Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
? What do you mean?
Nobody else has flipped Neighbor. Yeah, it's just us.
Nobody else has flipped Neighbor. Yeah, it's just us.
-
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Newbie 24 - SMT: Devil Survivor LAW IS VICTORIOUS #1 CHAOS LOSES AHAHAHAH
- Thread starter #HBC | ѕoup
- Start date
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Damn it. I was really hoping that you were telling the truth too.... FF you're annoying but you're right. **** me.
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
I'll post more tomorrow. G'night.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
I'm sorry what? ._.
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Are you still posting within your QT?
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
Yes, why?
Rake and I talked about the game last night on skype, we posted the logs from the skype chat in the QT.
Rake and I talked about the game last night on skype, we posted the logs from the skype chat in the QT.
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Have you posted the concensus within the thread as of now?
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
Concensus? What do you mean?
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
What were your thoughts and have you posted them or the equivalent?
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
I can paraphrase what's left if you want. We talked about how I expected the rest of the game to play out.
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Why didn't you post it? It seems pointless to me that you two are talking in privacy when you're supposedly confirmed town.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
You can't be serious. You expect me to go 'yeah, I expect Frozenflame is gonna XYZ to try to counter ABC' in thread?
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Answer my question. I'll respond tomorrow, I grow weary of today.
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Answer my question. I'll respond tomorrow, I grow weary of today.
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Answer my question. I'll respond tomorrow, I grow weary of today.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
I did answer your question. If I have private communication what possible reason do I have to post EVERY thing in thread?
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Ok, so why do you feel the need to consult Rake on that?
@Mod: Do me a favour and delete those extraneous posts. My phone is somewhat idiotic.
@Mod: Do me a favour and delete those extraneous posts. My phone is somewhat idiotic.
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Also, why, if you're so adamant about not posting it, did you offer to give a transcript?
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
I did offer, yes. Would you like them?
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Please, answer my other question.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
Because we're neighbors! Are you... like I don't even.
The entire point of neighbors/masons is to converse with your partner and talk about reads/strategy if you're confirmed to be of the same alignment.
The entire point of neighbors/masons is to converse with your partner and talk about reads/strategy if you're confirmed to be of the same alignment.
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Ok, thank you, you can disregard everything since the first question. It had a point.
Huge post.
Don't care enough to edit out Ponify-ed ****. You get to deal with that. I'm going to be doing a dry read through of everything that's been posted since my last wall. This is for my own benefit more than others. The only thing I want others to do is look for questions directed at them. This is just going to be notes really.
"This was right around the time when Ran was pushing the Xiroey case. Lynch was floating around between Rake, Xiroey and Turaz. Anyway. The important thing here is that Pawn defends Xiroey on a few flawed reasons:
1) He plays the noob card liberally. (Noted in Yellow)
2) He makes excuses for him. (Noted in Orange)
3) He passes the buck to the replacement. (Noted in red)
None of what he actually said addressed anything from the case. He did what I did for Rake, essentially, waving pressure away from the lynch without committing to things. Difference is, why would TownPawn be making excuses for Xiroey, whose alignment he doesn't know?
The defense stands out quite a bit, because he doesn't really do this sort of thing for anyone else."
Buddy-ing.
"Even MORE important here is what I highlighted in yellow. He blatantly defends Pawn in practically exactly the same manner than Pawn defended Xiroey. He again pulls the noob card and doesn't really substantiate otherwise."
I'm down with this.
"Pawn immediately reacts to that by demanding an explanation, which is out of the ordinary to react that quickly and sharply to that. It's consistent with his defense of Xiroey earlier."
Basic **** ton of buddy-ing scum mates. Down again.
"Now note his reads. Everypony is Null except his scumreads (GaGa/Kant) and Rake (Town). That leaves a LOT of backdoors."
Agree.
"I quoted THIS post because it reads SUPER forced to me."
Don't care for.
"Albeit using terribly terribly logic, which I feel no shame for."
RAKE: Care to expand on the logic?
"FF came to the same conclusion I did of course, but excludes himself."
Not surprising.
"Because Rake and I do not travel, and no other Town PR does, then ANYPONY the Voyeur actually sees has to be scum, which can catch scum in a massclaim. Town has a weak cop and two clears. The red, as a result, is false. Depending on when scum had to claim, they could end up trapped by the Voyeur claim regardless."
I had seen this as well, but not knowing the direct role of Voyeur I didn't say anything.
"A town "friendly" neighbor usually gets to pick one pony in the game to send a message to confirming that he, the friendly neighbor, is town. Once that request is sent, it's a one way transaction and though the receiver is informed that the sender is town, the sender does not get confirmation of the receivers alignment.
