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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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NoOtherPersona

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So since I'm bored and have some time, I thought I might write a decently in-depth post on why I think a Nihon Falcom rep is quite possibly one of the most under discussed characters at this point comparatively to how likely they are (kinda like SNK and Terry). It makes sense in the West because while their popularity is rising, they are still very niche. In JP, they are well known. Since they have a good bit of history/legacy allow me to go over why I think they are quite possibly one of the most important companies that are not present in any shape or form in terms of Smash. I'm not creating this post as a huge fanboy or anything (I've dabbled a bit in TLOH and the Ys series), but it's important to note how much they helped in setting the trends for the first role-playing games (similar to DQ and FF).

View attachment 256030

So first things first:

What is Nihon Falcom?
Nihon Falcom is one of the oldest Japanese video game companies that specialize in creating role-playing games; they were founded in 1981. In comparison, Enix (responsible for Dragon Quest) was founded in 1975, while Square (responsible for Final Fantasy) was founded in 1986. While the other two companies exploded in popularity with the rise of the NES, and eventually merged together; Falcom never abandoned it's PC roots even as home consoles gained popularity and stuck almost exclusively to developing for PC until the rise of the PSP, when the switched over due to the severe decline in PC game sales in JP.
While a couple of their games made it to other consoles, the porting was almost always done by an external company.

What's special about Falcom is that during their 40 year history, they haven't really expanded that much. During the current day (where they are arguably at the peak of their popularity so far), they only have around 62 employees; in comparison SNK has nearly 164 and Platinum Games has 224. They've worked closely with bigger companies such as Sony, but they have never been bought out. Despite their legacy, they've remained a relatively small scale developer of A/AA JRPG's for nearly 40 years. They typically tend to release a game every year or so.

Since they have such a long history, a lot of known people actually got their start at Falcom.

The most notable ones are:
Tetsuya Takahashi: Creator of the Xeno franchise, and one of the founders of Monolith-Soft.
Makoto Shinkai: Mostly known for his work on movies such as Your Name and Weathering With You, but he actually got a job right out College at Falcom.

What is their impact/legacy?
While their series never really reached the popularity of series like FF and DQ; they helped set the template for RPGs.

Their known series are:
Dragon Slayer/Xanadu
Zwei
Ys
The Legend of Heroes

In particular:
Dragon Slayer was one of the first action rpg's and layed the foundations for the genre. Games like The Legend of Zelda followed the footsteps of this series. The series diverged into the Xanadu series with the last game being Tokyo Xanadu (2015).

I'm not that familiar with the Zwei series, so I can't really say much.

However, the Ys and The Legend of Heroes series are their flagship and most popular series.

The Ys series is one of the longest running RPG series and started in 1987. The games feature the story of Adol Christin; an adventurer who always ends up in the wrong place at the wrong time (or the opposite). Each game is fairly standalone, although direct sequels do exist. The series helped popularize mechanics such a regenerating health, although it did not create the mechanic in games; that honour goes to Hyldide. However, according to wikipedia (Not exactly the most reliable, I know) the Ys series was the second series to introduce regeneration as a mechanic. The series has sold around 5 million in total, and the head of Falcom states that sales of the series outside Japan are much higher inside Japan. Ys 8 on the switch was also a huge succes outside of Japan, and in total that game has sold over 500k. The latest game, YS IX released in September 2019.

The Legend of Heroes series, is Falcom's other lead series and it originally started out as a part of the Dragon Slayer series; but grew into it's on thing. The most well known games in this series are a part of the Trails subseries (Sky, Zero, Cold Steel); which started out in 2004. Unlike the Ys series, in which the games are fairly standalone; the Trails series is the telling of one continuous story in the continent of Zemuria. The series is not available on the switch in any way currently, but Cold Steel 3 is coming out on it in the next couple of months. Inside Japan, the Trails series is much bigger compared to the Ys series; however, both are extremely niche outside Japan. The latest game in the West is Cold Steel 3 which released in October of 2019, but in Japan the latest game is Cold Steel 4, which released in September 2018.

