Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Jomosensual]

But wasn't of them the two legendaries? It would have made more sense to have them be on a DLC spirit board.

They were, but they also added 2(or more) into the game with the new packs so the two of them could just fill in

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Except Kris is definitely the main character of Deltarune, and Three Houses was within Sakurai's access as it was a Nintendo game. Not saying Deltarune wouldn't be in Sakurai reach, but Three Houses was a major Nintendo release, and Deltarune is a relatively large indie release. There's less motivation to go after it.

I really feel like you're reaching here.

I mean, Sakurai did say that Toby Fox came to his house for a few rounds of Smash Ultimate. Maybe their relationship is good enough that Toby could've shown Sakurai a version of Deltarune, and then one thing lead to another?

... eh, you're right. I am reaching. Though, whether or not I'm wrong about Susie doesn't matter too much to me. As along as at least a couple of those other characters ends up part of Fighters Pass 2, I'll be happy.

 

[Goombaic]

But wasn't of them the two legendaries? It would have made more sense to have them be on a DLC spirit board.

Eternatus is still around, and new legendaries are getting in the game anyway so it's not a huge loss for a Pokemon spirit board.

 

[Ura]

Despite me believing in base game Spirits being fair game, i'm of mind that any post-game spirit added in is pretty much dead for the rest of the DLC cycle. Especially if Pass 2 was decided on throughout late 2018-mid 2019.

MAYBE there's a chance if there were a Pass 3 but even then it's kinda doubtful IMO.

 

[Krankees]

They were, but they also added 2(or more) into the game with the new packs so the two of them could just fill in

Alright fair, but then we have the problem of when Sakurai chose the fighter's pass 2 characters. The pokemon direct was only the week before the Byleth presentation. If they were chosen before the direct, at the very least it can't be Urshifu.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

If Sakurai was telling the truth that all characters in fp2 have been decided, that means they could all be leaked. That would be nice. I don't want to wait two years to find out six characters.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Wonder what fan rules the Season 2 characters will break because I had a laugh reading this tweet regarding broken fan rules

"the Pokemon has to be from the recent gen"
...Greninja didn't break that. If anything, the rule 4 broke regarding Pokemon would be "we'd get one Kanto rep+one new one".

Also I think the rule and arguably the alternate DQ Heroes broke is more like "Third party series can only have one fighter"

 

[slrigeigdew]

I mean, Sakurai did say that Toby Fox came to his house for a few rounds of Smash Ultimate. Maybe their relationship is good enough that Toby could've shown Sakurai a version of Deltarune, and then one thing lead to another?

... eh, you're right. I am reaching. Though, whether or not I'm wrong about Susie doesn't matter too much to me. As along as at least a couple of those other characters ends up part of Fighters Pass 2, I'll be happy.

For what it's worth, I agree with your choices for the 2nd fighter pass and I appreciate the effort you made in the original post.

I just don't see Toby Fox letting Sakurai use Susie when Frisk/Chara and Kris are literally right there.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Alright fair, but then we have the problem of when Sakurai chose the fighter's pass 2 characters. The pokemon direct was only the week before the Byleth presentation. If it was before the direct, at the very least it can't be Urshifu.

To play devil's advocate, development for SwSh DLC has probably been in development even before base game, judging that they had multiple models and playable areas ready less than two months after release. It's quite possible that it'd been in early stages before the November 2019 cutoff for Fighters Pass 2.

That being said, I find it hard to believe unless Sakurai explicitly saved a spot for Pokémon, which I would also find hard to believe.

 

[Cosmic77]

The official name of the Spirit is "Zacian and Zamazenta" so it's not like Sakurai couldn't just pick one and make an individual Spirit. That, or they could be a transformation character and we could get their base form. It could be labeled "Hero of Many Battles".

Also, none of the SwSh Pokemon use the same artwork style as the other Pokemon Spirits, despite that artwork existing.

 

[staindgrey]

If I had to make an early guess...

I'd say the next pass will be half Nintendo properties and half third party IPs.

