Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[M@R!3]

DONTE! DONTE, PLEAS PLAE AS DONTE!

After the whole thing with Grant Kirkhope's comment, and so many ports in such a short time, I feel Dante's chance are just as good as any other highly discussed Capcom character.

 

[Senatiator]

FP 5 was Nintendo all along. We were so blind.

Omg, a Nintendo pick for a Nintendo game with Nintendo developing the game, funding it, publishing it, advertise it on their Social Media channels such as Twitter and YouTube, PR handling and interview, along with people still insisting it is a Nintendo crossover. Along with DLC being decided by Nintendo, hence time after time we gotten Piranha Plant, Mario Party spirits, Mii Costumes of Team Rocket, content Nintendo owns, instead of third parties like SoulCalibur, Lunar, Solaotrobo, Ninja Gaiden, Splinter Cell, Asura’s Wrath, Danganronpa, Ys, Yokai Watch, etc
https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...scrapped-initially-just-luminary-and-erdrick/
- From Sakurai’s side, he says that requests to add in a Dragon Quest representative have been around for a long time, but he felt it wasn’t possible.
- However, Nintendo approached Sakurai, saying it might be possible, and so he ended up doing the work presentation proposal with the intent of working with Dragon Quest, although what from Dragon Quest would be worked out later on.
It’s like this “pattern or trend” of DLC/new additions last time
Veterans = Piranha Plant
Konami = Simon Belmont
Sega Bayonetta = Joker
Capcom Ryu = Ken
Bandai Namco = Always Pac-Man, THE Namco rep
Square Enix new with Cloud Strife = Hero
Microsoft = New addition with Banjo Kazooie
SNK = New addition with Terry Bogard
Nintendo Corrin = ???

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan.

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 6, 2018

 

[Lamperouge]

Dante in Smash would be pretty sick but I kinda doubt that he's fighter #5.

 

[Wunderwaft]

At least I still have Leon to look forward to

Seriously, just put Resident Evil in Smash already.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Same could had been said forin the West who was added due to demand by the East.

Smash Bros. mainly focuses on Japanese games, so there's a greater pull from that side of things than a Western franchise. Not too mention, Dragon Quest helped invent the genre of JRPGs as we know it and has a 30 year legacy of pushing JRPGs forward in many ways. Assassin's Creed does nothing special or innovative that wasn't done before the first one released in 2007 (Grand Theft Auto, Splinter Cell, etc. were all the ones responsible for those innovations that AC built its game on).

“Assassin’s Creed has a core following in Japan, and it is one of the most successful Western series in Japan. There are many fans who like the historical settings, the fashion, detail in the buildings, and also they appreciate the full localization that goes into the Japanese version."

- Steve Miller, General Manager of Ubisoft Asia.

The sales numbers for the Assassin's Creed games sure don't communicate this point. They communicate less of an impact than Banjo-Kazooie because I can't find any sources that list a single Assassin's Creed game selling more than 200,000 copies in Japan, with most struggling to get to 100,000 sales in Japan based upon the weekly sales reports added up. That doesn't mean they're wholly unsuccessful, they obviously have some degree of success to keep showing up in Japan at all, but they're not some anomaly of greater sales either with regards to a Western franchise and their numbers show pretty average sales across the board for the franchise with an overall downward trend in recent years (which for Western games in Japan, is probably decent, but still not what I'd called notable). You can still have a core audience and be ultimately niche, which is exactly what the data communicates for Japan and AC. Of course a Ubisoft Asia manager is going to try to talk up the series like that, it's his job to be the positive force for Ubisoft like that.

Combine that with Assassin's Creed lack of originality and non-existent support for Smash, and it just seems like a very unlikely idea across the board to me unless Nintendo are desperate for some relationship with Ubisoft. I'm sticking to this assessment of the series and its chances for Smash. I think it's absolutely slept on for good reason.

 

[MooMew64]

I just want some Tales of content, lol.

That'd make me pretty darn pleased with the Fighter's Pass.

 

[Opossum]

Smash Bros. mainly focuses on Japanese games, so there's a greater pull from that side of things than a Western franchise. Not too mention, Dragon Quest helped invent the genre of JRPGs as we know it and has a 30 year legacy of pushing JRPGs forward in many ways. Assassin's Creed does nothing special or innovative that wasn't done before the first one released in 2007 (Grand Theft Auto, Splinter Cell, etc. were all the ones responsible for those innovations that AC built its game on).



