Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

The theory was really just based on Duck Hunt dog's model being able to be modified to fit Banjo, with the duck being turned into Kazooie inside a backpack; the dog's default pose is a standard T-Pose so it's already nearly bipedal. Nothing regarding Duck Hunt's moveset was taken into consideration other than maybe some of the duck's peck moves. The theory was created because Piranha Plant had Bowser Jr. files.

It is, of course, just a theory, and while they could rip Duck Hunt dog's skeleton and modify it for Banjo, it would seem to make more sense to use a human character's skeleton and just rip the duck if they want to use it as a base for Kazooie. The part of the theory surrounding the corrupted saves may even be debunked since it seems the corruptions were caused by specific SD cards.

Problem with the theory of using the dog as a model, is that it would require extensive modification to the bones and muscle structure of the model in addition to the modification of the model(Especially in the lower part). In smash 4 it is plausible to base characters from ZSS and Ike (if they were used as base and not just placeholders) due to the characters having a pretty similar body type, as they are humanoids. The moveset implementation of DH and Banjo is quite different as well due to Kazooie working more as a Jack-in-the-box kind of weapon compared to the Duck. It is remotely possible to make the base from DH, but it requires more work than necessary that they could achieve with other character like Mario or Fox which are more similar in body types as the bear.

Plus from what I remember issue in Century smash was linked to its use of the down-b attack what crashed the game (with was a couple of moves). So it would make more sense that the thing that is affecting the game is a summoning move instead of the model.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Banjo's skelleton would most likely be created from Mario's I would think. Duck Hunt's style of fighting could be implemented slightly, like the aerial attacks. Or dash attack. Or any other attack that uses the duck instead of the dog. But outside of that, I see little similarities between them.

 

[MrElectroG64]

Last average of the third-party characters predictions on the RTC thread
(decimals are rounded to 0.5) :

- Steve ≈ 57% - Banjo & Kazooie ≈ 21%
- Lloyd Irving ≈ 48% - Heihachi Mishima ≈ 11%
- Pr. Layton ≈ 35% - Jibanyan ≈ 13%
- Phoenix Wright ≈ 33% - Monster Hunter ≈ 30,5% - Leon S. Kennedy ≈ 29% - Amaterasu ≈ 9%
- Erdrick ≈ 29% - Geno ≈ 22,5% - 2B ≈ 21% - Sora ≈ 13% - Sephiroth ≈ 13% - Lara Croft ≈ 12%
- Crash ≈ 28% - Spyro ≈ 15% - Tracer is getting a relatively high average.
- SNK rep. ≈ 25%
- Rayman ≈ 24% - Ezio ≈ 23%
- Reimu Hakurei ≈ 16%
- Dovahkiin ≈ 14,5% - Doomguy ≈ 12%
- Ryu Hayabusa ≈ 10%
- Arle Nadja ≈ 10%

Not to sound mean or anything, but surely there are more options than those?

 

[zferolie]

I never knew I wanted a character from Crypt of the NecroDancer in Smash until now.

I don't know the stats for Brave all that well, but imagine if Cadence happens to be the 2nd DLC fighter coming after Joker.

I wouldn't mind her at all. And if she somehow had to fit her rhtyem intoi her moveset to get the most power tht would be cool

Not to sound mean or anything, but surely there are more options than those?

Shantae isn't on that list at all

 

[Deleted member]

Two Microsoft reps seems more possible now with Microsoft giving some of their stuff to Nintendo.

Maybe we get Steve and Banjo ormaybe we get other Microsoft characters, but now we can take the idea of Microsoft pulling a Konami or SEGA as a possibility.

 

[RileyXY1]

Two Microsoft reps seems more possible now with Microsoft giving some of their stuff to Nintendo.

Maybe we get Steve and Banjo ormaybe we get other Microsoft characters, but now we can take the idea of Microsoft pulling a Konami or SEGA as a possibility.

I don't think that 2 of the fighter pass characters are from Microsoft. It's either Banjo, Steve, or neither. Both aren't making it in.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think that 2 of the fighter pass characters are from Microsoft. It's either Banjo, Steve, or neither. Both aren't making it in.