I say this because licensing the rights for these characters, as well as their stages, music, etc., must take some of the profits out of DLC. At the same time, Nintendo seems happy to oblige as they have sold an absurd amount of copies of this game, and had to get people to buy into the Fighters Pass.

For round two, however, A) you have fewer people buying DLC as that's the natural progression of a game's lifespan, and B) the people left playing the game and paying for content are more likely to buy the Fighters Pass regardless of who's in it, in terms of percentage of active players. This is important because it means that Nintendo can rely on properties they themselves own, and don't have to split earnings with anyone else as a result.

They've had a year and a half of social media to gauge and analyze, and try to figure out which of their IPs are genuinely most wanted-- not necessarily by small but vocal fanbases, but by large swathes of people based on social media algorithms and internal findings.


I think they start off with a big third party unexpected character, then follow up with a much-desired Nintendo character-- Waluigi, perhaps. Maybe Skullkid. Who knows. But then that will throw all our speculation into a tailspin as we'll no longer heavily rely on third party choices, and Nintendo properties will become fair game again.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

another thing to note is that this is the first time Pokemon ever had major DLC. And even though SwSh is controversial, it sold extremely well

Alright fair, but then we have the problem of when Sakurai chose the fighter's pass 2 characters. The pokemon direct was only the week before the Byleth presentation. If they were chosen before the direct, at the very least it can't be Urshifu.

Nintendo does give Sakurai access to Pokemon while they're being developed, that was the case for both Lucario and Greninja, Greninja wasn't even properly named when he was picked out for Smash iirc.

 

[Krankees]

Alright fair, but then we have the problem of when Sakurai chose the fighter's pass 2 characters. The pokemon direct was only the week before the Byleth presentation. If they were chosen before the direct, at the very least it can't be Urshifu.

I just remembered that 3H came out after smash had been released so I take back my statement about Urshifu maybe not making it in.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Inb4 one of the season 2 characters is Yu Narukami.

B E C A U S E P E R S O N A 4 N E V E R D I E S !

 

[DevaAshera]

If Sakurai was telling the truth that all characters in fp2 have been decided, that means they could all be leaked. That would be nice. I don't want to wait two years to find out six characters.

I don't mind waiting to find out..I mean, we'd still end up getting them at the same point regardless and I love the anticipation and sense of wonder each new trailer brings when the character wasn't spoiled.
I was literally smiling ear to ear and saying 'No f'in' way! Yes! F Yes!' when both Joker and Byleth were revealed.

Inb4 one of the season 2 characters is Yu Narukami.
View attachment 258459
B E C A U S E P E R S O N A 4 N E V E R D I E S !

I would legit not mind, Persona 4 is one of my favorite games..though then they would have to change the Persona series icon from the Phantom Thieves logo to something else, likely the Shadow Mask logo.

 

[Ura]

If I had to make an early guess...

I'd say the next pass will be half Nintendo properties and half third party IPs.

I say this because licensing the rights for these characters, as well as their stages, music, etc., must take some of the profits out of DLC. At the same time, Nintendo seems happy to oblige as they have sold an absurd amount of copies of this game, and had to get people to buy into the Fighters Pass.

For round two, however, A) you have fewer people buying DLC as that's the natural progression of a game's lifespan, and B) the people left playing the game and paying for content are more likely to buy the Fighters Pass regardless of who's in it, in terms of percentage of active players. This is important because it means that Nintendo can rely on properties they themselves own, and don't have to split earnings with anyone else as a result.

They've had a year and a half of social media to gauge and analyze, and try to figure out which of their IPs are genuinely most wanted-- not necessarily by small but vocal fanbases, but by large swathes of people based on social media algorithms and internal findings.


I think they start off with a big third party unexpected character, then follow up with a much-desired Nintendo character-- Waluigi, perhaps. Maybe Skullkid. Who knows. But then that will throw all our speculation into a tailspin as we'll no longer heavily rely on third party choices, and Nintendo properties will become fair game again.

This is how Andy can win.

 

[Icewolff92]

Yes. They did.

Not the highest moment of this fanbase.

