Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Guynamednelson]

"Don't worry, the starting roster is exactly the same as Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. We've just removed all the unlockable characters."

Minus Samus, because Link already has multiple projectiles.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

the former for me

Splatoon 2 getting an update SIX MONTHS after Final Fest is a big deal, I'd think

Hopefully you are right because I'd really like you too.

 

[Icedragonadam]

January 6th-10th is probably the most likely week to have a direct if amiibo theory follows, plus a major Smash patch coming on average every 2 months.

 

[Nemuresu]

I still lean on Corrin not really selling all that well as a DLC simply because he was the only controversial inclusion at the time. Everyone else had a good reception, and when you have the likes of Mewtwo and Cloud, why would the blatant promotional character come out on top?

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn’t remove Corrin, tbh.

Fire Emblem fans seem to agree that Smash Corrin is better than Fates Corrin, so I wouldn’t drop out the apparently best version of the character.

 

[PSIGuy]

People were bringing up the selection process and ‘lists’- I thought that was a misinterpretation based on the fact Sakurai said Nintendo made the selection and then ran it by him? That doesn’t sound like it means they picked 10~ characters and let him pick, more like they picked all 5 and made sure he could work with them before they started development. That’s a selection too.

I can only assume there was a lot of boring market analysis and meetings with company representatives before they even wrote a single character name down. Makes me wonder if the dev team get a say in even a single DLC character, but maybe Nintendo revoked their right to do that after they picked bloody Corrin last time.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

People were bringing up the selection process and ‘lists’- I thought that was a misinterpretation based on the fact Sakurai said Nintendo made the selection and then ran it by him? That doesn’t sound like it means they picked 10~ characters and let him pick, more like they picked all 5 and made sure he could work with them before they started development. That’s a selection too.

I can only assume there was a lot of boring market analysis and meetings with company representatives before they even wrote a single character name down. Makes me wonder if the dev team get a say in even a single DLC character, but maybe Nintendo revoked their right to do that after they picked bloody Corrin last time.

Put simply, what you said in the first paragraph could also be the case. It's possible they had to dump a character or two they wanted to try cause Sakurai couldn't make them work. One possibility is they made a list, but only told Sakurai a character first. Or, to put it more clearly, say they said Fulgore. Sakurai said no, so they said Banjo next(hypothetical, I do believe Banjo was chosen before Fulgore was. Maybe Master Chief and/or Steve could've been first, but eh).

It's possible Sakurai is not giving much information to keep it as vague as possible to surprise us all. There's also stuff he can't say anyway. Making Nintendo look bad is not a good idea. His answer seems to make it clear that both have a major say in it, which is a lot of information for us.

 

[Cosmic77]

I wouldn’t remove Corrin, tbh.

Fire Emblem fans seem to agree that Smash Corrin is better than Fates Corrin, so I wouldn’t drop out the apparently best version of the character.

Even though I think FE would definitely lose a character or two in the next Smash if cuts extend farther than just third-parties, I have no idea who would get cut. I would've said Roy, but now Chrom exists.

Seems like Corrin is the only character most people would be fine losing, as much as disagree. Then again, I hardly have a connection with any of the FE characters, so I wouldn't lose sleep over Corrin.

People were bringing up the selection process and ‘lists’- I thought that was a misinterpretation based on the fact Sakurai said Nintendo made the selection and then ran it by him? That doesn’t sound like it means they picked 10~ characters and let him pick, more like they picked all 5 and made sure he could work with them before they started development. That’s a selection too.

I can only assume there was a lot of boring market analysis and meetings with company representatives before they even wrote a single character name down. Makes me wonder if the dev team get a say in even a single DLC character, but maybe Nintendo revoked their right to do that after they picked bloody Corrin last time.

Even in Smash 4, I think Nintendo had a small influence. To this day, I still believe they were the ones largely responsible for Bayonetta. Learning that she was decided on as early as the first week after the ballot only strengthened my belief in that theory.

I'm also sure Hero wasn't something Sakurai chose, given how involved SE was and how this was all orginally going to be in the base game. I'm sure Sakurai would've tried adding DQ content sooner or later, but the hard push for people to play DQXIS made this feel like Nintendo and SE teaming up to promote a Switch game.

