Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

Don't mean to backseat mod, but talking about veteran characters being cut or changed doesn't really fit in the topic of the Newcomer Speculation thread. :V

 

[David James]

Don't mean to backseat mod, but talking about veteran characters being cut or changed doesn't really fit in the topic of the Newcomer Speculation thread. :V

I guess you can make a case that if they give new movesets to ganondorf and wolf, it will technically make them newcomers and not clones

 

[Deleted member]

I guess you can make a case that if they give new movesets to ganondorf and wolf, it will technically make them newcomers and not clones

They are still Veteran fighters. Being revamped doesn't make someone a Newcomer.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That said, Golden is right.

Please talk about revamping Veterans in here. There's also various topics among that section for other veterans as well.

BTW, it'd be better to have reported these posts too so we can help move the discussion over.

Thank you for your time.

 

[David James]

Wolf, springman, or shovel knight

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I think Springman is kind of boring, so Shovel Knight

 

[StormC]

Wolf, springman, or shovel knight

I wanna have fun with this thing.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Wolf, springman, or shovel knight

Springman probably from that list, although I'd rather have another ARMS character he's the face of it.

Also his sideburns are springs too. That's neat.

 

[N3ON]

Wolf, springman, or shovel knight

Yes

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Min Min or Twintelle are so much more interesting.

 

[Opossum]

Wolf, springman, or shovel knight

Shovel Knight, though Spring Man is a close second.

 

[David James]

I think the arms rep will actually be 8 diffrent arms rep skins, similair to animal crossing villager.

 

[WingedSupernova]

Personally I didn't like ARMS. I thought it was boring and offered very little to do. So I'd go Wolf out of those three. I think the other two need one more game to make them better.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Wolf, springman, or shovel knight

Wolf.

Although Spring Man is another character I'd really like to see. Chances are low for the base roster, but very possible as DLC.

As for Shovel Knight, not a fan of Indies joining the roster.

 

[DutchPichu]

I feel like the last few series Nintendo should "add" to Smash Bros. to make Smash Bros. a Nintendo ALL-STAR fighter, are Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven and to a lesser extent, Advance Wars. Isaac, any Rhythm Heaven character and Andy are just three big icons for three big series who NEED to be in a Nintendo All-Star game with "lesser important" characters like Wii Fit Trainer (although I really liked her), Corrin and R.O.B....

 

[Opossum]

I feel like the last few series Nintendo should "add" to Smash Bros. to make Smash Bros. a Nintendo ALL-STAR fighter, are Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven and to a lesser extent, Advance Wars. Isaac, any Rhythm Heaven character and Andy are just three big icons for three big series who NEED to be in a Nintendo All-Star game with "lesser important" characters like Wii Fit Trainer (although I really liked her), Corrin and R.O.B....

Those three series couldn't be further away from being iconic (except maybe Rhythm Heaven in Japan). Golden Sun and Advance Wars are dead franchises.

Wii Fit sold a ton of units, Fates was one of the best selling Fire Emblem titles (coming from someone who greatly dislikes Corrin as a character in their own game), and R.O.B. was Nintendo's Trojan Horse that let it actually sell video games in the US. All three are leaps and bounds more significant.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

You kind of equivocated there. You went from talking about being iconic to being significant.

 

[David James]

Once a character is in smash, they are not just Iconic they are immortalized. Or are we going to pretend star fox, f-zero, Iceclimbers are all strong nintendo well selling nintendo franchises today. And if you say it doesn't matter they were smash veterans, pit was revived after only appearing in brawl. So "iconic" might as well be code for:I don't like your franchise, I don't want change in smash. All I want is to dois play melee, no items, fox only, final destination.


Fire emblem wasnt iconic when it was first put in melee, did anyone honestly know what a game and watch was, and was pit who mind you only has three games one being modern iconic or did anyone know shulk before smash 4?

Therefore Iconic isnt a requirement for smash, its what smash makes a franchise into after appearing in it. If you don't want indies or new franchises to come in, you are always welcome to continue wavedashing for the rest of your life, but new games will have to evolve and add more characters, or would you rather only iconic characters get in and star fox and f-zero have to get booted because people only know them as those guys from smash.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Who cares about being iconic? Popularity drives sales.

 

[Opossum]

You kind of equivocated there. You went from talking about being iconic to being significant.