The endgame part of pre-release Smash Brothers was a nightmare. Especially when the hilarious grinch leak started

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So I went and made an image with my predictions for Fighters Pass 2...

Allow me to provide some details (spoiler-ed of course, since this entire post would otherwise be too big). First, some general stuff that I think will happen, even if the specific characters above don't happen...

Spoiler: spoiler-ed for length

• I think this pass will introduce a character from a third-party who so far lacks any playable characters.
• With Capcom and Bandai Namco not getting additional playable characters in the first Pass (and the base game if you don't count Echo Fighters), I'm thinking Fighters Pass 2 will bring in additional characters from those two companies.
• With this Pass having six characters instead of just five, I think that at least one third-party company will get a "double dip" and have two characters in the pass.
• With Byleth establishing that first-party characters are still on the table, I think Fighters Pass 2 will have at least one first-party character.
• Furthermore, I think this Pass will finally give us our first "promoted to playable" character. Whether it's an Assist Trophy, Mii Fighter costume, or a Spirit, I think we're seeing one of those make the jump to being playable in this Pass.
• With Byleth also establishing that your game doesn't have to be released to be picked for DLC, I think Fighters Pass 2, for better or for worse, will also have another such character: someone whose game wasn't out yet by the time the DLC for Fighters Pass 2 was finalized... a "shill pick" if you're not feeling charitable.

Now, for my very specific predictions for which characters will be in this Pass, along with which Mii Fighter costumes they'll come with...

