Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Animegamingnerd]

Honestly Spirit disconfirmations are the scariest part of this cycle.

They come without warning, third parties aren't safe, and it disconfirms for the current DLC pass.

It's rough.

Its pretty much like the third impact from End of Evangelion or the Snap from Infinity War, but stretch out for at most 2 years.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

Most third party suggestions are bad/cringe anyway, so I wouldn't mind watching some of them get shot down.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Honestly Spirit disconfirmations are the scariest part of this cycle.

They come without warning, third parties aren't safe, and it disconfirms for the current DLC pass.

It's rough.

It keeps things intresting, if they're a spirit they weren't gonna be a character anyway, I'll take that consolation prize.

Still it is scary, I want to see someone edit Sakurai over a slasher movie monster and have each kill be a spirit event.

Dread it, run it, the Kingdom Hearts/DMC/Ace Attorney/Crash/Doom/Halo/Mortal Kombat/Half Life/No More Heroes/Bravely/BOTW2 event spirits arrives all the same.

getting a Mortal Kombat spirit would be awesome, Japan has total disintrest in the series so its the best I could hope for it.

 

[TheCJBrine]

If you only knew how easy it really is

Have you done it before? To be fair, I haven’t myself, although I did sound a bit “robotic” when trying to rehearse something I wanted to say/record, and from other stuff I remember watching/seeing/experiencing, people typically give away when they’re lying or faking something even if they didn’t mean to because of how our minds work, and when acting, likely won’t copy their previous movements and vocal tones so perfectly that it’s like their brain is a time machine. If PapaGenos is that much of a master at acting, he should get some acting jobs instead of relying on YouTube and whatever.

 

[Deleted member]

Dread it, run it, the Kingdom Hearts/DMC/Ace Attorney/Crash/Doom/Halo/Mortal Kombat/Half Life/No More Heroes/Bravely/BOTW2 event spirits arrives all the same.

Spirit events are the new deconfirmers so much that Nintendo is abusing their power a bit too much. Or they couldn't negotiate well with the sources so...

 

[P.Kat]

Honestly Spirit disconfirmations are the scariest part of this cycle.

They come without warning, third parties aren't safe, and it disconfirms for the current DLC pass.

It's rough.

Between Spirits, and Mii costumes we're caught between a rock and a hard place. Never felt such dread since the Assist Trophy Massacre of 2018, and who could forget the Spirit Harvest of 2019.

 

[Deleted member]

Most third party suggestions are bad/cringe anyway, so I wouldn't mind watching some of them get shot down.

The only thing cringe here is that opinion.

 

[N3ON]

Spirit events are the new deconfirmers so much that Nintendo is abusing their power a bit too much. Or they couldn't negotiate well with the sources so...

You've lost me on how this is an abuse of power.

 

[Icewolff92]

Have you done it before? To be fair, I haven’t myself, although I did sound a bit “robotic” when trying to rehearse something I wanted to say/record, and from other stuff I remember watching/seeing/experiencing, people typically give away when they’re lying or faking something even if they didn’t mean to because of how our minds work, and when acting, likely won’t copy their previous movements and vocal tones so perfectly that it’s like their brain is a time machine.

I have done it plenty of time myself yes...

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Most third party suggestions are bad/cringe anyway, so I wouldn't mind watching some of them get shot down.

What third parties, in your opinion, are good then?

I'm genuinely curious.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

The only thing cringe here is that opinion.

I hope Doom gets a Spirit event. I bet it will, actually.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You're splitting hairs.

No. You are making an illogical statement.

Yes it is. Three Houses hasn't even sold 3 million copies.

Franchise is massive as a seller. Sorry, but that doesn't matter. They weren't chosen cause of sales.

They all do. I don't care which ones, really. They're all interchangeable to me.

I mean, if you have no clue how they work, then that makes sense, sure.

