Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Potato_]

This and other statements Sakurai has made reaffirms my belief that this will be the only time we will have a Smash with every past character in it.

The whole "This smash is a very special thing" he kept repeating during pre-release kind of cemented that in my mind. It makes sense though, after DLC this roster will be 75 characters, more if you include Echoes. It isn't feasible to keep everyone.

Makes you wonder what direction they'll go with the sequel.

 

[Knight Dude]

I saw a lot of people making perfect rosters and I decided I'd try my hand at it.

View attachment 224348​

obviously this has way too many characters to be reasonable, but I think it would satisfy almost everyone.

thoughts?

It's got Protoman, Bomberman, Mega Man and Scorpion, so I'm about it. Not to mention a few others I like.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I saw a lot of people making perfect rosters and I decided I'd try my hand at it.

View attachment 224348​

obviously this has way too many characters to be reasonable, but I think it would satisfy almost everyone.

thoughts?

May I inquire the software used to create this? I think I might want to try my hand at it too.

 

[Robdelia]

I'm of the mindset that almost every character in the game is safe from roster cuts.
Every roster cut in the series has either been due to lack of time (forbidden seven in Brawl being the biggest example), technical issues caused by Smash 4 3DS, replacement by another character (Young Link to Toon Link). or licensing issues. Assuming the next game is a rebranded port of Ultimate with a new name, mechanics and newcomers, then three of those issues will not exist because, well, Everyone is Here.
The models for every character are here and updated to HD standards, along with the movesets and animations (I.E. why Wolf didn't come back in 4 IMO). Sakurai even commented that every character seems to be balanced judging by their win rate online, so balancing doesn't seem to be an issue either. Nintendo owns the first party reps too, so there's no issues with licensing. Time is no longer an issue and neither is technical limitations.
Where it gets tricky is third parties, although frankly, I think Sega/Capcom/Namco reps are safe. Konami too given how hard they went with Castlevania, but Snake was cut from 4 under similar situations.
Sakurai saying " 'Everyone is Here' is a miracle and will probably only happen this one time" to me means "Cloud's getting cut ASAP so say goodbye while you still can lmao"

 

[Idon]

I await the day when Shin Megami Tensei finally gets enough clout to be put on some fan-polls.

Until that day however...

Yeesh.

Still though, at least Dante's gotten back into the spotlight after the disaster that was DmC 2013

 

[Wunderwaft]

I'm of the mindset that almost every character in the game is safe from roster cuts.
Every roster cut in the series has either been due to lack of time (forbidden seven in Brawl being the biggest example), technical issues caused by Smash 4 3DS, replacement by another character (Young Link to Toon Link). or licensing issues. Assuming the next game is a rebranded port of Ultimate with a new name, mechanics and newcomers, then three of those issues will not exist because, well, Everyone is Here.
The models for every character are here and updated to HD standards, along with the movesets and animations (I.E. why Wolf didn't come back in 4 IMO). Sakurai even commented that every character seems to be balanced judging by their win rate online, so balancing doesn't seem to be an issue either. Nintendo owns the first party reps too, so there's no issues with licensing. Time is no longer an issue and neither is technical limitations.
Where it gets tricky is third parties, although frankly, I think Sega/Capcom/Namco reps are safe. Konami too given how hard they went with Castlevania, but Snake was cut from 4 under similar situations.
Sakurai saying " 'Everyone is Here' is a miracle and will probably only happen this one time" to me means "Cloud's getting cut ASAP so say goodbye while you still can lmao"

I really am going to miss Cloud if he gets cut in the next game. And if Erdrick comes in the fighters pass then he will probably be cut in the next game. I do not see a scenario where Cloud is cut while any other SE character remains. Cloud is literally the bridge bringing the two companies together, with him gone so will Square Enix as well.

 

[Robdelia]

I really am going to miss Cloud if he gets cut in the next game. And if Erdrick comes in the fighters pass then he will probably be cut in the next game. I do not see a scenario where Cloud is cut while any other SE character remains. Cloud is literally the bridge bringing the two companies together, with him gone so will Square Enix as well.

