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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Knight Dude

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Well if that ballot rumor from a few months ago is true. The 3rd party characters that negoiations failed for 4's DLC ahead of Bayonetta were Snake, Sora, Phoenix Wright, and Bomberman.

https://smashboards.com/threads/ult...everyone-laugh.467706/page-2623#post-23132879
If that's true, I wonder how that'd even go down. You'd think getting Phoenix Wright after Mega Man and Ryu would be a somewhat easy affair. I'd at least assume Bayo also needed Platinum's approval on top of Sega's.

At Smash 4's time, Snake, Bomberman and Sora being hard to get makes sense still.
 

RileyXY1

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Curious Villager

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Well if that ballot rumor from a few months ago is true. The 3rd party characters that negoiations failed for 4's DLC ahead of Bayonetta were Snake, Sora, Phoenix Wright, and Bomberman.

https://smashboards.com/threads/ult...everyone-laugh.467706/page-2623#post-23132879
I can understand Snake and Bomberman due to Konami at the time, and I suppose Sora too.

But why would Capcom reject Phoenix though? Especially since they seemed so open to play ball with Sakurai with Mega Man and Street Fighter.
 

TMNTSSB4

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The only thing I hope out of this pass is that there's a character from a game I actually play.
Amen to that
I mean, I still view Konami lending Metal Gear and Castlevania as them basically whoring out their IPs to make money. The main reason why Snake, Simon and Richter have so many diverse color schemes while Pac-Man, Cloud and Sonic are stuck with gloves and shades of blues is because Konami don't really care about how Nintendo treats their characters so long as they get paid. (I have similar hangups about Capcom putting Mega Man in 4, but they've been redeeming themselves recently.)

It's rather ironic how the most disregarded 3rd-party franchises have been given the most love in Smash.

EDIT: Forgot about Bayonetta and Joker. There it seems to be a happy medium between creative control and corporate needs.
Konami whoring out to Smash was probably one of their smartest moves in these past few years since the Kojima incident, and as for Joker...his deal seems more of a “Sakurai and crew gonna give him the Kid Icarus/Kirby pampering it needs” kind of thing, so way past creative control and corporate needs (for real though...Persona was treated hella nicely)
 

thisjustin2001

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Woah now, let's not state the RAYMAN FROZEN IN BATTLEFIELD as legit like that.

Hey man, I don't have anything against Rosalina or Bowser Jr, and I've played Mario games a plenty, who hasn't? The Miis, Pac-Man himself, even the Duck Hunt Dog's games I may have all been familiar with at the time, and their inclusion was totally fine and cool! It's just that, and through no fault of their own, they didn't happen to be franchises I was very, quite into. I got my Animal Crossing character after the previous doubts of being unsuited for battle, but I also played both of the (localised) Rhythm Paradise games at the time and wanted the Chorus Kids Gematsu thing to be true. There'd be not one, but TWO characters I was into and thus really excited for! TWO!

Sadly though, it didn't end up that way and continued with Ultimate (even though the other Gemetsu-failed character made it into that one *grumble*...)
Oh, gotcha. Yeah, I find that pretty relatable. The only characters revealed for Smash out of the last 17 characters that have been revealed since Smash 4's DLC cycle are Inkling, Daisy and Isabelle... I hope Nintendo adds more characters that people outside of the really hardcore Smash demographic would be pleased with. Here's to hoping!
 

Icedragonadam

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I can understand Snake and Bomberman due to Konami at the time, and I suppose Sora too.

But why would Capcom reject Phoenix though? Especially since they seemed so open to play ball with Sakurai with Mega Man and Street Fighter.
That answer could easily lie in one of these possibilities.

1. Capcom doesn't see Phoenix as profitable.
2. More expensive licenses for Ace Attorney compared to Street Fighter and Mega Man.
3. They would prefer a different IP to be the 3rd character for Capcom.

For #3's scenario I think Capcom is aiming for Resident Evil to be the 3rd Capcom IP to get a character.
 