But only 4 characters are remotely similar, and only one is the base. And Roy is just as different as Ganondorf is at this point. So again, only two characters are actual clones anymore(Echoes specifically) and have a reason to be cut with that. Not that they should be, but they're the only ones who aren't unique at all. I mean, if we should remove all non-unique ones, that's fair.

We can have a couple. Fire Emblem is niche, but still big and important. But eight is just so ridiculously overkill.
And I do (except for Ganon, who has been thoroughly decloned at this point), so you can't say I'm not consistent.

Fire Emblem isn't niche, but is big and important. Niche games aren't one of the top-selling series and vastly well known to begin with. It stopped being niche since Awakening.

Ganondorf(Ganon isn't even playable, sadly so) is a fair point. I'll give you that. But Young Link and Toon Link are also very different from Link, just as much as Ganondorf is. Well, then it goes the other way. None of them could be reduced to spirits. Young Link and Toon Link are still clone characters, btw.

You want clones cut or not? There's no reason to play favorites with them either. But they're free dessert, so cutting them is entirely pointless, so I don't see a good reason to cut any character in the game. I see fair reasons to not be happy. But I won't pretend being entitled is magically a good thing. If only because it's naturally associated with being spoiled, which is really what it is. Thinking you deserve something. You don't "deserve" characters. You deserve stuff like food, clothes, and a house over your head. You deserved to be treated with respect. Yeah, that's kind of it. I'll say again, entitlement only goes so far, and when you act like entitlement applies to entertainment, it only shows acting spoiled. You could say it's a very childish view of how the world works.

 

[KarneraMythos]

I have a guess as to what to look out for as far as potential E3 reveals go. Character speculation became a game of Musical Chairs: The songs are of discussions, and the last one sitting might just plunge into a basement. Of course, each character has their own point(s) of justification(s). These are just my opinions, and you're more than welcome to disagree.

Most Likely includes the following:

1. Doomguy – Pretty much the most discussed potential newcomer in all of Smash speculation, just slightly above Ryu Hayabusa. From his Switch port to the newly outfitted sequel, the Space Mariner is in a great spot right now, with a tremendous amount of buzz. Even if you don't believe in his chances, he has fandom loyalty (at least for Smash overlap). Not only does he continue to trample over Hell and back in his own games, but he refuses to stay dead for speculation. Be sure to hear more of him until DLC support finally stops (or he's finally revealed in some form).
   
   
2. Ryu Hayabusa – Whether you believe leakers or insiders is a matter of opinion, and to what degree of their legitimacy falls squarely on their records. We continue to reheat the same old soup regarding these, but it's fair to mention that we're lacking in a fully playable Koei Tecmo rep. He's also one of the most talked-about characters to this day, and a retro-rep that is yet to grace the ivory gates of Ultimate. If you're a vivid supporter of the classical NES-era ninja, your chances are looking pretty decent, even if he doesn't end up being the next-next fighter.
   
   
3. Crash Bandicoot – The third most-talked-about name in the speculation cycle, and the only Activision property with a favorable outlook despite what went down in the last several months regarding Blizzard. Outside of Banjo & Kazooie, Crash is probably the safest bet for a Fighter of his archetype to set foot in Smash some day. He has that mascot rivalry history ingrained in the minds of many, his franchise set out to other seas, and he's been in his own share of leaked lists that all turned out fake to some degree. Very likely, but not a hard lock by any means.

Somewhat Likely includes the following:

1. Dante – In ways a counterpart to Doomguy, but of the same flock. The two of these characters are demon-slaying, gun-wielding, sword-bearing heroes with the Inferno being nothing more than a park stroll for them at this point. However, one of them is an eccentric party-animal to the other's loose cannon attitude. So why Dante? He's actually been a subject of speculation for over a year. He's a crossover icon with respectable appeal worldwide, whose connection to Bayonetta being alluded by Kamiya. Really, it feels like a matter of "When?"
   
