Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[GalacticPetey]

Tried my hand at a big "complete" roster, whatever that means. It was moreso an experiment of a roster of exactly 100 (counting Trainer as three).

 

[Ovaltine]

I have a problem with most of these rosters, and no, it's not because of a lack of Banjo, Geno, or even Shadow.

...

Where the heck is my MAIN MAN SANDBAG, EH?!

 

[Deleted member]

There are a lot of popular Pokèmon though, popularity is not the only factor that should be considered. You know, those pokèmon are popular because of Smash, if you put a new pokèmon in Smash, that new one will become popular too. I just think it's worthless to keep the roster full of old pokèmon if they aren't meaningful to the franchise aside of being popular because of being in smash.

Pokemon are more meaningful to their franchise than most Zelda characters, a lot of characters from Zelda stopped being important since long ago while Pokemon still are available and playable in their games. One of your arguments for Midna was ****ing popularity for god's sake.

-Impa appears in a big amount of Zelda games, and she's a way better representant of the Sheikah than Sheik is, who appears in just one game.
She's not really a newcomer in my roster, I replaced Sheik because I think Impa is more important and can use the same moveset.
-Ganon is the main villain and a classic character. He appeared (with that specific design) in Zelda 1, Zelda 2, A Link to the Past, Link's Awakening (cameo), Oracles linked, Four Sword Adventure, and A Link Between Worlds; way more than Ganondorf did, and the fact that he appeared in the series' original games make him a deserving character by default.
-Tetra is basically Toon Sheik. The big difference with Sheik, is that Tetra has been used for promotional arts many times, and IMO is the best character to represent the Toon side of the franchise (as I said, I would cut Toon Link for her).
-Tingle has been an important charater in the series for many years. He even got some spin-off games starring as the main character; in occident, only one of those games came out, but in Japan it had a sequel and a Balloon Fight reskin with Tingle came out on DS as well. Now he's not much relevant anymore, but just like King K Rool, it doesn't matter much as long as he has an history.

Midna is the only character that I added "for the sake of it", because she is popular and because the wolf can have unique gameplay. I can Remove Young Link, Toon Link and Midna form the list if you prefer, but the other characters all make sense IMO.

If you put the Zelda characters under your same arguments for Pokemon, you would have to cut most of them due to not being relevant since years ago.

I said there are exceptions. I think "everyone is here" is stupid for Pokèmon because there are countless new pokèmon each gen and if you keep them all you either will end with 100 pokèmon in the roster or you will need to avoid adding new ones because there are already too many (both cases are bad).
Unique or not, I'm convinced that pokèmon is better to be refreshed, and I'm sure that some day it will inevitably be.
I have cut Little Mac for the moveset, not for being unimportant. I think he has a very weak and boring moveset, and the KO move is cheap. He's the only character cut for this reason, by the way.

Master Chief is more of a "Mascotte" than Snake is though. Also the art style of Halo is more fitting: the armors of the spartans are colorful, and so are the weapons and vehicles they use (especially the alien ones), and they all have original and iconic designs; this IMO make him and the franchise overall fit better with the roster full of cartoony characters. Snake on the other hand looks like a realistic soldier who uses realistic weapons.

If the moveset for Little Mac is a problem, revamping before cutting is a better idea, a lot of the characters that you cut for other ones dont give repleacements for the archetypes (i.e. Incineroar for Wrestler).

Your idea to cut Pokemon because they are too many and will keep increasing but don't have any issue with Zelda or Mario, leaves a lot to be desired. Either follow the rule with everyone or discard it completely.

Snake seems cartoony for me when you add the elements of hiding in a box, plus MC is from a game with little to no comedy elements compared to Snake where you have a lot of over the top situations. Even without Snake you removed Pac-man which is arguably cartoony.

