Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Ben Holt]

What I'm gathering from this current conversation is that Claude von Riegan is more suitable a candidate to add to Smash on the grounds of representation than any female character.
Which I'm totally cool with, Claude's an awesome character, and I guarantee the outrage of him being a Fire Emblem character would outweigh any potential controversy of putting a black character in Smash.

In another thread, I mentioned how in a future Smash game, I'd like to see a color editor. (Look at Ultra Street Fighter 2.)
It would probably make a lot of young kids happy to be able to make Mario black like them.

 

[N3ON]

It bothers me that this post was so heavily liked.
It literally exists only to call out Lesley.
She has just as much right to want "generic female character" as I am to want "more Sonic characters".

It's not the content, it's the execution. I would hope you would have the sense not to speak for all Sonic fans in a truly reductionist and shallow manner while waving the flag of progressivism as Lesley opts to speak for all women.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

And we are taking about Smash.
It is fair to speculate about the inclusion of female characters in Smash.
Though the underlying cause could be seen as political, it is still Smash Speculation.
MANY people think FP5 is due to be female. PapaGenos and GameXplain mention it a lot.
The video was meant to explain why representation in media is important better than I ever could.

“Representation in media is important, heres why.”

“WARNING: Do not watch if you don’t want to see political content”.

At that point, you are transcending Smash and trying to talk about a broad political subject.

And I’m telling you that this isn’t the best place to do that.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I forgot about that fake Terry + Ryu leak.

Considering Ryu Hayabusa being Fighter 5 seems to have been wrong (though he could be in the next season), as well as multiple names they’ve heard in the discord (I doubt all of them are getting in unless there’s a third season and they’re planning it right now as well), Burb’s info that could tick off that one guy could also be wrong.

please I mean mii costumes would be better than nothing, but I hope all companies involved realize most fans of the characters would rather have them as playable fighters with their own, unique moves and animations and such instead of some random guy dressed as them with a hodgepodge of different, custom moves and shared animations and such with a bunch of other random cosplayers...

 

[Ben Holt]

It's not the content, it's the execution. I would hope you would have the sense not to speak for all Sonic fans in a truly reductionist and shallow manner while waving the flag of progressivism as Lesley opts to speak for all women.

Lesley does not speak for all women.
She is the closest friend I made on this site. We have over 30 pages of conversations between us.
Not once have I ever gotten the impression that she aims to monolithically speak for all women.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

Would this include characters who are not robots themselves... but instead ride them?

Yeah, I gave my Capcom slot to Tron, but I kind of see Ryusei having a Jin-esque moveset since the R-1 would actually be 'too big for Smash'. >_>

Gale's mechanical bish squad would consist of any of the following: Tron, Hatsuho Shinonome Sakura Amamiya, Jehuty, T-elos, A2, EDI, Labrys, Metabee, Nu-13, and Lamia Loveless.

Btw, HUcaseal > RAcaseal, GK. <_<

A) Overall, good picks.
B) Pfft. Add-on class that doesn't even get an archetype character? Even RAmarl's at least got their arm represented by Elly. >_>

 

[Ben Holt]

“Representation in media is important, heres why.”

“WARNING: Do not watch if you don’t want to see political content”.

At that point, you are transcending Smash and trying to talk about a broad political subject.

And I’m telling you that this isn’t the best place to do that.

Game devs are under political pressure too.
People used to speculate that some Dragon Quest music wouldn't make the cut due to a composer being homophobic.
I don't see how that makes it not speculation.

 

[P.Kat]

Me personally I not really gun-ho, er I mean I'm not really interested in FPS characters, most likely because I've hadn't play many FPS other than COD.

I may be wrong, but I feel that FPS characters would be to zony, and primarily fight long distances from opponents which isn't my fighting style ((a bit ironic since I use Palutena), I like being close to mid range mostly while using long range sparingly to force my opponent to get closer).

But if I had to choose between Master Chief, and Doom Slayer, it would be Master Chief, Im interested in the Halo universe, but I don't have an Xbox, or an interest in getting one for one game.

 

[SneakyLink]

I do think the FP5 speculation has gone on a bit longer than I think I would’ve hoped.

It is nice to have 4 out of 5 in the pass and other items have kept me distracted, but just knowing 5 would answer many questions.

Still, if we wait until January, that’s expected, but I only fear things will remain stagnant.

Maybe I should use Photoshop to create my hypothetical “FP2” and share it Saturday...