His heavily-foreshadowed cut is the reason I don't think Erdrick or any Square rep is going to be DLC tbh. Considering how much Nintendo and Sora Limited paid to keep him in and the outcry over Snake's cut in 4, I think they're aware of picking characters that are future-proofed for more Smash games.

 

[Door Key Pig]

And having all these characters back together for their own kind of Endgame was worth it. Though for now we get to enjoy everyone together, next game speculation is gonna be a real doozy not knowing who’ll get cut or changed in some way

Endgame story-wise or?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Sakurai saying " 'Everyone is Here' is a miracle and will probably only happen this one time" to me means "Cloud's getting cut ASAP so say goodbye while you still can lmao"

Pretty much. SE has enough licensing red tape to go through just to reobtain the same guy from before, and even then Nomura's artwork wasn't able to be used for spirits. If we even get a second SE rep at all, it would take a planetary alignment for it to have happened.

 

[Robdelia]

Pretty much. SE has enough licensing red tape to go through just to reobtain the same guy from before, and even then Nomura's artwork wasn't able to be used for spirits. If we even get a second SE rep at all, it would take a planetary alignment for it to have happened.

Agreed. As much as I would love to have Slime or Sora or any other Final Fantasy rep (give me Black Mage please) I just really don't think it's happening unless Square-Enix cleans up their act massively.

 

[cmbsfm]

The characters that were rejected were probably Ironman and Goku

 

[Knight Dude]

I await the day when Shin Megami Tensei finally gets enough clout to be put on some fan-polls.

Until that day however...
View attachment 224361
Yeesh.

Still though, at least Dante's gotten back into the spotlight after the disaster that was DmC 2013

R.I.P Nightmare, Lower than Mickey Mouse, but I guess that makes more sense. Disney takes more souls than Soul Edge could ever dream of.

 

[Idon]

R.I.P Nightmare, Lower than Mickey Mouse, but I guess that makes more sense. Disney takes more souls than Soul Edge could ever dream of.

One's a soulless puppet used by an ancient unknowable powerful entity and the other's just a dude with a sword.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Cloud and Erdrick(or whoever the 2nd SE character is) is obviously the most likely to get cut due to the evidence of how difficult it was to get Cloud back in Ultimate.

Weirdly I can’t help but instantly point towards Cloud as someone who’ll get cut, and maybe the Konami boys depending on how the company is down the road. Most of the echoes I can see being alts like Daisy and Lucina (even though them being solo is better)...yet not Pittoo due to possible Sakurai bias (that and I don’t think he would want him celebrating like Pit again)

Endgame story-wise or?

Story wise Smash Ultimate would be both Infinity War and Endgame, but only Endgame when it comes to having everyone there for the fun

 

[Captain Shades]

Honestly, I’m expecting massive cuts for the next game, like a total rebrand.

I truly believe that Smash needs a restart which seems to be the next step for the series. I do not hate Ultimate, but let’s be honest, many of the older characters (particularly pre-Brawl) are pretty outdated in design, still harboring moves from games we’ve since moved on from. Even character designs are particularly outdated in many cases or just wrong due to Sakurai’s strict vision of who and what certain characters are.

I think some big examples are...

Mario - Still uses the cape and F.L.U.D.D. along with being a lot angrier than usual
Kirby - Still tied to Super Star in almost every way barring a few victory animations and FS
Sonic - Is only ball attacks, no boost or literally anything else? Just the cheap, time saver Brawl animations
Wario - Literally lacks any references to games
Ganondorf - self explanatory
Peach - Basic damsel in distress parody, but neglects a ton of stuff Peach does in the games
Luigi - why? Just why? No Mansion, just him being the strange brother?
Lucina - Easily could be decloned
Bowser - Lacks any goofy charm, still uses generic animal noises
Etc...


I think Smash should go through a bit of an overhaul, limit the roster to 24 or something and build back up with more updated designs.

