Newbie Mafia 22: Cave Story - Game Over!

[#HBC | Ryker]

looks like no one grabbed the tow rope

go town!

That may be the best "Bah!" post I've ever seen.

Sorry I've been V/LA. Life got rough for me for a little while there. I'm around and haven't read. I'll read the game tonight.

I have nothing at the moment, but will have something when I get a chance to read. In the meantime, JDitz and Loli should tell me what my reads should be. Taco and MM should tell me what's wrong with them.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Anyone notice how 2 out of the 4 people Loli wanted to lynch were revealed to be town?

Also, JTB, the night kill, was also on the top of Loli's lynch list.



R.I.P. Joker and JTB.

What do you make of that? What if I told you that Loli didn't kill anyone last night?

 

[LoliLovesRain]

Orz I should probably tell you guys that for my lynch picks I just picked the first 4 people to confirm first xD it was either do that or I probably would n

 

[LoliLovesRain]

Ebwop: would not have said too much.

I hate using my iPod ugh I just don't have wifi at home but I'm at school ATM so I have it.

 

[Pyra]

What do you make of that? What if I told you that Loli didn't kill anyone last night?

I think it's downright scummy. It just shows that she's not really trying to hunt scum, just picking names...

And if you told me that I'd ask to be convinced of that fact.

Orz I should probably tell you guys that for my lynch picks I just picked the first 4 people to confirm first xD

That really doesn't help town... at all...
Vote: Loli

 

[sneakytako]

So I've re-read day 1, and I'm 80% sure that Badwolf is scum.

There's the whole hammer issue, but putting that aside I have a few other reasons why I suspect Badwolf:

1.)

So, am I scum?

Ok, what do you think I am?

This is his defence when Loli says that scum Badwolf doesn't trust anyone. In my eyes he pretty much says ' You can't lynch me if you don't have the evidence'. After posting so little prior to this post, why would you make this kind of defence? What good would looking for lean town reads on Badwolf be when Loli and Joker were going against each other?

2.)

So, am I scum?

She's playing differently. If I would have to say, I would go null-scum. She's not usually this... active.

And I don't trust her.

Eh, not really, I never said that I didn't trust anyone, just her.

So first when Loli started going against Joker, you proclaim that you don't trust Loli.

Um, I'm back but I could very well be V/LA again without notice. There are storms everywhere and one's already knocked out my internet once.

So, I'm not entirely sold on the Joker nor the Loli lynch. I would probably go Joker over Loli because she's being a little bit more helpful in her new playstyle, but I would like you both to claim and I'll go from there.

She's just being Loli, idk. She's rather erratic at her best of times and I can see where she would have felt the need to comment on it. I have problems lynching Loli right now just because of her meta. It speaks to me and says "town", but people can change metas very easily and I still don't trust her.

Then you proclaim that based on your prior play experience with Loli, you now trust her. What made you change your mind? Was it possibly because the Joker lynch was gathering strength?

3.)

Joker is not the play today with loli on the wagon, she's admitted she's solely.voting him so she can't be called a sheep, not because he's scum. Let our cop deal with joker

First JTB drops the ball by making the assumption of the existance of a cop. Since this is a semi-open game, the cops existance would only be known by the cop.

You know what? I dare Cop to investigate me or Loli toNight.

Then he provokes 'the cop' to investigate him. JTB responds by stating that 'the cop' wouldn't waste his vote. This in my eyes seems like Badwolf wanting to identitfy the cop.

Well, I want cop to investigate Loli or I. I will start laughing my *** off once they get a neg on me and her.

Cop, I ****ING DARE YOU.

Well, apparently someone has me as scum. I'm very willing to be investigated.

But Badwolf continues to provoke the cop and confirm the identity of the cop. While I understand that townies knowing the cop could coordinate their efforts, but making it obvious to scum is terrible. Why would Badwolf seek confirmation of the cop's identity when he already has a hunch to who it is? Why would Badwolf ask the cop to confirm town status by clearing himself when there was almost no heat on him? Could it be that Badwolf provoked the cop into revealing himself in order to night kill him?

