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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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"I know this is trolling, but in fact, poeple asking for Sora might have influenced the choice of adding Final Fantasy 7 in Smash, since Sora can't be added but Final Fantasy 7 characters are designed by Tetsuya Nomura who's the same artist of Kingdom Hearts."
"I know this is trolling, but in fact, poeple asking for Geno might have influenced the choice of adding Final Fantasy 7 in Smash, since Geno can't be added but Final Fantasy 7 characters are owned by Square Enix who's the same developer of Super Mario RPG."
 

MooMew64

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Also I love how when you try to talk about actual speculation in a speculation thread people make fun of you, but when you ****post everything is fine.
This thread gets unnecessarily hostile a lot. Heck, I'll admit there are times where my own sarcasm can come off a little mean spirited, it's something I'm trying to watch more.
 

Eldrake

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"I know this is trolling, but in fact, poeple asking for Geno might have influenced the choice of adding Final Fantasy 7 in Smash, since Geno can't be added but Final Fantasy 7 characters are owned by Square Enix who's the same developer of Super Mario RPG."
"I know this is trolling, but in fact, poeple asking for an echo pass might have influenced the choice of adding Terry Bogard in Smash, since an echo pass can't be added but Fatal Fury characters are owned by SNK who's the same developer of SNK vs. Capcom."
Quick Disclaimer: I know that Terry is not a Ken clone and thought the "Hat Ken" stuff to be absolutely ridiculous.
 
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EricTheGamerman

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I think I'm also increasingly pulled in the direction of a few people who went more modern characters in Smash. There have been really solid character options in recent years and I'd love to see Smash pull from more of those titles and even just more from 21st century franchises in general as well.
 

Idon

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What the **** am I reading?
Incineroar in the direct does darkest lariat
Sakurai: "You could even call this a sort of 'Red cyclone!'"
Zangief is called the red cyclone
His second most iconic move is the spinning lariat


"Wow, can't believe Sakurai referenced Crash!"

THE DUDE WAS IN WRECK-IT-RALPH, GUYS C'MON.
 
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King Sonnn DeDeDoo

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Regardless of the origins or inspiration of the move, I'm hoping if Crash gets in his spin is not like Incineroar.

I feel like Crash's spin needs to be highly mobile and fast, closer to Meta Knight's Mach Tornado than Darkest Lariat.
 

Guybrush20X6

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I don't really plan on including movesets since
  1. There are people way more suited to making those than me, and
  2. Movesets aren't really able to be speculated on since it comes down to Sakurai. We can hardly speculate his character choices, let alone movesets
Maybe I'll bring it up in the master post, but movesets are out of my wheelhouse of speculation. If I speculate I want to do good, so I'd rather leave that to the moveset experts.
True, we all speculated Mega Man but every oen of us throught he'd have the Charge shot as his standard special, not his side smash
 
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Also I love how when you try to talk about actual speculation in a speculation thread people make fun of you, but when you ****post everything is fine.
Tougon definitely didn't provide anything constructive, but Idon's post clarifies the logical issues with your post.

Me, though? I'm just ****posting.
 

nessdeltarune00

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Gonna just say it now. The General direct after Pokemon direct argument is iffy. Starting from Nintendo's "Three General Directs Per Year" (TGDPY) plan in 2017, the only general directs that have happened after a Pokemon direct were E3 2017 and E3 2019. Both were E3 events so that pattern is exclusive solely for that event.

The only other Pokemon direct in the TGDPY plan these past three years was two weeks after the Feb 2018 direct. We don't have enough info in recent years to confidently predict a direct. Even before the TGDPY plan, there was still a Pokemon direct that had no following General direct back in 2013.

In conclusion, let's not be surprised here if a General Direct is not announced for next week.

It actually did once happen for a non E3 Direct.

Feb 26, 2016: Pokemon Direct
Mar 3, 2016: General Direct
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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This thread gets unnecessarily hostile a lot. Heck, I'll admit there are times where my own sarcasm can come off a little mean spirited, it's something I'm trying to watch more.
That's an understatement. It's blatant trolling and dogpiling on a user while not even making a real point towards them. They clearly don't get the point being made with very badly done sarcasm.