I'd argue they go together quite often. Iconicity comes from, among other things, recognizability. Recognizability is increased through more sales, as the product is in the hands of more people. So while not the same, I'd argue the two are related.

Once a character is in smash, they are not just Iconic they are immortalized. Or are we going to pretend star fox, f-zero, Iceclimbers are all strong nintendo well selling nintendo franchises today. And if you say it doesn't matter they were smash veterans, pit was revived after only appearing in brawl. So "iconic" might as well be code for:I don't like your franchise, I don't want change in smash. All I want is to dois play melee, no items, fox only, final destination.


Fire emblem wasnt iconic when it was first put in melee, did anyone honestly know what a game and watch was, and was pit who mind you only has three games one being modern iconic or did anyone know shulk before smash 4?

Therefore Iconic isnt a requirement for smash, its what smash makes a franchise into after appearing in it. If you don't want indies or new franchises to come in, you are always welcome to continue wavedashing for the rest of your life, but new games will have to evolve and add more characters, or would you rather only iconic characters get in and star fox and f-zero have to get booted because people only know them as those guys from smash.

Not sure if this was directed at me or not, but I never said you needed to be iconic to get into Smash. My issue was that the above poster was saying series should get in due to being iconic, but proceeded to list series that are far from it, all while downplaying characters who are far more significant. That's all.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Who cares about being iconic? Popularity drives sales.

I’d argue both drive sales. An iconic character must by definition have a strong, devoted fanbase. A hardcore Nintendo fan will probably be more compelled to buy Smash if, say, Ridley gets in than if, like, someone from Fortnite were to make it in.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Are there popular Fortnite characters? Don't confuse a game being popular with a character being popular.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Example nonwithstanding, the idea still stands. Goku and Mickey Mouse are very popular characters, but a lot of people would be turned off the game and maybe the series by a choice like that. Huge popularity often comes with a big hatedom. Minecraft’s Steve would have been a huge deal a couple of years back, but most fans of the series would probably have groaned and complained.

Edit: since we’re dealing with this specific franchise and its particular fandom, it should be noted that many characters with a lot of popularity are the opposite of popular outside the fandom (e.g.: Takamaru, who most people consider a shoe-in). Being a somewhat iconic Nintendo character (like Isaac) can make you a lot more popular than being an all out gaming icon (like Doomguy) or icon generally (like Darth Vader) in this fandom.

 

[David James]

https://youtu.be/8SAKdoV0l9w

Bill Nye for smash, confirmed. He wil team up with labo man

On a serious note, do think lano will be represented in smash?

 

[YoshiandToad]

I think iconicness does drive sales to a point.

An interesting concept can also do it without a star name attached.

With Smash the interesting concept is seeing those famous stars of Nintendo(and guests) beating the ever loving crap out of one another.

I genuinely don't think Smash would have succeeded to the ridiculous instant levels of popularity if it wasn't Mario vs. Link vs. Pikachu vs. Donkey Kong and was four totally original characters.

Nintendo fans and Smash speculators have a differing idea from the general public what characters are iconic though.

Interesting thought experiment: who do you think is recognisable to the average non Nintendo fan newcomer wise?

Isabelle? Meowth? Blastoise? Waluigi? Toad? Is Dixie Kong a recognised face to the general public even?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think iconicness does drive sales to a point.

An interesting concept can also do it without a star name attached.

With Smash the interesting concept is seeing those famous stars of Nintendo(and guests) beating the ever loving crap out of one another.

I genuinely don't think Smash would have succeeded to the ridiculous instant levels of popularity if it wasn't Mario vs. Link vs. Pikachu vs. Donkey Kong and was four totally original characters.

Nintendo fans and Smash speculators have a differing idea from the general public what characters are iconic though.

Interesting thought experiment: who do you think is recognisable to the average non Nintendo fan newcomer wise?

Isabelle? Meowth? Blastoise? Waluigi? Toad? Is Dixie Kong a recognised face to the general public even?

I'm pretty sure people would recognize these characters. Heck, there is a video about this.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

They don't recognize villager, they're sure as **** not going to recognize Isabelle. Also I assume almost no one recgonzed Jigglypuff, Lucario, or Greninja, since they virtually skipped them.

