Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

Just give the PNGs flavour text to tell us more about then, Ultimate not doing this is one of my few criticisms about it

I want spirit rematches for the ones already beaten too.

 

[Arcadenik]

They should bring back trophies and tone down the amount; instead of putting countless random trophies of items and meaningless elements, just put the trophies of the most important characters from each franchise, especially those who weren't lucky enough to appear in the game as a fighter, as a boss or as an assist trophies.

Or at least just the trophies of characters, objects, and locations that are actually in the game as playable fighters, Assist Trophies, items, Pokeball Pokemon, Mii Fighter costumes, Adventure Mode enemies, stages, stage hazards, or stage background cameos.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Just 1, . Although, I wouldn't say I'm dissatisfied by this DLC by any means. Joker, Banjo, and Terry are all really fun to play and worth the money, even if I never wanted them myself.

That being said, I'm a little surprised to see that 1 seems to be the consistent number in this thread. For all the rhetoric of "3rd parties have more universal appeal than first parties", it goes to show this may not necessarily ring true with the core audience who plays Smash.

I mean, there's a difference between liking a character and actively wanting them before they got in

 

[Garteam]

I mean, there's a difference between liking a character and actively wanting them before they got in

This is true, but I think there's still value in adding characters that the core fanbase requested. For example, and probably wouldn't mean much to most, but they were a massive deal for those involved in the Smash fanbase. That's one of the things Smash is really good at, the roster is a strong balance between "I never knew I wanted this, but now I do" and "I've always wanted this character in Smash".

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This is true, but I think there's still value in adding characters that the core fanbase requested. For example, and probably wouldn't mean much to most, but they were a massive deal for those involved in the Smash fanbase. That's one of the things Smash is really good at, the roster is a strong balance between "I never knew I wanted this, but now I do" and "I've always wanted this character in Smash".

At the same time the community is hella divided. You'd think nobody asked for any Dragon Quest content here yet the Hero trailer has more views than any other trailer on the official Smash channel, making them a case of both

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Just give the PNGs flavour text to tell us more about then, Ultimate not doing this is one of my few criticisms about it

1000+ Flavor text descriptions that have to be translated into multiple different languages would be quite a bit of a workload, I’m disappointed by it but I can see why they decided to skip it this game.

 

[TheTuninator]

I don't think trophies should come back, personally. I'm not a game dev, but it sounds like having to create a large amount of high-definition character models can be extremely painful these days; I remember the P5 team saying that modeling all of the Personas was extremely grueling. I'd rather they not pour that much effort into something that most fans barely, if ever interact with.

 

[Guynamednelson]

create a large amount of high-definition character models

Melee was the only one in which a large percentage of trophies had all-new models instead of ones recycled from other games. However, they do have to convert the models to work on Smash's engine, pose them, write descriptions for all the languages...

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think trophies should come back, personally. I'm not a game dev, but it sounds like having to create a large amount of high-definition character models can be extremely painful these days; I remember the P5 team saying that modeling all of the Personas was extremely grueling. I'd rather they not pour that much effort into something that most fans barely, if ever interact with.

I like spirits as a scrapbook idea. It's a great way to view some original art for some characters and it makes me forget the horrifying World of Light implications of each character. Collecting them for collection sake is super fun.

Trophies are really awesome, though. Shame development time for base game had to make compromises.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I don't think trophies should come back, personally. I'm not a game dev, but it sounds like having to create a large amount of high-definition character models can be extremely painful these days; I remember the P5 team saying that modeling all of the Personas was extremely grueling. I'd rather they not pour that much effort into something that most fans barely, if ever interact with.

Speaking of, with what little knowledge I have of 3D modeling, the problem Game Freak ran into was that their supposedly future proofed models didn't play well with the new engine so that's why they've had so much difficulty. I wonder who was responsible and at what level for the choice. It's the same sort of thing that borked Mass Effect Andromeda.

