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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Arcanir

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Sugiyama being stingy to the point you had to mute the music if you wanted to stream the games was known when Brave was first obtained. Also the reason behind the SE characters not being dubbed is because Nintendo of America cheaped out as seen with other stuff involving VA's like Palutena and Magnus getting replaced because their VAs wanted to actually be respected and some VAs having to go uncredited
I'm still a little miffed that they didn't unionize Smash. I know it's not surprising since it took them four years to unionize a game again after Codename STEAM with Dragalia Lost, but the fact that we still had to have caveats attached to characters like Palutena is very disappointing, particularly as a fan of Ali Hillis' take on the character.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I'm still a little miffed that they didn't unionize Smash. I know it's not surprising since it took them four years to unionize a game again after Codename STEAM with Dragalia Lost, but the fact that we still had to have caveats attached to characters like Palutena is very disappointing, particularly as a fan of Ali Hillis' take on the character.
Smash was their biggest game of 2018 too to the point it was all they ever talked about for most of E3 and the rest of the year, NoA are cheap ****s
 
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Microsoft is oddly enough the DLC company with the less spirits and the least amount of Mii costumes (as in none).
 

Cosmic77

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Sugiyama being stingy to the point you had to mute the music if you wanted to stream the games was known when Brave was first obtained. Also the reason behind the SE characters not being dubbed is because Nintendo of America cheaped out as seen with other stuff involving VA's like Palutena and Magnus getting replaced because their VAs wanted to actually be respected and some VAs having to go uncredited
Is there a source for NoA not wanting to pay the VAs, because I find that to be weird when they were willing to pay literally the entire main cast of P5.

"Like every other third-party"?

You realize that Dragon Quest alone has almost as much content as Bandai-Namco as a whole, right?
That's not really a huge accomplishment, seeing how Pac-Man is their only character. Unless they start dipping into the weird Pac-Man spin-offs, I don't see how they could've added much more. There's hardly any characters or music to begin with, which is probably why they had to add content from other Namco arcade games.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Is there a source for NoA not wanting to pay the VAs, because I find that to be weird when they were willing to pay literally the entire main cast of P5.



That's not really a huge accomplishment, seeing how Pac-Man is their only character. Unless they start dipping into the weird Pac-Man spin-offs, I don't see how they could've added much more. There's hardly any characters or music, which is probably why they had to add content from other Namco arcade games.
The fact Steve Burton never got contacted, the facts I mentioned about the VAs and how as Arcanir mentioned Nintendo chose not to pick union actors for quite a while. You really think Square said "Fine but you're not allowed to give the characters English voices ever"? Burton's contract stated that he couldn't be replaced as long as the contract was up too
 
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Is there a source for NoA not wanting to pay the VAs, because I find that to be weird when they were willing to pay literally the entire main cast of P5.
Steve Burton was not contacted to reprise his role for Smash due to his status as a union actor and David Hayter is listed as a "special guest" in Brawl's credits for the same reason. Pit's voice actor also goes uncredited because he's union, and it's against his contract to be credited in non-union productions.

It's just NoA not being willing to work with unions.
 
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Hadokeyblade

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They changed Palutenas voice? I didn't notice

Microsoft is oddly enough the DLC company with the less spirits and the least amount of Mii costumes (as in none).
Master chief and Steve? would have made great mii outfits, though I guess they didn't want to shut the door for those guys?

Is there a source for NoA not wanting to pay the VAs, because I find that to be weird when they were willing to pay literally the entire main cast of P5.



That's not really a huge accomplishment, seeing how Pac-Man is their only character. Unless they start dipping into the weird Pac-Man spin-offs, I don't see how they could've added much more. There's hardly any characters or music to begin with, which is probably why they had to add content from other Namco arcade games.
I don't remember much from the Pacmab world games but I always found it kinda weird that there isn't much from those games in smash.
 

