Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Mushroomguy12]

The only actual rule for a 3rd party inclusion is they must have originated from a Video Game. That's it.

And they had to have made some appearance on a Nintendo console, cameo or otherwise, preferably within their franchise. That's a rule that no 3rd Party has broken yet, not even Cloud or Joker.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

It's been fun finally not really caring what happens with 5. After the big leaker fall out with them going at each others throats leaks just stopped and people became a lot more civil. It's been a nice change of pace which will probably change very soon. Can't wait for 5 and beyond.

seems worth noting that the SKU numbers might not actually mean much for predicting direct dates

There was a problem fetching the tweet

the richter/dark samus amiibo patch hinting at a 7.0 release date for smash also seems shaky to me, as hero's associated amiibos (that many people thought signified his release date in mid-july) actually released 15 or so days before he did

You can tell you've worked in retail for too long when you REMEMBER the SKU numbers. Coming from someone who's worked retail for 2 years that's a legit thing.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

seems worth noting that the SKU numbers might not actually mean much for predicting direct dates

the richter/dark samus amiibo patch hinting at a 7.0 release date for smash also seems shaky to me, as hero's associated amiibos (that many people thought signified his release date in mid-july) actually released 15 or so days before he did

Yay...And just when we thought we were finally at the end of FP5 things have to take a turn as usual...

Great times! Guess February it is then...I just want FP5 speculation to end already...

 

[GoodGrief741]

Didn't Sakurai say that what matters more for a character is if they have moveset potential not just popularity?

Shantae has a lot more moveset potential than the other 2.

Ahh, good old Sakurai misquoting. He said it's important that characters are fun to play, nothing about moveset potential.

And man, people are gonna use that to pretend more recognizable characters don't still have an advantage til the end of time, huh?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

And they had to have made some appearance on a Nintendo console, cameo or otherwise, preferably within their franchise. That's a rule that no 3rd Party has broken yet, not even Cloud or Joker.

Out of curiosity which SNK games starring Terry were on Nintendo systems before, barring SNK Heroines?

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

I think when it comes to Smash, the only fanrule is...

Expect the unexpected.

Because between Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate, they kept defying expectations each and every time. Every time there's some new fanrule up to try and narrow down suspects, these fanrules keep getting broken. The only actual rule for a 3rd party inclusion is they must have originated from a Video Game. That's it.

Of course seeing peoples reactions when a supposed fanrule is destroyed is always amusing.

I've been saying this but people still want to cling to those stupid fan rules

 

[Guynamednelson]

Out of curiosity which SNK games starring Terry were on Nintendo systems before, barring SNK Heroines?

SNES ports of the Fatal Fury series, KoF games on GBA.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Out of curiosity which SNK games starring Terry were on Nintendo systems before, barring SNK Heroines?

Just boot up the eshop and see all that plus probably more. The Wii VC had a whole NEOGEO section too

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Ahh, good old Sakurai misquoting. He said it's important that characters are fun to play, nothing about moveset potential.

And man, people are gonna use that to pretend more recognizable characters don't still have an advantage til the end of time, huh?

That still kinda gives more points to Shantae, like I said she has more potential for a better moveset than Shovel knight and Undertale characters do.

Out of curiosity which SNK games starring Terry were on Nintendo systems before, barring SNK Heroines?

The fatal fury games are all on switch and Nintendo has gotten a couple of the SNK vs Capcom games.

 

[Deleted member]

I just simply can't see a world where Shantae is made playable while Shovel Knight and Undertale are only ATs/Mii costumes.

"But she's been around longer!" Yeah, so what? SK and especially UT are miles ahead of her in terms of popularity and they couldn't make it to playable status.

She may not be on the same level as sk and ut but she’s pretty popular if you look at fan polls. Top 5 and 10
Also sk was made by ex wayforward devs

 

[Sari]

Out of curiosity which SNK games starring Terry were on Nintendo systems before, barring SNK Heroines?

Fatal Fury was on the SNES and a good chunk of the FF/KoF games were on the Wii.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Guess February it is then huh guys?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Out of curiosity which SNK games starring Terry were on Nintendo systems before, barring SNK Heroines?

Fatal Fury 1, 2, and Special were on SNES. And there were some weird KoF ports on Game Boy and Game Boy Advance. And the KoF Collection: Orochi Saga released on Wii.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

She may not be on the same level as sk and ut but she’s pretty popular if you look at fan polls. Top 5 and 10
Also sk was made by ex wayforward devs

Shovel Knight is also an assist trophy. I'm an firm believer assists won't and can't be promoted.