Spoiler: spoiler-ed for length

1. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
   • One of the last few big gaming icons of the NES days, and still has a notable Nintendo connection even today. With Koei Tecmo having a good relationship with Nintendo and even some content in Smash (Fatal Frame's Yuri Kozukata as an Assist Trophy), I think now's the time they're gonna get a playable character, with Hayabusa being the most likely. The Mii Fighter costume wave will mostly be ninja-themed...
     • Momiji (Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword) - A pick for the obvious Ninja Gaiden costume, and a reoccurring character who's also made appearances in Dead or Alive and the Warriors games.
     • Kasumi (Dead or Alive) - The designated Dead or Alive costume, who's also a character in the Ninja Gaiden series. Specifically a brawler costume to keep with Dead or Alive being a fighting game.
     • Nobunaga Oda (Samurai Warriors) - The title character of one of Koei Tecmo's long running turn-based strategy game series, specifically based off of his appearance in the Samurai Warriors series.
     • Joe Musashi (Shinobi) - Since Terry technically came with Sega costumes, I could see Hayabusa also coming with similar costumes. For one, Joe Musashi from Sega's own ninja video game series Shinobi would be a perfect fit...
     • Kage-Maru (Virtua Fighter) - ...as would Kage-Maru, who would also be a brawler costume like Kasumi.
2. Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney)
   • In terms of Capcom characters that could make it into Smash, Phoenix Wright honestly feels like the most likely. His only "competition" in regards to other Capcom characters are a Resident Evil character and Dante from Devil May Cry. The former was shot down thanks to a Spirit Event, and while the latter is also likely, I think Wright would manage to edge out between the two. His series is very closely associated with Nintendo (to the point that, along with Professor Layton, Ace Attorney is listed on the Nintendo UK website as part of the Nintendo Characters Hub), having made its home on Nintendo handhelds like the GBA, DS, and 3DS, and his series was also acknowledged by Sakurai, if only for a TGS promo that managed to catch his eye.
     • Blue Badger (Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney) - Specifically based off of the full body costume from Ace Attorney Investigations. Also, the blue color will change to pink depending on the Mii Fighter's gender.
     • Steel Samurai and Pink Princess (Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney) - A pair of in-universe fictional characters from the TV show, and perfect fodder for Swordfighter costumes.
     • Bass (Mega Man 7) - To go with the returning Mega Man costumes, I think we'll likely get a new one based on Bass.
     • Hunter's Armor and Rathalos Armor (Monster Hunter) - The only Capcom costumes that haven't returned yet, and it actually makes sense that they would return with Phoenix Wright, since both the Ace Attorney and Monster Hunter series have had crossover collaborations before.
3. Heihachi (Tekken)
   • Since the base game of Smash 4, Bandai Namco has had only Pac-Man as their sole playable character. They didn't get one during Smash 4 DLC, Ultimate's base game, or the previous Fighters Pass... so I'm gonna take a shot and say they're getting a character in this pass, specifically Heihachi, the main villain of Bandai Namco's Tekken fighting game series. He's also a character that Sakurai has considered before for Smash 4, and while it ultimately never happened due to Sakurai not knowing how to implement Heihachi's moveset into Smash... Sakurai has changed his mind before, so Fighters Pass 2 might be it this time. Like Terry, Heihachi's Mii Fighter costume wave will be fighting game themed...
     • King (Tekken) - There's technically two characters with the name King. The one from the first Tekken game, and his successor from Tekken 3 onward. I think it could go either way with this one.
     • Yoshimitsu (Tekken) - A character who's had different appearances in every Tekken game. I think his Tekken 3 appearance is most likely, considering it has made appearances in more than one game (specifically Tekken Tag Tournament and Street Fighter X Tekken), but who knows. Maybe Sakurai would go with a different one... or maybe Yoshimitsu's Swordfighter costume would have a wholly original Smash design.
     • Mokujin (Tekken 3) - A training dummy character who mimics the moves and abilities of the other fighters.
     • Master Raven (Tekken 7) - I don't know if a Tekken 7 costume is likely, but if it happens, I think Master Raven would be the most likely out of Tekken 7's newcomers. INB4 "Negan for Smash" jokes.
     • Chun-Li (Street Fighter II) - Really needs no explanation.
     • Bahn (Fighting Vipers) - Another Sega fighting game costume, this time a character that appeared in Project X Zone along with Heihachi.
4. Lloyd (Tales of Symphonia)
   • ... yup, I think Bandai Namco will be "double dipped" for this Pass. Not only do I think Heihachi is coming, but so is Lloyd, one of the most heavily requested characters for Smash. Both Lloyd and Heihachi were Mii Fighter costumes in Smash 4, and with both being absent so far, I think both will be making the jump to playable status. His Mii Fighter costume wave will all be swordfighters based on other Bandai Namco characters...
     • Yuri Lowell (Tales of Vesperia) and Cress Albane (Tales of Phantasia) - Obligatory Tales costumes, the former being one of the most popular characters in the Tales series, and the latter being the main character of the first Tales game.
     • Sophitia (Soulcalibur) - One of the main characters of Bandai Namco's other fighting game series.
     • Chosen Undead (Dark Souls) - Another big RPG game that Bandai Namco has been involved with (being the publishers of Dark Souls).
     • Valkyrie (The Adventure of Valkyrie) and Gil (The Tower of Druaga) - Two characters from Bandai Namco's classic arcade games, with Gil being another returning costume.
5. Rex & Pyra (Xenoblade Chronicles 2)
   • Byleth has shown that first-party characters are certainly not off the table in regards to Ultimate DLC... and they also show that it's never too late for any character to make it into Smash. I think Rex & Pyra are gonna be the token first-party character of Fighters Pass 2, being from a game that Sakurai has notably praised. Initially a Mii Fighter costume that Sakurai apologized for, they'll also be the first "promoted" character making the jump from being a costume to playable. Like Byleth and Banjo-Kazooie, their Mii Fighter costume wave will be a grab bag of mostly unrelated costumes...
     • The Prince (Prince of Persia) - With Ubisoft getting more content in Smash (such as the Assassin's Creed and Rabbids costumes), I think it's likely we'll see another costume.
     • Mei (Overwatch) - Controversy or no, I see Overwatch likely getting some sort of representation. If not a playable character, then at least a Mii costume of a character like Mei.
     • Ancient Nord Armor and Daedric Armor (Skyrim) - Same thing goes for Skyrim, which I can see getting the Monster Hunter treatment of having Mii Fighter costumes based on different armor sets.
     • Chocobo (Final Fantasy) - One of the returning Mii Fighter hats. Might as well include it with another JRPG character...
     • Quote (Cave Story) - Like Sans and Cuphead, this is another Mii Fighter costume I could see getting the deluxe treatment, with a really good looking costume that closely resembles the character and comes with a music track (specifically, a remix of "On to Grasstown").
6. Susie (Deltarune)
   • ... yup, I'm going here. I think Fighters Pass 2 is gonna have another Byleth-esque pick that was chosen before their game was even out yet... and it's gonna be Susie from Deltarune, who will also be Ultimate's first fully playable indie game character. At the time of this post, the full game isn't out yet, only the first chapter. We've already gotten a Sans costume, complete with a remix of Megalovania by Toby Fox himself, and we know that Sakurai and Fox are at least on good terms with each other, so it wouldn't surprise me if we were to get a character from Fox's upcoming game. As for the Mii Fighter costumes, it'll mostly be references to games with Toby Fox's involvement...
     • Kris (Deltarune) - The main protagonist of Susie's game.
     • Axe (Little Town Hero) - One of two Game Freak games that Fox has had a hand in, in this case writing the entire game's soundtrack.
     • Bea (Pokemon Sword and Shield) - The other Game Freak game with music by Toby Fox, albeit just one song this time.
     • Papyrus (Undertale) - Another character from Undertale. Like his brother, he's a Mii Fighter costume who comes with a music track, this time a remix of his theme "Bonetrousle".
     • Shovel Knight - The only exception to the "Toby Fox" theme here. Since a lot of people want Shovel Knight to be playable, I can see Sakurai meeting everyone halfway and making him into a deluxe Mii Fighter costume that comes with a music track (for this one, "In the Halls of the Usurper").