Of course.
I say this considering the scenario where we get another Fighter Pass.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still think Monster Hunter is probably one of the most likely characters to become DLC. Outside of the Rathalos, Nintendo has been allowing Fire Emblem and Zelda crossovers into Monster Hunter ever since last generation. Also it's one of the biggest franchises left out of Smash. and Monster Hunter is decently popular with Nintendo's fan base (I myself am even a fan). I'm predicting the Monster Hunter to be one of the 4 unmentioned DLC characters therefore.

 

[Robertman2]

I don't think that 2 of the fighter pass characters are from Microsoft. It's either Banjo, Steve, or neither. Both aren't making it in.

It's either Steve or Master Cheif

 

[Deleted member]

If a Microsoft rep was to be announced for Smash, it'll be at either E3 or the Game Awards since those are the 2 biggest gaming events out there. I doubt that whatever Microsoft and Nintendo plan on doing together will be announced on a regular Direct, though it's not completely off the table if it involves a Direct with significant Microsoft related content.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

....not even close.
Sonic's moveset may have been inspired mainly by the Classic era, but that isn't Classic Sonic by any means. The design is CLEARLY the Modern Sonic from post-Sonic Adventure.
This CANNOT be argued whatsoever.

Actually, he only recently got moves from Modern Sonic. He was pretty much Classic till Ultimate changed up his design to be more like Modern. Homing Attack is actually a classic move(from Sonic 3D Blast, not from Sonic Adventure). It got the lock-on. All the other moves were from pre-Adventure games outside of his Down Air, since that's literally Shadow Rocket. So yes, he's been pretty clearly based upon Classic Sonic. He's now a combination, but still is core Classic with a small touch of Modern overall.

I was talking about his moveset, not being loosely based physically on Modern Sonic, to be clear. Sorry for the confusion on that. I definitely didn't put enough context in there.

 

[RileyXY1]

It's either Steve or Master Cheif

Master Chief got deconfirmed.

 

[Deleted member]

]

Actually, he only recently got moves from Modern Sonic. He was pretty much Classic till Ultimate changed up his design to be more like Modern. Homing Attack is actually a classic move(from Sonic 3D Blast, not from Sonic Adventure). It got the lock-on. All the other moves were from pre-Adventure games outside of his Down Air, since that's literally Shadow Rocket. So yes, he's been pretty clearly based upon Classic Sonic. He's now a combination, but still is core Classic with a small touch of Modern overall.

I was talking about his moveset, not being loosely based physically on Modern Sonic, to be clear. Sorry for the confusion on that. I definitely didn't put enough context in there.

The point is Modern Sonic can't be an Echo because the Sonic in Smash IS Modern Sonic, even if his moves are from the Classic Era.
Classic Sonic instead would be the Echo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

]

The point is Modern Sonic can't be an Echo because the Sonic in Smash IS Modern Sonic, even if his moves are from the Classic Era.
Classic Sonic instead would be the Echo.

Classic Sonic is still being hard represented mostly with the current Sonic in Smash. I get what you're saying though I just don't agree you can make an Echo in this case and it makes any sense. You're just representing Classic a a second time overall. I don't see a point in it.

Reiterating again I get what you mean.

 

[SKX31]

Master Chief got deconfirmed.

Lets not get into that. Not when there's been people disputing that and we could wind up arguing in circles (I'm still very much leaning towards Chinderblock's take). Regardless, I'm not counting on him at all.

If a Microsoft rep was to be announced for Smash, it'll be at either E3 or the Game Awards since those are the 2 biggest gaming events out there. I doubt that whatever Microsoft and Nintendo plan on doing together will be announced on a regular Direct, though it's not completely off the table if it involves a Direct with significant Microsoft related content.

Could be a surprise announcement, but I'm not counting on that either.

Two Microsoft reps seems more possible now with Microsoft giving some of their stuff to Nintendo.

Maybe we get Steve and Banjo ormaybe we get other Microsoft characters, but now we can take the idea of Microsoft pulling a Konami or SEGA as a possibility.

I don't think they'll fully commit to third party status - they'll continue making Xboxes if they sell. The Xbone is at 40 million despite the slowdown, not a bad haul.

But games that do not require big time graphics (like Cuphead and older games) can easily be spread around. For example, MCC on other platforms, Halo Infinite on the Xbox. As a way to draw people to the Xbox (by expanding the amount of people familiar with Chief and wanting to see his next game) while raking in more money.