Nothing more than theories for now, but I feel like both could easily be true.

 

[Guynamednelson]

given how involved SE was

They actually considered Slime, and Sakurai wanted Hero to be the DQ rep.

 

[Will]

I would've said Roy, but now Chrom exists.

take out roy but leave chrom

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Never forget the brief period of time between Hero and Banjo

Thank god, I avoided /r/smashbros and this site and just watched the rest of the direct during that time.

 

[SKX31]

People were bringing up the selection process and ‘lists’- I thought that was a misinterpretation based on the fact Sakurai said Nintendo made the selection and then ran it by him? That doesn’t sound like it means they picked 10~ characters and let him pick, more like they picked all 5 and made sure he could work with them before they started development. That’s a selection too.

I can only assume there was a lot of boring market analysis and meetings with company representatives before they even wrote a single character name down. Makes me wonder if the dev team get a say in even a single DLC character, but maybe Nintendo revoked their right to do that after they picked bloody Corrin last time.

There's a major reason why I've been bringing up Furukawa - Nintendo's President and Ultimate's Executive Director - like a broken record. He's very much a major force in the negotiations. Not least since he's a marketing guy. Market analysis were not the only thing discussed though - building / reaffirming bridges between companies is another major factor. (SEGA, S-E, Microsoft and the three Chinese joint venture owners of SNK, those being Hong Kong-based LeYou Technologies, and the Chinese companies 37 Games and Orient Securities. Wouldn't be surprised if Tencent were also involved in the SNK talks, since Nintendo were very likely talking to them at the time about releasing the Switch in China and Tencent has supported SNK quite a lot).

Burning any sort of bridges with Sakurai is also no bueno: he's a bonafide VIP within Nintendo, and he's gotten there since Smash has sold 5+ million each and every time. Yes, even Wii U did that on its own. And Ultimate's not just the second biggest title on the Switch - it has the title of biggest fighting game of all time. It's not just about the market numbers though - Smash doesn't just have its own fanbase here and other places, but news on it is treated as major events. That gives Sakurai a lot of influence - and Nintendo recognizes that. Furukawa and the other execs did adjust after the reactions to Corrin were mixed to say the least.

 

[Deleted member]

Thank god, I avoided /r/smashbros and this site and just watched the rest of the direct during that time.

I was too hyped about Eight and the Fantastic Four in UA3 to even bother checking Smashboards, lol.

 

[BZL8]

New Sakurai pic. I love that PotD is back.

pic.twitter.com/mWWJ1TqEwy

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) December 29, 2019

 

[toonito]

January 6th-10th is probably the most likely week to have a direct if amiibo theory follows, plus a major Smash patch coming on average every 2 months.

the original amiibo theory which was a DLC Fighter comes out the Tue/Wed after an amiibo wave comes out on the previous Friday has since been disproven since IIRC both Banjo and Terry released before the amiibo waves in September and November.

However, the updated amiibo theory would be DLC fighter is to come out the same month as an amiibo wave which has been true of every character in the Fighter Pass so far. For this updated theory to hold up FP5 has to be released by January 31st since the Dark Samus and Richter amiibo hit stores January 17th.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Minus Samus, because Link already has multiple projectiles.

Ah, I see they're also fitting in with Marvel vs Capcom Infinite’s theme of having no female characters.

 

[wynn728]

People were bringing up the selection process and ‘lists’- I thought that was a misinterpretation based on the fact Sakurai said Nintendo made the selection and then ran it by him? That doesn’t sound like it means they picked 10~ characters and let him pick, more like they picked all 5 and made sure he could work with them before they started development. That’s a selection too.

I can only assume there was a lot of boring market analysis and meetings with company representatives before they even wrote a single character name down. Makes me wonder if the dev team get a say in even a single DLC character, but maybe Nintendo revoked their right to do that after they picked bloody Corrin last time.

Again, seems too coincidental that if Nintendo picked all the DLC they just happen to include Terry & Joker. I feel people following Sakurai words way too much and just wants to think that Sakurai had zero involvement in the DLC.

I mean, Sakurai also said that they won't do another story mode in Smash 4 because people upload the cutscenes to YouTube when clearly they were working on two separate games during the time.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ah, I see they're also fitting in with Marvel vs Capcom Infinite’s theme of having no female characters.