   
2. Travis Touchdown – We finally dip into choices that are seldom mentioned in leaks, starting with Travis. Suda51 currently has no place in Smash, but has been around for a while. As far as No More Heroes is concerned, we've heard about Travis since the Brawl days. He incites the same fascination from the fandom that Dante does, appealing to the West with his cocky attitude, anti-heroism, cool looks, and seniority in Nintendo's second-party library. As far as guest characters go, Travis has endured years of discussion for every new Smash game since Brawl.
   
   
3. YoRHa No.2 Type B – Discussions pertaining to Dragon Quest and Hero largely overshadowed possibilities with Bravely Default and Sora (though some consider him to be Disney's properly fully). 2B took a rise toward crossover-dom in the recent years, having appearances in some of Square's major games, as well as a guest appearance in Soul Calibur VI. In some ways, she has become the "KOS-MOS/Morrigan" of this generation, and of the Square company in general. CERO is not to be overestimated, despite what some people would have you believe otherwise.

Very Unlikely* includes the following:

1. Hakurei Reimu – Pretty much THE quintessential Eastern Indie Icon, and a genre-buster of the SHMUP class. She's been around since the 90's, continues to exist through her series and vice versa from just one developer, inspiring other content creators to produce works set within the Touhou franchise. The amount of fan works you could find for this ongoing trademark is absolutely phenomenal. Perhaps the greatest of all is her rise in the gaming community over the years, with ZUN supporting the idea of Touhou in Smash. Regardless, she still has a lot of competition.
   
   
2. Arle Nadja – This isn't necessarily about recent talks, but people will confuse it for when discussions blew up for Dante as well. She's another character with a strong significance in gaming, particularly in the puzzle-based genre, and she's a staple in SEGA's library from days of yore. In fact, a couple of Puyo Puyo games have a competitive presence in Japan! It's also probably the most well-known example of its kind to feature actual characters, so to deem it low on the Smash radar ain't entirely accurate. Not expecting her either, but don't go sleeping on her chances.
   
   
3. Rex & Pyra – The absolute lowest on this list, for a few good reasons. First, let's state the positives: Sakurai lamented not being able to include him in the base roster. He was too late for it as well as DLC, so a Mii Outfit in his likeness was made to compensate. Thus, we can assume that this Pass provides Rex a second chance. That being said, Sakurai is very stubborn when it comes to character stipulations. The Spirits and his Mii Outfit might be deemed "good enough" in his eyes. Nothing outside of Nintendo strong-arming him can save Rex's overall chances in Volume 2.

* = Note: Anything "below" Very Unlikely implies "Not At All", at least for E3. Also note that it could turn out we get none of these characters. These are potential guesses, not locks.

 

[Icewolff92]

Have you done it before? To be fair, I haven’t myself, although I did sound a bit “robotic” when trying to rehearse something I wanted to say/record, and from other stuff I remember watching/seeing/experiencing, people typically give away when they’re lying or faking something even if they didn’t mean to because of how our minds work, and when acting, likely won’t copy their previous movements and vocal tones so perfectly that it’s like their brain is a time machine. If PapaGenos is that much of a master at acting, he should get some acting jobs instead of relying on YouTube and whatever.

Plus, look back at the qoute from DaybreakHorizon I sent you a couple of posts back

 

[Schnee117]

The only thing cringe here is that opinion.

View attachment 259144

Lego Yoda in da thread

Who he gonna get with his Honda Civic

 

[TheCJBrine]

I have done it plenty of time myself yes...

To the point where you watched both recordings, and if you were someone analyzing them, it would just look like the exact same video, from every bit of your face to your gestures, voice, and sounds aside from your voice?

Plus, look back at the qoute from DaybreakHorizon I sent you a couple of posts back

I saw it. If PapaGenos faked it, that’d still make sense, if he wanted to go along with it for a while, and he said he’s still in the “too much FE” camp as well, but he doesn’t seem to be a whining manchild about it.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

What third parties, in your opinion, are good then?