Ayumi Tachibana

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Well if that ballot rumor from a few months ago is true. The 3rd party characters that negoiations failed for 4's DLC ahead of Bayonetta were Snake, Sora, Phoenix Wright, and Bomberman.

https://smashboards.com/threads/ult...everyone-laugh.467706/page-2623#post-23132879
I remember Hideki Kamiya was tweeting something like the producer of Ace Attorney was complaing he didn't get a call for Phoenix Wright in smash when they were drinking.
We already know Inkling couldn't get in Sm4sh because of its mechanics. And this is just my opinion, but all the bombing effects Bomberman could bring might be pretty heavy for 3DS to handle. Snake is not the one as I can tell from the original sentence.
So that leaves Sora and we all know his problem...
 

TMNTSSB4

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That answer could easily lie in one of these possibilities.

1. Capcom doesn't see Phoenix as profitable.
2. More expensive licenses for Ace Attorney compared to Street Fighter and Mega Man.
3. They would prefer a different IP to be the 3rd character for Capcom.

For #3's scenario I think Capcom is aiming for Resident Evil to be the 3rd Capcom IP to get a character.
If it’s Jill Valentine or Chris/Claire Redfield...I can accept and demand for
 

Knight Dude

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I'd prefer Jill if they had to go pick an RE character. Though Leon's also pretty popular, and just the RE2 remake.

There's rumors of RE3 getting a remake, since that game takes place in the same location and time as RE2, but through Jill's perspective.
 

TMNTSSB4

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I'd prefer Jill if they had to go pick an RE character. Though Leon's also pretty popular, and just the RE2 remake.

There's rumors of RE3 getting a remake, since that game takes place in the same location and time as RE2, but through Jill's perspective.
Speaking of Jill...Capcom needs to get her *** back in action (unless she’s retired now)
 

Gimmick-Hater

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If I'm being completely honest, I'm not that excited about the DLC this time around. The characters I want have 0 chances of getting in (Scorpion & Issac from Golden Sun), so I'm just going to sit back & be happy for those who get what they want.

As far as leaks go, Erdrick doesn't really interest me, but Steve from Minecraft sounds neat. I'm honestly interested more in Steve than a character like Banjo when it comes to Microsoft stuff. Mainly because I'm curious to see how Sakurai would translate him to Smash considering the nature of Minecraft character models.
 
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Knight Dude

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If I'm being completely honest, I'm not that excited about the DLC this time around. The characters I want have 0 chances of getting in (Scorpion & Issac from Golden Sun), so I'm just going to sit back & be happy for those who get what they want.

As far as leaks go, Erdrick doesn't really interest me, but Steve from Minecraft sounds neat. I'm honestly interested more in Steve than a character like Banjo when it comes to Microsoft stuff. Mainly because I'm curious to see how Sakurai would translate him to Smash considering the nature of Minecraft character models.
I can understand why you're worried. I'm not a Persona fan at all, so Joker didn't do much for me. And Erdrick, given the rumors and all doesn't either. No one else in particular seems like they're really likely at the moment for me. Well, there's 5 in total, here's to hoping of the characters IS someone you like.

It'd be cool if another Mega Man character pulled a Chrom, or Jin from Tekken got in, or Ryu Hayabusa or an MK ninja between Sub-Zero and Scorpion.
 

TMNTSSB4

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Scorpion in Smash would be the closest (and best) thing to having a Street Fighter X Mortal Kombat game...add in some Tekken and we have the only fighting game the world needs
 

Gimmick-Hater

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Yeah. Scorpion's only chance if Sakurai counts Scorpion showing up in the Japanese version of Injustice. or if Sakurai really likes the old MK games (which were all sold in Japan).
 

TMNTSSB4

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Yeah. Scorpion's only chance if Sakurai counts Scorpion showing up in the Japanese version of Injustice. or if Sakurai really likes the old MK games (which were all sold in Japan).
Better chances than others (past or present)
 

Knight Dude

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I wouldn't say MK is banned from Smash. The ninjas could just take a T-Rated approach to it, like Injustice. The real issue is the lack of a Japanese audience.
 