The sales numbers for the Assassin's Creed games sure don't communicate this point. They communicate less of an impact than Banjo-Kazooie because I can't find any sources that list a single Assassin's Creed game selling more than 200,000 copies in Japan, with most struggling to get to 100,000 sales in Japan based upon the weekly sales reports added up. That doesn't mean they're wholly unsuccessful, they obviously have some degree of success to keep showing up in Japan at all, but they're not some anomaly of greater sales either with regards to a Western franchise and their numbers show pretty average sales across the board for the franchise with an overall downward trend in recent years (which for Western games in Japan, is probably decent, but still not what I'd called notable). You can still have a core audience and be ultimately niche, which is exactly what the data communicates for Japan and AC. Of course a Ubisoft Asia manager is going to try to talk up the series like that, it's his job to be the positive force for Ubisoft like that.

Combine that with Assassin's Creed lack of originality and non-existent support for Smash, and it just seems like a very unlikely idea across the board to me unless Nintendo are desperate for some relationship with Ubisoft. I'm sticking to this assessment of the series and its chances for Smash. I think it's absolutely slept on for good reason.

I'm sorry, but underplaying Assassin's Creed of all things like this just makes you seem out of touch. If literally Ubisoft itself is confident enough in its Japanese appeal to literally take out prime Akihabara ad space for it, it's popular there. I'd trust the guy in charge of knowing this stuff over someone doing armchair sales reports.

 

[CharacterCrisisKing]

Or a Namco character period



he’s probably still coming. Just... a bit later than you’d hope.

I’m hoping for Akira Howard, and Elma and/or Octoling (Octo Expansion) if Spirit promotions count

I meant I'll continue hoping for him as FP5.
I would slay you all and then myself if Dante made it to Smash.

 

[SKX31]

Resident Evil 5 and Resident Evil 6-- last gen games released in 2009 and 2012 respectively-- got their own two minute announcement trailer during Nintendo's E3 presser, complete with a live action acted sequence to build up its own hype. Why. These ports are the kinds of things you casually announce on Twitter and launch for another million or so copies, not something you announce in your limited time available for E3.

I'm gonna be the odd guy here and borrow off of Raycevick (a FPS Youtuber's) video, which I've qouted from a lot in this thread. I'm practically on the same boat when it comes to those two games:

I fully understand where you're coming from (and yea, I remember the initial reactions to 5 and 6): when a series drastically shifts (not to mention, doesn't even come close to the heights 4 got to) it's really really hard to take in stride. From a purely "I don't want to see this franchise die" standpoint. Still though, Capcom did put in a lot of work into 5 and 6, that was just completely misdirected in a lot of places. And it shows.

However, Raycevick (likely to your horror) stumbled upon RE5 being heavily discounted on Steam - years after RE5's release. He played, enjoyed RE5's wackiness and loved 6's unintentional Michael Bay. And he clarifies in the video, 6 is unarguably bad - he just argues that it's So Bad it's Hilarious. And I'm seriously leaning towards buying RE6 because of that video.

But now, with hindsight and the fact that the RE series continued? Despite the reasonable fears RE would be further derailed? It's honestly much easier to swallow for me at least, partly since Raycevick pointed out one thing in the video: 6 was used to build Revelations 2, and partly because of RE7. In a way, their legacies feel really strange.

I kinda think they were the games shown at E3 because they were the easiest to port to the Switch. 4 already got ported everywhere else, and maybe they wanted to divert some attention away from the RE remakes? Speculating, yes, but could see it.

 

[Garteam]

A little tardy to the party, but I figured I'd give my two cents. While I do believe spirits deconfirm for Fighter Pass #5, deconfiming for post-Fighter's Pass characters seems a little odd to me. If Sakurai really wanted to add a character, especially if he was looking back to Nintendo for potential options this time around, I really don't think he'd stop himself because he put a jpeg and simulated fight against the character in game, especially if he did sincerely believe there would be no DLC post-Fighter's Pass.

I'm a little more on the fence about Assist Trophies. On the one hand, there's nothing stopping him, especially since we know there's an option in game to turn off certain assist trophies when certain variables are met. On the other hand, they're a lot more fleshed out and impact general gameplay a lot more. I could really see it going either way.