That said, I'm liking almost all the new Pokemon so far but thus far none stand out to me as a Smash potential. But Sakurai and Bandai Namco have shown us they can make movesets out of unconventional Pokemon in both Smash and Pokken.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Speaking of, with what little knowledge I have of 3D modeling, the problem Game Freak ran into was that their supposedly future proofed models didn't play well with the new engine so that's why they've had so much difficulty.

If that's true then why did they not fix the issue instead of brute forcing the models in there? Sounds like they picked the option that's both disappointing to fans and aggravating to the devs.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If that's true then why did they not fix the issue instead of brute forcing the models in there? Sounds like they picked the option that's both disappointing to fans and aggravating to the devs.

Because that takes time and TPC doesn't let Game Freak have time to fix things

 

[RandomAce]

I don’t really like spirits that much. I understand that trophies would be pretty difficult to implement and there wasn’t much to them, but Spirits feel pretty worthless to me since they are reused artworks, a lot of which you can find online (and there’s been some evidence of that as well). The idea is neat, but it is something that wasn’t well thought out due to time constraints, I think even Sakurai has admitted to it as well as being something he’s not interested in bringing back.

It’s also why I don’t really like it when people use spirits as a reason against a character, at least for those added base game. Sure they are a part of the Smash series and have at least been recognized, but there really isn’t anything else beyond that.

In my opinion, I would’ve liked it much more if let’s say, Spirits had new artwork created for specifically for Smash. It would be more work, and less would be added in the long run, but it would make Spirits feel more valuable and that more thought has been put for those characters that didn’t become playable.

 

[Momotsuki]

Game Freak rushed the absolute hell out of SwSh and it definitely shows. The game is a mess that is maybe worth the price of a higher-end eShop game. There're absolutely no excuses for rushing a game that bad, much less outright admitting you were rushing it pre-launch. They honestly should be really, really ashamed of what they decided to release. The worst part is that SwSh, from what I've seen of it, has the potential to be a darn good Pokemon experience if they'd just put the time that's needed into it. Somewhere beneath the cheap corner-cutting, there's a good game down there!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Because that takes time and TPC doesn't let Game Freak have time to fix things

*sigh* They're the owners of the highest grossing media franchise in the world. You'd think they could afford to give Game Freak the time and money they need to do more than just the bare minimum.

EDIT: I'd say I hope the games bomb to send them a message, but the message they'd receive would probably be "Oh. They don't like the mainline titles anymore. Let's just reduce the series to just gatcha games then".

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don’t really like spirits that much. I understand that trophies would be pretty difficult to implement and there wasn’t much to them, but Spirits feel pretty worthless to me since they are reused artworks, a lot of which you can find online (and there’s been some evidence of that as well). The idea is neat, but it is something that wasn’t well thought out due to time constraints, I think even Sakurai has admitted to it as well as being something he’s not interested in bringing back.

It’s also why I don’t really like it when people use spirits as a reason against a character, at least for those added base game. Sure they are a part of the Smash series and have at least been recognized, but there really isn’t anything else beyond that.

In my opinion, I would’ve liked it much more if let’s say, Spirits had new artwork created for specifically for Smash. It would be more work, and less would be added in the long run, but it would make Spirits feel more valuable and that more thought has been put for those characters that didn’t become playable.

I mean, Spirits also serve gameplay purposes and tend to have quite a bit of love put into them, that's more damning for future DLC than if they were JUST pngs.

 

[M@R!3]

I'm 0-4 for dlc picks. For base roster I got Ridley, Inkling, and a nice bonus in Dark Samus. There's also a lot of characters who've made it in over the years that I've wanted, but I knew I wouldn't play because they don't fit my play style.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

*sigh* They're the owners of the highest grossing media franchise in the world. You'd think they could afford to give Game Freak the time and money they need to do more than just the bare minimum.

Yeah but that means less money or money coming later instead of money coming now. What do CEOs care more about?

 

[SKX31]

Game Freak rushed the absolute hell out of SwSh and it definitely shows. The game is a mess that is maybe worth the price of a higher-end eShop game.