Wunderwaft

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I guess I failed to get answer should I not or and where to post this in other thread so I'll just throw it in here.
Things I find interesting from Sakurai's book.
- He knows some are serious, but he doesn't think characters like Ironman and Goku will happen. (p27)
- DLC could say shortening the life span of its franchise. For Smash those characters could join in next time. But Smash is also not a title to think about continuation so doing his best every time. (p27)
- He wants Smash to be more casual and see non-competitive tournaments. Smash is a party game. But he also knows he is not the one to plan those. (p31)
- In Smash for days, there was restriction of a time span to offer updates and 3DS had a limited number of times to update. So Wii U version had to do the same. This is why Lucas, Roy, and Ryu released at the same time. (p33)
- If it's a one time purchase type of game, then it's more efficient for the company to start making the next game than keep updating. (p59)
- Updates are normal thing these days, but still they are voluntary service. (p59)
- He always thinks it's important to hear voices from people not speaking up. Real beginners don't speak up. (p61)
- The plan of Smash Ultimate completed December 16th 2015. It's a coincidence, but was the same day of the last Smash for direct. (p63)
- He is not thinking of doing Smash ballot again. It was used in Smash Ultimate's development very much. (p63)
- Beyonetta was the first pick among realisable characters. Above her, there were old veterans like Snake and other characters that were already tried negotiating but got rejected. (p63)
- He was making the plans for Smash Ultimate during the vacation he got after Smash for DLC was done. (p69)
- He treats character's individuality as its own game itself. All the unique systems certain characters has are all newly built just for him/her. (p69)
- It's already had proven true that joining as a character in Smash has advertising effect. (p99)
- He played through beta version of Zelda BotW to the end in 2 days during the Smash Ultimate development because he needed to know how new Link works before anyone else. (p125)
- He thinks games should not be created based on researched data alone and saying games only born to imitate other games are misfortune. Those data should be used for marketings or managements, not to plan new games. Old data are old. (p133)
- (Speaking of Super Nintendo World) 60 billion yen is enough to make every Smash game up to Ultimate and more with couple ten billion of changes. Not many Japanese games have budgets over 10 billion yen. (p139)
- He wish there were Smash Area in Super Nintendo World. (p139)
- Smash Ultimate's DLC wasn't a thing at the time around Famitsu column vol. 546 January 11th 2018, and it was planned without the developers will. (p165)
- DLC developments in general take time, so by the time of the release, the market will be much smaller than it used to be. DLC business is very risky than people might think. (p165)
- They are not something sell that much so it's difficult to gather staffs. Sometimes better to move on to the next game. (p165)
- He is not fond of the idea of the season pass. Its a little scary to buy without knowing the contents. (p165)
- Omega and battlefield for every stages take a lot more work than people might think. (p187)
- HAL Laboratory, Inc. is still on the credits list, but not involved in the development anymore. (p188)
- If you think about the completion of the development, bringing back everyone is not something you should do. (p189)
- The team was very careful of leaks at E3 2018. They didn't use printed promotional materials to avoid leaks. "Everyone is here" wasn't known even in Nintendo so the when it happened Nintendo staffs were also screaming. (p190)
- Smash tend to have characters from older series. But just old characters wouldn't make Smash worthy. If there is no new series, then the selection of the characters will be from the old series. (p199)
- People say "why they can't do this easy stuff?" but there is always a reason for that, One correction could cause another bug. (p205)
- The story idea of World of Light was already existed since Smash Brawl. (p208)
- He doesn't follow internets reaction so didn't know all the fan predictions. (p209)
- The idea of the Spirits is kind of the last resort. He is not sure he'll be making another gameplay like the Spirits. (p211)
- There was a plan to include a map like the Spirits to the Adventure Mode in Smash Melee. (p211)
- He said he took a long vacation, but actually he was just taking breaks as the calendar goes. He has a cat so he can't go for a long trip. (p214)
- By the time of the end of March 2019, the online win ratio of every character are very close to each other at the point he almost thinks better not to change anymore. (p216)
- There are metas, so just certain characters were strong at that time is not good enough reason to make them change. (p216)
This is some very interesting information and gives a bigger perspective in the development of the game. So the DLC was decided without Sakurai's will? We knew Nintendo chose the DLC but we didn't know Sakurai himself was out of the dark as well.
 