Another version, called the "neighborizer" can usually add one or two ponies into a "neighborhood" in which the members can chat privately about the game out of the mane thread, but DO NOT have their alignments confirmed to one another.
yeah wow, don't know how I didn't catch that earlier. Your claim is ****ing bogus hahaha"
FF: If you knew that they had claimed as Neighbors, but also knew that they were using the term wrong why do you think that they ended up doing it? They're two exp-ed players and for sure know the role names by now, why make it harder on themselves to convince people that their actual roles are masons?
”Do you honestly think that I would botch a claim on something as frivolous as the name of the role. We claimed the role name IN the CRUMBS. We claimed what it is."
Pretty much this.
"Beat myself up because I've played terribly."
Agreed. XD
"@BW: Rake/Raz is very obvious to me, seeing as I know Rake is scum and therefore the neighbors claim is bs. That means you and FF must be town."
PWN: Explain why your claim is somehow better than theirs.
" Because your plans involve somepony getting lynched, which, since you're scum, would win the game for mafia."
FUD.
"I love how I asked Badwulf to actually read my posts for understanding, and he blatantly disregarded that. Can't wait to watch you throw this game to scum Rake/Raz dude. Watching you fall for Raziek's nice stallion play is laughable. You're literally eating out of the palm of his hoof like an obedient foal. The fact that he can emotionally manipulate you this much is both astounding and pathetic. But I digress."
FUD.
"You sound like Raziek. Attack the tone, not the message. Considering Raziek hasn't made a logical counterpoint to any of my arguments this entire day phase, I can see why you're following in suit. How cute."
Don't be condescending, that's my job. I do it very well thank you.
"PLEASE THROW THE GAME HARDER, LIKE WOW"
PLEASE THROW MORE FUD, LIKE WOW
Stop pissing me off.
"The funniest part is though, is that Wolf is gonna throw the game to you, because he likes it when you talk to him nicely, give him pats on the head, and color code your posts for him. Are you sending him some chocolates too when this game ends?"
You really don't want to travel this road. Change the attitude, response is better when made by sane people.
"Listen Wolf. I know I deliver my arguments with a rough tone. I like to tell it how it is. I'm not a sugarcoater. If you need something sugarcoated, that just means you're either too dumb or too weak to handle the truth, plain and simple. Don't write me off because I sound like a jerk. I mean cmon, it's the internet for ****s sake. Seeing a couple asterisks here and there doesn't actually change the content that I'm delivering, and my analysis is THE TRUTH. IT IS BASED IN FACTS. I literally can't twist anything, because my entire case is based on REASONABLE AND RATIONAL CONCLUSIONS THAT CAN BE EASILY DRAWN FROM THE FACTS OF THE GAME THAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US."
No, you don't deliver your arguments with a rough tone, you deliver insults with a rough tone. I tell it how it is. I'm not even joking that every ****ing post in this Day has at least one shot either placed at me or at Raz. To be honest, I'm ****ing tired of it. You're annoying me and other people by assuming that you're the smartest person in the thread and going from there. It's not enough to get me started but it's surely getting on my nerves and I'm placing less weight behind your posts because of it. Either calm the **** down and deliver arguments rationally or leave.
"That's why Raziek has to fall back on emotional appeal"
FF: Example now.
"- Attempt to paint me in a negative/mean light (Fallacy: emotional appeal)
- Make my points seem weaker by altering their premises or the actual content of the argument (Fallacy: strawmanning)
- Sidestep my points altogether and shift focus to a different criteria of evaluation (Fallacy: moving the goal posts)
- Attack my tone, not my content (read: Tone Fallacy/Affective Fallacy) [And he's even convinced you, Badwulf, to do it to! He's drawing you into his fallacy ridden thinking!]"
FF: Quotes. Need them.
Btw, my meta is to attack tone. I don't care for loud people.
"The voyeur can then see two things happen: Nightkills (which is useless because seeing some get targeted with a kill is only unique info to you until the next day when they inevitably flip, since you only get the ACTION used on your target, NOT the player using the action) and the Scum PR (we can assume RBer or like framer here just for the same of example)."
THEORY: Soup, misnomer-ed all of the PR's in the game to **** with people. Therefore, FF arguing about a red herring might be grasping at straws.
Just a theory mind you.
"FF, you could stand to tone it down a bit. I understand you're frustrated, but yelling isn't helping. Clearly BW is responding to the emotional appeal, legit or not."
A beacon of sanity.
"At this point FF is confirmed town to me."
PWN: Why?
Huge post.