In terms of popularity (inside Japan), if we consider the S tier RPG series something like FF, DQ, and Pokemon; and A tier series like Persona, Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, and Tales then the Trails series would be B tier in terms of popularity. They have enough of a following that they can keep on making the games at a comfortable profit, but there are more popular JRPG series out there. For comparisons sake, The Cold Steel games sell a similar amount to the Danganronpa games in Japan. The games actually also have a fairly decent Chinese following, due to it being one of the first JRPG series to actually have Chinese translations, which are usually done by Sony.

Impact in Music
Falcom was actually one of the first Japanese developers to bother with a internal sound team (known as team jdk). As a result, the quality of their music is surprisingly high despite the company not having many people. Below are some tracks from the Ys and Trails series. They were pioneers of early game music (although none of these tracks are from that earlier period).


Speaking of which, Falcom is pretty open to letting anyone use their music. Which means that if they get a rep, we may end up getting another 50 tracks or so.

Who would the character be?
Well since this already took so long, I'm going to majorly skimp on this section.

There are only 3 likely candidates for a Falcom rep, Adol Christin (Ys), Estelle Bright (Trails in the Sky), and Rean Schwarzer (Trails of Cold Steel).

Out of these three, I believe the most likely is Adol Christin; the other two simply do not have the same legacy as him. In fact, there's probably not that many characters period that could bring in the same history as Adol. As a character, I don't really think he would bring that much new exciting things to the table, I mean he is an "anime swordsman". But Terry was just another brawler, and Sakurai made him really unique, so I doubt that he'll struggle to come up with a moveset.

TL;DR:
I think considering any character DLC in Smash a "lock" is a huge waste of time. Even if you're one of the most iconic 3rd party characters out there, there's still a high chance you'll get passed up. That said, if we're discussing potential "legacy" picks like Terry and SNK; I think Falcom and Adol have a prett good shot, for reasons I've outlined above. This took me way longer then it should have, so I'm probably not going to edit it. Hopefully it turned out well enough.
View attachment 256053
Man I'm praying for adol he'd be dope he's one of my top five wants since he took Terry's spot
Now it's Ryu H. Master Chief Adol Travis Touchdown and someone from SMT
 
D

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Why does Zelda need its fans to rally behind a single character to get newcomers aside from the main trio? Mario didn't need the entire fandom to rally behind Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Daisy or Piranha Plant to get those in.
The situation for the Mario characters seem to be quite different than from Zelda, all four are regulars in Mario games since their introduction, Rosalina appeared in pretty much every spinoff since her appearance in Galaxy plus she was playable in Super Mario 3D World, Daisy is an echo, Piranha Plant appears in pretty much every Mario game and Sakurai wanted to bring an unique character to the game, Bowser Jr since Sunshine is pretty much the second in command of Bowser in pretty much every game plus he also brings the Koopalings which are also popular characters.

I don't think Zelda fans need to rally for one character as that seems a bit overboard, but if the remaining options are divided among fans and the characters don't seem to be as prominent outside one game then I could see why Sakurai might not see them as a priority.
 

TheYungLink

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Why does Zelda need its fans to rally behind a single character to get newcomers aside from the main trio? Mario didn't need the entire fandom to rally behind Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Daisy or Piranha Plant to get those in.
I dunno why Zelda is treated differently than other series in terms of consideration for newcomers. Some people have offered possible reasons (most fan favorites are one-offs, Link is still usually the central character so adult Link just gets redesigned to fit the newest game and that's seemingly it, etc.), but that's just the reality of it.

It's undeniable at this point: if Zelda fans don't just want new Link semi clones, or just for the central trio to get updated designs, then it's more productive to go the K. Rool or Ridley route and largely just focus on one, single, primary fan want that fans focus intensely on for years to come.

At this point, I can only imagine that Sakurai has paid attention to which Zelda characters that fans want over the years, and has seen the demand fluctuate wildly between different choices. It's no wonder he just sticks to updating the core trio of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf.

I offered Ganon as a suggestion because Ganon would still count as a member of the core trio by being the original incarnation of Ganondorf, and an important part of early 2D Zelda games and some of the later ones too. By being a version of Ganondorf, Ganon can stay relevant within the fandom when it comes to potential Zelda newcomers (though, of course, not "relevant" in the traditional sense, as there is no guarantee we will see the specific "blue pig demon with a trident" form in the future. I mean relevant in the sense that that version of Ganon will always be a part of the character's history and legacy).

