, Master Chief etc.

 

[N3ON]

Oh, I'm aware of why it's unlikely.

I was just joking about fun FPS reps being ignored, that's all.

Fun FPS characters?

Say no more.

This also more or less OFFICIALLY puts that mii costume rumor to rest now.

Dibs not telling the Geno thread.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This also more or less OFFICIALLY puts that mii costume rumor to rest now.

Yep. It was in limbo before then, but now we got pretty much what we needed.

Too bad too. I hope the modder actually comes out, though it won't mean much if they don't bother to have an actual video of how they did it.

Fun FPS characters? Say no more.

Too bad the gif only works if quoted. XD Good choice.

I forget, isn't Fortnite an FPS? I think so? Jonesy is another one. We also have Gordon Freeman in general. Overall, there's quite a few FPS characters to look at.

 

[Knight Dude]

So that leaves Master Chief, and Tracer as the leads for FPS characters. I'm not sure how likely it'll be that we'll get another Microsoft character, by all means I personally think that we might get a Sony character next. As for Tracer well she has a chance but with the whole controversy with Bilzzard, I'm not sure about her either, and I wanted her to join Smash too.

Sony's not as known for playing nice, so I dunno about them getting a character in since they keep to themselves. I kind of doubt we'll see another Microsoft character, but I don't think it's impossible either. Cheif would be fine by me, but I'll mostly root for Fulgore.

 

[Guynamednelson]

isn't Fortnite an FPS?

Third person.

 

[perfectchaos83]

That answer was far too detailed to be an NDA dodge. While I never thought Doom was ever gonna happen, I think it's safe to say he's dead.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Food for thought:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/21/doom...ew-chess-arcade-shooter-12095644/?ito=cbshare

This interview concerning Doom Eternal mentions Smash:
For reference I’ve included the relevant bit:

Spoiler

GC: What about the rumours of Doom Slayer being in Smash Bros.? [This was a couple of days before the Byleth announcement – GC] Do you think it could ever happen? MS: I don’t know. We’ve asked them. GC: You asked them? MS: Yeah. GC: Well, that’s how Solid Snake got in it. Would they discount it just because of the gore and violence though? MS: I dunno. You would honestly have to ask them. We’ve never been approached and said, ‘Hey can Doomguy be in Smash Bros.?’ But we’re open-minded if they wanna ask. But we hear it all the time [from fans]. Who would say no? [laughs] GC: But you did ask them? MS: We’ve had… I don’t even know who talked to who, but we’ve bantered with them. We have a great relationship with them through bringing Doom 2016 to Switch and that kind of stuff. So we have great people over there but it’s one of those things where it’s like, ‘Wouldn’t it be cool?’ But it’s never gone anywhere serious, so we’ll see.

With this, I think we have a potential deconfirm but I’ll let you all handle this one.

By the way I apologize if someone already posted this.

Yeah, this is a killing blow as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Hinata]

Food for thought:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/21/doom...ew-chess-arcade-shooter-12095644/?ito=cbshare

This interview concerning Doom Eternal mentions Smash:
For reference I’ve included the relevant bit:

Spoiler

GC: What about the rumours of Doom Slayer being in Smash Bros.? [This was a couple of days before the Byleth announcement – GC] Do you think it could ever happen? MS: I don’t know. We’ve asked them. GC: You asked them? MS: Yeah. GC: Well, that’s how Solid Snake got in it. Would they discount it just because of the gore and violence though? MS: I dunno. You would honestly have to ask them. We’ve never been approached and said, ‘Hey can Doomguy be in Smash Bros.?’ But we’re open-minded if they wanna ask. But we hear it all the time [from fans]. Who would say no? [laughs] GC: But you did ask them? MS: We’ve had… I don’t even know who talked to who, but we’ve bantered with them. We have a great relationship with them through bringing Doom 2016 to Switch and that kind of stuff. So we have great people over there but it’s one of those things where it’s like, ‘Wouldn’t it be cool?’ But it’s never gone anywhere serious, so we’ll see.

With this, I think we have a potential deconfirm but I’ll let you all handle this one.

By the way I apologize if someone already posted this.

Damn, there have been a lot of deconfirmations this month.

 

[TwiceEXE]

I've been a vocal denier of the Cacomallow leak. I'm certain it was a hoax.

The comments about Doom make me even more certain as they clearly haven't had in depth talks about Doom in Smash, and that would include Mii costumes.

 

[MisterMike]

Food for thought:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/01/21/doom...ew-chess-arcade-shooter-12095644/?ito=cbshare

This interview concerning Doom Eternal mentions Smash:
For reference I’ve included the relevant bit:

Spoiler

GC: What about the rumours of Doom Slayer being in Smash Bros.? [This was a couple of days before the Byleth announcement – GC] Do you think it could ever happen? MS: I don’t know. We’ve asked them. GC: You asked them? MS: Yeah. GC: Well, that’s how Solid Snake got in it. Would they discount it just because of the gore and violence though? MS: I dunno. You would honestly have to ask them. We’ve never been approached and said, ‘Hey can Doomguy be in Smash Bros.?’ But we’re open-minded if they wanna ask. But we hear it all the time [from fans]. Who would say no? [laughs] GC: But you did ask them? MS: We’ve had… I don’t even know who talked to who, but we’ve bantered with them. We have a great relationship with them through bringing Doom 2016 to Switch and that kind of stuff. So we have great people over there but it’s one of those things where it’s like, ‘Wouldn’t it be cool?’ But it’s never gone anywhere serious, so we’ll see.

With this, I think we have a potential deconfirm but I’ll let you all handle this one.

By the way I apologize if someone already posted this.

Reposting from another comment.

Yeah, I'm not seeing how this disconfirms Doomguy really. A lot of this reply very much reads like something someone would say under an NDA. Notice how he doesn't definitively give a yes or no answer regarding Doomguy being in Smash or not? He says they've asked about it, and sort of implies that not much came of it, but he never outright says no. Grant Kirkhope said similar things with regards to Banjo in Smash, such as that they'll get in "When pigs fly." or telling people "I wouldn't hold your breath." about them getting in. Dismissive, yes, but not a clear yes or no answer.

Compare that to when Hidaki Itsuno was asked about Dante getting in Smash, where he definitively shot it down by stating that Dante should be on Nintendo consoles first. He gave what can be seen as a pretty definitive answer on the matter: Dante didn't have a game on Nintendo consoles at this time, so he's not getting in Smash just yet. There's also Suda outright disconfirming Travis Touchdown at the beginning of a livestream he was having.

 

[Hinata]

Reposting from another comment.

Denial: it's not just a river in Egypt.

 

[N3ON]

Reposting from another comment.

"[The talks about Doom Slayer in Smash have] never gone anywhere serious" seems like a pretty big no to me.

For your consideration.

 

[Knight Dude]

Yeah lack of popularity in Japan is possibly gonna be possibly a death blow for a lot of characters that are popular here like Spyro, Scorpion, Master Chief etc.

Spyro's Japanese releases really got hoe'd. I would like to think characters mostly popular in the west can still have a chance, but it's still probably a smaller chance.

At least Crash is pretty popular character in both the West and the East.