 

[Nemuresu]

Are avatar bets okay? I'm interested in doing one for this last FP challenger.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Game devs are under political pressure too.
People used to speculate that some Dragon Quest music wouldn't make the cut due to a composer being homophobic.
I don't see how that makes it not speculation.

If you want to continue talking about this subject, please find somewhere else to do so.

Like I said before, many of us just want to talk about Smash without a political message being thrown at us. And the thread could potentially get locked if political conversation continues.

 

[Ben Holt]

I do think the FP5 speculation has gone on a bit longer than I think I would’ve hoped.

It is nice to have 4 out of 5 in the pass and other items have kept me distracted, but just knowing 5 would answer many questions.

Still, if we wait until January, that’s expected, but I only fear things will remain stagnant.

Maybe I should use Photoshop to create my hypothetical “FP2” and share it Saturday...

I think we're due for a double reveal.
Last time we went this long between one DLC character being released and the next being announced was Joker to E3.

 

[Hinata]

Lesley does not speak for all women.
She is the closest friend I made on this site. We have over 30 pages of conversations between us.
Not once have I ever gotten the impression that she aims to monolithically speak for all women.

The problem with Lesley ain't what she wants from Smash, she can want whatever she damn well feels like.

The problem is she never really stops bringin' it up. And there are times where she tries to be all subtle about it and slip it in (like a previous comment from her saying "I'm worried about FP5's gender") as if we can't see it comin' a mile away.

Hell, she even made a thread on the Ultimate General Discussion board purely to talk about this topic. There's a point where it goes beyond just holdin' onto hope and a bit into obsession.

Plus, this conversation keeps comin' up because of it, and this really ain't what the boards are meant for. We're here to talk Ultimate in broad strokes, not laser focus on the fact that all the characters in the Fighter's Pass are men, and what that means for Ultimate and the mindsets of its developers.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think we're due for a double reveal.
Last time we went this long between one DLC character being released and the next being announced was Joker to E3.

I kinda figure the same. Especially since we need to know if they're going to try and sell us another 5 character pass or not and if they are, they need to at least TRY to sell people on the next Pass.

 

[Hinata]

I kinda figure the same. Especially since we need to know if they're going to try and sell us another 5 character pass or not and if they are, they need to at least TRY to sell people on the next Pass.

Assuming there even is a next pass. Maybe they'll go the route of Smash 4 and sell every character separately. Sakurai's gone on record saying he's not a big fan of the "season pass" deal, since he doesn't like people buyin' something before they know all of what they're gettin'.

 

[P.Kat]

I think we're due for a double reveal.
Last time we went this long between one DLC character being released and the next being announced was Joker to E3.

I can see that happening. Reveal the 5th Fighter, then mention the free bonus fighter if you buy Wave 2, then show off the 1st Fighter of the 2nd Wave,

 

[DarthEnderX]

You can literally go back a page and see people asking who the characters in Verge's post are. People don't Google ****.

They definitely did. They just ALSO asked who the characters were as a way to convey that they'd never heard of them before.

People go "Literally WHO?" for comedic effect, THEN go google the character.

ehhhh... Id rather have a charcter from a GOOD layton game

Is the Swirch game not good?

What we need are more machines.
Gynoids, androids, giant robots, mech-suits.

What about tanks?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Beforr I go to bed

double reveal
pheonix and Layton
Great Ace Attorneys

Thanks for coming to my TED talk

 

[Ben Holt]

Question for everyone:
I often speculate that some characters could come with some Echo Fighters.
Most notably Crash with Coco.
So, do you think we WILL get Echo Fighters as DLC, and if so, how would we get them? Free if you buy the base fighter? Treated like Mii Costumes at 75¢ each?

 

[GKMLTTSB]

Question for everyone:
I often speculate that some characters could come with some Echo Fighters.
Most notably Crash with Coco.
So, do you think we WILL get Echo Fighters as DLC, and if so, how would we get them? Free if you buy the base fighter? Treated like Mii Costumes at 75¢ each?

I've suggested some myself (Elenor/Lisa, Haruka/Kirari, Sakura Shinguji/Amamiya, etc.) but I don't think it's happening.

If we do get new echo fighters, I think they're going to be their own standalone thing and none of them will be based off of DLC characters.
If they were, they'd have to either cost the same as the original DLC fighter or have some conditional discount that applies both ways depending on which is bought first.

What about tanks?
View attachment 253354

Yeah, I had Fio in the suggested list I posted after that.
Specifically, I think the SRV-001 should be something that she can utilize based on some sort of resource so she fights part of the battle on foot, yet can board it part of the time.