I reported it the best I could, but when people constantly dogpile and troll another, it's hard to get enough reports in. Sometimes hard-contacting a Mod is the sole solution. Besides, none of them are funny or interesting, nor are properly making a point. I forgot the part where goading someone into laughing in their face is magically a "point" to make.

I think I'm also increasingly pulled in the direction of a few people who went more modern characters in Smash. There have been really solid character options in recent years and I'd love to see Smash pull from more of those titles and even just more from 21st century franchises in general as well.
I do admit we don't get a lot of these as often as we could. Though it feels like Ultimate does a good job with both. Hero is both old and new, but then you have ones like Isabelle, Incineroar, and Dark Samus, all more modern characters.
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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Outstanding observation! Marth's moveset is packed with Dragon Quest references including forward air and up smash. Furthermore, Hero himself appears to reference Dragon Ball in his animations. Not shown below is the most obvious reference: the firing animation for Kafrizz.



I think we can expect to see Goku sometime very soon.
dont forget he does a kamehameha like pose when he fires a spell with no MP
 
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It actually did once happen for a non E3 Direct.

Feb 26, 2016: Pokemon Direct
Mar 3, 2016: General Direct
No it happened multiple times, but that was before the Three General Direct Per Year plan. It was back in the day when Nintendo practically **** out Nintendo Directs whenever they felt like it.

Nowadays? Their number of general directs are limited and have to be pinpointed to three specific points in the year. Pre-E3 (Feb to April), E3, and Post-E3 (autumn season). This is consistent starting from 2017 and is made further evident last year in 2019. This whole system is probably a result of not having two consoles (Wii U and 3ds) to market for but just one (Switch).

I really think we're just guessing a general direct is going to happen every next week until we get it right eventually.
 
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AceAttorney9000

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Outstanding observation! Marth's moveset is packed with Dragon Quest references including forward air and up smash. Furthermore, Hero himself appears to reference Dragon Ball in his animations. Not shown below is the most obvious reference: the firing animation for Kafrizz.



I think we can expect to see Goku sometime very soon.
Nah, man. If we're getting any Dragon Ball character, it's the one that was already referenced in the base game...
 

Michael the Spikester

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Gonna just say it now. The General direct after Pokemon direct argument is iffy. Starting from Nintendo's "Three General Directs Per Year" (TGDPY) plan in 2017, the only general directs that have happened after a Pokemon direct were E3 2017 and E3 2019. Both were E3 events so that pattern is exclusive solely for that event.

The only other Pokemon direct in the TGDPY plan these past three years was two weeks after the Feb 2018 direct. We don't have enough info in recent years to confidently predict a direct. Even before the TGDPY plan, there was still a Pokemon direct that had no following General direct back in 2013.

In conclusion, let's not be surprised here if a General Direct is not announced for next week.
You're forgetting the next line of amiibos come out next week which lines up pretty well.
 

Cutie Gwen

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That's an understatement. It's blatant trolling and dogpiling on a user while not even making a real point towards them. They clearly don't get the point being made with very badly done sarcasm.

I reported it the best I could, but when people constantly dogpile and troll another, it's hard to get enough reports in. Sometimes hard-contacting a Mod is the sole solution. Besides, none of them are funny or interesting, nor are properly making a point. I forgot the part where goading someone into laughing in their face is magically a "point" to make.


I do admit we don't get a lot of these as often as we could. Though it feels like Ultimate does a good job with both. Hero is both old and new, but then you have ones like Isabelle, Incineroar, and Dark Samus, all more modern characters.
Irene you realize a lot of people were making actual points such as how Zangief and Incineroar are both wrestlers, Zangief's Lariant being wellknown and Sakurai outright comparing Incineroar to Zangief are actually points and not trolling, right? If anything, your logic should conclude that denial of Zangief being the inspiration is the actual trolling
 

Professor Pumpkaboo

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"I know this is trolling, but in fact, poeple asking for Sora might have influenced the choice of adding Final Fantasy 7 in Smash, since Sora can't be added but Final Fantasy 7 characters are designed by Tetsuya Nomura who's the same artist of Kingdom Hearts."
is that an actual thing people say?
 