Lastly, I dont think this conversation is going anywhere since you are not open to accept criticism especially since Pokemon IMO offers some of the most unique fighters in the game already. I just leave the message that the variety of different fighters from different backgrounds, styles and genres give Smash its identity. So I'll sign out.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I don't trust myself to cut any characters from the roster without nettling any fans of those characters, so I'll just reshare my wishlist now that I've finally updated one of my vectors.

 

[Gameboi834]

Looking at all these rosters makes me wish we could change the order of the CSS to be based on series rather than Smash inclusion

 

[3BitSaurus]

You know, this talk about Frogger and the Funko miniature rendition earlier made me think: how would you guys feel if he was Konami's "Pac-Man"? As in, a character that basically represents the company's arcade era games in their moveset?

I think Twinbee might also fit into that role, but thar lil'briefcase of Frogger's has me wondering...

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Snake seems cartoony for me when you add the elements of hiding in a box, plus MC is from a game with little to no comedy elements compared to Snake where you have a lot of over the top situations. Even without Snake you removed Pac-man which is arguably cartoony.

I didn't, Pac-man is in my roster.

Lastly, I dont think this conversation is going anywhere since you are not open to accept criticism especially since Pokemon IMO offers some of the most unique fighters in the game already. I just leave the message that the variety of different fighters from different backgrounds, styles and genres give Smash its identity. So I'll sign out.

No problem, I agree that this discussion is going nowhere.
Anyway it's not that I don't accept criticism, it's that I'm trying to explain what I did but you seem to dismiss anything I say whatever I say.

I explained already that I didn't want to put too many characters in the roster, and you keep saying that I shouldn't cut characters. If you don't cut characters, you can't add new ones without increasing the amount; if you want to add new characters without increasing the amount, you have to cut some.
My goal was to not increase the amount of characters too much, and you can't have that without cuts.

 

[Wunderwaft]

We've sidetracked a bit with dream rosters but uh...
Everyone has their own tastes and opinions on which characters should get in Smash. There is no objective way to decide who truly deserves to get in or not. Sure we can talk about legacy and sales and whatnot, but lesser video game series have gotten in Smash while their impact on gaming is arguably negligible. It's ultimately up to the director of the game to decide who gets in, and even the directer isn't perfect and has their own bias as well. So relax everyone, we all have our own idea of what Smash's roster should look like, but it doesn't mean it's the right and correct one because such a thing doesn't exist.

 

[Robdelia]

Personally I don't see Shadow Mario, Loui, Hilda and Miss Pacman happening and I Linda expect Zero over Protoman.

Beyond that it looks really cool. I like how Lucina is a Chrom echo in this version

Shadow Mario was mainly because in this hypothetical game, both regular Mario and Dr Mario are heavily re-designed, so I needed one character in there who had the classic Mario moveset.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I asked this a fair while back to Reddit and would like to ask somewhere, but am unsure if it should go in general discussion, here, or warrants its own thread: Which character do you want the most that you would want in the game in any form (hypothetical DLC assist, Mii Costume, Spirit, hypothetical DLC boss, etc.), and are there any characters who you would only want in as playable?

Kyo Kusanagi as a playable character. Having the protagonist from the series that Smash borrows mechanics and modes from in Smash makes sense, imo; Sakurai is also a Fighting GameHEAD too. Either him or another SNK rep like Terry Bogard would do, tbh.


Playable Lyn would be amazing too, if only because she'd be the one of the few Fire Emblem characters most people would be okay with being in.

 

[Arcadenik]

Wouldn't be surprised if we get a Contra Mii Gunner outfit down the road.

I would love to see that! I also would love to see many third-party characters as Mii costumes since most of them probably won't get in anyway.