 

[Night Gale]

DONTE!

You're the first person I've seen request that version. It'll have the best soundtrack.

 

[M@R!3]

You're the first person I've seen request that version.

I wasn't requesting that version actually. I was referencing a Vinesauce meme.

 

[Calamitas]

I meant I'll continue hoping for him as FP5.
I would slay you all and then myself if Dante made it to Smash.

You really need to chill.

 

[SNEKeater]

Hmm.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I feel Dante is definitely coming post FP, assuming he ain't the last fighter on the pass.

10/10 game, one of the best action games in the industry and should be played by anyone who likes crazy action games.

That said, I don't think Dante would be FP5, basically for what Itsuno said at the beginning of the year. Post-pass? I think he has good chances.
(Also DMC3 on Switch releases on february the final month for the fighter pass that obviously means Dante will be FP5 and come out in february haha)

 

[osby]

A little tardy to the party, but I figured I'd give my two cents. While I do believe spirits deconfirm for Fighter Pass #5, deconfiming for post-Fighter's Pass characters seems a little odd to me. If Sakurai really wanted to add a character, especially if he was looking back to Nintendo for potential options this time around, I really don't think he'd stop himself because he put a jpeg and simulated fight against the character in game, especially if he did sincerely believe there would be no DLC post-Fighter's Pass.

I don't think many people claim that Spirits are unable to be promoted and Sakurai cornered himself with them.

The key phrase is "if Sakurai really wanted them". If he really wanted them, why they aren't in the base game? And why would he immediately go back to Nintendo after an all-third-party pass is immensely successful and guest characters have a lot of potential?

Spirit promotions aren't impossible but that doesn't mean they are likely.

 

[CharacterCrisisKing]

You really need to chill.

Yes, I do.
I'm not going to chill though; I prefer myself as the demonic embodiment of rage. Besides, with the power of MS Paint Lucina in my veins, I can never chill.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I'm sorry, but underplaying Assassin's Creed of all things like this just makes you seem out of touch. If literally Ubisoft itself is confident enough in its Japanese appeal to literally take out prime Akihabara ad space for it, it's popular there. I'd trust the guy in charge of knowing this stuff over someone doing armchair sales reports.

I'm not trying to underplay Assassin's Creed as a series, it's massive series that continues to sell incredibly well in the West above many franchises and if it gets in, it gets in on that Western audience.

But in Japan, I don't see the evidence. Yes, I am "arm chair analyzing," but these are public figures available to everyone, not some obscurely sourced stuff. Square Enix has made large pushes and advertisements for Dragon Quest in the West multiple times, but that doesn't mean the series has ever been super successful over here. It has an audience in the West like Assassin's Creed has an audience in the East, which is to say neither communicate huge or necessarily impressive sales figures. It's the job of someone in a position of power at Ubisoft of Asia to promote the titles with positivity and reaffirmation, of course they're going to try their best to communicate that idea of Assassin's Creed as a successful IP in Japan. And that success can simply be marked by that core audience buying the games in enough of a quantity to turn profits and keep future titles releasing in the region.

But I continue to stand by the idea that Nintendo and Sakurai prioritize the Japanese market in their approach to Smash DLC and in general. I think Western characters are going to be few and far between, and that means selection of such characters is going to be a much tighter process that "good enough" isn't really going to mean a whole lot. A title like Doom carries the FPS genre on its back as the innovator or Crash Bandicoot was significantly more popular in Japan as a whole and is also heavily requested by Smash fans in this day and age. They've got influence and fan support to push them more to the top of that pile, where I don't think Assassin's Creed really has that on its side in any area. There's no one defining aspect of Assassin's Creed as a Smash pick that elevates it over other Western options or defines it as a good pick for Smash besides great Western sales. That's my argument here, and to be fair, I may have phrased it poorly in some places. The Japanese sales data isn't there, the fan support for AC in Smash isn't there, and the influence on the industry isn't really there either. All are knocks against the game.

I'm not saying it's impossible for AC to get in, but I'm being brutally honest in my assessment of its chances for Smash. I admit I'm operating somewhat from a place of bias because I think the series is a bit **** and has done very little to take advantage of what should have been an ideal premise beyond making some occasionally beautiful locales and a decent climbing system. I'm not going to deny it's a massive series, because I just factually can't based upon the sales data worldwide, but all I've seen to back up AC in Japan is a Ubisoft of Asia representative's quote. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong and I'll eat crow, but I need something more convincing for the Japanese perspective and that still doesn't make up for the other areas that AC struggles in as a candidate for Smash.