I'm genuinely curious.

Ummmmmmmmm...

Klonoa, NiGHTS, Kingdom Hearts. Rayman? Maybe Puyo Puyo? Maybe Dark Souls?

Basically, any series that blends well with the aesthetic or ethos of Smash is one that I consider good.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Have you done it before? To be fair, I haven’t myself, although I did sound a bit “robotic” when trying to rehearse something I wanted to say/record, and from other stuff I remember watching/seeing/experiencing, people typically give away when they’re lying or faking something even if they didn’t mean to because of how our minds work, and when acting, likely won’t copy their previous movements and vocal tones so perfectly that it’s like their brain is a time machine. If PapaGenos is that much of a master at acting, he should get some acting jobs instead of relying on YouTube and whatever.

Is it hard to get the exact? Definitely.

Is it hard to get extremely close? Absolutely not.

I did acting for four years and it doesn't take much to rehearse and recreate a basic scene. If you're acting you don't give off obvious cues, and if you're acting in character it gets even easier to create consistency.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Is it hard to get the exact? Definitely.

Is it hard to get extremely close? Absolutely not.

I did acting for four years and it doesn't take much to rehearse and recreate a basic scene. If you're acting you don't give off obvious cues, and if you're acting in character it gets even easier to create consistency.

Alright then, but from what I compared, it was definitely exact and not just close. Which was my point the whole time. Y’all can compare it yourselves and know what I mean. Unless he’s a perfect actor, I ain’t gonna think criticizing him for being a hateful manchild is a-ok. Criticize him for lying, sure, but he didn’t seem to have any real ill intentions or real spiteful thoughts of Sakurai.

 

[Icewolff92]

Is it hard to get the exact? Definitely.

Is it hard to get extremely close? Absolutely not.

I did acting for four years and it doesn't take much to rehearse and recreate a basic scene. If you're acting you don't give off obvious cues, and if you're acting in character it gets even easier to create consistency.

And he just so conveniently happens to not have an "original recording", which he could post shortly after to "prove" that he was doing a prank, and he tells us almost a week afterward and not right after??? If he believed that this prank would go over well... then he was a big I

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

No. You are making an illogical statement.

It was 100% spot-on logical.

Franchise is massive as a seller. Sorry, but that doesn't matter. They weren't chosen cause of sales.

Yep, because it's a niche franchise. Not that many people buy the games, because not that many people are interested. Only specialized consumers are. That's literally the definition of niche.

Ganondorf(Ganon isn't even playable, sadly so) is a fair point. I'll give you that.

I call him Ganon for short, like most people do.

You want clones cut or not?

I don't like clones or echoes, just fundamentally. I don't like lazy stuff like that. We can keep them as characters, but ideally, I'd alter them to the point where they share no obvious similarities. As they are, they're not free dessert; they're free potato chips.

The rest of your post is just diarrhea of the mouth.

 

[Krankees]

Honestly Spirit disconfirmations are the scariest part of this cycle.

They come without warning, no one is safe–not even characters whose companies haven't been a part of Smash previously–and it disconfirms for the current DLC pass.

They're rough whenever they happen.

The craziest thing is, it's barely been a week since the Astral Chain event.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Lego Yoda in da thread

Who he gonna get with his Honda Civic

Those who failed the Vibe Check. As punishment, they're the traffic cones.

 

[Flyboy]

I can respect wanting to keep with the Smash aesthetic for sure, but that's why I like tossing in a few outliers here and there every so often. Keeps things fresh. I want Style Savvy because the idea of a full sparkly shoujo aesthetic fighter is endlessly funny to me, just like it would be to see Kiryu and his super serious realistic Yakuza self mix it up with Kirby.

Also after doing the Astral Chain battles I can say that as much as spirit deconfirmations can sting, I definitely feel like it's nice having these characters in this game in some form. If they weren't gonna be playable at least let me equip them.