Vote: Badwolf

 

[Monstmrna]

^I was actually gonna make a badwolf case because that hammer was hella scummy. You did it for me so...

vote:badwolf

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Toaster, talk to me about Badwolf.

 

[sneakytako]

^I was actually gonna make a badwolf case because that hammer was hella scummy. You did it for me so...

vote:badwolf

I chose to disregard the hammer vote, Monstrmna why do you think the hammer vote was scummy? Was it simply because he was the last to vote on Joker?

I see his vote based on Joker being uncooperative with his request to claim role, do you think this was his reasoning to hammer? Do you think it was scummy to hammer based on Joker's uncooperation? If so why?

I would feel a lot better about you if you could answer theses questions.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

The thing scummy about badwolfs hammer in my eyes is the fact that he asked for permission. There was absolutely no reason to ask and there's the fact that he demanded joker claim. Also, saying my playstyle is null scum but then saying based on my playstyle he'd go with town is contradictory.

Also, I never trust ryker cuz he will bs something. His question about what if I didn't kill anyone last night could be one of his bs stuff. Either he is town and telling the truth which wouldn't make sense as it would reveal to scum that he has a power at night or he's scum and knows I'm town and therefor by stating I cant kill at night he makes it seem as if he's trustworthy... I could be completely wrong but that was what I got from that little tidbit.

 

[Monstmrna]

^This. And also afterwords he was goading the cop into detting him. Plus everything you said.

 

[Monstmrna]

And come on... I think roleclaiming in a game like this is (no offense) kind of pointless, because at least 75% of us will claim VT. Which will prove nothing.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Also, I never trust ryker cuz he will bs something. His question about what if I didn't kill anyone last night could be one of his bs stuff. Either he is town and telling the truth which wouldn't make sense as it would reveal to scum that he has a power at night or he's scum and knows I'm town and therefor by stating I cant kill at night he makes it seem as if he's trustworthy... I could be completely wrong but that was what I got from that little tidbit.

Or I'm town and want to see what TB thought if I his first choice was town.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And come on... I think roleclaiming in a game like this is (no offense) kind of pointless, because at least 75% of us will claim VT. Which will prove nothing.

No reason not to let them. You can theoretically hit a cop or a doc with a clear and they'll never be able to give you the info. Even if it doesn't save them, we can use the info.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Facepalm did you even read why I did it? I have my reasons and I posted them..... Go read back through then talk to me.

 

[Pyra]

Toaster, talk to me about Badwolf.

I didn't forget about this; I'll answer this when I get more time.

Just wanted to post that my two scum reads are Loli and Badwolf.
I already explained why loli, i'll explain bw later

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Oh I'm going to like this.

 

[Monstmrna]

No reason not to let them. You can theoretically hit a cop or a doc with a clear and they'll never be able to give you the info. Even if it doesn't save them, we can use the info.

If we push a doc into claiming, then they're dead anyway. If the cop is gonna claim, they can claim regardless. Otherwise, it's a moot point.

 

[Pyra]

Oh I'm going to like this.

• You asked to hammer Joker. That's silly, you don't need confirmation on that. I took the fall to tell you to do it in the event that you would pin the blame on me toDay, but Joker had already pointed that out before he was lynched.
• You urged the cop to waste his night action on you. That night, the cop died. Could very well be just a coincidence, or maybe you were sure he was a cop somehow and wanted him to take his action on you so you could night kill him, leaving him unable to reveal anything.

And now you have a passive aggressive attitude somewhat. Nothing to do with the read, just thought it was funny.

 

[Pyra]

And come on... I think roleclaiming in a game like this is (no offense) kind of pointless, because at least 75% of us will claim VT. Which will prove nothing.

Indeed. And the only claims that won't be VTs would be town power roles, which make them priority targets.

But then a scum could claim town cop, for instance, and never be night killed, which would make them a bit more suspicious. But why would a scum do that when they can claim to be in the herd of VTs like most of us?

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Oh I knew I was going to love this.

