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I don't think there will be an echo pass, but I can absolutely see an echo being sprinkled in once or twice throughout the year, much like how Mii Costumes and some stages were in Smash 4.
Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude will probably get Mii Costumes.
I’ve seen that too. YouTuber WhoIsThisGit made tons of videos going over all of TTYD’s flaws to show how 64 was the better Paper Mario and that TTYD is overrated. Honestly, there seems to be a 3 way tie for the first 3 entries as many prefer the original now, TTYD is usually still held up as the general consensus best game, and Super is this weird title that many find underrated and like due to the very different feel of the title, not to mention the story and characters.
Exactly. The actual definition is they must share the same proportions(the most accurate term to use, though Reggie and Sakurai have used synonyms).
Since they re-released the Tails and Knuckles ones, I'm betting other third party costumes from 4 will be too. We had a few Mega Man ones like Protoman, MMX, Zero and EXE.
Not that Metal Sonic would have been incredibly likely anyway, but would they make Tails one after reselling the Mii costume from Smash 4?
Are you Sakurai? Can you exactly tell when an echo is pushing echo boundaries or not?
The weird thing is that Isabelle's proportions aren't similar enough to Villager for her to be a full on clone. I remember that was Sakurai's reasoning at least. I think the only grounds for "can we make an echo of this character" is that they need to have the exact same body type so it's easier to share animations between the original and the echo.
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2018/09/26/sakurai-discusses-isabelle-echoes-and-newcomers/ Yeah, cause I actually read what he says. I'm still waiting for a source on Ken being a legitimate outlier, but I'm not so sure it's real, as I still haven't gotten an answer on that. Proportions(Otherwise known as "have fundamentally different body types" according to him) have to be the same. That's a very specific rule, even one that Reggie spoke of(Reggie's other rules... were not shown to be correct as of Ken. Though if Ken is an outlier, that means they're intended).
Honestly, given how Sakurai spoke of echoes, I don't even know if he's sure what the boundaries are... and those are entirely up to him. It's kind of funny to me and I just rolled with it.
I'm not sure. Again, some of the playable characters do have Mii costumes, many of which were costumes in Smash 4. Chrom and K.Rool's being default in Ultimate. And if Tails is an echo of Sonic, it's not like the playstyle would overlap too much. Most of the Mii costumes only scratch the surface anyway, it's not like Mii-Gunner Fights like how Mega Man EXE should for example, or Sword Fighter does for Black Knight.
So, are Ken's proportions okay to Ryu's or is the issue the different input moves and such?
Yeah, they wouldn't necessarily be selling Tails twice. Tho while I'd love a simple echo for Tails (and infinitely over Shadow at that), maybe proportion-wise he'd be a little different to Sonic maybe? Though maybe they could get away with giving him Ken/Chrom different moves, I'd have to wonder if Sega'd be okay with representing Tails as that if Shadow, the even-more-like-Sonic-down-to-gameplay-in-the-games character, didn't end up getting one.
Really, even Sakurai himself doesn't really follow his own rules all that religiously. Which is why we ended up with the whole gun thing that he used to care so much about at one point with Snake and the Ray Gun item, and then stopped caring about it altogether at another once Bayonetta and Joker showed up.
Ken has the exact same proportions.
From what I understand the basic differences with Ken are:Ken has the exact same proportions.
His moveset is extremely similar, with some knockback/etc. not that different from ones like Dr. Mario(which is still significant from regular Mario). He has very different input commands, but that's the same mechanic Ryu has. It's hard to say if he's an outlier due to the same mechanic(which makes him super different) or that he has a lot more tweaks than what we should expect from a normal Echo. I haven't found the actual article on Ken, though. When I do, I'll link it.
Oh, and also Ms. Pac-Man is a viable option I guess.
Does Namco still own Ms. Pac-Man? I feel like that character hasn't been used for years. Should've been an alt costume at least.
I agree with all of your rules and I think rule 3 is why Alph is still a costume. That and the fact that Olimar in Smash is mute for some reason. There's not a lot of ways you can differntiate Olimar from Alph in terms of animation, so I guess they figured the costume is fine as is.
I'd assume so, as she appears on the Pac-Land stage.