Spoiler

Capcom Mii costumes

1. Akuma (Super Street Fighter II Turbo)
2. Arthur (Ghosts 'n Goblins)
   
3. Bass (Mega Man 7)
4. Cammy (Super Street Fighter II)
   
5. Chris Redfield (Resident Evil)
   
6. Chun-Li (Street Fighter II)
   
7. Guile (Street Fighter II)
   
8. Hunter (Monster Hunter)
9. Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
   
10. Leon Kennedy (Resident Evil 4)
    
11. MegaMan.EXE (Mega Man Battle Network)
12. Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney)
    
13. Proto Man (Mega Man 3)
14. Rathalos (Monster Hunter)
    
15. Sakura (Street Fighter Alpha 2)
    
16. X (Mega Man X)
17. Zero (Mega Man X)

Konami Mii costumes

1. Alucard (Castlevania: Symphony of the Night)
2. Bill Rizer (Contra)
3. Bomberman (Bomberman)
4. Bonk (Bonk's Adventure)
5. Goemon (The Legend of the Mystical Ninja)
6. Master Higgins (Adventure Island)
7. Pyramid Head (Silent Hill)
   
8. Soma Cruz (Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow)

Namco Mii costumes

1. Dig Dug (Dig Dug)
2. Gil (The Tower of Druga)
3. Heihachi Mishima (Tekken)
4. King (Tekken)
5. Klonoa (Klonoa)
   
6. Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)
   
7. Mappy (Mappy)
   
8. Nightmare (SoulCalibur)
   
9. Valkyrie (Valkyrie no Densetsu)

Sega Mii costumes

1. Akira Yuri (Virtua Fighter)
2. Alex Kidd (Alex Kidd in Miracle World)
3. Blaze Fielding (Streets of Rage)
   
4. Gilius Thunderhead (Golden Axe)
   
5. Jack Frost (Shin Megami Tensei)
6. Jacky Bryant (Virtua Fighter 5)
   
7. Knuckles (Sonic the Hedgehog 3)
8. Nights (Nights into Dreams)
   
9. Persona 3 Protagonist
10. Persona 4 Protagonist
11. Tails (Sonic the Hedgehog 2)
12. Wonder Boy / Wonder Girl (Wonder Boy: The Dragon's Trap)

Square Enix Mii costumes (let's just fantasize for a minute that Square Enix is far more generous that they actually are)

1. Black Mage (Mario Sports Mix)
2. Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV)
3. Crono (Chrono Trigger)
   
4. Dragon Quest Builders Hero / Heroine
5. Dragon Quest VIII Hero
6. Dragon Quest XI Hero
7. Dragonlord (Dragon Quest)
8. Geno (Super Mario RPG)
9. Mallow (Super Mario RPG)
   
10. Randi (Secret of Mana)
    
11. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
    
12. Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI)
    
13. White Mage (Mario Sports Mix)

 

[BluePikmin11]

You know, this talk about Frogger and the Funko miniature rendition earlier made me think: how would you guys feel if he was Konami's "Pac-Man"? As in, a character that basically represents the company's arcade era games in their moveset?

I think Twinbee might also fit into that role, but thar lil'briefcase of Frogger's has me wondering...

This sounds like a really cool idea. Though honestly, there’s enough in the Frogger game to make some solid special moves out of. But i would not mind this either.

 

[Leotsune]

I would love to see that! I also would love to see many third-party characters as Mii costumes since most of them probably won't get in anyway.

Spoiler

Capcom Mii costumes

1. Akuma (Super Street Fighter II Turbo)
2. Arthur (Ghosts 'n Goblins)
   
3. Bass (Mega Man 7)
4. Cammy (Super Street Fighter II)
   
5. Chris Redfield (Resident Evil)
   
6. Chun-Li (Street Fighter II)
   
7. Guile (Street Fighter II)
   
8. Hunter (Monster Hunter)
9. Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
   
10. Leon Kennedy (Resident Evil 4)
    
11. MegaMan.EXE (Mega Man Battle Network)
12. Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney)
    
13. Proto Man (Mega Man 3)
14. Rathalos (Monster Hunter)
    
15. Sakura (Street Fighter Alpha 2)
    
16. X (Mega Man X)
17. Zero (Mega Man X)

Konami Mii costumes

1. Alucard (Castlevania: Symphony of the Night)
2. Bill Rizer (Contra)
3. Bomberman (Bomberman)
4. Bonk (Bonk's Adventure)
5. Goemon (The Legend of the Mystical Ninja)
6. Master Higgins (Adventure Island)
7. Pyramid Head (Silent Hill)
   