 

[PrettyIvyPearls22]

The Gordon Freeman thing actually seemed to have went on for a week, and by the end of the week is completly donzo! We are back at Square one, which is we still don't know NOTHING! Aside from deconfirmations, the best we have is who is actually NOT Fighter #5 than we know of a hint as to who it is! How many deconfirmations are we going to get here from the TGA's?! I'm still on my RE or Sora train for Fighter 5 with Lloyd being on the back burner.

Push pretty much described that whole Gordon Freeman "leak" in the best way possible and look at where we are a week later!

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1198370905241444353

 

[Guynamednelson]

If he really wanted them, why they aren't in the base game? And why would he immediately go back to Nintendo after an all-third-party pass is immensely successful and guest characters have a lot of potential?

1. Because he didn't have all the resources and the base game was focused on veterans
2. Because part of that success is attributed to not one, but two franchises with a strong Nintendo connection.

 

[3BitSaurus]

As much as I'd rather have Rayman (and as much as Ubi seemed to want him in too), AC is still one of their top dogs and is more successful than the limbless hero in Japan. That just can't be denied.

I'd be meh for Ezio (AC was never really my cup of tea), but "lack of originality" seems like... a weird way to judge whether a series is viable for Smash or not.

 

[osby]

You know, I actually don't mind the "leak of the week" thing that's going on for a while now.

Even if they are fake, it's super educating and occasionally fun. I'd rather have this than another "Brave"-like drama that drags on and on.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The Gordon Freeman thing actually seemed to have went on for a week, and by the end of the week is completly donzo! We are back at Square one, which is we still don't know NOTHING! Aside from deconfirmations, the best we have is who is actually NOT Fighter #5 than we know of a hint as to who it is! How many deconfirmations are we going to get here from the TGA's?! I'm still on my RE or Sora train for Fighter 5 with Lloyd being on the back burner.

Push pretty much described that whole Gordon Freeman "leak" in the best way possible and look at where we are a week later!

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1198370905241444353

It accomplished something, we had something to talk about for a week.

Two and bit weeks to go...

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Imagine if Fighter 5 doesn't get revealed at the game awards.

 

[MooMew64]

Imagine if Fighter 5 doesn't get revealed at the game awards.

I'd pretty much just laugh it off and settle in for that January reveal wait.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think people need to consider a reason for the lack of AT/Poke Ball/Spirit promotions that is far bigger than "muh normies" or some of them not being able to add enough new content: The FP character choices were locked in too early to acknowledge community responses to disconfirmations.

 

[Will]

* Will is typing *

no need the type

the karma speaks for itself

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Imagine if Fighter 5 doesn't get revealed at the game awards.

Instead its the 7th of December.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Instead its the 7th of December.

February 29th but it's a shadow drop.

 

[Flyboy]

You know, I actually don't mind the "leak of the week" thing that's going on for a while now.

Even if they are fake, it's super educating and occasionally fun. I'd rather have this than another "Brave"-like drama that drags on and on.

Yeah, I'm with you. Say what you will, at least it got people talking about a surprising potential option in Gordon. People who knew about him got to talk about him and educate those that didn't, and I like that. It's like when Sakura Shinguji came up that one time. Anything that shakes up the day-to-day doldrums of speculation is welcome in my eyes.

 

[cothero]

Oh, boy. I never hoped Vergeben to be so wrong about deconfirming a character. He certainly might had heard some names or what company is involved with fighter #5, but i guess we'll have to wait a litte longer to get some info.










I really wanted Gordon in Smash.

 

[Pendranome]

Here's a little game: if every company currently in Ultimate had 5 unique reps from different franchises, what characters would you give them?