It really looks like they had some ideas, but Game Freak really, really wanted the games out by the Christmas window and they didn't have time to include stuff like all the Pokemon models, characterization (Hop is the worst best character in Pokemon IMO) etc. I feel TPC / GF should've waited until the Chinese release at least, if not longer. Sw / Sh is ranking really high there, probably because it's the first mainline Pokemon game they'll be able to legally get period.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It really looks like they had some ideas, but Game Freak really, really wanted the games out by the Christmas window and they didn't have time to include stuff like all the Pokemon models, characterization (Hop is the worst best character in Pokemon*) etc. I feel TPC / GF should've waited until the Chinese release at least, if not longer. Sw / Sh is ranking really high there, probably because it's the first mainline Pokemon game they'll be able to legally get period.

Game Freak has zero control of the deadline, TPC gives them the deadline and they just have to deal with it. TPC plans merch and **** so far in advance to make sure Game Freak can never delay the game because otherwise that screws everyone over

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Yeah, true. I don't remember a single occasion outside of MvCI where Chris was the one chosen protagonist for RE. Meanwhile, Jill and Leon have done so on quite a few occasions - the former is seen as the face of the franchise in the 90s and the latter is very popular and, as far as Smash is concerned, has closer ties to Nintendo.

Heck, look at Teppen and MH World - Jill is so far the only RE protagonist to join the former - and I suspect Wesker only got in before her because they needed another "villain or enemy" character. As for MH, we got Leon and Claire.

IIRC Capcom didn't even start pushing Chris that hard until post-Resident Evil 5. He didn't show up in Marvel vs Capcom until after he became a boulder-punching beefcake, and prior to that Jill and Leon were the main faces of the franchise. I have a feeling Sakurai would want to prioritize classic RE over than whatever the hell RE5 and 6 were, and since Chris' most notable appearances were in those games I'd think they'd go for Jill or Leon instead.

 

[UserKev]

Imagine having to design a course that's somewhat of a challenge for both Kirby and Little Mac. lol

Wait a minute, is Little Mac the reason we can't have Break the Targets anymore?!?


That'd be cool. Especially if the CPU strength is either fixed or not tied to the stopping point.

Super Easy: The Original Twelve
Easy: Into the Melee
Medium: Bring on the Brawl
Hard: Of Handhelds and Home Consoles
Very Hard: Everyone is Here!

EDIT: Ooh! And each round uses the respective game's Main Theme.

You can easily make a ground theme Break The Targets for Little Mac. Have them teleport across the stage, move backward and forward and hover upward and downward at the length of Little Mac's recovery, done deal.

 

[Deleted member]

If Pokemon aren't cut, then how are they supposed to make even more money by selling them as DLC later down the line?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If Pokemon aren't cut, then how are they supposed to make even more money by selling them as DLC later down the line?

No they wouldn't do that as that'd eat time and resources for the expanded edition.

Also uhhh newcomers good, we should talk about them

 

[SKX31]

Game Freak has zero control of the deadline, TPC gives them the deadline and they just have to deal with it. TPC plans merch and **** so far in advance to make sure Game Freak can never delay the game because otherwise that screws everyone over

Ah, gotcha, my mistake. Didn't know about that.

EDIT: I'd say I hope the games bomb to send them a message, but the message they'd receive would probably be "Oh. They don't like the mainline titles anymore. Let's just reduce the series to just gatcha games then".

That's always been a problem with the industry. Video game companies have one very strong incentive: to make sure people play them as long as possible (and so the companies can rely on games for income). Whether it's Capcom's "Release as many expansions to SF2 as possible" or pachinko / gacha / microtransactions.

I think we'll get part of our answer when Tencent unveils their Pokemon game. But I don't have high hopes for that one, because of Tencent's (specifically TiMi's, Tencent's main game studio) track record.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You can easily make a ground theme Break The Targets for Little Mac. Have them teleport across the stage, move backward and forward and hover upward and downward at the length of Little Mac's recovery, done deal.