In all games other than Mega Man 9 and 10 Bass seems to have different proportions than Mega Man. They could still make it work, but I think Proto Man is the better pick. Should they choose him I think the best way of tweaking the moveset would be to have Proto Man raise his shield after jumping while not attacking. The shield would reflect projectiles at a 45 (upward) degree angle. Proto Man would also take 1.5x damage. As for his actual attacks, his Neutral Attack, Forward Tilt, and Neutral Aerial should fire two, more powerful buster shots, his Up Tilt should be Knight Crush since he can't use the Mega Upper, his Dash Attack should be Proto Strike (a powerful K.O. move), his Down Aerial should fire a fist instead of Proto Man's actual fist since he has never used the Mega Arm, and his Up Special would be Proto Coil; a move that is the same as Rush Coil, but without the dog. Also, while Proto Man is charging his Forward Smash, he could hold up his shield to block incoming projectiles like he does in Mega Man 7.
This is my thinking as well. Though if it's at all possible Alph should totally have his Purple Pikmin reskinned as Rock Pikmin.
Simmilar to Alph, I think Ms. Pac-Man should also be an alternate costume. It'd sure beat the leg warmers and wing boots anyway.
In the other NES games, Protoman's proportions are similar to Mega Man's. His Sprites in MM9 and MM10 are the same ones from MM3-MM6. And their proportions in MM7-8 are nearly identical like Mario and Luigi, similar enough that one could be based off the other. Keep in mind Mega Man himself got taller in MM8 since that's what the artstyle was for that game. Bass is a bit taller in most games, with only MM7 having a drastic height difference between the two. Compare them in MM&B and they aren't that different. It's similar to Mega Man X and Zero being the nearly the same size in most games and in nearly all art work. I mainly mentioned MM9 for Protoman to give an idea of how his gameplay should be implemented. I like some of the ideas you mentioned too.
There's a lot of options for another Mega Man character. Zero's not even the only Sword fighter of the group, with Mega Man EXE and Starforce Mega Man being other big examples. There's a LOT of options. I've got a thread about if you're interested in voting for Zero. Keep in mind you can vote multiple characters if there's more than 1 that interests you.
https://smashboards.com/threads/super-fighting-robots-2nd-mega-man-character-thread.482471/
I don't count echo fighters among true newcomers. If we were to get a more actual Mega Man characters then they should probably be Zero, X, Dr. Wily, and Sigma (in that order).
Personally speaking, I'd be down for Zero...
Personally I think a combination of the two would be fantastic but as long as he looks like the Mega Man X version I wouldn't care what the move set is
They'd probably use both looks since the proportions aren't much different.
They could have alternate costumes where it's purely the MMX version and the MMZero version
I can see Proto being closer to Mega Man, as in, using the same normals, but with different specials (pretty much what you said). For Bass, though... I think he could be more like Dark Samus is to Samus, with different elemental properties on some of his moves (like Chill Spike for his Down Smash - same hitbox and frames, but Ice property instead of Fire) or just animations (his back air could look like Tengu Blade instead of Slash Claw) to represent the games he appeared in as a playable character. And different properties in the specials, too.
Yeah, Ken's got a couple of other extra differences with his normals too:
I think Bass would have a few changes to his attacks as well. In Mega Man & Bass and onward he uses the Bass Buster, which locks him in place on the ground. If they implemented this attack, he would need a new Forward Tilt. Bass also doesn't have an equivalent to the Rush Coil. He could use Treble Boost instead, but it would act pretty differently.
Thanks, I was forgetting which of his normals were different from Ryu's.
They could give Bass Tornado Hold since he does, technically appear in MM8, it'd be another way to bring in custom moves from Smash 4 and not change the animations.
Or maybe Sakura. She is at least aesthetically different from Ryu and Ken (different clothes) and is the most popular Street Fighter character, according to Capcom's recent poll (results here).
We already haveOr maybe Sakura. She is at least aesthetically different from Ryu and Ken (different clothes) and is the most popular Street Fighter character, according to Capcom's recent poll (results here).
And we can have fun by saying Sakurai is in Smash.
She and M. Bison are my two most-wanted Street Fighter reps. Not that we need more SF characters, but I just love the franchise so any more is good by me.Or maybe Sakura. She is at least aesthetically different from Ryu and Ken (different clothes) and is the most popular Street Fighter character, according to Capcom's recent poll (results here).
And we can have fun by saying Sakurai is in Smash.
Full pass? No way.