Konami: Snake, Simon, Bill Rizer, Frogger, Shiori Fujisaki
Sega: Sonic, Bayonetta, Joker, Kiryu, Axel Stone
Capcom: Mega Man, Ryu, Leon S. Kennedy, Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright
Bandai-Namco: Pac-Man, Heihaichi, Lloyd Irving, Sophitia, KOS-MOS
Square-Enix: Cloud, Hero, Geno, Sora, Lara Croft
Microsoft: Banjo, Steve, Master Chief, Rash, Joanna Dark
SNK: Terry (as a Fatal Fury rep), Kyo Kusanagi (as a KoF rep), Nakoruru, Marco Rossi, Jeanne D'Arc

Tons of cool characters from each company but if I had my way it would be...
Konami: Snake, Simon/Richter, Leo Stenbuck, Sparkster, Bill Rizer
Sega: Sonic, Bayonetta, Joker, Beat/Gum, Gunstar Red/Blue
Capcom: Mega Man, Ryu/Ken, Viewtiful Joe, Tron Bonne, B.B. Hood
Namco: Pac-Man, Klonoa, KOS-MOS, Lloyd Irving, Kite
Square: Cloud, Hero, Sora, Gex, Lara Croft
Microsoft: Banjo, Rash, Fulgore, Conker, Joanna Dark
SNK: Terry, Marco/Tarma, Fio/Eri, Athena Asamiya, Haohmaru

 

[Calamitas]

You all keep going on about how the Game Awards are so perfect for revealing FP5, but honestly? I'd hate if they revealed a new fighter there again. I prefer seeing these announcements live, and there's no way in hell that I'm staying up from 2 AM to about 4 AM just for a show that, from what I hear, is full of pointless, self-indulgent drivel.

Yes, I do.
I'm not going to chill though; I prefer myself as the demonic embodiment of rage. Besides, with the power of MS Paint Lucina in my veins, I can never chill.

You're an edgelord, got it.

 

[Deleted member]

You all keep going on about how the Game Awards are so perfect for revealing FP5, but honestly? I'd hate if they revealed a new fighter there again. I prefer seeing these announcements live, and there's no way in hell that I'm staying up from 2 AM to about 4 AM just for a show that, from what I hear, is full of pointless, self-indulgent drivel.

Tbh, part of the appeal of Joker's reveal was sticking it out through the VGA for over 2 hours. It was an amazing experience I'd recommend trying once. Make sure you have friends to watch it with though.

 

[MooMew64]

You all keep going on about how the Game Awards are so perfect for revealing FP5, but honestly? I'd hate if they revealed a new fighter there again. I prefer seeing these announcements live, and there's no way in hell that I'm staying up from 2 AM to about 4 AM just for a show that, from what I hear, is full of pointless, self-indulgent drivel.

No one really watches it for the awards part. They watch it for the reveals, especially since it's become quite a hotspot for big reveals in recent years. It's basically a mini E3 in Winter nowadays.

I don't think I'd call it "full of pointless, self-indulgent drivel", personally. Developers receive awards and are grateful, that's about it. Yes, there is cringe, but there's always cringe at a major event, lol.

 

[Nightguything]

I just want some Tales of content, lol.

That'd make me pretty darn pleased with the Fighter's Pass.

I’ve put all my hopes into Lloyd, knowing he’d come with an abundance of Tales stuff

 

[Calamitas]

Tbh, part of the appeal of Joker's reveal was sticking it out through the VGA for over 2 hours. It was an amazing experience I'd recommend trying once. Make sure you have friends to watch it with though.

I'll say it again: It goes from 2:30 AM to 4:30 AM for me, on a weekday. No way in hell I'm sitting through something like that.

 

[Schnee117]

tfw people are getting back on the Dante train because of when the DMC3 port releases

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You all keep going on about how the Game Awards are so perfect for revealing FP5, but honestly? I'd hate if they revealed a new fighter there again. I prefer seeing these announcements live, and there's no way in hell that I'm staying up from 2 AM to about 4 AM just for a show that, from what I hear, is full of pointless, self-indulgent drivel.



You're an edgelord, got it.

I mean, do what I do, go to bed and wait the next day

 

[MooMew64]

I’ve put all my hopes into Lloyd, knowing he’d come with an abundance of Tales stuff

My personal want is Yuri, but I'm realistic and know it's Lloyd or nothing.

TBH, I'm not getting my own hopes for FP5 all that high. Odds are it'll be something I find bleh personally, but I'll still be happy for other people.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'll say it again: It goes from 2:30 AM to 4:30 AM for me, on a weekday. No way in hell I'm sitting through something like that.

Just sleep it out and check tomorrow if there is any interesting reveals.

I'm not going to sit through the VGA myself, even if I get another "You mean Joker from Batman?" like wake up call the next morning....