8. Soma Cruz (Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow)

Namco Mii costumes

1. Dig Dug (Dig Dug)
2. Gil (The Tower of Druga)
3. Heihachi Mishima (Tekken)
4. King (Tekken)
5. Klonoa (Klonoa)
   
6. Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)
   
7. Mappy (Mappy)
   
8. Nightmare (SoulCalibur)
   
9. Valkyrie (Valkyrie no Densetsu)

Sega Mii costumes

1. Akira Yuri (Virtua Fighter)
2. Alex Kidd (Alex Kidd in Miracle World)
3. Blaze Fielding (Streets of Rage)
   
4. Gilius Thunderhead (Golden Axe)
   
5. Jack Frost (Shin Megami Tensei)
6. Jacky Bryant (Virtua Fighter 5)
   
7. Knuckles (Sonic the Hedgehog 3)
8. Nights (Nights into Dreams)
   
9. Persona 3 Protagonist
10. Persona 4 Protagonist
11. Tails (Sonic the Hedgehog 2)
12. Wonder Boy / Wonder Girl (Wonder Boy: The Dragon's Trap)

Square Enix Mii costumes (let's just fantasize for a minute that Square Enix is far more generous that they actually are)

1. Black Mage (Mario Sports Mix)
2. Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV)
3. Crono (Chrono Trigger)
   
4. Dragon Quest Builders Hero / Heroine
5. Dragon Quest VIII Hero
6. Dragon Quest XI Hero
7. Dragonlord (Dragon Quest)
8. Geno (Super Mario RPG)
9. Mallow (Super Mario RPG)
   
10. Randi (Secret of Mana)
    
11. Sora (Kingdom Hearts)
    
12. Terra Branford (Final Fantasy VI)
    
13. White Mage (Mario Sports Mix)

What about a Dante mii costume?
That'd be cool, I think.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'd like to pose a question to try to understand what the fandom's general opinion is.

Should Smash be Nintendo-focused, with third parties treated as guests? Or should Smash be a general gaming crossover, with first and third parties treated equally?

Just to be clear, I'm asking about what you want Smash to be, not what you think Smash is.

(If this turns out to be a big point of discussion I might make a thread about this)

 

[Gameboi834]

Should Smash be Nintendo-focused, with third parties treated as guests? Or should Smash be a general gaming crossover, with first and third parties treated equally?

I think it should be a crossover with the best of the best, but with some leeway for Nintendo.

e.g., names that your grandma can recognize or that started/revolutionized a genre.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd like to pose a question to try to understand what the fandom's general opinion is.

Should Smash be Nintendo-focused, with third parties treated as guests? Or should Smash be a general gaming crossover, with first and third parties treated equally?

Just to be clear, I'm asking about what you want Smash to be, not what you think Smash is.

(If this turns out to be a big point of discussion I might make a thread about this)

It should just be a game where characters are added just due to the cool factor of seeing "X" character fighting "Y" character.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

You know, this talk about Frogger and the Funko miniature rendition earlier made me think: how would you guys feel if he was Konami's "Pac-Man"? As in, a character that basically represents the company's arcade era games in their moveset?

I think Twinbee might also fit into that role, but thar lil'briefcase of Frogger's has me wondering...

I'm not as well versed in retro Konami games, besides Contra and Gradius what other Konami games could he have?

 

[Ovaltine]

It should just be a game where characters are added just due to the cool factor of seeing "X" character fighting "Y" character.

Echoing this. Saying it's just based on Nintendo's characters or as a mostly third-party crossover with Nintendo as the epicenter isn't really the focus. The theme of Smash isn't such a... confining term anymore? I won't lie that I do miss the older days of it being mostly Nintendo-centric with a few guests, given that's more like the Smash I grew up with. I'm also a huge Nintendo fan and always have been. That said, Smash has taken a shift, and it's something to be accepted. It's not changing any time soon.