If Sakurai sees demand for this incarnation of a core Zelda character centralize and grow, he may seriously consider a full blown Zelda newcomer for once. There have been many, many, many beloved Zelda one-offs that fans genuinely love, some of whom decided to show that love by showing their demand for their inclusion as a playable character in Smash. I know I'm always willing to do it for Midna, my favorite partner for Link in the whole Zelda series. But while within the Zelda fandom, all these characters have enduring appeal, it seemingly has never been enough to become playable in Smash. Sakurai knows these characters are beloved, though, so he goes to the effort of making them Assist Trophies, like with Midna and Skull Kid and even Ghirahim. And that's the reality I'm working with here.

That same reality may have been why Sakurai finally made a Zelda boss, and specifically included Ganon from Ocarina of Time with powers from other 3D incarnations of the character like Calamity Ganon. While I appreciate the boss, technically none of Ganon's powers from the early 2D Zelda games are demonstrated in this boss fight, giving me a small kindle of hope, from which I can ask for Ganon from the 2D Zeldas. So yeah, Ganon for Smash, even with this otherwise cool boss fight.

Edit: it helps that, while we have multiple Spirits of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf from different games, we are missing a Spirit of the same "blue skinned pig demon wielding a trident" form from early 2D Zelda I keep referring to.
 
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Will

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tfw young link will never have majoras mask moveset

tfw toon link wont use cool **** like the skull hammer or deku leaf

tfw ganondorf wont trade his clone spot with black shadow
 

TheYungLink

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tfw young link will never have majoras mask moveset

tfw toon link wont use cool **** like the skull hammer or deku leaf

tfw ganondorf wont trade his clone spot with black shadow
Yup, I gave up on the idea of the core Zelda cast getting complete moveset revamps back in Smash 4, the 3rd game in a row to use the Falcondorf moveset.

That's when I finally got the idea: just...add a new version of Ganon. No replacing or revamping the current Ganondorf, it's clear Sakurai doesn't want to. Keep asking for it, and maybe Nintendo or Sakurai will pay attention.

We know Koei Tecmo paid attention. Many of their versions of the Zelda cast in Hyrule Warriors look like fan movesets Zelda fans came up for in Smash, transplanted into a Warriors game.
 
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Will

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Sakurai in 2001:

That's when I finally got the idea: just...add a new version of Link!.
Sakurai in 2008:

That's when I finally got the idea: just...add a new version of Link!.
People in 2019:

That's when I finally got the idea: just...add a new version of Ganon.
No offense my man but I want an actual new character, not just the same character but in a different way as a separate slot.

Ghirahim, Midna, that weird dude from Spirit Tracks, **** man I'd take Tingle right now and be ecstatic.
 
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Lamperouge

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Impa is the only "recurring" Zelda character from the main games that's currently missing in Smash, imo, and I'm not entirely sure what she could bring to the table unless they pull from Hyrule Warriors. I feel like the Zelda representation would be pretty fair if they took the time to properly declone Ganondorf.
 

TheYungLink

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Sakurai in 2001:



Sakurai in 2008:



People in 2019:



No offense my man but I want an actual new character, not just the same character but in a different way as a separate slot.

Ghirahim, Midna, that weird dude from Spirit Tracks, **** man I'd take Tingle right now and be ecstatic.
Hey I get it. It hurts me inside, knowing that Midna isn't playable and that we most likely will never get dual katana wielding Wind Waker Ganondorf in Smash. But so far, we've only gotten versions of Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf as playable characters.

Also...c'mon.

tfw young link will never have majoras mask moveset

tfw toon link wont use cool **** like the skull hammer or deku leaf
This demonstrates you'd like to see alternate versions of Link using different tools, at the very least. Those aren't "actual new characters".

I personally would really look forward to Ganon from 2D Zelda being playable in Smash. He wouldn't play anything like Smash Ganondorf, either, he'd be a teleporting heavyweight with a trident. Ganon would feel just as new as any of the one-off Zelda characters we love, but who have a comparatively slimmer chance of becoming playable rather than Assist Trophy material.
 

Mamboo07

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Sakurai in 2001:



Sakurai in 2008:



People in 2019:



No offense my man but I want an actual new character, not just the same character but in a different way as a separate slot.