 

[osby]

Question for everyone:
I often speculate that some characters could come with some Echo Fighters.
Most notably Crash with Coco.
So, do you think we WILL get Echo Fighters as DLC, and if so, how would we get them? Free if you buy the base fighter? Treated like Mii Costumes at 75¢ each?

I think we simply won't get echos.

Base game ones, regardless of their positive reception, felt like padding for the roster and I don't see DLC having them with more limited resources.

And if we do end up getting them, they'll probably cost more than a Mii costume, considering the prices of Roy and Lucas.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Is the Swirch game not good?

Its not that, its just Apparently the puzzles arent all that good, since, well, the Puzzle Master that makes them died so they got a new person and what I personally dont like is the fact its a "wheres daddy" game where the whole plot of Kats looking for Layton

 

[Ben Holt]

I've suggested some myself (Elenor/Lisa, Haruka/Kirari, Sakura Shinguji/Amamiya, etc.) but I don't think it's happening.

If we do get new echo fighters, I think they're going to be their own standalone thing and none of them will be based off of DLC characters.
If they were, they'd have to either cost the same as the original DLC fighter or have some conditional discount that applies both ways depending on which is bought first.

My reasoning to compare them to Mii Fighter is that, for the most part, Echo Fighters ARE costumes, but for characters not named Mii.

 

[Hinata]

I think we simply won't get echos.

Base game ones, regardless of their positive reception, felt like padding for the roster and I don't see DLC having them with more limited resources.

And if we do end up getting them, they'll probably cost more than a Mii costume, considering the prices of Roy and Lucas.

But... We gotta get Kasumi...

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I think we're due for a double reveal.
Last time we went this long between one DLC character being released and the next being announced was Joker to E3.

I kinda figure the same. Especially since we need to know if they're going to try and sell us another 5 character pass or not and if they are, they need to at least TRY to sell people on the next Pass.

I think if we're getting a double reveal, it'll be in a Smash-focused Direct. I know Hero and Banjo were both revealed in the same general Direct at E3, but with us knowing that we're getting more DLC and nothing else, a Smash Direct would allow Sakurai to go into detail about what the "more DLC" will be like.

Question for everyone:
I often speculate that some characters could come with some Echo Fighters.
Most notably Crash with Coco.
So, do you think we WILL get Echo Fighters as DLC, and if so, how would we get them? Free if you buy the base fighter? Treated like Mii Costumes at 75¢ each?

I imagine it could be one of these...

1. They come bundled with the DLC character they're based on (i.e. Phoenix Wright as a DLC character who comes bundled with Apollo Justice)
2. Like the Rex Mii Fighter costume, they're a "free bonus" you get for buying a Fighters Pass (i.e. Fighters Pass 2 with 5 characters, plus Dixie Kong if you buy the whole thing).
3. We end up getting a separate cheaper Fighters Pass entirely consisting of Echo Fighters, with the caveat of each Echo only coming bundled with a few music tracks.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So, do you think we WILL get Echo Fighters as DLC, and if so, how would we get them? Free if you buy the base fighter? Treated like Mii Costumes at 75¢ each?

If they're echoes of a new character(ex. Kunio with Riki echo) I expect them to be packaged together at no additional cost.

If it's an echo of a preexisting character(ex. Impa or Bass) I expect them to either be free, or sold separately for cheap, like a Mii costume.

 

[Ben Holt]

I think we simply won't get echos.

Base game ones, regardless of their positive reception, felt like padding for the roster and I don't see DLC having them with more limited resources.

And if we do end up getting them, they'll probably cost more than a Mii costume, considering the prices of Roy and Lucas.

I don't see Roy and Lucas as Echo Fighters, even by Smash 4 standards.
I see them as "Luigified" like Luigi, Pichu, Young Link, Toon Link, *sigh* Ganondorf, Isabelle, and apparently Dr. Mario now.
Echo Fighters have EXTREMELY MINUTE changes. In the case Daisy and Dark Samus, it's literally just animations. (Though Daisy DID have a very small difference with Turnips in the first patch. Why the hell did they take that away?)

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Echo fighters are a tricky business.

You could sell a whole Pass of echo fighters, yeah, but all those echo fighters can't be priced at regular price because they aren't full fighters and will garner controversy if they are sold regularly. That, in turn, would mean that you would also have to have the WHOLE PASS be echo fighters of base roster characters because if you sell an echo fighter for cheaper than the DLC fighter it's based on then you are essentially losing money.