Besides, being locked to, "Well, third parties are just guests and should be given the red carpet treatment," or, "First parties and third parties should be treated equally," doesn't exactly feel fair. Some third parties aren't as huge or monumental, whereas some first parties from Nintendo are absolutely massive. Vice versa applies, too. People from all walks of life want to see all kinds of characters, from the big icons to the lesser known.

In the end, I just believe that it's as simple as, "Hey, (x) would be cool to see in Smash," regardless of where they're from (outside of them needing to originate from gaming). I don't think it's fair to close off, say, a third party like Master Chief just because, "Well, I'm a Nintendo purist, screw what everyone else wants." Nintendo fans do need to keep being given that love, too, though. There has to be a balance, but some third parties kinda... do need that red carpet.

It's so complicated, wtf, I don't remember where my line of thought was going uhhhhhh point is anything is fine and anything is chill, anything goes for Smash now, that's just how it be, m8

 

[Flyboy]

I'd like to pose a question to try to understand what the fandom's general opinion is.

Should Smash be Nintendo-focused, with third parties treated as guests? Or should Smash be a general gaming crossover, with first and third parties treated equally?

Just to be clear, I'm asking about what you want Smash to be, not what you think Smash is.

(If this turns out to be a big point of discussion I might make a thread about this)

I think Smash should be MOSTLY Nintendo, with added third parties that are exciting and important to gaming. However, I feel they should appear on Nintendo consoles at least once unless they're very special exceptions (like Master Chief).

Smash is Nintendo first, but it's also expanded to include all kinds of gaming crossover content which I really love. I'm still over the moon that Joker and Persona are repped and if 2B was added it would be amazing to me because she's the protagonist of my favorite game of all time. That said, Nintendo rep should get the priority when it comes to base roster newcomers at least.

Also when it comes to third parties I want ones that either are tied to Nintendo (Bayonetta, Simon, hypothetically Phoenix Wright, Layton) or have major impact or dream match potential (Sonic, Ryu), or are just part of truly excellent games (Joker).

 

[3BitSaurus]

I'd like to pose a question to try to understand what the fandom's general opinion is.

Should Smash be Nintendo-focused, with third parties treated as guests? Or should Smash be a general gaming crossover, with first and third parties treated equally?

Just to be clear, I'm asking about what you want Smash to be, not what you think Smash is.

(If this turns out to be a big point of discussion I might make a thread about this)

Hmmm... to me, it still is primarily about Nintendo, but I think some leeway is good. Since their new goal is making Smash the biggest gaming crossover of all time, with titles that have huge legacies in gaming in general, there should be some spots "saved" for third party... though I guess five or more from the same company would kinda be a bit much in my eyes.

I suppose I mostly say this because while I would love for several Square, Capcom and Sega characters to make it in, there are so many important companies in video game history that I think some should get in before we get more reps from others... but all of this is just me, the dev team might think very differently.

I'm not as well versed in retro Konami games, besides Contra and Gradius what other Konami games could he have?

While I've never actually thought about a full moveset for Frogger, some other arcade games that a "Konami arcade god" could pull from are: Twinbee, Gradius, Sunset Riders, Yie Ar Kung-Fu (one of the first ever "fighting" games, for those who don't know) and even Contra.

 

[shinhed-echi]

View attachment 223510
Made a hypothetical roster for the next game. Only cut character is Cloud due to complications with Square-Enix and devalued importance due to "everyone is here" no longer being the tagline. This is also why there are no Square-Enix newcomers. I would love to be proven wrong and keep him in the next game but sadly I don't think that will be the case.
Green = Newcomer.
Red = New echo fighter.
Yellow = This character has undergone a redesign, either as small as giving Ganondorf a new set of specials or more drastic like re-doing Kirby completely so that every move he has is a reference to a copy ability, like Mega Man.
Last four blue characters past Joker = who I think will be DLC for Ultimate.
Takumaru and Rusty are the retro/joke characters respectively. No way in hell do I believe that every green character could be added to the game at once, hence why I think this is more of a tempered wishlist than anything.