• You asked to hammer Joker. That's silly, you don't need confirmation on that. I took the fall to tell you to do it in the event that you would pin the blame on me toDay, but Joker had already pointed that out before he was lynched.

• 
  
  2 things about this.
  1.) Notice how I don't have a scum read on you?
  2.) Trying to pin that on you would have been pointless and incredibly stupid. No one would have actually taken that if they were any kind of intelligent.
  
  

  
  [LIST}
  [*]You urged the cop to waste his night action on you. That night, the cop died. Could very well be just a coincidence, or maybe you were sure he was a cop somehow and wanted him to take his action on you so you could night kill him, leaving him unable to reveal anything.

And now you have a passive aggressive attitude somewhat. Nothing to do with the read, just thought it was funny.

Lol, I wanted the cop to watch me so I could dispense the idiotic reasonings that I am scum.

Hypothetically, why would I need the cop to take an action to kill him? You suggest that I knew that BSP was cop even without the first Day being over? You sound too confident of me.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Indeed. And the only claims that won't be VTs would be town power roles, which make them priority targets.

But then a scum could claim town cop, for instance, and never be night killed, which would make them a bit more suspicious. But why would a scum do that when they can claim to be in the herd of VTs like most of us?

Scum claiming a PR is stupid, CC would be way too easy.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

If scum claimed town cop the town cop would just Counter-claim.

Scum I think in all mafia games have a safe claim? Basically either an exact town role is given to them or they are made known as to which characters are not in the game and therefor can use those. Not sure what John did for this one though but the only people who don't have safe claims would be PRs.

@Ryker : I get it, good point.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

Badwolf I hate you for posting while I was typing xD

Can you reply to what Sneakytaco has said about you? Seeing as how you did have a null-scum on me but changed it to a town read and based both reasonings on play style.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Badwolf I hate you for posting while I was typing xD

Can you reply to what Sneakytaco has said about you? Seeing as how you did have a null-scum on me but changed it to a town read and based both reasonings on play style.

I figured you weren't going to change your play style if you were scum. You even won a normal game using your style. I don't think you would change that.

 

[Pyra]

Scum claiming a PR is stupid, CC would be way too easy.

It was a hypothetical brought up to point out how stupid it is.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

If we push a doc into claiming, then they're dead anyway. If the cop is gonna claim, they can claim regardless. Otherwise, it's a moot point.

Suppose the doc has a successful protect. Then he has a clear. Even if we decide he's scummy and we're going to lynch him despite his claim, that clear is still useful. Probably not in this set-up, but even who he visited on what night is important information.

This is a really basic concept. Do you still have an issue with it?

 

[Monstmrna]

Yeah, we can use the information, but that's not my point. My point is, 80% of the game is Vanilla Townie, so the claims are kind of useless. Sure, the doc can have a successful protect and sure the det can catch a scum, but claiming in this game specifically isn't really going to help us at all.

Don't treat me like I'm stupid, I'm not talking about games in general.

 

[Pyra]

Trying to pin that on you would have been pointless and incredibly stupid. No one would have actually taken that if they were any kind of intelligent.

You mean like a lot of the stuff that goes on during games like this? Just being wary is all.

Be a little less smug please.

 

[Pyra]

Hypothetically, why would I need the cop to take an action to kill him? You suggest that I knew that BSP was cop even without the first Day being over? You sound too confident of me.

That's funny.
BSP's not even in this game. Confused and smug?

The cop, JTB, lets it slip that there's a cop in the game, as seen here:

Joker is not the play today with loli on the wagon, she's admitted she's solely.voting him so she can't be called a sheep, not because he's scum. Let our cop deal with joker

Could you have not have based a "There's a cop in this game, and JTB is it!" off of the fact that the cop himself was the first person to bring up the possibility of a cop (rather sure of himself) in the game? I'm sure you could have.

Then you started taunting the cop in the game, and JTB seemed to be getting quite frustrated about it. I wonder why~

Stop being smug.

 

[John2k4]

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

Badwolf(2): SneakyTako, Monstmrna

Not Voting(5): Ryker, JDietz, ToasterBrains, LoliLovesRain, Badwolf

Deadline is: September 4th, 11:59PM MST.