This gives Microsoft a lot of flexibility, something great in an age of streaming and digital downloads. You want to reach as many of those mid sized "niche" audiences you can with those products of yours. While the Xbox still serves a major purpose.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Watch guys as the remaining four are Erdrick, Steve, Byleth/Edelgard and Gen 8 Pokemon.

Prepare for disappointment! Especially given Nintendo is choosing!

 

[GoodGrief741]

Watch guys as the remaining four are Erdrick, Steve, Byleth/Edelgard and Gen 8 Pokemon.

Prepare for disappointment! Especially given Nintendo is choosing!

I am prepared for something like that, but even I don't expect the picks to be that bad.

 

[Deleted member]

Watch guys as the remaining four are Erdrick, Steve, Byleth/Edelgard and Gen 8 Pokemon.

Prepare for disappointment! Especially given Nintendo is choosing!

This preemptive disappointment feels childish, especially when we don't know about how a few of these picks would play. Some of the options could end up with pretty cool movesets irregardless of who it is.

Even if we get the worst case scenario, you save 25 bucks on DLC, nobody is making you pay for the DLC.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Lets bring some spice to the table shall we

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Deleted member]

Classic Sonic is still being hard represented mostly with the current Sonic in Smash. I get what you're saying though I just don't agree you can make an Echo in this case and it makes any sense. You're just representing Classic a a second time overall. I don't see a point in it.

Reiterating again I get what you mean.

If anything, the fact Sonic is Classic-style in moveset actually makes a Classic Echo more reasonable as opposed to if Sonic had more of a Modern fighting style with Boosts and whatnot.

A slightly smaller Sonic (that didn't talk and used more retro sounds) isn't any worse than having an Echo whose only non-aesthetic changes are having a wider hurtbox when idle or running (Daisy) or having literally only one single move having a different property (Richter).

 

[Icedragonadam]

Lets bring some spice to the table shall we

There was a problem fetching the tweet

False alrm. That footage is Smash 4, so it was pretty much just a mistake.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If anything, the fact Sonic is Classic-style in moveset actually makes a Classic Echo more reasonable as opposed to if Sonic had more of a Modern fighting style with Boosts and whatnot.

A slightly smaller Sonic (that didn't talk and used more retro sounds) isn't any worse than having an Echo whose only non-aesthetic changes are having a wider hurtbox when idle or running (Daisy) or having literally only one single move having a different property (Richter).

They were more justified by being actually popular characters and didn't feel forced for the sake of it. There's better choices like Shadow who is actually wanted. Shoehorning in the Classic version for the sake of it doesn't do much at all. Besides that, Daisy herself is pretty obviously someone who had a decent ballot presence. It's not hard to figure that out. Richter literally got in due to the ballot. Sonic is already there with barely anything modern(beyond a few moves and his design). Exactly where would the requests be for a second Sonic, an actual justification for him to be in? He already represents the entire franchise, new and old overall. So it's pretty doubtful Classic Sonic had any major votes, if any at all.

Without a ballot presence, there's no good reason to throw it in. "It can work" is not a reason that should exist in cases like this. At least when reusing the same character, they've made some pretty good design differences. All the Links are fairly different. Samus and Zero Suit Samus are blatantly different. So are Mario and Dr. Mario. An echo sounds like it would be completely pointless when there's a lack of ton of requests(I won't say it's impossible people requested him, but it's pretty doubtful). Dark Samus is a different person. The thing about every Echo is that they're actually different characters entirely.

 

[andree123]

Watch guys as the remaining four are Erdrick, Steve, Byleth/Edelgard and Gen 8 Pokemon.

Gen 8 Pokemon and Byleth/Edelgard are not supposed to be in this fighters pass because they are from upcoming games, no new character from a upcoming game should be in the fighters pass.
I still think Steve is not in at all because I'm still with the folks who believe that and Century Smash save corruption glitch that means that they are placeholders for Lloyd and Banjo.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Gen 8 Pokemon and Byleth/Edelgard are not supposed to be in this fighters pass because they are from upcoming games, no new character from a upcoming game should be in the fighters pass.

Didn't stop andfrom happening despite not debuting in their games yet.