Black Widow, Captain Marvel, Chun-Li, Gamora, and Morrigan: "Am I a joke to you?"

 

[Mamboo07]

Black Widow, Captain Marvel, Chun-Li, Gamora, and Morrigan: "Am I a joke to you?"

Don't forgot female Monster Hunter.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Again, seems too coincidental that if Nintendo picked all the DLC they just happen to include Terry & Joker. I feel people following Sakurai words way too much and just wants to think that Sakurai had zero involvement in the DLC.

I mean, Sakurai also said that they won't do another story mode in Smash 4 because people upload the cutscenes to YouTube when clearly they were working on two separate games during the time.

It's not remotely coincidental. Terry is from a heavily exclaimed series and Persona 5 is one of the best selling games in the series. At worst it was a list of characters that Sakurai chose due to his own personal like of it. But we have a specific statement that Nintendo did indeed pick the characters first.

Also, lol, zero involvement? We know he was always involved. We don't know how much it was involved. We know that Nintendo directly picked the DLC, and Sakurai decided how a character works. We know none of the details between those two points. It's too vague on how everything works.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Keep Corrin when it comes to FE cuts.

I wouldn't mind Roy going tbh.

 

[Ben Holt]

Keep Corrin when it comes to FE cuts.

I wouldn't mind Roy going tbh.

I had to pay for him in 4.
Don't make me do that again.
NO CUTS!!!! EVER!
Everyone is here should be the default from here on out.
3 out of the 7 Smash 4 DLC characters were literally cut characters that should have been included from the get-go.

 

[Mamboo07]

What are you talking about, guys?

 

[osby]

I had to pay for him in 4.
Don't make me do that again.
NO CUTS!!!! EVER!
Everyone is here should be the default from here on out.
3 out of the 7 Smash 4 DLC characters were literally cut characters that should have been included from the get-go.

That's not a feasible expectation from a development team unless they literally mod the next game on top of Ultimate.

I don't see why people want cuts so much and why they keep bringing it up in a newcomer speculation thread but that doesn't mean Sakurai can make a Smash game with like 80 veterans and still add meaningful content.

 

[DarthEnderX]

NO CUTS!!!! EVER!
Everyone is here should be the default from here on out.

Testify!

That's not a feasible expectation from a development team unless they literally mod the next game on top of Ultimate.

Then do that.

*I* don't need a complete engine revamp ever again.

 

[Ben Holt]

That's not a feasible expectation from a development team unless they literally mod the next game on top of Ultimate.

I don't see why people want cuts so much and why they keep bringing it up in a newcomer speculation thread but that doesn't mean Sakurai can make a Smash game with like 80 veterans and still add meaningful content.

I mean, if Smash Ultimate just becomes a platform like RuneScape, World of Warcraft, or Team Fortress 2, and we just keep getting extra content from now til the end of time....
I'm totally cool with that.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Keep Corrin when it comes to FE cuts.

I wouldn't mind Roy going tbh.

Nah, see ya later Lucina.

 

[lordvaati]

New Sakurai pic. I love that PotD is back.

pic.twitter.com/mWWJ1TqEwy

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) December 29, 2019

Sakurai confirmed to be an Adventure Time fan.

 

[Deleted member]

Ah, I see they're also fitting in with Marvel vs Capcom Infinite’s theme of having no female characters.

Oh dear...you do know I'm still here

 

[Ben Holt]

I don't think we'd go the full DLC cycle without a female character given how much Sakurai praised himself for adding so many female characters into Smash 4.

 

[Polan]

I still lean on Corrin not really selling all that well as a DLC simply because he was the only controversial inclusion at the time. Everyone else had a good reception, and when you have the likes of Mewtwo and Cloud, why would the blatant promotional character come out on top?

fates sold pretty well so i wouldn't be shocked if corrin was one of the higher selling characters. not gangbusters but turned some profit for nintendo.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I had to pay for him in 4.
Don't make me do that again.
NO CUTS!!!! EVER!
Everyone is here should be the default from here on out.
3 out of the 7 Smash 4 DLC characters were literally cut characters that should have been included from the get-go.