Whether my predictions are right, wrong, or somewhere inbetween, hopefully we won't have to wait long to find out.

Its got Phoenix Wright. It more then makes up for everything if true.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh boy. You're back.
Are you happy with Byleth, Lesley?

Obvious ba? Of course!

 

[staindgrey]

Inb4 one of the season 2 characters is Yu Narukami.
View attachment 258459
B E C A U S E P E R S O N A 4 N E V E R D I E S !

I still need to finish that.

But God I am not really a JRPG guy.

 

[PK-remling Fire]

Inb4 one of the season 2 characters is Yu Narukami.
View attachment 258459
B E C A U S E P E R S O N A 4 N E V E R D I E S !

I would love that! I could see him as being a more melee-focused equivalent to Joker

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

If I had to make an early guess...

I'd say the next pass will be half Nintendo properties and half third party IPs.

I say this because licensing the rights for these characters, as well as their stages, music, etc., must take some of the profits out of DLC. At the same time, Nintendo seems happy to oblige as they have sold an absurd amount of copies of this game, and had to get people to buy into the Fighters Pass.

For round two, however, A) you have fewer people buying DLC as that's the natural progression of a game's lifespan, and B) the people left playing the game and paying for content are more likely to buy the Fighters Pass regardless of who's in it, in terms of percentage of active players. This is important because it means that Nintendo can rely on properties they themselves own, and don't have to split earnings with anyone else as a result.

They've had a year and a half of social media to gauge and analyze, and try to figure out which of their IPs are genuinely most wanted-- not necessarily by small but vocal fanbases, but by large swathes of people based on social media algorithms and internal findings.


I think they start off with a big third party unexpected character, then follow up with a much-desired Nintendo character-- Waluigi, perhaps. Maybe Skullkid. Who knows. But then that will throw all our speculation into a tailspin as we'll no longer heavily rely on third party choices, and Nintendo properties will become fair game again.

Honestly I'm more with the idea we get more B and C list third parties. If Nintendo works with mostly companies already on board (Capcom, Sega, Square, Namco, etc.) too they can cut costs even more. Obviously, save for one or two huge third parties to carry the pass, but have mostly smaller offerings that bring new series and playstyles to Smash while also appealing to wide demographics.

 

[staindgrey]

Honestly I'm more with the idea we get more B and C list third parties. If Nintendo works with mostly companies already on board (Capcom, Sega, Square, Namco, etc.) too they can cut costs even more.