Dinoman96

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Well we know SOMETHING is in the work for NieR at the minute though Sakurai himself has expressed disinterest in the whole Nintendo significance discourse
said it before but i think nintendo relevancy flew out the window the moment joker was added without a single reference to Persona Q/Q2
Keep in mind, Sakurai has actually addressed this issue in the past:

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

Besides that, it might be something like a courtesy to include a character who has the experience of being on a Nintendo platform.
https://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

I might have had misgivings if Cloud had never appeared on a Nintendo console in any form, though.
It's definitely not a hard and fast rule, but it does seem to be something he considers when including characters.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Keep in mind, Sakurai has actually addressed this issue in the past:

https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/



https://www.sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/



It's definitely not a hard and fast rule, but it does seem to be something he considers when including characters.
At the same time, Sakurai saying he might have had misgivings not only shows how lax he is as Cloud's only Nintendinappearances were cameos until Smash 4 and how he said it. Not "I would have", which means it's a fact, bit "I might have" meaning he isn't even too sure himself, if Sakurai's lax enough to not outright say it mattered then chances are he'd end up letting it slide 5 years later
 

TheYungLink

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I see we are correctly disappointed that Smash, one of the biggest Nintendo games for every console generation, isn't a union project. Always nice to remind ourselves of this.

However, I'm not sure it's 100% NoA's fault, or Nintendo of Japan for perhaps not giving enough of a budget to NoA for, at the very least, voice acting performances. I haven't read anything for or against this, but yeah, it sucks either way.

I still remember when some chuds were angry at Steve Burton for being a union VA, as if the multimillion video game juggernaut wasn't responsible for not meeting his reasonable demand of "please pay me what I think I'm owed". It's always bittersweet seeing other VAs lend their talents to Smash with the caveat that they can't be in the credits for this reason.
 
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Dinoman96

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There's a handful of Banjo/Rare characters that could of made for good Mii outfits.

Brawler: Rash, Fulgore, Jinjo
Gunner: Joanna Dark, Conker, JFG twins
Swordfighter: Spinal, Mumbo Jumbo

It really is bizarre that Banjo's the only IP introduced in the Fighters Pass that has no corresponding Mii outfits. Not even any outfits based on the assets from Spiral Mountain, like Mumbo and Jinjo.
 
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Yeah, I completely understand why Steve Burton didn’t get involved with Smash, and really appreciate the existence of unions regarding voice acting.

I can see this whole deal affecting many other kinds of characters too. Spyro for example, who is voiced by Tom Kenny (who J heard is unionized).

Companies really need to improve this regard quite a lot, since those voice actors deserver a fair payment for their jobs.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I see we are correctly disappointed that Smash, one of the biggest Nintendo games for every console generation, isn't a union project. Always nice to remind ourselves of this.

However, I'm not sure it's 100% NoA's fault, or Nintendo of Japan for perhaps not giving enough of a budget to NoA for, at the very least, voice acting performances. I haven't read anything for or against this, but yeah, it sucks either way.

I still remember when some chuds were angry at Steve Burton for being a union VA, as if the multimillion video game juggernaut wasn't responsible for not meeting his reasonable demand of "please pay me what I think I'm owed". It's always bittersweet seeing other VAs lend their talents to Smash with the caveat that they can't be in the credits for this reason.
Only thing I disagree with here is the "What I think I'm owed" part as voice acting is such an important part of most games, cause it's, you know, ACTING and should be compensated for properly
 

StormC

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I just wish they would give us options to toggle languages for specific characters instead of it being all-or-nothing. Give me Jun Fukuyama's Joker please.
 
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Yeah, I completely understand why Steve Burton didn’t get involved with Smash, and really appreciate the existence of unions regarding voice acting.

I can see this whole deal affecting many other kinds of characters too. Spyro for example, who is voiced by Tom Kenny (who J heard is unionized).

Companies really need to improve this regard quite a lot, since those voice actors deserver a fair payment for their jobs.
Still waiting for Developers to unionize. And today I learned that Spyro is not only voiced by SpongeBob, but was also voiced by Elijah Wood for a time. Weird.

I just wish they would give us options to toggle languages for specific characters instead of it being all-or-nothing. Give me Jun Fukuyama's Joker please.
I like Ray Chase significantly more than I was expecting, but this should've been a thing so I could get Hikaru Midorikawa back.
 
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Only thing I disagree with here is the "What I think I'm owed" part as voice acting is such an important part of most games, cause it's, you know, ACTING and should be compensated for properly
I agree.