If I had to guess, we’ll probably be limited to 12 Nintendo franchises at the start, with the major Nintendo franchises taking priority. I feel the guaranteed returning franchises will be Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, Kirby, Splatoon, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Metroid, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Star Fox, and either Pikmin or Xenoblade.

I can’t say why, but an overhaul and retooling of the series seems like the next and probably best decision for the franchise. Ultimate feels like the end of two decades worth of work and a good send off to the Sakurai era. Adding on top just feels weird, this is the conclusion the series has built up to, so it should get a new beginning.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Honestly, I’m expecting massive cuts for the next game, like a total rebrand.

I truly believe that Smash needs a restart which seems to be the next step for the series. I do not hate Ultimate, but let’s be honest, many of the older characters (particularly pre-Brawl) are pretty outdated in design, still harboring moves from games we’ve since moved on from. Even character designs are particularly outdated in many cases or just wrong due to Sakurai’s strict vision of who and what certain characters are.

I think some big examples are...

Mario - Still uses the cape and F.L.U.D.D. along with being a lot angrier than usual
Kirby - Still tied to Super Star in almost every way barring a few victory animations and FS
Sonic - Is only ball attacks, no boost or literally anything else? Just the cheap, time saver Brawl animations
Wario - Literally lacks any references to games
Ganondorf - self explanatory
Peach - Basic damsel in distress parody, but neglects a ton of stuff Peach does in the games
Luigi - why? Just why? No Mansion, just him being the strange brother?
Lucina - Easily could be decloned
Bowser - Lacks any goofy charm, still uses generic animal noises
Etc...


I think Smash should go through a bit of an overhaul, limit the roster to 24 or something and build back up with more updated designs.

If I had to guess, we’ll probably be limited to 12 Nintendo franchises at the start, with the major Nintendo franchises taking priority. I feel the guaranteed returning franchises will be Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, Kirby, Splatoon, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Metroid, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Star Fox, and either Pikmin or Xenoblade.

I can’t say why, but an overhaul and retooling of the series seems like the next and probably best decision for the franchise. Ultimate feels like the end of two decades worth of work and a good send off to the Sakurai era. Adding on top just feels weird, this is the conclusion the series has built up to, so it should get a new beginning.

Problem is though is that the potential reboot will have a really big shoe size to fill. Ultimate just set the bar for Smash so incredibly high especially when all of the DLC characters will be known. The gameplay will have to be really different from Ultimate IMO to not get a lot of scorn.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Finally, some interesting bits to speculate on with Sakurai's book and the poll rumor.

It has been far too long since any info worth speculating came to place.

Maybe I should turn on my speculation noggin again tomorrow morning.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm probably the only person who wouldn't mind a couple of cuts.

May I inquire the software used to create this? I think I might want to try my hand at it too.

Look up the roster maker, it has a thread on this same website.

Honestly, I’m expecting massive cuts for the next game, like a total rebrand.

I truly believe that Smash needs a restart which seems to be the next step for the series. I do not hate Ultimate, but let’s be honest, many of the older characters (particularly pre-Brawl) are pretty outdated in design, still harboring moves from games we’ve since moved on from. Even character designs are particularly outdated in many cases or just wrong due to Sakurai’s strict vision of who and what certain characters are.

I think some big examples are...

Mario - Still uses the cape and F.L.U.D.D. along with being a lot angrier than usual
Kirby - Still tied to Super Star in almost every way barring a few victory animations and FS
Sonic - Is only ball attacks, no boost or literally anything else? Just the cheap, time saver Brawl animations
Wario - Literally lacks any references to games
Ganondorf - self explanatory
Peach - Basic damsel in distress parody, but neglects a ton of stuff Peach does in the games
Luigi - why? Just why? No Mansion, just him being the strange brother?
Lucina - Easily could be decloned
Bowser - Lacks any goofy charm, still uses generic animal noises
Etc...


I think Smash should go through a bit of an overhaul, limit the roster to 24 or something and build back up with more updated designs.