MooMew64

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That's an understatement. It's blatant trolling and dogpiling on a user while not even making a real point towards them. They clearly don't get the point being made with very badly done sarcasm.

I reported it the best I could, but when people constantly dogpile and troll another, it's hard to get enough reports in. Sometimes hard-contacting a Mod is the sole solution. Besides, none of them are funny or interesting, nor are properly making a point. I forgot the part where goading someone into laughing in their face is magically a "point" to make.
I'm assuming you're talking about the AT argument yesterday? I'm not gonna lie, I'm not sure if I handled that one well on my end. I don't think anyone in that discussion did.

Speaking of that, wynn728 wynn728 just want to offer an apology for yesterday. I could've phrased some of my points a little less hostile, I was acting a bit like an "Opinion Police" mindset and that wasn't really cool of me.
 
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I'd argue that Nintendo would be pretty ****ing dumb to not announce that until a month before release but at the same time Nintendo never handled amiibo well
I know I'm sounding stubborn with this, but can someone confirm that every DLC presentation had an amiibo announcement?
 
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That's an understatement. It's blatant trolling and dogpiling on a user while not even making a real point towards them. They clearly don't get the point being made with very badly done sarcasm.

I reported it the best I could, but when people constantly dogpile and troll another, it's hard to get enough reports in. Sometimes hard-contacting a Mod is the sole solution. Besides, none of them are funny or interesting, nor are properly making a point. I forgot the part where goading someone into laughing in their face is magically a "point" to make.
Tbh, most people really gotta learn to report and move on, including me. Old habits die hard I guess.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Irene you realize a lot of people were making actual points such as how Zangief and Incineroar are both wrestlers, Zangief's Lariant being wellknown and Sakurai outright comparing Incineroar to Zangief are actually points and not trolling, right? If anything, your logic should conclude that denial of Zangief being the inspiration is the actual trolling
So maybe three of us at most, with the rest severely mocking the user for being wrong? Nice try, but mocking users is blatantly intended to troll them. That's what trolling is, trying to get a rise out of users. Stop defending that kind of bull****. It's ****ed up, frankly. I'll call out blatant trolling when I see it if I clearly can't report it fast enough(though I shouldn't do that, actually, since it's not necessary and adds more fuel to the flame. How does one reports over 20 posts at once? Yeish).

I'm assuming you're talking about the AT argument yesterday? I'm not gonna lie, I'm not sure if I handled that one well on my end. I don't think anyone in that discussion did.

Speaking of that, wynn728 wynn728 just want to offer an apology for yesterday. I could've phrased some of my points a little less hostile, I was acting a bit like an "Opinion Police" mindset and that wasn't really cool of me.
No, I was talking about the trolling that went on today. Either way, I'm probably adding more to ignore list now since people think trolling is ever justified.

I've seen malicious users before, but this is goddamn ridiculous.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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I don't really plan on including movesets since
  1. There are people way more suited to making those than me, and
  2. Movesets aren't really able to be speculated on since it comes down to Sakurai. We can hardly speculate his character choices, let alone movesets
Maybe I'll bring it up in the master post, but movesets are out of my wheelhouse of speculation. If I speculate I want to do good, so I'd rather leave that to the moveset experts.
Moveset speculation is more of a "what if" than an attempt at prediction. No two people are going to have the same idea when conceptualizing a fighter. Ex. Most people based Bowser Jr. off of his appearance in Super Mario Sunshine, but his actual Smash moveset is more based off of his appearances in the New Super Mario Bros. series. Both equally valid, but majorly different representations of the character.

I know I'm sounding stubborn with this, but can someone confirm that every DLC presentation had an amiibo announcement?
I didn't check so I'll probably have egg on my face but I think Banjo & Kazooie's exhibition was the only one that had an Amiibo announcement.
 

Cutie Gwen

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So maybe three of us at most, with the rest severely mocking the user for being wrong? Nice try, but mocking users is blatantly intended to troll them. That's what trolling is, trying to get a rise out of users. Stop defending that kind of bull****. It's ****ed up, frankly. I'll call out blatant trolling when I see it if I clearly can't report it fast enough.


No, I was talking about the trolling that went on today. Either way, I'm probably adding more to ignore list now since people think trolling is ever justified.