I'm certainly not advocating for cuts fwiw, because I certainly agree that there shouldn't be any.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Yeah I don't think this community is gonna look pretty during the speculation of the next game when it comes to roster cuts, especially since cuts are guaranteed according to Sakurai.

 

[Koopaul]

Sakurai is aware of the pandora's box he opened with Ultimate. No one will be happy with cuts in a normal sequel. So really the only thing you can do is something different.

Then do that.

*I* don't need a complete engine revamp ever again.

I don't think Nintendo or Sakurai want to sell the same game forever. Especially on a next Gen console. I have a strong feeling the next game is going to have to really change things up.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Ah, I see they're also fitting in with Marvel vs Capcom Infinite’s theme of having no female characters.

You defintely didn't play MvCI if you earnestly believe that.

 

[PSIGuy]

I do think the next game is certainly going to be more interesting for not being able to include every character. They'll have to take a different approach, whether it be focusing on the core gameplay, content or making every newcomer on a limited roster count.

Or they come out with Melee 2. I'd be happy with Melee 2. Better than Ultimate 0.5, anyday.

 

[Koopaul]

I do think the next game is certainly going to be more interesting for not being able to include every character. They'll have to take a different approach, whether it be focusing on the core gameplay, content or making every newcomer on a limited roster count.

Or they come out with Melee 2. I'd be happy with Melee 2. Better than Ultimate 0.5, anyday.

I definitely think their going to reconstruct the core gameplay. I wouldn't be surprised if every fighter had a completely new moveset.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nah, see ya later Lucina.

What? She's a major character from the best game in the series. She, Chrom, and Robin should become mainstays. Fire Emblem deserves all of it's characters, and it would be an awful idea to cut even one, but if they did, Marth would be the only acceptable cut. Dude's gimmick just isn't viable anymore.

Yeah I don't think this community is gonna look pretty during the speculation of the next game when it comes to roster cuts, especially since cuts are guaranteed according to Sakurai.

Remind me to skip that game's speculation cycle. I don't really want to listen to things like this all day once again.

"Corrin/Incineroar/Young Link/Dark Pit/Lucas/Squirtle/Roy/Piranha Plant/You get the point is stupid and should never return ever again!"

"Hot Take: King K. Rool won't return and that's a good thing."

*Cries because favorite DLC character is widely considered to be on the chopping block.*

*Long, angry rant on why Pichu should return.* (I may or may not be guilty of that one. lol)

"Why the bleep is Jigglypuff still here? They could have used all those resources to put literally anyone else in and they chose Jigglypuff?!? Dislike. Unsubscribing."

 

[Wunderwaft]

I definitely think their going to reconstruct the core gameplay. I wouldn't be surprised if every fighter had a completely new moveset.

I wouldn't say they'd go as far as making new movesets for every character. Sure some characters might get a new move or two (I'm looking at you Ganondorf), but I think most of the movesets would remain the same. What I think might change in the core gameplay is the engine. We might get some changes to hitstun and whatnot, we also might get new mechanics like air dashing or something as cool. A sequel to Ultimate may not surprass it's predecessor in terms of roster, but it can improve on different things like gameplay mechanics, single player content (I still want a proper adventure mode), and an actual good online system.

 

[PSIGuy]

Remind me to skip that game's speculation cycle. I don't realy want to listen to things like this all day once again.

"Corrin/Incineroar/Young Link/Dark Pit/Lucas/Squirtle/Roy/Piranha Plant/You get the point is stupid and should never return ever again!"

"Hot Take: King K. Rool won't return and that's a good thing."

*Cries because favorite DLC character is widely considered to be on the chopping block.*

*Long, angry rant on why Pichu should return.* (I may or may not be guilty of that one. lol)

"Why the bleep is Jigglypuff still here? They could have used all those resources to put literally anyone else in and they chose Jigglypuff?!? Dislike. Unsubscribing."

Hey, we didn't have to go through all that for Ultimate thanks to Everybody is Here. Maybe they'll pull a Nobody is Here and reveal the entire roster is never-before playable characters. Between assist trophies, promoted costumes and alternate protagonists for long running series there's a lot to work with.

...I want to live in a world where Mario and Pikachu get cut from a game for once.