If I had to guess, we’ll probably be limited to 12 Nintendo franchises at the start, with the major Nintendo franchises taking priority. I feel the guaranteed returning franchises will be Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, Kirby, Splatoon, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Metroid, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Star Fox, and either Pikmin or Xenoblade.

I can’t say why, but an overhaul and retooling of the series seems like the next and probably best decision for the franchise. Ultimate feels like the end of two decades worth of work and a good send off to the Sakurai era. Adding on top just feels weird, this is the conclusion the series has built up to, so it should get a new beginning.

Honestly that sounds like a terrible decision. Why reboot? Smash Ultimate isn't a conclusion, there's still room to grow.

 

[Idon]

Listen I'm just saying I wouldn't be too teary eyed to see Doctor Mario or Pichu or the Mii Fighters go if it means more characters.

 

[Zinith]

It's been a while since I posted on this thread. Anyways, Poochy and Boshi for Smash

 

[Knight Dude]

Listen I'm just saying I wouldn't be too teary eyed to see Doctor Mario or Pichu or the Mii Fighters go if it means more characters.

Chances are next game's gonna be a more Marvel 3 situation. But I'd rather wait for the DLC to be done before sniping out characters for the next game.

 

[Wunderwaft]

lol it's only ten years away for the next Smash game and we're already speculating about who is gonna get cut in the next game. Might as well chime in.
I honestly have no idea if the third party characters are gonna return in the next game, it depends on the parent company and their relationship with Nintendo. First Party is fair game though, copyright isn't a problem and we can reasonably deduct who might get cut. Assuming the next game is made by a new director, I can probably see Palutena getting cut unless a new Kid Icarus game is made during the coming ten years.

Who do the rest of you think isn't gonna make it in the next game?

 

[Koopaul]

Assuming the next game is a rebranded port of Ultimate with a new name, mechanics and newcomers, then three of those issues will not exist because, well, Everyone is Here.

Do you really think that in 6 to 7 years when the next game is made, they'll just port it to their brand new console? I highly doubt it. In 6 to 7 years people will want a new game.

The main reason why this game was even possible is because it was made off the heels of Smash 4. Sakurai had the same team available from the Wii U which he said greatly helped in making this game. Usually he sort of has to start over each time he makes a new Smash because of that. The Switch is also not that big of a jump from the Wii U graphically. But the next Nintendo console might be a bit more of a jump and Smash would have to keep up. Smash Ultimate will look dated in 2025, a port is really unlikely.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Honestly, I’m expecting massive cuts for the next game, like a total rebrand.

I truly believe that Smash needs a restart which seems to be the next step for the series. I do not hate Ultimate, but let’s be honest, many of the older characters (particularly pre-Brawl) are pretty outdated in design, still harboring moves from games we’ve since moved on from. Even character designs are particularly outdated in many cases or just wrong due to Sakurai’s strict vision of who and what certain characters are.

I think some big examples are...

Mario - Still uses the cape and F.L.U.D.D. along with being a lot angrier than usual
Kirby - Still tied to Super Star in almost every way barring a few victory animations and FS
Sonic - Is only ball attacks, no boost or literally anything else? Just the cheap, time saver Brawl animations
Wario - Literally lacks any references to games
Ganondorf - self explanatory
Peach - Basic damsel in distress parody, but neglects a ton of stuff Peach does in the games
Luigi - why? Just why? No Mansion, just him being the strange brother?
Lucina - Easily could be decloned
Bowser - Lacks any goofy charm, still uses generic animal noises
Etc...

I think Smash should go through a bit of an overhaul, limit the roster to 24 or something and build back up with more updated designs.

If I had to guess, we’ll probably be limited to 12 Nintendo franchises at the start, with the major Nintendo franchises taking priority. I feel the guaranteed returning franchises will be Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, Kirby, Splatoon, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Metroid, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Star Fox, and either Pikmin or Xenoblade.

I can’t say why, but an overhaul and retooling of the series seems like the next and probably best decision for the franchise. Ultimate feels like the end of two decades worth of work and a good send off to the Sakurai era. Adding on top just feels weird, this is the conclusion the series has built up to, so it should get a new beginning.