I was thinking in terms of the general courses like in Brawl.

 

[Night Gale]

My wanted one-off character from a 1st party franchise developed by a 3rd party company is from The Legend of Zelda.

A sorceress with insectoid transformations would have been sick Imo. She also would've had four Dark Links in her Final Smash.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My wanted one-off character from a 1st party franchise developed by a 3rd party company is from The Legend of Zelda.

Spoiler: Image

A sorceress with insectoid transformations would have been sick Imo.

I have never seen this character before. What game did she appear in?

 

[RandomAce]

I mean, Spirits also serve gameplay purposes and tend to have quite a bit of love put into them, that's more damning for future DLC than if they were JUST pngs.

I acknowledged that in my post, that’s why I said that they have been recognized and why it at least for spirits added base game. DLC seems to be a different ballgame since new spirits could be saved until a character from their game ever gets in later.

I’m just saying why I’m not too invested in spirits. I have Smash, but I’m definitely not planning on grinding to get every spirit anytime soon.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I acknowledged that in my post, that’s why I said that they have been recognized and why it at least for spirits added base game. DLC seems to be a different ballgame since new spirits would be saved until a character from their game ever gets in later.

I’m just saying why I’m not too invested in spirits. I have Smash, but I’m definitely not planning on grinding to get every spirit anytime soon.

My mistake, I must have misread it

 

[Evil Trapezium]

IIRC Capcom didn't even start pushing Chris that hard until post-Resident Evil 5. He didn't show up in Marvel vs Capcom until after he became a boulder-punching beefcake, and prior to that Jill and Leon were the main faces of the franchise. I have a feeling Sakurai would want to prioritize classic RE over than whatever the hell RE5 and 6 were, and since Chris' most notable appearances were in those games I'd think they'd go for Jill or Leon instead.

I think it would please everyone if Resident Evil got the Hero treatment where Chris is the default costume along with Jill, Leon and Claire as alternate costumes.

 

[Night Gale]

I have never seen this character before. What game did she appear in?

Veran is from Oracle of Ages. Both Oracle games (Seasons/Ages) are the **** btw. I highly recommend them.

 

[SKX31]

whatever the hell RE5 and 6 were

If RE games were cheesefest films a la Ahnold's Red Heat. Only you get to play them:

The video creator made a great point though: 6 was used to help build Revelations 2, and Capcom did learn a pretty important lesson from that really bad time period (IIRC this was around the same time as DMC: DMC and the Mega Man debacles).

I think it would please everyone if Resident Evil got the Hero treatment where Chris is the default costume along with Jill, Leon and Claire as alternate costumes.

Not completely sure that'd work honestly. Maaybe if you go basic, but I get the impression that Chris and Jill are different enough.

 

[Seanapotamus]

I remember when it was announced that Nintendo had a list of characters for the Fighters Pass, fans thought that it would go the Corrin route (which was definitely pushed by Nintendo to promote Fates, which hadn't even come out in the west at the time - even Sakurai was hesitant about adding yet another FE character) and it was believed the characters chosen would include Byleth/Edelgard (who actually could be future DLC), one of the Pokemon from Sword and Shield (based on the reactions to SwSh in general as well as the new Pokemon being met with mixed opinions, it is a good thing they didn't go this route in the current cycle), and Sylux (that'll have to wait a while since Metroid Prime 4, if he's in there, had to have its development restarted). But then was revealed at TGA's last year and it blew everyone's minds especially with how the reveal was set up. With the way the Fighters Pass is going right now, I'm eager to see who #5 is pretty soon.

 

[Guynamednelson]

and there’s been some evidence of that as well

Anything else besides DeviantArt Masked Man?

 

[MooMew64]

Since we have no news on FP5 yet, here's a simple question for ya'll:

How many characters you wanted in Smash are currently in the Fighter Pass? Right now, I'm 0 - 4, which kills me inside that this Fighter Pass hasn't had anyone that I wanted to see.