And again given that this is Nintendo choosing and how they like to promote as well as make money through business and given how big Minecraft is. They sure as hell won't be passing up Steve.

You also do realize that whole glitch thing could be a coincidence right?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Gen 8 Pokemon and Byleth/Edelgard are not supposed to be in this fighters pass because they are from upcoming games, no new character from a upcoming game should be in the fighters pass.
I still think Steve is not in at all because I'm still with the folks who believe that and Century Smash save corruption glitch that means that they are placeholders for Lloyd and Banjo.

That theory really doesn't mean much whatsoever. Seems too fishy honestly. Mii Swordfighter could just as easily be a placeholder for Erdrick or Joker too with that logic. And PP has the same issue yet doesn't point to anyone. Shouldn't all 3 characters point to a DLC character? It should make some sense consistently. It's really just a weird coincidence at this point. It's simply a programming error that can happen. It happened with Mewtwo in 4 as well. Reality is, programming is fickle. Hit the wrong thing, and you can cause a big issue.

Steve has a very high chance of being in regardless. Besides that, "are not supposed to be in this fighter's pass" doesn't make any sense. Since when was that ever the case? I mean, you might not personally want it, but that type of thing can happen easily. There's no rule that states that pic

Didn't stop andfrom happening despite not debuting in their games yet.

And again given that this is Nintendo choosing and how they like to promote as well as make money through business and given how big Minecraft is. They sure as hell won't be passing up Steve.

You can also add Roy and Incineroar to the list. Though only Roy and Corrin had "to promote their upcoming game" as part of the reason.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

That said I'm prepared for disappointment because lets be honest Smash always ends that way both Base and DLC especially givenlike I said Nintendo is picking so they're obviously going for promotional picks and business decisions like Steve.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I believe Roy is the only character that was added before his debut in that the games came out before the smash title.

 

[GoodGrief741]

If anything, the fact Sonic is Classic-style in moveset actually makes a Classic Echo more reasonable as opposed to if Sonic had more of a Modern fighting style with Boosts and whatnot.

A slightly smaller Sonic (that didn't talk and used more retro sounds) isn't any worse than having an Echo whose only non-aesthetic changes are having a wider hurtbox when idle or running (Daisy) or having literally only one single move having a different property (Richter).

I mean, having the same character be represented twice is worse, but yeah, it's not unfeasible, which is what I think you were going for.

 

[N3ON]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Mystic must have some confidence to wake the Smash fanbase again.

 

[Idon]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Mystic must have some confidence to wake the Smash fanbase again.

Adding onto this, Atlus have recently trademarked Persona 5 S, Persona 5 M, and Persona 5 B, lending more credence to this. It's highly likely that said 3rd title will be M or B with Persona 5 U being the Arcsys fighter.

 

[osby]

Watch guys as the remaining four are Erdrick, Steve, Byleth/Edelgard and Gen 8 Pokemon.

Prepare for disappointment! Especially given Nintendo is choosing!

That sounds pretty exciting to me. My only disappointment would be if Pokemon turns out to be an uninteresting one, which is unlikely.

 

[recordagger]

My wishlist for the 16 slots

Plant
Joker
Darkrai
Maple Story Adventurer Thief
Angelic Buster
Tanaka Gundham
Aino Heart
Kefka Palazzo
Shantotto
Weiss
Shinguuji Korekiyo
Vatista
Izanami
Ouma Kokichi
Male Slayer (Dungeon Fighter Online)
Arceus

I agree with Kokichi

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Lets not get into that. Not when there's been people disputing that and we could wind up arguing in circles (I'm still very much leaning towards Chinderblock's take).

All too true.

 

[Robdelia]

I like that the instant the Fighter Pass got announced, people jumped on the "it's only going to be promotional picks" train because Corrin left a bad taste in their mouth. That's not even discussing if Corrin IS a promotional pick or not, and not just Sakurai and his boiz going "yo this dragon hybrid guy is pretty cool let's put him in Smash."
There's also the argument of "regular people wouldn't pay for fan favorites like Geno or Isaac" that completely glosses over Nintendo making Roy and Lucas DLC in 4, despite their games not even being available outside of Japan. Or the fact that they're charging $5 for a potted plant because they know people will buy it.