Sweet! Axel Stone! You got a moveset thought out for him?

He’s got a lot to work with. Bats, pipes, knives, gas bombs, grand upper!, police backup, and the other characters from SoR!

 

[Nemuresu]

I'd like to pose a question to try to understand what the fandom's general opinion is.

Should Smash be Nintendo-focused, with third parties treated as guests? Or should Smash be a general gaming crossover, with first and third parties treated equally?

Just to be clear, I'm asking about what you want Smash to be, not what you think Smash is.

(If this turns out to be a big point of discussion I might make a thread about this)

The latter. I honestly think complaints about guests have gone quite out of hand.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

View attachment 223510
Made a hypothetical roster for the next game. Only cut character is Cloud due to complications with Square-Enix and devalued importance due to "everyone is here" no longer being the tagline. This is also why there are no Square-Enix newcomers. I would love to be proven wrong and keep him in the next game but sadly I don't think that will be the case.
Green = Newcomer.
Red = New echo fighter.
Yellow = This character has undergone a redesign, either as small as giving Ganondorf a new set of specials or more drastic like re-doing Kirby completely so that every move he has is a reference to a copy ability, like Mega Man.
Last four blue characters past Joker = who I think will be DLC for Ultimate.
Takumaru and Rusty are the retro/joke characters respectively. No way in hell do I believe that every green character could be added to the game at once, hence why I think this is more of a tempered wishlist than anything.

No cap, I'd rather have Ninten over Porky as Mother's 3rd playable character. Having a Mother character that has a larger focus on cqc due to not having Ness/Lucas' specials and having specials that he can inherently learn in Mother would make for a pretty interesting character, imo.

Either him or the Masked Man, for that matter.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

For me, I think having a decent focus on Nintendo to some degree but having it still be a mighty guess crossover is ideal. Right between the idea of "heavy Nintendo focus" and "heavy 3rd party focus". Right now Ultimate actually has a pretty reasonable sweet spot. Even if we had all 3rd party Fighter's Pass characters, the sweet spot is still there. Besides, even Assist Trophies have been referred to as guests. I don't think Sakurai should lose the importance of its Nintendo history in itself, so a good amount of 1st party content is important(not necessarily just playable characters), but that doesn't mean 3rd parties should be Nintendo-focused either. They should be fun and interesting characters. Nintendo history shouldn't be a required factor in any way. The game already evolved well beyond that part. I think it should stay that way.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't get this thing of characters fitting in or not, it's a crossover game, It's going to have a bit of everything an it's inconsistent. We have Kirby and yoshi fighting against Bayonetta and Snake, and it's pretty awesome.

 

[Megadoomer]

I don't get this thing of characters fitting in or not, it's a crossover game, It's going to have a bit of everything an it's inconsistent. We have Kirby and yoshi fighting against Bayonetta and Snake, and it's pretty awesome.

I don't get it either. The first game alone had Captain Falcon alongside Kirby, or Samus being able to fight Pikachu, and nobody raised an eyebrow. All of a sudden, they add third party characters, and any one of those that isn't a cartoony mascot gets criticized for not fitting in. (some more than others - characters from M-rated games/franchises get hit the hardest, but you still see that occasionally get brought up for Cloud or the Belmonts. Ryu and Ken are probably the big exceptions, but even then, that still gets thrown at them from time to time)

 

[Deleted member]

I don't get it either. The first game alone had Captain Falcon alongside Kirby, or Samus being able to fight Pikachu, and nobody raised an eyebrow. All of a sudden, they add third party characters, and any one of those that isn't a cartoony mascot gets criticized for not fitting in. (some more than others - characters from M-rated games/franchises get hit the hardest, but you still see that occasionally get brought up for Cloud or the Belmonts. Ryu and Ken are probably the big exceptions, but even then, that still gets thrown at them from time to time)

Usually people like that are Nintendo purists, which I can't relate since there are more possibilities with 3rd party now than 1st party.