I'm 3 - 4. Joker was a pipe dream pick that made me lose my mind, and Hero was one of those "never knew I wanted until I saw it" kind of characters. Banjo is super cool and I like him, even if I wanted Minecraft content more. I'm personally not into Terry or SNK.

For base game, I got my most wanted (Inklings), two Metroid reps, and K. Rool. Base game treated me pretty good, lol.

 

[SKX31]

I remember when it was announced that Nintendo had a list of characters for the Fighters Pass, fans thought that it would go the Corrin route (which was definitely pushed by Nintendo to promote Fates, which hadn't even come out in the west at the time - even Sakurai was hesitant about adding yet another FE character) and it was believed the characters chosen would include Byleth/Edelgard (who actually could be future DLC), one of the Pokemon from Sword and Shield (based on the reactions to SwSh in general as well as the new Pokemon being met with mixed opinions, it is a good thing they didn't go this route in the current cycle), and Sylux (that'll have to wait a while since Metroid Prime 4, if he's in there, had to have its development restarted). But then was revealed at TGA's last year and it blew everyone's minds especially with how the reveal was set up. With the way the Fighters Pass is going right now, I'm eager to see who #5 is pretty soon.

Nintendo (and Furukawa in particular) realized probably that they jumped the gun with Corrin. So letting Sakurai pick out of Nintendo's list feels to me like a win-win compromise: Nintendo - with Furukawa at the helm - has the manpower and the ability to create / maintain connections, while Sakurai knows what will or won't work in game.

We should also take Furukawa into account I feel. He's fully okay with a lineup that so far consists of /// - only Hero feels like a megaton character, and that in Japan. Sure, Furukawa's a marketing guy (that's how he made it up Nintendo's ranks to become President), but he grew up with the Famicom. He also appears to be pretty damn realistic and smart overall. Yes, he has significant weaknesses too - but I'm happy with him, and that he's willingly working with Sakurai.

 

[Jassassino]

Since we have no news on FP5 yet, here's a simple question for ya'll:

How many characters you wanted in Smash are currently in the Fighter Pass? Right now, I'm 0 - 4, which kills me inside that this Fighter Pass hasn't had anyone that I wanted to see.

Who did you want?

I had no expectations/particular wants for a Smash Character. Out of the pass when it comes to franchise reps I'm fans of and love it's currently just Joker. I enjoy KOF and DQ games but I'm not a fan. As for BK, actually never played a Banjo game.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Nintendo (and Furukawa in particular) realized probably that they jumped the gun with Corrin. So letting Sakurai pick out of Nintendo's list feels to me like a win-win compromise: Nintendo - with Furukawa at the helm - has the manpower and the ability to create / maintain connections, while Sakurai knows what will or won't work in game.

We should also take Furukawa into account I feel. He's fully okay with a lineup that so far consists of /// - only Hero feels like a megaton character, and that in Japan. Sure, Furukawa's a marketing guy (that's how he made it up Nintendo's ranks to become President), but he grew up with the Famicom. He also appears to be pretty damn realistic and smart overall. Yes, he has significant weaknesses too - but I'm happy with him, and that he's willingly working with Sakurai.

I know Sakurai said that “Nintendo” chose the DLC lineup, but I do wonder who exactly at Nintendo was calling the shots for DLC.

Did it go all the way up to Furukawa? We’re others at Nintendo involved in the selection and negotiation process? We may never know exactly how DLC creation went down, but it’s interesting speculation.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Since we have no news on FP5 yet, here's a simple question for ya'll:

How many characters you wanted in Smash are currently in the Fighter Pass? Right now, I'm 0 - 4, which kills me inside that this Fighter Pass hasn't had anyone that I wanted to see.

I cobbled together this wishlist when Smash Ultimate was first announced, and promised myself that I would be happy with the final roster if any one of them made it in.
I'm two for five now and adore what Ultimate has given me, although if Sakurai added a proper Zelda newcomer, that would elevate my love for this iteration of Smash even further.