Ghirahim, Midna, that weird dude from Spirit Tracks, **** man I'd take Tingle right now and be ecstatic.
And CD-I Ganon too! (My most wanted Zelda newcomer.)
CD-i_Ganon.gif
 
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Calamitas

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Honestly, I feel like if Sakurai had a similar approach to designing Brawl as he had with Smash 4, then we would've already long since gotten Midna. But no, I suppose being a fan-favourite Zelda character just isn't good enough to get you in when your game is not the latest.

Still banking on a Wednesday direct
Well, in like five to six hours we'll know if that's gonna happen. Personally not counting on it, though.

And CD-I Ganon too! (My most wanted Zelda newcomer.)
View attachment 256081
No.
 

Kokiden

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Are directs announced a day or two beforehand? Or a week in advance?

Anyone know?
 

Mamboo07

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Honestly, I feel like if Sakurai had a similar approach to designing Brawl as he had with Smash 4, then we would've already long since gotten Midna. But no, I suppose being a fan-favourite Zelda character just isn't good enough to get you in when your game is not the latest.



Well, in like five to six hours we'll know if that's gonna happen. Personally not counting on it, though.



No.
Yes, CD-I Ganon deserves to be in Smash.
 
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Wunderwaft

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I still want Ganondorf to be decloned more, an original moveset like the one in Legacy XP would be the dream. Other than a properly decloned dorf I'd like to see Midna, Skull Kid, and Tingle.
 

Calamitas

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Yes, CD-I Ganon deserves to be in Smash.
I'm gonna keep it real with you kid, if, by some absurd twist of fate, this character were to make it in somehow, he'd be far more hated than Falcondorf could ever hope to be.

We're talking about Zelda newcomers, but no one's mentioned Tingle.
Problem with Tingle is that Sakurai has explicitly spoken out against him, saying that he's not gonna add him because he's too unpopular in the West.

Underrated Zelda newcomer: Vaati

But yes, Impa is the most deserving character in the series that's missing so far.
This one gets it!
 

Will

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This demonstrates you'd like to see alternate versions of Link using different tools, at the very least. Those aren't "actual new characters".
They're already in the game, though. If they're gonna bring them all back, I'd prefer them to be updated. Ganon would be a completely """new""" character since 200-goddamn-8. What a disappointment.

We're talking about Zelda newcomers, but no one's mentioned Tingle.
Everyone's mentioned Tingle as the chad choice.

Underrated Zelda newcomer: Vaati
isnt that a capcom rep
 

Cutie Gwen

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Ehhh the Skull Kid that everyone refers to as a unique character is really only in one, and if the others are to be considered you have even less of a case for a moveset. Not even saying I'm against it or the rationale but saying Skull Kid from Majora's Mask isn't a one off isn't fair, I don't think.

But to be fair, Rosalina is basically a one-off. She did next to nothing for Galaxy 2, Mario benefits from the sheer numerosity of its game lineup as well as its investments in spin-offs that Zelda simply doesn't have.
To be fair the MM one is suggested to be one from OoT with the TP one being suggested to be the sane yet again. MM's the only version people really remember and the only one who actually DOES anything but still
 

ZelDan

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As far as Zelda goes, the only things I'd really care about seeing on the playable side of things are a decloned Ganondorf, more unique Toon/Young Links, and Impa (whether unique, semiclone or clone, I don't care)

I'm largely not that bothered by Zelda's playable represenatation to be honest, and can understand why some popular Zelda characters don't get in. While being a "one-off" or being from an older game might not exactly be 100% roadblocks, it makes sense they wouldn't exactly be high priority.
 

Garteam

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In regards to Zelda, dividing the ballot between characters certainly hasn't helped the series. Strategic voting is a pretty real phenomenon in Smash Speculation, so generally people who want to see a series get a new character will flock to whomever the most likely choice is. Incineroar, for example, didn't get a large amount of support until leak culture built up his perceived chance. Likewise, most DK fans focused on getting Diddy in Brawl before K. Rool or Dixie, since Diddy seemed like the far more likely option than either of those two. Similar thing with Dark Samus and Ridley. Ridley is seen as having more going for him than Dark Samus, so many Dark Samus fans focused on Ridley out of a desire to simply see some sort of new Metroid character.