 

[StarBot]

Are people really seriously trying to agure that "Sakurai has a FE bais XD" again but trying to use those stupid Guidances as evidence

 

[lordvaati]

I don't think that all of the DLC characters will be from entirely new third party franchises because they would eventually be drowned in licensing fees.

Furthermore the 3rd Party pattern only applies to the Fighters Pass- the additional fighters outside the pass are not bound by such rules.

Only reason some think otherwise is based on Sakurai's statement that he wants to bring more worlds to Smash....but there are some Nintendo worlds not in Smash yet either so yeah.

 

[Deleted member]

She may not be on the same level as sk and ut but she’s pretty popular if you look at fan polls. Top 5 and 10
Also sk was made by ex wayforward devs

the most reliable and accurate source: fan polls

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I think when it comes to Smash, the only fanrule is...

Expect the unexpected.

Because between Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate, they kept defying expectations each and every time. Every time there's some new fanrule up to try and narrow down suspects, these fanrules keep getting broken. The only actual rule for a 3rd party inclusion is they must have originated from a Video Game. That's it.

Of course seeing peoples reactions when a supposed fanrule is destroyed is always amusing.

Except for two.

Non-gaming characters and assists being promoted (Which would just be a waste anyways since what would be the point of making them an assist only to suddenly make them playable?). The latter is just people being in denial not accepting their character isn't playable.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Didn't Sakurai say that what matters more for a character is if they have moveset potential not just popularity?

Shantae has a lot more moveset potential than the other 2.

Undertale you might have a point, but I call bull**** on Shovel Knight on having less moveset potential than Shantae. Shovel Knight has tons of potential between all the different moves he utilizes like the Belmonts in terms of the special and the Shovel moveset practically adapts itself to the point where he works great as a super involved assist trophy.

Shantae is arguably hurt worse because she's so heavily based around transformations, which would be harder to translate into Smash since the whole "transformations gimmick" has traditionally been a point people push for on forums, but hasn't really translated to Smash characters in any major way yet.

I'd say, at worst, they're on equal ground.

Guess February it is then huh guys?

Why do you say that?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Why do you say that?

Because of what Gentlepanda posted.

 

[Opossum]

Except for two.

Non-gaming characters and assists being promoted (Which would just be a waste anyways since what would be the point of making them an assist only to suddenly make them playable?). The latter is just people being in denial not accepting their character isn't playable.

There's a major difference here. Unlike non-game characters, Sakurai never said anything about Assists being unable to promote. So sorry, it's just a fan rule.

 

[Flyboy]

Out of curiosity which SNK games starring Terry were on Nintendo systems before, barring SNK Heroines?

Fatal Fury has been on Nintendo since the SNES. Basically every single SNK arcade game was also on the Switch eShop from day one, which is partly why SNK supporters were seeing them as a dark horse - they sold super well. Also, Neo Geo games hit the Wii Virtual Console back in the day and it was a big deal. A lot of people got their first introduction to SNK that way.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Because of what Gentlepanda posted.

That information still doesn't tell us it will happen in February, just that it could happen in February at best. There's not really a reason to expect one or the other right now.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

There's a major difference here. Unlike non-game characters, Sakurai never said anything about Assists being unable to promote. So sorry, it's just a fan rule.

I just still don't understand why if you make an character an assist you'd suddenly make them playable. Again that would had just been a waste of time then when they should had made them playable to begin with.

If this was the case they would had been doing this since Brawl.

That information still doesn't tell us it will happen in February, just that it could happen in February at best. There's not really a reason to expect one or the other right now.

Keeping expectations low never the less to avoid disappointment.

 

[DarthEnderX]

>see’s posts about spirits having no chance

How many times will I be hearing this during smash speculation?

Until it's proven to be false.

I just still don't understand why if you make an character an assist you'd suddenly make them playable. Again that would had just been a waste of time then when they should had made them playable to begin with.

Unless they make use of the AT's assets in the playable character.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

There's a major difference here. Unlike non-game characters, Sakurai never said anything about Assists being unable to promote. So sorry, it's just a fan rule.

Not to mention, there's ways they could potentially make an Assist Trophy character playable without "wasting" the dev work that went into the Assist Trophy version.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Not to mention, there's ways they could potentially make an Assist Trophy character playable without "wasting" the dev work that went into the Assist Trophy version.

As much as I complain about Isaac's AT being boring, it does have an advantage: If they're concerned about the stuff the AT could do being gone, it can work with Garret.