That's also a good analysis of things.

Though I do wonder how much companies offer "discounts" for repeated uses. I admit ignorance on that front. It would certainly make negotiations easier and quicker, though, absolutely.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I've asked this question before and I'll ask again here. Who is your most wanted character who you will accept NPC roles for (Assist, boss, Spirit/Trophy, Mii Costume, etc.) and do you have any characters you want that are Fighter or bust?

Well, alot of my most wanted characters COULD work as Mii costumes. Hayabusa could be a Swordfighter. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean could be Gunners. Kunio/Riki, Billy Lee/Jimmy Lee could all be Brawlers. Of course I'd still rather get them as playable.

I'd like to see King Hippo as playable, but I'd be okay if he was an Assist Trophy, along with Eggplant Wizard. And Mother Brain was a boss.

I'd like to see Gradius and Blaster Master get repped, but the Vic Viper and Sophia 3rd don't make sense as characters. So I'll take them as ATs or spirits.

Of course, I have a complete list of playable characters, echo fighters, bosses and assist trophies I'd like to see HERE.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I would love that! I could see him as being a more melee-focused equivalent to Joker

I kinda only suggested it for the music

 

[staindgrey]

I kinda only suggested it for the music

I haven't even played it yet and I'm upset you didn't pick this one.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well we got a rumor from zippo

It’s a new paper Mario thing is coming

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

That's also a good analysis of things.

Though I do wonder how much companies offer "discounts" for repeated uses. I admit ignorance on that front. It would certainly make negotiations easier and quicker, though, absolutely.

I don't think it's "discounts" so much as it's a company that:

• Has already worked extensively with Nintendo
• Has already worked with Nintendo on Smash Bros.
  • Understands the power that Smash has to advertise their intellectual properties
• Has intellectual properties they wish to advertise

It comes down to synergistic goals and meeting in the middle. Nintendo can get a good price, and the third party can advertise another one of their characters in the largest video game crossover of all time. Both parties get hella press and pretty good bank too, so it works out.

You also have to consider that these companies' S and A-tier characters are already in, and it's their B-tier characters on the table now. No way is 2B or Bravely going to run up as much as Cloud or Hero, nor would Dante or Phoenix run up as much as Ryu.

There's also the factor of risk in negotiations to consider, which makes existing third parties more attractive when trying to minimize overall cost.

 

[Krankees]

I kinda only suggested it for the music

I haven't even played it yet and I'm upset you didn't pick this one.

I could see this song being in smash.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I could see this song being in smash.

I can easily see this being the song that plays on the spirit board.

I'm glad were all on the same page with this.

 

[staindgrey]

Hey guys, remember to remove Youtube videos from quotes.

Some people's PCs/phones can't handle so many embeds, so be courteous.

 

[Idon]

Enough with the ****in' songs

 

[Krankees]

Hey guys, remember to remove Youtube videos from quotes.

Some people's PCs/phones can't handle so many embeds, so be courteous.

My bad

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Enough with the ****in' songs

That's why I play this game though. It's my 110 dollar music player

 

[Dutch Raikuna]

That's why I play this game though. It's my 110 dollar music player

"I'm sorrrrry but did you get a loiiiiisence to post the songs 'ere?!

"May have to send in THE Lawyers!"

 

[Perkilator]

Enough with the ****in' songs

NO. MOAR. I’ll even shove in FAN MADE REMIXES if need be.
(All fictitious, of course, but still)

Spoiler

 

[Idon]

Have you all never heard of a thing called a ?

 

[Krankees]

"I'm sorrrrry but did you get a loiiiiisence to post the songs 'ere?!

"May have to send in THE Lawyers!"

"Oh yeah? Well I know a pretty good attorney. An Ace Attorney if you will."

 

[staindgrey]

Have you all never heard of a thing called a ?

Oo! Oo! I know!

That's Zelda!

 

[SneakyLink]

Have you all never heard of a thing called a ?

Hmm... I prefer using the myself.