 

[MainJPW]

Watch guys as the remaining four are Erdrick, Steve, Byleth/Edelgard and Gen 8 Pokemon.

Prepare for disappointment! Especially given Nintendo is choosing!

I’m always prepared for disappointment.

 

[Guynamednelson]

that completely glosses over Nintendo making Roy and Lucas DLC in 4, despite their games not even being available outside of Japan.

I think the difference here is that Smash already exposed them to international audiences. But yes, if people were that narrow minded we wouldn't have memes like ROY'S OUR BOY and I FIGHT FOR MY FRIENDS and I'M REALLY FEELING IT and PK FIRE PK FIRE PK FIRE

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They were more justified by being actually popular characters and didn't feel forced for the sake of it. There's better choices like Shadow who is actually wanted. Shoehorning in the Classic version for the sake of it doesn't do much at all. Besides that, Daisy herself is pretty obviously someone who had a decent ballot presence. It's not hard to figure that out. Richter literally got in due to the ballot. Sonic is already there with barely anything modern(beyond a few moves and his design). Exactly where would the requests be for a second Sonic, an actual justification for him to be in? He already represents the entire franchise, new and old overall. So it's pretty doubtful Classic Sonic had any major votes, if any at all.

Without a ballot presence, there's no good reason to throw it in. "It can work" is not a reason that should exist in cases like this. At least when reusing the same character, they've made some pretty good design differences. All the Links are fairly different. Samus and Zero Suit Samus are blatantly different. So are Mario and Dr. Mario. An echo sounds like it would be completely pointless when there's a lack of ton of requests(I won't say it's impossible people requested him, but it's pretty doubtful). Dark Samus is a different person. The thing about every Echo is that they're actually different characters entirely.

At this point the only echo fighters I see pulling from the existing smash roster are Octolings (), Impa (), Shadow (), Proto Man (), and perhaps Mrs. Pac-Man () and Alph () if he is playable in Pikmin 4 whilist Olimar is not. (Please note that I'm not saying anything else couldn't happen just that these make the most sense to me.)

That sounds pretty exciting to me. My only disappointment would be if Pokemon turns out to be an uninteresting one, which is unlikely.

If they do pick a Pokémon then I hope they pick a legendary. I don't think any of the Galar starters would make for an interesting fighter.

 

[Guynamednelson]

(Please note that I'm not saying anything else couldn't happen just that these make the most sense to me.)

There's also Big Boss , Hector , Akuma if multiple echoes for one fighter (inb4 ) can be a thing, and if they can have several potential ones.

I don't think any of the Galar starters would make for an interesting fighter.

We haven't seen their fully evolved forms, but even then the only starter Pokemon I'd want is an echo for Squirtle if PT mons can have solo echoes.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

There's also Big Boss , Hector , Akuma if multiple echoes for one fighter (inb4 ) can be a thing, and if they can have several potential ones.

Isn't Big Boss's design already incorporated into Snake? Even if that isn't the case I think that he'd be better suited as an alternate costume than an echo. I feel like a lot of Ike's attacks would look awkward if Ragnell was swapped with an axe, but it wouldn't hurt to try. The question is weather or not Hector is popular enough to be on Nintendo's radar. As for Akuma, I was assuming one echo per fighter. It could happen though, as Akuma gets people really excited. Lastly, unless a Pikachu clone becomes immensely popular I don't think they'd add another even as an echo.

 

[andree123]

That theory really doesn't mean much whatsoever. Seems too fishy honestly. Mii Swordfighter could just as easily be a placeholder for Erdrick or Joker too with that logic. And PP has the same issue yet doesn't point to anyone. Shouldn't all 3 characters point to a DLC character? It should make some sense consistently. It's really just a weird coincidence at this point. It's simply a programming error that can happen. It happened with Mewtwo in 4 as well. Reality is, programming is fickle. Hit the wrong thing, and you can cause a big issue.

Dude, remember that in certain versions of ssb3ds, we fought kirby series characters in classic mode but the game thinks one of the kirby series characters' homestage is battlefield, which turns out to be a placeholder for dreamland 64.
I hope the dataminers can find the files related to Century Smash with and in it and find a new discovery that answers why did and cause the save corruption glitch in Century Smash.