Don't care enough to edit out Ponify-ed ****. You get to deal with that. I'm going to be doing a dry read through of everything that's been posted since my last wall. This is for my own benefit more than others. The only thing I want others to do is look for questions directed at them. This is just going to be notes really.
"This was right around the time when Ran was pushing the Xiroey case. Lynch was floating around between Rake, Xiroey and Turaz. Anyway. The important thing here is that Pawn defends Xiroey on a few flawed reasons:
1) He plays the noob card liberally. (Noted in Yellow)
2) He makes excuses for him. (Noted in Orange)
3) He passes the buck to the replacement. (Noted in red)
None of what he actually said addressed anything from the case. He did what I did for Rake, essentially, waving pressure away from the lynch without committing to things. Difference is, why would TownPawn be making excuses for Xiroey, whose alignment he doesn't know?
The defense stands out quite a bit, because he doesn't really do this sort of thing for anyone else."
Buddy-ing.
"Even MORE important here is what I highlighted in yellow. He blatantly defends Pawn in practically exactly the same manner than Pawn defended Xiroey. He again pulls the noob card and doesn't really substantiate otherwise."
I'm down with this.
"Pawn immediately reacts to that by demanding an explanation, which is out of the ordinary to react that quickly and sharply to that. It's consistent with his defense of Xiroey earlier."
Basic **** ton of buddy-ing scum mates. Down again.
"Now note his reads. Everypony is Null except his scumreads (GaGa/Kant) and Rake (Town). That leaves a LOT of backdoors."
Agree.
"I quoted THIS post because it reads SUPER forced to me."
Don't care for.
"Albeit using terribly terribly logic, which I feel no shame for."
RAKE: Care to expand on the logic?
"FF came to the same conclusion I did of course, but excludes himself."
Not surprising.
"Because Rake and I do not travel, and no other Town PR does, then ANYPONY the Voyeur actually sees has to be scum, which can catch scum in a massclaim. Town has a weak cop and two clears. The red, as a result, is false. Depending on when scum had to claim, they could end up trapped by the Voyeur claim regardless."
I had seen this as well, but not knowing the direct role of Voyeur I didn't say anything.
"A town "friendly" neighbor usually gets to pick one pony in the game to send a message to confirming that he, the friendly neighbor, is town. Once that request is sent, it's a one way transaction and though the receiver is informed that the sender is town, the sender does not get confirmation of the receivers alignment.
Another version, called the "neighborizer" can usually add one or two ponies into a "neighborhood" in which the members can chat privately about the game out of the mane thread, but DO NOT have their alignments confirmed to one another.
yeah wow, don't know how I didn't catch that earlier. Your claim is ****ing bogus hahaha"
FF: If you knew that they had claimed as Neighbors, but also knew that they were using the term wrong why do you think that they ended up doing it? They're two exp-ed players and for sure know the role names by now, why make it harder on themselves to convince people that their actual roles are masons?
”Do you honestly think that I would botch a claim on something as frivolous as the name of the role. We claimed the role name IN the CRUMBS. We claimed what it is."
Pretty much this.
"Beat myself up because I've played terribly."
Agreed. XD
"@BW: Rake/Raz is very obvious to me, seeing as I know Rake is scum and therefore the neighbors claim is bs. That means you and FF must be town."
PWN: Explain why your claim is somehow better than theirs.
" Because your plans involve somepony getting lynched, which, since you're scum, would win the game for mafia."
FUD.
"I love how I asked Badwulf to actually read my posts for understanding, and he blatantly disregarded that. Can't wait to watch you throw this game to scum Rake/Raz dude. Watching you fall for Raziek's nice stallion play is laughable. You're literally eating out of the palm of his hoof like an obedient foal. The fact that he can emotionally manipulate you this much is both astounding and pathetic. But I digress."
FUD.
"You sound like Raziek. Attack the tone, not the message. Considering Raziek hasn't made a logical counterpoint to any of my arguments this entire day phase, I can see why you're following in suit. How cute."
Don't be condescending, that's my job. I do it very well thank you.
"PLEASE THROW THE GAME HARDER, LIKE WOW"
PLEASE THROW MORE FUD, LIKE WOW
Stop pissing me off.
"The funniest part is though, is that Wolf is gonna throw the game to you, because he likes it when you talk to him nicely, give him pats on the head, and color code your posts for him. Are you sending him some chocolates too when this game ends?"
You really don't want to travel this road. Change the attitude, response is better when made by sane people.