It’d be easier to just make sequels and cut out/make alts out of some characters instead of a flat out reboot

Listen I'm just saying I wouldn't be too teary eyed to see Doctor Mario or Pichu or the Mii Fighters go if it means more characters.

Doc I’d miss the big boy stomp and yeet back throw
Pichu is too pure to leave
Mii beings Memes...and Viridi

Now losing someone like Cloud wouldn’t be a big deal since SE were likely the guys who almost made Ultimate’s goal impossible, and Richter/Young Link...maybe

 

[Idon]

lol it's only ten years away for the next Smash game and we're already speculating about who is gonna get cut in the next game. Might as well chime in.
I honestly have no idea if the third party characters are gonna return in the next game, it depends on the parent company and their relationship with Nintendo. First Party is fair game though, copyright isn't a problem and we can reasonably deduct who might get cut. Assuming the next game is made by a new director, I can probably see Palutena getting cut unless a new Kid Icarus game is made during the coming ten years.

Who do the rest of you think isn't gonna make it in the next game?

Well I can't say who for certain's going to get cut or carry over, but I can think of a few characters that would most likely be low priority if Nintendo wants to free up resources to develop more newcomers and not rely on using its resources to bring back everyone and resort to creating echoes to pad out the roster.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Well I can't say who for certain's going to get cut or carry over, but I can think of a few characters that would most likely be low priority if Nintendo wants to free up resources to develop more newcomers and not rely on using its resources to bring back everyone and resort to creating echoes to pad out the roster.

Interesting list
Although I don't think R.O.B would be low priority. R.O.B, G&W, and Wii Fit are a special kind of characters that represent different parts of Nintendo history. I doubt one would be more important than the other.

 

[Idon]

Interesting list
Although I don't think R.O.B would be low priority. R.O.B, G&W, and Wii Fit are a special kind of characters that represent different parts of Nintendo history. I doubt one would be more important than the other.

Eh, that's true, it's representative of something, but I can't help but feel like the character itself and the games it is a part of aren't... actually liked.

It feels like the reason people like it is due to it being a weird Smash Bros character and the representation of Nintendo toys and superfluous add-on hardware is a bonus side of trivia.

Granted, it's probably not low priority. That was a lapse in judgement on my part.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Well I can't say who for certain's going to get cut or carry over, but I can think of a few characters that would most likely be low priority if Nintendo wants to free up resources to develop more newcomers and not rely on using its resources to bring back everyone and resort to creating echoes to pad out the roster.

With out popular Lucina and Chrom are, I can’t see them getting cut...and Dark Pit gets the Sakurai pass

Same with the Sega and Capcom characters (Pac-Man also...but I left him out since he’s lonely)

 

[Koopaul]

I honestly feel like because people will be upset over anyone being cut that they might just have to reboot the series.

That means even characters like Mario are going to work completely different. This is just a theory. But why would anyone accept another Smash Bros game with their beloved fighter cut after Everyon is Here? Well don't even make that game. Do something completely new.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I honestly feel like because people will be upset over anyone being cut that they might just have to reboot the series.

That means even characters like Mario are going to work completely different. This is just a theory. But why would anyone accept another Smash Bros game with their beloved fighter cut after Everyon is Here? Well don't even make that game. Do something completely new.

I hear this sentiment always repeated, but is a complete reboot really the next path for Smash?
A lot of people enjoy this series because of the crossover concept, and these people would lose interest if the roster is less than half of Ultimate.

 

[Knight Dude]

Hey, for anyone left, I've made a Geo Stelar/Star Force Mega Man moveset in the 2nd Mega Man character thread.

When it comes to direct speculation, I'm not holding my breath they'll be added(another Mega Man that is), but it could be cool if it happened. If there's any moveset thread open I'll put it there as well tomorrow.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I honestly feel like because people will be upset over anyone being cut that they might just have to reboot the series.