 

[Opossum]

I just still don't understand why if you make an character an assist you'd suddenly make them playable. Again that would had just been a waste of time then when they should had made them playable to begin with.

Keeping expectations low never the less to avoid disappointment.

That argument makes no sense. They likely didn't plan on a second DLC season when the roster was decided. So, they may go back and work on a character they didn't consider high enough priority then, but may reconsider now. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

Do I think it'll happen? Not really, no. I highly doubt any current Assist, Spirit, or Mii Costume will be upgraded. But to brand it with the same impossibility status as a non-game character is incredibly stupid.

 

[StarBot]

Hey guys what’s...

>see’s posts about spirits having no chance

*sigh*

How many times will I be hearing this during smash speculation?

I just want this fan rule to end. I just want my shantae

I have seen more people like you screaming about people who believe that "fanrule" then actually people believing it

 

[Schnee117]

I just still don't understand why if you make an character an assist you'd suddenly make them playable. Again that would had just been a waste of time then when they should had made them playable to begin with.

Pokken did it just fine with Croagunk.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I just simply can't see a world where Shantae is made playable while Shovel Knight and Undertale are only ATs/Mii costumes.

"But she's been around longer!" Yeah, so what? SK and especially UT are miles ahead of her in terms of popularity and they couldn't make it to playable status.

A lot of people couldn't see a world in which Waluigi was an Assist Trophy and Piranha Plant was a playable character but that happened anyway.

 

[StarBot]

I just still don't understand why if you make an character an assist you'd suddenly make them playable. Again that would had just been a waste of time then when they should had made them playable to begin with.

I love how this thread literally just had a debate about Assist Throphies and how they also ment to be representation, despite how much hardcore fans don't care for them

And I guess that logic dosn't applies to Spirits

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So did something finally happen? What's all this I'm hearing about February?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Also, is there just like a lot of bad blood between Shovel Knight and Shantae that I'm unaware of? Because I've seen a lot of Shantae support that also tends to push back against Shovel Knight and specifically try to force a point about him "only having one game" (you know, despite the fact that Shovel Knight is a platform for more releases that actually have 5 total games at this point) or try really hard to leverage the fact that Shantae was created so much earlier than he was. It just comes off as odd every time I see it.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I have seen more people like you screaming about people who believe that "fanrule" then actually people believing it

Hmm, I guess you need to read more of the thread then.

And I guess that logic dosn't applies to Spirits

No, it really doesn't. Spirits are PNGs, Assist Trophies are full on models.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I love how this thread literally just had a debate about Assist Throphies and how they also ment to be representation, despite how much hardcore fans don't care for them

And I guess that logic dosn't applies to Spirits

Except Assists are on a whole other level compared to Spirits which are the still images of characters.

So did something finally happen? What's all this I'm hearing about February?

Gentlepanda posted an tweet regarding how the Gamespot leak regarding an January direct might had been an error. Look back on the previous page.

 

[Deleted member]

A lot of people couldn't see a world in which Waluigi was an Assist Trophy and Piranha Plant was a playable character but that happened anyway.

please don't start this again

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Also, is there just like a lot of bad blood between Shovel Knight and Shantae that I'm unaware of? Because I've seen a lot of Shantae support that also tends to push back against Shovel Knight and specifically try to force a point about him "only having one game" (you know, despite the fact that Shovel Knight is a platform for more releases that actually have 5 total games at this point) or try really hard to leverage the fact that Shantae was created so much earlier than he was. It just comes off as odd every time I see it.

Probably the same reason Smash fans pick fights with anyone. They're afraid of the competition

 

[EricTheGamerman]

So did something finally happen? What's all this I'm hearing about February?

No, people are just being kind of pessimistic when there's zero indication as to when things will be announced and there's also more anecdotal evidence that something is happening sooner rather than later with how many updates seem to be imminent for titles and the Switch (plus lots of little retail listings are starting to pop up again).

 

[Mushroomguy12]

please don't start this again

I actually don't care about the merits of either of those characters within this argument, I was just pointing out that there are unexpected inclusions and exclusions within Smash and that just because one character gets in doesn't mean its an insult to another nor do characters need other characters to get in first before they can get in, referring to people thinking that Shantae NEEDS Shovel Knight and Undertale to get in first before she can.

If SOMEONE ELSE wants to start picking apart my comment and start turning it into a debate, then that's ON THEM. You can blame the next person who replies to my comment with a completely off topic rebuttal for "starting it".