Robdelia

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This is some very interesting information and gives a bigger perspective in the development of the game. So the DLC was decided without Sakurai's will? We knew Nintendo chose the DLC but we didn't know Sakurai himself was out of the dark as well.
The way I interpreted it from his tweet and now this is that Nintendo approached him with a big list of characters and then selected five names off of that list as DLC picks. Which explains why Joker got in, considering he shut down the entire theory of "All DLC picks are going to be ad picks for upcoming Switch games/ports"
 

Wunderwaft

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The way I interpreted it from his tweet and now this is that Nintendo approached him with a big list of characters and then selected five names off of that list as DLC picks. Which explains why Joker got in, considering he shut down the entire theory of "All DLC picks are going to be ad picks for upcoming Switch games/ports"
If anything it gives me the feeling that Sakurai had nothing to do with the choices and his only role is to see if he can make a fighter out of the pick or not. The big list is something that isn't mentioned anywhere, and Sakurai's tweet and this recent info show that the higher ups of Nintendo are the ones who chose the DLC and no one else.
 

Knight Dude

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If anything it gives me the feeling that Sakurai had nothing to do with the choices and his only role is to see if he can make a fighter out of the pick or not. The big list is something that isn't mentioned anywhere, and Sakurai's tweet and this recent info show that the higher ups of Nintendo are the ones who chose the DLC and no one else.
Probably. Boy I sure hope some of the Nintendo higher-ups are Mega Man and/or Tekken heads.
 

Idon

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The big list is complete conjecture made by the fanbase to hypothesize a way for Sakurai to have creative control and thus more possibilites.

As far as we know, the only character Sakurai chose personally is Joker as he is a fan of his game.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Please forgive them for not operating in black and white ideals, like you do (even though a lot of GameFAQs users do act like that).
...I give up. Guess I might as well never bring 'em up again. :dk:

The big list is complete conjecture made by the fanbase to hypothesize a way for Sakurai to have creative control and thus more possibilites.

As far as we know, the only character Sakurai chose personally is Joker as he is a fan of his game.
Yeah. We still have no concrete clue of anyone past the first guy (putting aside leak rumors that have yet to be proven true).

Also, I can't help but wonder if the possibility of standalone DLC is more likely now, seeing as he might prefer people to choose on their own terms, and how for the pass he specifically suggested to only buy it if one were confident enough in it.
 
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Door Key Pig

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To think, even with this being a special game where everyone's here and then some, where we're probably good for Smash games for another decade, the man's still like "oh, we could just put in new fighters with the next game instead of as more DLC". Tho with Nintendo's bringing upon the DLC (?) and picking it, would it be their say if they wanted more DLC based on Smash's sales, especially if the datamine slots mean anything??

Like, would everyone view another Fighter's Pass as a reasonable cut-off point for the DLC characters? That might be asking for too much, but it'd give Ultimate a total of 17 or so straight up newcomers, and admittedly a bit more of a chance for desired characters to get in. Though you can't please everyone, as Sakurai is well aware himself, and whatever point of appropriate cut-off for DLC could be subjective.
 

Wunderwaft

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]Also, I can't help but wonder if the possibility of standalone DLC is more likely now, seeing as he might prefer people to choose on their own terms, and how for the pass he specifically suggested to only buy it if one were confident enough in it.
If anything it seems more DLC after the fighters pass is less likely now. From the info that got posted earlier it seems Sakurai isn't a big fan of DLC and he prefers to work on a new game instead.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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To think, even with this being a special game where everyone's here and then some, where we're probably good for Smash games for another decade, the man's still like "oh, we could just put in new fighters with the next game instead of as more DLC". Tho with Nintendo's bringing upon the DLC (?) and picking it, would it be their say if they wanted more DLC based on Smash's sales, especially if the datamine slots mean anything??