Many people have worked hard to get into the world of voice acting, and as a key part of many kinds of productions it really deserves to get the credit it needs.

Not paying voice actors for their work is honestly really worrysome.
 

Hadokeyblade

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I'm still annoyed that Sonics line are archived audio instead of just getting Roger to redo Jason's lines.
 

Night Gale

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Square Enix recommended and gave the approval for the four Dragon Quest Hero alternate costumes; Masahiro Sakurai only intended to include Luminary. The reason they seem stingy with their music is because of licensing; the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest composers own the rights to the songs.

Sakurai noted how the company is cooperative and he recently did a livestream with a bunch of Square Enix employees. Negotiations are easy af when you're surrounded by people who speak your language, live nearby, and hang out with regularly. Companies are one thing, but nothing is friendlier than goddamn peer groups.

Third time I've said this but it's always relevant.

Anywho, someone dared me to make a Vin Diesel move list and I'm going to post it for s***s and giggles. Nothing will ever surpass the creativity that is goddamn Ridge Racer, but every time I attempt this it is pure gold, so it should be entertaining.
 
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D

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I'm still annoyed that Sonics line are archived audio instead of just getting Roger to redo Jason's lines.
Should've at least updated his archived audio in Ultimate if they weren't going to redo it. He could've had "gotta go fast" as a taunt thanks to LEGO Dimensions.
 
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Will

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Imagine defending that and covering your ears of said criticism because you desperately want more characters form a company
You talking to me? :191: Like, you're seriously arguing with the guy who had his one-liner and left instead of everyone else?
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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Square Enix recommended and gave the approval for the four Dragon Quest Hero alternate costumes; Masahiro Sakurai only intended to include Luminary. The reason they seem stingy with their music is because of licensing; the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest composers own the rights to the songs.

Sakurai noted how the company is cooperative and he recently did a livestream with a bunch of Square Enix employees. Negotiations are easy af when you're surrounded by people who speak your language, live nearby, and hang out with regularly. Companies are one thing, but nothing is friendlier than goddamn peer groups.

Third time I've said this but it's always relevant.
Wait.

So you're telling me that Square Enix isn't a greedy corporate pig of a company whose sole existence is to live for profit?

Surely you must be joking.
 
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TheYungLink

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Only thing I disagree with here is the "What I think I'm owed" part as voice acting is such an important part of most games, cause it's, you know, ACTING and should be compensated for properly
Yeah I only included "I think" because I dunno the exact rate that should be standard and such, just that VAs don't get the benefits they should when working on non union projects.

Someone else mentioned that developers don't have unions either and yes, that is a Wailord-sized problem with the video games industry (and certain sectors of tech companies(!!!)). I only left it out because I was talking about voice acting specifically.
 

StormC

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Anyway, I think it's most likely that Square is just weird about the Final Fantasy license in general. No Spirits being the biggest red flag. I think Nomura has partial ownership of Final Fantasy art that he drew?

Outside of music, DQ comes way ahead on FF in terms of content.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Anyway, I think it's most likely that Square is just weird about the Final Fantasy license in general. No Spirits being the biggest red flag. I think Nomura has partial ownership of Final Fantasy art that he drew?

Outside of music, DQ comes way ahead on FF in terms of content.
Square has chosen not to go after Team Four Star's parody of FF7 and yeah, Nomura has ownership of art alongside Uematsu having ownership of songs he composed
 
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Anyway, I think it's most likely that Square is just weird about the Final Fantasy license in general. No Spirits being the biggest red flag. I think Nomura has partial ownership of Final Fantasy art that he drew?

Outside of music, DQ comes way ahead on FF in terms of content.
Indeed.

It also helps that Akira Toriyama seems to overall be a cooler person to negotiate with for these kinds of stuff such as spirits.

I think the only thing close to being bad involving Toriyama is that he hates to be on camera. But even that isn’t really bad and actually understandable.
 

Lighteni

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Anyway, I think it's most likely that Square is just weird about the Final Fantasy license in general. No Spirits being the biggest red flag. I think Nomura has partial ownership of Final Fantasy art that he drew?