That means even characters like Mario are going to work completely different. This is just a theory. But why would anyone accept another Smash Bros game with their beloved fighter cut after Everyon is Here? Well don't even make that game. Do something completely new.

If people get upset about cuts, how is cutting nearly everyone better than cutting just a few characters?

 

[Koopaul]

If people get upset about cuts, how is cutting nearly everyone better than cutting just a few characters?

What I'm saying is make Smash brand new again. You aren't cutting anyone from a game that is starting over.

I mean everything would have to be different. A different look. Different mechanics. A different standard. You won't be thinking about cuts because this game would be so different from past Smash games.

 

[Idon]

What I'm saying is make Smash brand new again. You aren't cutting anyone from a game that is starting over.

I mean everything would have to be different. A different look. Different mechanics. A different standard. You won't be thinking about cuts because this game would be so different from past Smash games.

At that point, you'd be better off removing "Smash" from the title or changing the title to differentiate the games.

Even if it's a good game, titles carry some certain baggage and fans don't like drastic changes like that. It's one of the main reasons Metal Gear Solid: Rising was changed to Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance.

 

[Ornl]

I await the day when Shin Megami Tensei finally gets enough clout to be put on some fan-polls.

View attachment 224361

Why are the names in each column arranged in alphabetical order?

 

[Idon]

Why are the names in each column arranged in alphabetical order?

I suppose in the case of tied votes alphabetical order takes precdence. And also that it's a sourcegaming poll and as such applies only really to people that are aware of sourcegaming.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Again, even with this being such a rare title, Sakurai seems kind of content with leaving some DLC off the table and instead waiting for the next game, no matter how far away and different that could be. I guess "don't expect too many new challengers" could have been taken to heart even for DLC? Maybe their view of satisfaction with newcomers is different from what ours might be?

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I honestly feel like because people will be upset over anyone being cut that they might just have to reboot the series.

That means even characters like Mario are going to work completely different. This is just a theory. But why would anyone accept another Smash Bros game with their beloved fighter cut after Everyon is Here? Well don't even make that game. Do something completely new.

I honestly would like this too.
Maybe there won't be many actual newcomers, but every character would play as a new one, so the game would feel very different compared to the previous ones, new mechanics and all, and every character, even the veterans, would feel like newcomers.
As Captain Shades said, the moveset of some characters is outdated and don't represent the modern image the character is promoted with.
i'm all for it, and I wouldn't mind giving up to all my most wanted characters if Smash gets such a reboot to improve and refresh the gameplay, give the game a more solid identity and a more coherent and consistent presentation.

Think of games such as Mario Kart or other Mario party/sport games... the roster is made up from scratch each time and occasionally some characters (even important ones) are cut or are given the role of NPC. Nobody seem to make a big deal of that... maybe building up the whole marketing of Smash around characters and hype wasn't a good idea in the first place? Maybe it's also the reason for the toxicity of some parts of the fanbase, and the situation would be way nicer if there wasn't this obsession toward characters and series representation, if only they went more easy with that aspect.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that the community was spoiled rotten by the decision to bring back every past veteran. The sheer size and scale of Ultimate has made it a lot harder for the community to accept a reboot with a smaller roster.

 

[Robdelia]

Considering Sakurai referred to "Everyone is Here" as the Pandora's Box of the series, I think he knows too that there's not really anywhere to go but up. “I question what we’ll do with the next title, and I feel that having ‘all characters playable’ may have been a Pandora’s Box that could ruin possibilities for what’s next in the series.”
You cut Pichu or Young Link or Ice Climbers? You got people upset that these characters are gone. The next game is a reboot and has a significantly smaller roster than Ultimate? People are just gonna stick with Ultimate. This isn't even bringing up that it is possible to declone characters and make them more unique without rebooting the entire series (Luigi in Melee, Falco in Brawl).
A lot of Ultimate's dev time was spent future-proofing characters for the next game, so cutting any of them for reasons other than third party issues make zero sense, would be a waste of the work they did to bring those characters back, and would just end up making people angry.