If Echoes come with characters that means that you can only sell the echo fighter WITH the character because if you sell it seperate from the character at a cheaper price then you're making the base character obsolete and if you're selling an echo at the same price as the base character you're quite literally ripping people off and if you don't make any money off of the Echo then you're likely, again, just losing money.

There's just not really a good way to do it.

 

[Night Gale]

A) Overall, good picks.
B) Pfft. Add-on class that doesn't even get an archetype character? Even RAmarl's at least got their arm represented by Elly. >_>

Thanks.
Doesn't matter, still cool. Although I guess I can support Camuel.

Spoiler

Monkey's Paw, bish!

 

[Ben Holt]

Echo fighters are a tricky business.

You could sell a whole Pass of echo fighters, yeah, but all those echo fighters can't be priced at regular price because they aren't full fighters and will garner controversy if they are sold regularly. That, in turn, would mean that you would also have to have the WHOLE PASS be echo fighters of base roster characters because if you sell an echo fighter for cheaper than the DLC fighter it's based on then you are essentially losing money.

If Echoes come with characters that means that you can only sell the echo fighter WITH the character because if you sell it seperate from the character at a cheaper price then you're making the base character obsolete and if you're selling an echo at the same price as the base character you're quite literally ripping people off and if you don't make any money off of the Echo then you're likely, again, just losing money.

There's just not really a good way to do it.

That's why I think some characters, like Crash, with obvious echo potential should just come together. It'd be a bonus.
In my prediction roster, I include Coco as a Crash echo and Ayane as a Ryu Hayabusa echo, because that's literally how they perform in their home games.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Beforr I go to bed

double reveal
pheonix and Layton
Great Ace Attorneys

Thanks for coming to my TED talk

Finally someone is speaking my language here.

 

[osby]

I don't see Roy and Lucas as Echo Fighters, even by Smash 4 standards.
I see them as "Luigified" like Luigi, Pichu, Young Link, Toon Link, *sigh* Ganondorf, Isabelle, and apparently Dr. Mario now.
Echo Fighters have EXTREMELY MINUTE changes. In the case Daisy and Dark Samus, it's literally just animations. (Though Daisy DID have a very small difference with Turnips in the first patch. Why the hell did they take that away?)

Tell that to Chrom and Ken.

 

[Ben Holt]

Tell that to Chrom and Ken.

Chrom has ONE move different from Roy.
Though I'll grant you that Ken trots on that borderline with Dr. Mario.
I kinda feel like Ken was an Echo Fighter by default because he's the poster boy of clones in Fighting Games.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Ayane as a Ryu Hayabusa echo, because that's literally how they perform in their home games.

Woah, hold on there Chief. Gonna be completely honest here, Ayane plays nothing like Hayabusa. Crash and Coco I get but not that one.

 

[Hinata]

(Though Daisy DID have a very small difference with Turnips in the first patch. Why the hell did they take that away?)

Because Sakurai hates Memoryman, just as we all do.

 

[Ben Holt]

Woah, hold on there Chief. Gonna be completely honest here, Ayane plays nothing like Hayabusa. Crash and Coco I get but not that one.

I mean in Ninja Gaiden. Not Dead or Alive.
If I remember correctly, wasn't she a 1-to-1 clone of Ryu in Ninja Gaiden 3: Razors Edge?

 

[Idon]

Beforr I go to bed

double reveal
pheonix and Layton
Great Ace Attorneys

Thanks for coming to my TED talk

Pft, Layton wouldn't dare associate with the villainy that is lawyering, no he's a very respectable professor of archaeology.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I mean in Ninja Gaiden. Not Dead or Alive.
If I remember correctly, wasn't she a 1-to-1 clone of Ryu in Ninja Gaiden 3: Razors Edge?

She wasn't. She used dual blades, was a lot faster, and dealt a lot more damage with her spin attacks while Ryu was slower, used a single blade (or a myriad of other weaponry) with slower more concentrated strikes.

 

[Ben Holt]

She wasn't. She used dual blades, was a lot faster, and dealt a lot more damage with her spin attacks while Ryu was slower, used a single blade (or a myriad of other weaponry) with slower more concentrated strikes.

Oh. Whoops. Guess I remembered wrong.
Still cool enough to be an echo, though. She probably wouldn't make it as a standalone fighter.

 

[perfectchaos83]

The only way I see us getting Echoes as DLC in a non-controversial way is if they are free and I don't see that happening.