 

[Nemuresu]

Usually people like that are Nintendo purists, which I can't relate since there are more possibilities with 3rd party now than 1st party.

^Pretty much. That's one of my main problems with the Nintendo characters that are being pushed. Aside from Porky, all of the Nintendo characters that people champion suffer from:
a) Already being in the game, thus not being (in my honest opinion) possible.
b) Relying on the absence of spirits despite what interviews lead to believe on the Pass' content.
c) Only existing for promotional purposes.
Third-party characters on the other hand, still have a broad selection to choose from, without falling into being blatant ads for games.

 

[Ovaltine]

I don't get this thing of characters fitting in or not, it's a crossover game, It's going to have a bit of everything an it's inconsistent. We have Kirby and yoshi fighting against Bayonetta and Snake, and it's pretty awesome.

It also gave us Kirby with a gun, and that is more than enough to justify it for me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

c) Only existing for promotional purposes.

Compounding this, the promotional worthy games are from the Mario, Pokémon, and Fire Emblem series. I mean, they could add Tom Nook from Animal Crossing, but I'm not sure how many times you can remix a moveset from the exact same limited movepool. They could give him some sort of money making mechanic or something but...actually that sounds pretty fun.

I still think Byleth could be a really interesting character using some sort of ally management mechanic. Like, he could control the position of Edleguard, Demitri, and Claude for some cool trap based setups or something. That being said I really don't think it's a good character choice.

 

[shinhed-echi]

To me it would be ideal to have 75% be Nintendo, and 25% being 3rd parties.

Personally, I think we have pretty much every essential 1st party character we need.

Are there still characters that I would love to have included? Hell yes.

Spoiler

Mike Jones
Takamaru
Isaac
Medusa
Ninten
King Hippo / Mr.Sandman / Doc Louis
Zoda
Samurai Goroh
Saki Amamiya
Aíran Jo / Kachi
Jenna / Felix
Ribbon Girl / Spring Man

And I still think there’s room for them, if it weren’t because Nintendo would think that over half of these are irrelevant.

Having said that, there are way more 3rd party characters that I would personally hype a lot more for (except Mike Jones, he’s forever my #1 most wanted).

 

[Icedragonadam]

To me it would be ideal to have 75% be Nintendo, and 25% being 3rd parties.

Personally, I think we have pretty much every essential 1st party character we need.

Are there still characters that I would love to have included? Hell yes.

Spoiler

Mike Jones
Takamaru
Isaac
Medusa
Ninten
King Hippo / Mr.Sandman / Doc Louis
Zoda
Samurai Goroh
Saki Amamiya
Aíran Jo / Kachi
Jenna / Felix
Ribbon Girl / Spring Man

And I still think there’s room for them, if it weren’t because Nintendo would think that over half of these are irrelevant.

Having said that, there are way more 3rd party characters that I would personally hype a lot more for (except Mike Jones, he’s forever my #1 most wanted).

I still question why Star Tropics has NO spirits at all which is baffling consdiering it got two games and is on the Switch Online NES selection.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I still question why Star Tropics has NO spirits at all which is baffling consdiering it got two games and is on the Switch Online NES selection.

People are saying that the spirit picks were made from members of the development team. Star Tropics was never released in the east and is encredibly obscure in the west so they probably didn't even know about the character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

People are saying that the spirit picks were made from members of the development team. Star Tropics was never released in the east and is encredibly obscure in the west so they probably didn't even know about the character.

It's been outright confirmed the staff picked them. It's possible that Sakurai removed that one, maybe?