...but I can't promise I won't shed a few tears if Travis or Phoenix Wright are next to get hit.

 

[TheCJBrine]

And he just so conveniently happens to not have an "original recording", which he could post shortly after to "prove" that he was doing a prank, and he tells us almost a week afterward and not right after??? If he believed that this prank would go over well... then he was a big I

Some people genuinely make big dumb mistakes like this. Unless he’s a master at acting, it’s certainly easier to believe, because his performance would’ve been like if time machines were real. That’s how good it would’ve been. He could’ve lucked out, but I’m not sure.

Regardless, I don’t think people should be giving him crap or harassing him over videogames anyway.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Regardless, all of this discourse is off topic, so let's not continue it.

How do y'all think the River City Ransom Spirits affect the chances of an Arc System Works character?

RIP Kunio but Sol's different. Sol's their biggest character imo

 

[Izanagi97]

RIP Kunio but Sol's different. Sol's their biggest character imo

It's either between Sol or Ragna if ASW gets a character if only because I doubt Hyde would make it

 

[DarthEnderX]

With Guilty Gear and Blazblue being a big part of fighting games, I can't see any Arc Sys character that doesn't belong to either series. Kunio hasn't been that active in comparison.

ArcSys has put out more River City games since acquiring Kunio than Guilty Gear and BlazBlue combined.

Some interesting info on how the Fighters Pass 2 characters might be released...

Basically, if you believe this, the characters probably won't be rolled out slowly over the course of two years like everyone is expecting.

Well, FP1 was announced to be out by Feb 2020, and it's actually ending in Jan. So yeah, it looks like they give themselves extra time.

Honestly speaking, I would rather have my personal wants be spirits; rather then not be in the game at all.

I agree. It at least means they're on Sakurai's radar, and maybe they'll get their shot next time.

And honestly, I prefer it this way. It's better to know he's not happening this time around than to waste my energy on false hope.

I still think he woulda been a perfect Mii Brawler costume though...

The orange dudes are the Double Dragon brother's sprites from their appearance in River City Ransom.

https://youtu.be/UTTuQzyijZc

Those are different charcters. That's Ryuichi and Ryuji, not Billy and Jimmy Lee. Even though they use the same music.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I’m still thrilled that Doom of all franchises is seriously considered as a potential new coming series to Smash. One console generation ago, that would have been blasphemy and a bad joke.

I only wonder which carries more weight for his chances. The Sakurai praise effect, or the fact that every game is ending up on Switch and were early supporters of the console.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Regardless, all of this discourse is off topic, so let's not continue it.

How do y'all think the River City Ransom Spirits affect the chances of an Arc System Works character?

To be honest, I think a potential Arcsys rep is still in the running. Besides, it's not like they created the River City franchise. Until support ends and there are no sign of Arcsys characters anywhere, they have a chance. Albeit, it's more like betting your life on a coin-flip, but a chance nonetheless.

On that note, I would laugh if we get some combination of Dante and Sol/Ragna. It would be "Hat Ken" all over again, except the same fans will call Ragna "Weeb Dante" if chosen instead of Sol, while fans call Sol "Sword Terry". Alternatively, they could give us Hyde instead. Oh that would be a hoot to see.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

I’m still thrilled that Doom of all franchises is seriously considered as a potential new coming series to Smash. One console generation ago, that would have been blasphemy and a bad joke.

Still kind of is to me, but I do have to concede that it seems more likely than ever.

Still don't think it belongs, though.

 

[N3ON]

I’m still thrilled that Doom of all franchises is seriously considered as a potential new coming series to Smash. One console generation ago, that would have been blasphemy and a bad joke.

I only wonder which carries more weight for his chances. The Sakurai praise effect, or the fact that every game is ending up on Switch and were early supporters of the console.

The latter might get him on Nintendo's list, the former might be what gets Sakurai to choose Doom among other options.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Honestly, third party Spirits make me think that Sakurai and the team consider Spirits to be part of the celebration.