That's when the kicker kinda comes in, no Zelda character has ever been seen as a major viable candidate since Midna and Toon Link in Brawl. Each character always has some sort of issue that limits their "likeliness" to join the roster: Tingle is hated in the West, Skull Kid is a one-off and doesn't really engage in direct combat, Midna is a one-off character who missed her shot back in Brawl, and Ghirahim is one-off character who missed his shot in Smash for Wii U/3DS and comes from one of the most divisive entries in the series. Zelda support is further divided by those who want to see Ganondorf, Young Link, or Toon Link get their own moveset.

As such, without a unified support base, Zelda characters as a whole have kinda occupied an undesirable place in Smash speculation. On the one hand, most Zelda characters get drowned out by the support for juggernauts like Ridley, K. Rool, or Geno. On the other hand, no Zelda character is seen as enough a dark horse option to get grassroots support as a cool, under-explored idea. Too small to be a fan favourite, too large to be an unexpected idea.

The only exception to this was Skull Kid in late Ultimate speculation, Skull Kid's "chances" were boosted through his assist trophy being M.I.A in E3 and the first direct, along with the general attention that villains seemed to be getting in this game. There's also chair theory, but most people thought that was kinda dumb, so I don't think anyone's mind was really changed by that. As such, Zelda fans finally got the beacon where they could concentrate series support. Unfortunately, Skull Kid basically lost all momentum when he was deconfirmed in the November Direct, so many people just went to back supporting their personal favourite. If Skull Kid kept this surge in popularity during the DLC period, I honestly think he could get in as Sakurai tossing a bone to the fanbase like Ridley, K. Rool, or Banjo. However, given that he didn't, Zelda is left without a unified voice that can get the attention of others.
 

Will

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Still, not realizing that Zelda hasn't gotten a new character in over a literal decade is astounding.

At least Ganon and Zelda got radical changes either in design or moveset.
 

PsychoJosh

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The more I think on it the more I believe EX special moves should be added to Smash as a new mechanic.

I know, I know, I've posted about this before, but I just think the potential is so enormous. Some characters could double the amount of specials they'd have to work with, or even more than that, could make up for specific glaring weaknesses they'd usually have, making for a much more varied and technical fighter.

In case you don't know, EX moves are a mechanic from Street Fighter and other traditional fighting games where for a small amount of meter you can perform an enhanced version of a special move. in Smash this would necessitate the addition of a meter mechanic, but it would open up lots of new opportunities for not just varied gameplay but also cool techniques that do fanservice to the original games and greatly expand everyone's movesets.

I thought of one such mechanic earlier yesterday in which Megaman could have an "absorb data" move as his neutral EX special. This would function similar to Kirby's copy move, except give him a unique variation on a character's ability that's exclusive to him rather than explicitly copying a special move. Essentially it distills their move to a "Megaman" version of itself.

So first, this is how it works. In Smash, we all know how whenever your opponent is KO'd, a big flashy pillar of light briefly appears showing the direction of their death. In keeping with Megaman needing to defeat an opponent to gain their powers, his move would function like this:

A+B causes him to jump in the air and suck in energy around him. Ordinarily it doesn't do anything, it doesn't even have a hitbox, so it can't be used as an attack. If you do this on its own it's just a waste of meter. However, fi you KO an opponent, and then perform this move inside the pillar of light that appears after you KO them, a brief animation plays of him absorbing their data (much like how he jumps in the air and absorbs the data of his enemy whenever he defeats a boss in the Megaman games), and then lands and strikes a pose. Then from then on an ammo gauge appears near his portrait and his "lemon shot" jab and forward tilt are replaced with a new weapon based on the character they just defeated.

So, it'd go like
Mario: Power Flame
Luigi: Ghostly Wisp
Sonic: Sonic Wind
Donkey Kong: Giant Knuckle
Samus: Plasma Beam
Fox: Twin Blaster
Bayonetta: Witch Bullet
Palutena: Heavenly Ray
Zero Suit Samus: Zero Whip

and so on in that vein. I keep thinking of lots of cool new techniques for everyone in the cast with this EX move mechanic, I really wish I had the time and skill to make a playable demo of my Smash vision in Unreal Engine that showcased all this stuff. Of course it'd get shut down by Nintendo in seconds but that's besides the point.
 