Like, would everyone view another Fighter's Pass as a reasonable cut-off point for the DLC characters? That might be asking for too much, but it'd give Ultimate a total of 17 or so straight up newcomers, and admittedly a bit more of a chance for desired characters to get in. Though you can't please everyone, as Sakurai is well aware himself, and whatever point of appropriate cut-off for DLC could be subjective.
I still think a total of 3 passes is the most that can be done within the realm of reason (if not two), depending on whether they'll decide to go the full nine yards with those WOL slots. Anything beyond that's overkill.

At any rate, there were doubts as to whether this game would get DLC at all. Will history repeat itself? Who knows. The answer lies within the aftermath of the pass character #5's release.
 
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Potato_

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If anything it seems more DLC after the fighters pass is less likely now. From the info that got posted earlier it seems Sakurai isn't a big fan of DLC and he prefers to work on a new game instead.
If Sakurai stays on as the head, then I'd agree with this view. It'd essentially be the same as what happened with Smash 4.

If this is his last smash though (and to be fair he's been saying this since Melee), then all bets are off.
 

TMNTSSB4

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I wouldn't say MK is banned from Smash. The ninjas could just take a T-Rated approach to it, like Injustice. The real issue is the lack of a Japanese audience.
Hasn’t stopped someone like Dark Samus from getting in, though she’s a very rare character
This is some very interesting information and gives a bigger perspective in the development of the game. So the DLC was decided without Sakurai's will? We knew Nintendo chose the DLC but we didn't know Sakurai himself was out of the dark as well.
He may have been happy about getting to work on Joker at the least
If Sakurai stays on as the head, then I'd agree with this view. It'd essentially be the same as what happened with Smash 4.

If this is his last smash though (and to be fair he's been saying this since Melee), then all bets are off.
I think he’d stay with the Smash life, but would be in a Nick Fury role (have others do all the work) so that he can finally learn how to rest (almost typed in “read” as if he was Pit)
 

Icedragonadam

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If Sakurai stays on as the head, then I'd agree with this view. It'd essentially be the same as what happened with Smash 4.

If this is his last smash though (and to be fair he's been saying this since Melee), then all bets are off.
I'm curious to know what a season pass or a base game roster would look like without Sakurai's input.
 

Koopaul

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- If you think about the completion of the development, bringing back everyone is not something you should do. (p189)
This and other statements Sakurai has made reaffirms my belief that this will be the only time we will have a Smash with every past character in it.
 

Door Key Pig

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If Sakurai stays on as the head, then I'd agree with this view. It'd essentially be the same as what happened with Smash 4.

If this is his last smash though (and to be fair he's been saying this since Melee), then all bets are off.
Tbf, was Smash 4's thing also because of the Wii U's looking end and Ultimate's plan? Speaking of which, would Fighter Pass/DLC sales help determine the decision for future DLC? Because they'd have to decide half way through or so if they wanted to keep momentum going.
 

Wunderwaft

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This and other statements Sakurai has made reaffirms my belief that this will be the only time we will have a Smash with every past character in it.
That's how it looks like. Jeez it seems the speculation for the next game will be quite harsh and full of wondering who will get cut.
 

TMNTSSB4

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This and other statements Sakurai has made reaffirms my belief that this will be the only time we will have a Smash with every past character in it.
And having all these characters back together for their own kind of Endgame was worth it. Though for now we get to enjoy everyone together, next game speculation is gonna be a real doozy not knowing who’ll get cut or changed in some way
 

Icedragonadam

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And having all these characters back together for their own kind of Endgame was worth it. Though for now we get to enjoy everyone together, next game speculation is gonna be a real doozy not knowing who’ll get cut or changed in some way
Cloud and Erdrick(or whoever the 2nd SE character is) is obviously the most likely to get cut due to the evidence of how difficult it was to get Cloud back in Ultimate.
 

PeridotGX

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I saw a lot of people making perfect rosters and I decided I'd try my hand at it.
massive roster.png
obviously this has way too many characters to be reasonable, but I think it would satisfy almost everyone.

thoughts?
 
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