I've seen malicious users before, but this is goddamn ridiculous.
Ask yourself why the trolled must have become a target. In this case, it was saying dumb **** and refusing to back down from it, so people who are used to people refusing to admit they're wrong for being wrong double down, derailing the thread. It's not a one-side issue
 

Iko MattOrr

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Tougon definitely didn't provide anything constructive, but Idon's post clarifies the logical issues with your post.

Me, though? I'm just ****posting.
Honestly I don't care, really. They can continue if they want, I'm just sad we can't discuss in a civil way.

Though, It doesn't matter if it appeared in Wreck it Ralph, Zangief is still kinda obscure to anyone who's not familiar with Street Fighter.
Ryu and Chun Li are the most popular characters and they are kinda popular even among non-fans... heck, even Mr Bison and a few others have more visibility in the gaming community.

I'm not a Street Fighters fan, and despite this, I (casually) played it a few times in the past... even in this case, I still had no idea of who Zangief is without Wikipedia and Youtube.

If Tingle is not popular enough in the west for Smash (apparently Sakurai said it), how can Zangief be considere mainstream?

Anyway, Incineroar's attack in the original Pokèmon game looks identical to Zangief's, but in Smash it's completely different, and it's more funny. The reason might be anything... Crash or not, maybe it was even just the fact that a static T-pose rotating on itself was dull and they decided to make it more dynamic. The fact is, in Smash, the move looks completely different.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Moveset speculation is more of a "what if" than an attempt at prediction. No two people are going to have the same idea when conceptualizing a fighter. Ex. Most people based Bowser Jr. off of his appearance in Super Mario Sunshine, but his actual Smash moveset is more based off of his appearances in the New Super Mario Bros. series. Both equally valid, but majorly different representations of the character.
So much this.

I had a completely different idea for what Hero could do myself. I was more into his(her) weapons upgrading to be unique. Same with armor. Albeit, I was hoping for Erdrick's Descendant, the original DQ1 Hero, so based it upon that. Starting with the basic Leather Armor, and then moving to Steel, Magic, and eventually Erdrick's Armor. Each one gaining weight but more defense, with some extra healing for Magic and Erdrick's. We still got a "magic upgrade" in a level up sense in the final version, at least. Something I've wanted to see for a while among characters.
 
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I didn't check so I'll probably have egg on my face but I think Banjo & Kazooie's exhibition was the only one that had an Amiibo announcement.
I'm rewatching them on my slow internet. Hero had an ammibo announcement too, including Isabelle and male Poke Trainer.
 
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So much this.

I had a completely different idea for what Hero could do myself. I was more into his(her) weapons upgrading to be unique. Same with armor. Albeit, I was hoping for Erdrick's Descendant, the original DQ1 Hero, so based it upon that. Starting with the basic Leather Armor, and then moving to Steel, Magic, and eventually Erdrick's Armor. Each one gaining weight but more defense, with some extra healing for Magic and Erdrick's. We still got a "magic upgrade" in a level up sense in the final version, at least. Something I've wanted to see for a while among characters.
A Frank West esque level up character is the one archetype I'd really like to see as well. Don't really know or care which character could have it, it would just be neat to see.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Honestly I don't care, really. They can continue if they want, I'm just sad we can't discuss in a civil way.

Though, It doesn't matter if it appeared in Wreck it Ralph, Zangief is still kinda obscure to anyone who's not familiar with Street Fighter.
Ryu and Chun Li are the most popular characters and they are kinda popular even among non-fans... heck, even Mr Bison and a few others have more visibility in the gaming community.

I'm not a Street Fighters fan, and despite this, I (casually) played it a few times in the past... even in this case, I still had no idea of who Zangief is without Wikipedia and Youtube.

If Tingle is not popular enough in the west for Smash (apparently Sakurai said it), how can Zangief be considere mainstream?

Anyway, Incineroar's attack in the original Pokèmon game looks identical to Zangief's, but in Smash it's completely different, and it's more funny. The reason might be anything... Crash or not, maybe it was even just the fact that a static T-pose rotating on itself was dull and they decided to make it more dynamic. The fact is, in Smash, the move looks completely different.
Tingle's issue wasn't obscurity but that a ****ton of people outright hate Tingle.