 

[Ovaltine]

Having said that, there are way more 3rd party characters that I would personally hype a lot more for (except Mike Jones, he’s forever my #1 most wanted).

yes

YES

StarTropics needs more love. Both games (yes, even the more lackluster 2) are amazing classics for me. It's such a shame it's one of Nintendo's least-loved IPs.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I still question why Star Tropics has NO spirits at all which is baffling consdiering it got two games and is on the Switch Online NES selection.

It is an unknown and unimportant game to Japan, most likely. I can at least say Sakurai (or someone from his team) knows about ST because it at least made the list of Chronicles in Brawl.
NoA has a soft spot for the series it seems, but what can they do? We’re lucky they brought it to the NSO NES. (Now hoping ST2 comes ssn) because they skipped the 3DS.

yes

YES

StarTropics needs more love. Both games (yes, even the more lackluster 2) are amazing classics for me. It's such a shame it's one of Nintendo's least-loved IPs.

It’s the sad fate of any series tasked with keeping an outdated console alive.
Or at least that’s the pattern I’m starting to notice.

Had ST 2 been on the Snes instead of NES when the Snes was already booming, it would have at least lived to turn into something more than a cult classic. Could have been something between Pilot Wings and Punch Out! in terms of recognition.

(I found 2 to be different but equally good. It just feels a bit anti-climatic to me, that’s all).

 

[GoodGrief741]

Keep those answers coming.

Personally, I think I'm closest to Flyboy in that I think Smash should be mostly Nintendo, and I agree with his/her criteria for third party characters (they're either iconic, from series important to gaming history, or basically Nintendo characters).

While I think if Smash was solely first party there would be less of a chance that I would dislike a newcomer, the reality is that so far I think the third parties have been spot on. Plus the only 3 characters I loathe are all first party so there you go.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I'd like to pose a question to try to understand what the fandom's general opinion is.

Should Smash be Nintendo-focused, with third parties treated as guests? Or should Smash be a general gaming crossover, with first and third parties treated equally?

Just to be clear, I'm asking about what you want Smash to be, not what you think Smash is.

(If this turns out to be a big point of discussion I might make a thread about this)

I've unfortunately lost my patience with the novelty of third-parties since Cloud, and have been against the possibility of the latter choice from the first time it came up. I'll admit it might be context sensitive; I have minimal patience for Shulk and similar sword-oriented movesets with little to no substance, and there are definitely some third-parties I would have no qualms adding. But I've invested too many desires for fixing in-game representation to get excited for a corporate crossover.

 

[shinhed-echi]

TBH, as hyped as I was for Cloud’s inclusion, I don’t feel like it’s a moveset drawn from Final Fantasy as opposed to one from either Smash Fire Emblem or Soul Calibur.

Like.. where’s magic? Where’s summon? I know the latter went to create a unique stage hazard, but it would have been cool for Cloud to sport different materia.

This is why I’ve somehow always been split on Cloud. I like the character, but the moveset is eh... it’s possible that this is why I don’t have as much fun as I would want to when i play as him.

Just for the heck of it, when I could assign messages to taunts, I had his side taunts day: “Not enough MP” just so I felt like I at least was about to cast magic.

 

[Idon]

TBH, as hyped as I was for Cloud’s inclusion, I don’t feel like it’s a moveset drawn from Final Fantasy as opposed to one from either Smash Fire Emblem or Soul Calibur.

Like.. where’s magic? Where’s summon? I know the latter went to create a unique stage hazard, but it would have been cool for Cloud to sport different materia.

This is why I’ve somehow always been split on Cloud. I like the character, but the moveset is eh... it’s possible that this is why I don’t have as much fun as I would want to when i play as him.

Just for the heck of it, when I could assign messages to taunts, I had his side taunts day: “Not enough MP” just so I felt like I at least was about to cast magic.

I feel like he should've had his limits incorporated in his moveset more so that he could have access to his weirder stuff.

Like, instead of Fsmash being a random triple hit, it could be the actual cross slash so then he could do meteorain, the stabbing part of climhazzard, Cherry Blossom from FFT, or other magic materia like fire, thunder, or blizzard.