While we're looking more at characters and costumes, Sakurai and co. are nabbing up characters for Spirits. It certainly makes me reconsider "Spirits Disconfirm" being out the window.

Maybe, to Sakurai and team, being a Spirit is tantamount to being playable in terms of representation.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's either between Sol or Ragna if ASW gets a character if only because I doubt Hyde would make it

If Ragna gets in me and Kunio fans would be that one meme where the 2 burly dudes shake their hands, putting their differences aside to both hate Ragna

 

[KarneraMythos]

Honestly, third party Spirits make me think that Sakurai and the team consider Spirits to be part of the celebration.

While we're looking more at characters and costumes, Sakurai and co. are nabbing up characters for Spirits. It certainly makes me reconsider "Spirits Disconfirm" being out the window.

Maybe, to Sakurai and team, being a Spirit is tantamount to being playable in terms of representation.

That's certainly the glass-half-full perspective of it, but the reason it puts off so many fans is because the Spirits themselves suggest that the characters weren't deemed "essential" for fully realizable move-sets. Seeing any character relegated to cameo status feels akin to an object-of-interest trapped in a glass case: You can only see it, not touch it, much less interact with it. I understand where you're coming from, but I can also sympathize with those who get sad about Spirit announcements. Hell, I'll admit I'd feel a bit morose for a while if any of mine got axed off and hung like wall trophies.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Oh damn RIP in peace Kunio. My condolences to DarthEnderX

Honestly, third party Spirits make me think that Sakurai and the team consider Spirits to be part of the celebration.

While we're looking more at characters and costumes, Sakurai and co. are nabbing up characters for Spirits. It certainly makes me reconsider "Spirits Disconfirm" being out the window.

Maybe, to Sakurai and team, being a Spirit is tantamount to being playable in terms of representation.

I like to think that Sakurai isn't that out of touch.

 

[GuiltyGyarados]

Maybe, to Sakurai and team, being a Spirit is tantamount to being playable in terms of representation.

Yeah, that's always how I felt. It feels so out of touch, but in that Sakurai way.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

That's certainly the glass-half-full perspective of it, but the reason it puts off so many fans is because the Spirits themselves suggest that the characters weren't deemed "essential" for fully realizable move-sets. Seeing any character relegated to cameo status feels akin to an object-of-interest trapped in a glass case: You can only see it, not touch it, much less interact with it. I understand where you're coming from, but I can also sympathize with those who get sad about Spirit announcements. Hell, I'll admit I'd feel a bit morose for a while.

Of course. With this statement comes a presumption that there's a disconnect between what the fans think and what Sakurai and co. think, and that's unfortunate.

Doesn't change the fact that it's quite possible Sakurai and co. consider Spirits good enough for a character being in Smash. It doesn't matter what form they're in. It just matters that they are in.

I like to think that Sakurai isn't that out of touch.

Is it being out of touch? Dude has an artistic vision that isn't bound to the fans. I don't see anything necessarily wrong with it.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Honestly, third party Spirits make me think that Sakurai and the team consider Spirits to be part of the celebration.

While we're looking more at characters and costumes, Sakurai and co. are nabbing up characters for Spirits. It certainly makes me reconsider "Spirits Disconfirm" being out the window.

Maybe, to Sakurai and team, being a Spirit is tantamount to being playable in terms of representation.

He could still go back and decide to make one from basegame playable. The playable roster is usually seen as the coolest thing, and Sakurai likely knows just how much people want their favorite characters as playable fighters.

maybe a certain one he’s expressed wanting as playable himself, referring to the costume as at least something

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Maybe, to Sakurai and team, being a Spirit is tantamount to being playable in terms of representation.

Doubt it. He just sees it as valid representation for series. He cares about his content.

Though maybe I misunderstand the term tantamount though. I feel like Mii Costumes and AT's are closer to that, both being majorly notable in gameplay. Spirits are updated Trophies instead.