While I agree that people on this forum are in a ****ing bubble, asking people who barely play video games doesn't exactly prove that.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

At any rate, the biggest and most important characters are already in, and at this point we're dealing with the icing on the cake. There aren't really any Nintendo character at this point that aren't in that would have a significant impact in terms of sales. At least not on their own.

The biggest problem I have with people trying to argue for "casual" appeal is that the term is so vaguely defined it's not even meaningful in terms of discussion. How are you supposed to have a debate surrounding a vaguely defined word? What the heck defines the boundary between a "hardcore" and a "casual" fan?

 

[YoshiandToad]

At any rate, the biggest and most important characters are already in, and at this point we're dealing with the icing on the cake. There aren't really any Nintendo character at this point that aren't in that would have a significant impact in terms of sales. At least not on their own.

The biggest problem I have with people trying to argue for "casual" appeal is that the term is so vaguely defined it's not even meaningful in terms of discussion. How are you supposed to have a debate surrounding a vaguely defined word? What the heck defines the boundary between a "hardcore" and a "casual" fan?

Show a pic of Samus.

If they say 'Master Chief' they're a casual.

:v

 

[WingedSupernova]

Show a pic of Samus.

If they say 'Master Chief' they're a casual.

:v

Better yet, refer to Samus as a guy multiple times and see if they correct you.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

That lady going ''Oh my god, ew, no." to Wario.

Same.

 

[YoshiandToad]

They don't recognize villager, they're sure as **** not going to recognize Isabelle. Also I assume almost no one recgonzed Jigglypuff, Lucario, or Greninja, since they virtually skipped them.

While I agree that people on this forum are in a ****ing bubble, asking people who barely play video games doesn't exactly prove that.

To be fair Villager does have a few designs(The playable ones in Smash and Mario Kart are vastly different for example and in turn look different from the 64 villager) and is a customisable character in design and name whilst Isabelle is consistent apart from a change of clothes so I could get someone not instantly recognising Villager as 'villager'.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

To be fair Villager does have a few designs(The playable ones in Smash and Mario Kart are vastly different for example and in turn look different from the 64 villager) and is a customisable character in design and name whilst Isabelle is consistent apart from a change of clothes so I could get someone not instantly recognising Villager as 'villager'.

They couldn't name the game he came from.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They couldn't name the game he came from.

Not everybody knows what game it is. I've talked to many who play games and don't recognize Animal Crossing. It's not that freaking iconic. It's up there, obviously.

But it's not a household name either.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Not everybody knows what game it is. I've talked to many who play games and don't recognize Animal Crossing. It's not that freaking iconic. It's up there, obviously.

But it's not a household name either.

That was my point.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That was my point.

Ah, then I misunderstood what you meant. Sorry about that.

 

[Graizen]

Some questions for everyone:

If Luffy, protagonist of One Piece, entered the next Smash Bros thanks to his enormous popularity in the World and especially in Japan.
Would that be good for the game?
Would you like that?
What would be the best moveset for him?

 

[Opossum]

Some questions for everyone:

If Luffy, protagonist of One Piece, entered the next Smash Bros thanks to his enormous popularity in the World and especially in Japan.
Would that be good for the game?
Would you like that?
What would be the best moveset for him?

I'd personally rather have anime characters stay as far away from the roster as possible.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Some questions for everyone:

If Luffy, protagonist of One Piece, entered the next Smash Bros thanks to his enormous popularity in the World and especially in Japan.
Would that be good for the game?
Would you like that?
What would be the best moveset for him?

Absolutely not. Manga/anime characters don’t belong in Smash.

As for whether it would be good for the series, the character’s pretty recognizable but not huge, so it probably wouldn’t break the world sales-wise. I’d argue that diluting the brand would do more harm than whatever extra cash they got is worth.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Absolutely not. Manga/anime characters don’t belong in Smash.

As for whether it would be good for the series, the character’s pretty recognizable but not huge, so it probably wouldn’t break the world sales-wise. I’d argue that diluting the brand would do more harm than whatever extra cash they got is worth.

One Piece is the third biggest comic series in the world(after Superman and Batman respectively, edging out Spiderman even for that third place spot) and the most successful Anime ever, beating even Dragonball so he's definitely "huge". He's technically a bigger deal than Goku even.

I do agree it's an awful idea to throw him in though. Or Goku. Or Naruto, or any other anime character. Let them fight in their own version of the Smash Bros. series whether it's D.O.N, J-Stars or Jump Ultimate Stars.