Zangief is a frequently occuring character in a franchise that regularly sells millions, with Zangief's debut game only recently no longer becoming the best selling fighting game due to Smash Ultimate
 

nessdeltarune00

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Hot take incoming.


It honestly boggles my mind that people thought (and still think) KOS-MOS would get in before Lloyd and Heihachi. The Tweet about her series failing a market analysis should’ve been the final nail in the coffin.


Those two got Mii Costumes in the last game, for crying out loud. If we get a Namco rep for post pass, it will 99% be either one of them.
 
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It honestly boggles my mind that people thought (and still think) KOS-MOS would get in before Lloyd and Heihachi. The Tweet about her series failing a market analysis should’ve been the final nail in the coffin.

Those two got Mii Costumes in the last game, for crying out loud. If we get a Namco rep for post pass, it will 99% be either one of them.
A lot of her chances came down to leaks, which were soon thrown in the trash. Leaks encourage a "believe in this character and the details will sort itself in reteospect" mentality so that might explain everything for you.

That being said, I disagree that KOSMOS couldn't have got in before Heihachi or Lloyd. After all, we got Banjo & Kazooie as the Microsoft rep versus Master Chief or Steve. Circumstances are different, sure, but it's a case where the dead franchise overtakes the currently alive and successful franchise.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Honestly I don't care, really. They can continue if they want, I'm just sad we can't discuss in a civil way.

Though, It doesn't matter if it appeared in Wreck it Ralph, Zangief is still kinda obscure to anyone who's not familiar with Street Fighter.
Ryu and Chun Li are the most popular characters and they are kinda popular even among non-fans... heck, even Mr Bison and a few others have more visibility in the gaming community.

I'm not a Street Fighters fan, and despite this, I (casually) played it a few times in the past... even in this case, I still had no idea of who Zangief is without Wikipedia and Youtube.

If Tingle is not popular enough in the west for Smash (apparently Sakurai said it), how can Zangief be considere mainstream?

Anyway, Incineroar's attack in the original Pokèmon game looks identical to Zangief's, but in Smash it's completely different, and it's more funny. The reason might be anything... Crash or not, maybe it was even just the fact that a static T-pose rotating on itself was dull and they decided to make it more dynamic. The fact is, in Smash, the move looks completely different.
Oh, it does look different, true. But I doubt Crash was the idea behind it. Don't forget R.O.B. has a similar move. Maybe they just reused an animation?

I don't think Zangief is honestly all that obscure. Also, I can't find where Sakurai said that about Tingle(though it's not hard to believe since he has had a lack of popularity in the West. It's lightened up a lot, but stuff like HW and them pushing his more favorable Majora's Mask version helps).

What SF games did you play? I don't think Zangief is in them all? I grew up with SFII, so I know that cast far better than any other one. I've heard of a few others, and seen pictures as is. But the cast beyond II with few exceptions are mostly a mystery to me other than maybe their names or a basic like "are they a shotoclone", and only sometimes. It's a huge series, so you might recognize only a certain era of characters.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Tingle's issue wasn't obscurity but that a ****ton of people outright hate Tingle.

Zangief is a frequently occuring character in a franchise that regularly sells millions, with Zangief's debut game only recently no longer becoming the best selling fighting game due to Smash Ultimate
And for proof of his iconography, he's one of the only characters in Street Fighter 5 to has his classic costume be his default, the other three being the series mascots Ryu and Chun-li and Gil, final boss of Street Fighter 3.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Hot take incoming.


It honestly boggles my mind that people thought (and still think) KOS-MOS would get in before Lloyd and Heihachi. The Tweet about her series failing a market analysis should’ve been the final nail in the coffin.


Those two got Mii Costumes in the last game, for crying out loud. If we get a Namco rep for post pass, it will 99% be either one of them.
series outcome doesn't matter

I know I just memed about it earlier today, but if we got Banjo Kazooie, a series that wasn't relevant in over a decade (and let's just say it didn't quite go out with a bang either) as our first form of Microsoft representation before the gaming juggernauts that are Halo or Minecraft, I'd say anything goes at this point
 
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