 

[Pyra]

Er... I Vote: Loli already iirc.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

Er... I Vote: Loli already iirc.

mmhmm you did~

 

[sneakytako]

What Loli said about Ryker concerns me. Loli could be a PR town and may be trying to CC Ryker's tracker, watcher, w/e call out. But if Loli was scum and wanted to CC Ryker, it would make less sense since Ryker called out Loli as stayed home during the night. As scum this would be advantageous for her to keep quiet, she would have nothing to gain on disputing the call. I thought about not posting this, but at this point if she is doc then the odds of her protecting night kill is still almost the same.

I feel Loli is null now, although her play is questionable. I think her idea was to lynch one random person and try to gauge everyone's reaction based on that play. She gave up finding scum since day 1 would be the most difficult to find scum, she may have choosen to act rashly to try and re-evauluate everyone's responses during the next day.

In which case this situation would still point to Badwolf being scum, based on his hammer on a lynch based on questionable reasons; submitting a request to claim, not getting a claim from EITHER of them, then pushing his suspecion on the candidate with the most votes.

I don't understand why Badwolf would choose Joker over Loli. Even if he felt that Loli was being random, it doesn't justify him hammering Joker.

Loli: Between Badwolf and Ryker, who is more scummy to you? Is there anyone else who you consider scummy?

Badwolf: You've only answered one of my points with an arguement that references games that most of us weren't a part of. Putting how useless that is aside, please explain why you chose to continually provoke the cop into investigating you, why did you not hesitate in making the identity of the cop more clear? Did you intentionally provoke the cop to post? What advantage of knowing the cop did you weigh against exposing the cop? Also, please explain why you defended yourself with a 'prove it' defence when questioned by Loli.

JD: Do you have any reads on Ryker, Badwolf, or Loli?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

^I like this guy.

Vote Badwolf

 

[sneakytako]

Um, I'm back but I could very well be V/LA again without notice. There are storms everywhere and one's already knocked out my internet once.

So, I'm not entirely sold on the Joker nor the Loli lynch. I would probably go Joker over Loli because she's being a little bit more helpful in her new playstyle, but I would like you both to claim and I'll go from there.

Btw this is the quote I'm talking about when I say niether of them claimed. He requested Loli and Joker to both claim, while neither did he choose Joker to lynch.

And this was RIGHT after he posted that he didn't trust Loli, twice.

 

[sneakytako]

Unvote

I don't want anyone to hammer until Badwolf gives a proper rebuttal. But if I'm not satisfied I'm ready to lynch. Consider yourself L-1.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

@Sneakytaco: I find BadWolf scummier than Ryker. The only other possible scum I see would be Toaster wrt the way he acted day1 he got extremely defensive and said "just vote me loli cuz i know you want to" and Joker told him to calm down or w.e. It was completely out of left field with the defensiveness but it's a null tell really.

 

[Pyra]

Unvote

I don't want anyone to hammer until Badwolf gives a proper rebuttal. But if I'm not satisfied I'm ready to lynch. Consider yourself L-1.

Damn it, I was really close to just hammering him (everyone's cases against him check out and his arguments are lacking), but you're right. Let him defend himself with more smugness. Regardless of how silly it gets it's still pretty entertaining.

 

[Pyra]

he got extremely defensive and said "just vote me loli cuz i know you want to" and Joker told him to calm down or w.e. It was completely out of left field with the defensiveness but it's a null tell really.

I was trying to provoke you to do something and it didn't work.
I tend to exaggerate things in games like this to see how people react to it.

For instance, does anyone play Garry's Mod? Specifically, does anyone play Trouble in Terrorist Town on Garry's Mod? When I do things like this and people willingly take the bait easily, they tend to be a traitor (which is equal to Mafia's scum).

That, and I don't think anyone but you and possibly Joker thought I was scum anyway.

That being said, why should anyone think you're town if your D1 scum list was, as you said, just the first couple of people who confirmed? As far as I care, nothing you've done so far has really helped anyone but yourself.