Will

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The more I think on it the more I believe EX special moves should be added to Smash as a new mechanic.
That's a little in mind of what the FS Meter was made for, a weaker (not really for some but you get it) variant of Final Smashes kinda like super moves.

I could see EX Moves being an idea in the future. Could replace some of the generic Final Smashes and make way for more innovative ideas. Mario's final smash is so goddamn generic, I could think of five alternate ideas that are better than "unga bunga beeg fire".
 

Dinoman96

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We're talking about Zelda newcomers, but no one's mentioned Tingle.
I did.

Tingle is funny, but the poor guy hardly even exists anymore.

The last time he was in a mainline Zelda title was The Minish Cap, which was back in...2004. And his game series (which never even saw release in the US) hasn't had a new installment since like 2009. Since then, he's mostly just been relegated to cameos and spinoffs. Even then, Nintendo also seemed really relunctant to allow Tingle to be in Hyrule Warriors: the team wanted to put Tingle in the base roster, but Aonuma interveined and told them to pick another character.

It's obvious that Nintendo caught wind of how disliked Tingle is in the west (which is pretty much a kiss of death, considering that Zelda's always been most popular here), and in turn have mostly sidelined him outside of the occasional nod like the outfit in Breath of the Wild.
Prognosis is not good, doc.
 

PsychoJosh

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That's a little in mind of what the FS Meter was made for, a weaker (not really for some but you get it) variant of Final Smashes kinda like super moves.

I could see EX Moves being an idea in the future. Could replace some of the generic Final Smashes and make way for more innovative ideas. Mario's final smash is so goddamn generic, I could think of five alternate ideas that are better than "unga bunga beeg fire".
Yeah, Final Smashes always struck me as kind of silly to begin with. I get the whole appeal of wanting to have super attacks in the game, but for being these huge flashy moves, they're just so... boring. They're not even hype because there's not even any strategy or thought to using them, it's just "press B to make everything die". There's no consistency to them either, some are minigames, some are cutscenes, some are transformations. They basically just amount to a really strong item.

I think if Smash got the overhaul it needs, it would end up being something more arcadey, like Power Stone. Power Stone had one-button super moves but there was thought involved in using them. You wouldn't simply press the button to watch an anime climax. Some moves would cover an area in a very specific shape, some moves would be a projectile that has a specific way of moving, some would be a grab that made stuff happen. The transformation final smashes should also function like the power changes themselves in which they get different but more powerful special moves rather than just the same special moves but they do more damage.

 
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Cutie Gwen

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That's a little in mind of what the FS Meter was made for, a weaker (not really for some but you get it) variant of Final Smashes kinda like super moves.

I could see EX Moves being an idea in the future. Could replace some of the generic Final Smashes and make way for more innovative ideas. Mario's final smash is so goddamn generic, I could think of five alternate ideas that are better than "unga bunga beeg fire".
That ends up begging the question on what button layouts and how to prevent people just saving all their meter for their recoveries like Smash 4 Clouds tended to do

EDIT: This made me realize EX Limit Breaks or EX Menu need to be considered too
 
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kirbsmash

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EX moves can add depth to the gameplay because casuals do not actually care about the mechanics, they care on the looks, the roster, singleplayer, etc
Given that I don't play games as well as others because of my own disability.....eh...this made me felt unease.
 

Will

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That ends up begging the question on what button layouts and how to prevent people just saving all their meter for their recoveries like Smash 4 Clouds tended to do

EDIT: This made me realize EX Limit Breaks or EX Menu need to be considered too
Whatever makes the "smash players are scared of input commands" meme disappear
 

Michael the Spikester

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Alrighty if we get nothing by 10 our only chance this week is tomorrow or its next week and if not next week the week after. If still nothing February it is.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,833
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Given that I don't play games as well as others because of my own disability.....eh...this made me felt unease.
Oh, my apologies, I failed to consider accessibility on that regard. I was thinking more along the lines of a Special button and an EX Special button as I just realized we have 2 jump buttons by default. Again, sorry
 

Gentlepanda

Meme Maestro
Joined
Jul 5, 2014
Messages
12,155
Location
missing
NNID
Panda
Switch FC
2255-1434-0335
we aren't getting a direct until feburary and if i'm wrong then i will quite literally be pleasantly surprised
 
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