Outside of music, DQ comes way ahead on FF in terms of content.
FF7’s ownership is all split up is the issue. Nomura owns the art, Uematsu owns the music, Square owns the game itself. Of course it’s good that they let the original creators retain ownership, but for a project like Smash it makes obtaining the original art and music too complicated.
 

StormC

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Indeed.

It also helps that Akira Toriyama seems to overall be a cooler person to negotiate with for these kinds of stuff such as spirits.

I think the only thing close to being bad involving Toriyama is that he hates to be on camera. But even that isn’t really bad and actually understandable.
Does Toriyama have to be negotiated with for DQ content in Smash? I guess Bird Studio is involved.
 

Lighteni

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Does Toriyama have to be negotiated with for DQ content in Smash? I guess Bird Studio is involved.
Most likely not. As far as I’m aware, Toriyama doesn’t own the art he makes for games. It’s why you see Chrono Trigger’s art get used for marketing more than, say, FF7.
 
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Most likely not. As far as I’m aware, Toriyama doesn’t own the art he makes for games. It’s why you see Chrono Trigger’s art get used for marketing more than, say, FF7.
Oh, didn’t know that.
 

TheYungLink

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Everyone is rightfully miffed that Final Fantasy VII content (let alone general Final Fantasy content) is so sparse, but I still like what they did with what they had.

In World of Light, in the Sacred Land, the Zelda area, the one who guards the Master Sword is Cloud. He's the one who gets the honor, and, better yet, it's mandatory to unlock Young Link before fighting him, allowing you to reenact those OoT vs. FF7 wars of the late 90s.

There are no Final Fantasy VII spirits beyond Cloud's Smash renders, but Cloud DOES appear in a Challenge Board photo, spoofing Aeris' death, that's funny / sad.

Also, if you're unlocking characters solely through the multiplayer, Cloud is the very last third-party character you unlock, to cap off on the whole "it's crazy that he's really here with everyone else, isn't it?" sentiment around his inclusion.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Everyone is rightfully miffed that Final Fantasy VII content (let alone general Final Fantasy content) is so sparse, but I still like what they did with what they had.

In World of Light, in the Sacred Land, the Zelda area, the one who guards the Master Sword is Cloud. He's the one who gets the honor, and, better yet, it's mandatory to unlock Young Link before fighting him, allowing you to reenact those OoT vs. FF7 wars of the late 90s.

There are no Final Fantasy VII spirits beyond Cloud's Smash renders, but Cloud DOES appear in a Challenge Board photo, spoofing Aeris' death, that's funny / sad.

Also, if you're unlocking characters solely through the multiplayer, Cloud is the very last third-party character you unlock, to cap off on the whole "it's crazy that he's really here with everyone else, isn't it?" sentiment around his inclusion.
For real I played Smash with my friends and we unlocked that challenge board panel in a multiplayer match and at least 4 people yelled
 

Lighteni

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The biggest tragedy of Final Fantasy’s copyright being split up is that you rarely get to see Amano’s gorgeous art.
361C6ABE-5DCF-457A-9A0D-67FD0EAF3DFE.jpeg
I would have loved to see some of this rendered out and made into spirits.
 
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I just hope that we get Amiibo for each one of the DQ Heroes.

I’m not just going to buy them if they happen, I’m gonna legit pull an Ace Attorney with my parents to preorder them from day 1.
 

Lighteni

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He probably has to be credited for various legal reasons. Perhaps he owns some of the designs but not all of them? Looking around I can’t find any reference either way to his ownership of his art and designs. Which makes sense, considering Toriyama doesn’t exactly seem like the type of person to discuss copyright in an interview.
 

Cosmic77

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I just hope that we get Amiibo for each one of the DQ Heroes.

I’m not just going to buy them if they happen, I’m gonna legit pull an Ace Attorney with my parents to preorder them from day 1.
I'd be happy with that, but it's a little pricey for people to purchase amiibo variants all at once. All four of them would be a $70 purchase unless they do a bundle and sell it slightly cheaper like they did with the Champions in other regions.

I think we might just get Joker, Hero (Luminary), and Banjo in the next wave.
 
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