"Listen Wolf. I know I deliver my arguments with a rough tone. I like to tell it how it is. I'm not a sugarcoater. If you need something sugarcoated, that just means you're either too dumb or too weak to handle the truth, plain and simple. Don't write me off because I sound like a jerk. I mean cmon, it's the internet for ****s sake. Seeing a couple asterisks here and there doesn't actually change the content that I'm delivering, and my analysis is THE TRUTH. IT IS BASED IN FACTS. I literally can't twist anything, because my entire case is based on REASONABLE AND RATIONAL CONCLUSIONS THAT CAN BE EASILY DRAWN FROM THE FACTS OF THE GAME THAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US."
No, you don't deliver your arguments with a rough tone, you deliver insults with a rough tone. I tell it how it is. I'm not even joking that every ****ing post in this Day has at least one shot either placed at me or at Raz. To be honest, I'm ****ing tired of it. You're annoying me and other people by assuming that you're the smartest person in the thread and going from there. It's not enough to get me started but it's surely getting on my nerves and I'm placing less weight behind your posts because of it. Either calm the **** down and deliver arguments rationally or leave.
"That's why Raziek has to fall back on emotional appeal"
FF: Example now.
"- Attempt to paint me in a negative/mean light (Fallacy: emotional appeal)
- Make my points seem weaker by altering their premises or the actual content of the argument (Fallacy: strawmanning)
- Sidestep my points altogether and shift focus to a different criteria of evaluation (Fallacy: moving the goal posts)
- Attack my tone, not my content (read: Tone Fallacy/Affective Fallacy) [And he's even convinced you, Badwulf, to do it to! He's drawing you into his fallacy ridden thinking!]"
FF: Quotes. Need them.
Btw, my meta is to attack tone. I don't care for loud people.
"The voyeur can then see two things happen: Nightkills (which is useless because seeing some get targeted with a kill is only unique info to you until the next day when they inevitably flip, since you only get the ACTION used on your target, NOT the player using the action) and the Scum PR (we can assume RBer or like framer here just for the same of example)."
THEORY: Soup, misnomer-ed all of the PR's in the game to **** with people. Therefore, FF arguing about a red herring might be grasping at straws.
Just a theory mind you.
"FF, you could stand to tone it down a bit. I understand you're frustrated, but yelling isn't helping. Clearly BW is responding to the emotional appeal, legit or not."
A beacon of sanity.
"At this point FF is confirmed town to me."
PWN: Why?
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Now, I am going to bed. It's been an hour since I said I would.
G'night and good luck.
G'night and good luck.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
Man, you're fraying my nerves, Badwolf. You had me really worried there.
Shun Goku Satsu Rake
Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
- Joined
- May 8, 2012
- Messages
- 3,897
My stated terrible logic on clearing you is that you were here and posting during the nightPhase in other threads.
If you had sent in the kill, the game would have started earlier. That clears you of being the killer.
What clears you of being the partner is the fact that I've been townreading you all game, and the fact that all toDay, you've been fine-tooth combing the hell out of everything, to come to your eventual decision. Scum doesn't need to waste time that way in MyLo. Plus, by virtue of me knowing Pawn is BS'ing this guilty on me, his innocent on FF is clearly faked as well.
Even to think about it logically from MYPOV on even the slightest possibility of Wuldscum : Pawn claims to have a guilty on me , but as Raz-bro pointed out, that investigation order doesn't even make sense in the context of the thread, to add to this FF comes in and INSTANTLY believes Pawn, 0 questions asked, as the cop. He chooses to go straight to bat for Pawn, and believe these "results" , and just so happens to write up an entire set up analysis case on why Pawn's claim makes so much more sense than ours. I don't believe for one second that a truly town-aligned FF(which we know is not the case here, but I digress), wouldn't even think to question the claimed cop about his choices, nor step instantly into the octagon, to lay out why Pawn's claim is so much more believable, and therefore true, in comparison to me/Raz. For all a truly town aligned FF knows, Pawn and Badwulf are the scum team, and are faking an inno to gain his trust and watch win the game for them, only needing one more lynch to win. But yet, as is evident in the thread, FF instantaneously believes Pawn, and his results and jumps straight onto the attack against me and Raz, differing to BW as the PoE town in this case. In this case, this is what FFscum needs to do. He knows by virtue of being scum, that me/Raz are legit in our claim, his only option is to fully back Pawn's "results" and try to push me/Raz through, as fake-claiming scum, because he knows that once Pawn has faked these "results" me and Raz will know 100% Pawn is scum and would never lynch outside of Pawn today(even though as I keep repeating, he is proven a liar either way(Pawn), just more circularly with an FF lynch) as is the case here. His only option as Pawn's partner, is to push us, because as I just said, he knows me/Raz would not vote anyone but Pawn in this situation because we know for a fact he is lying, so he is forced to try to push our lynch through.
If you had sent in the kill, the game would have started earlier. That clears you of being the killer.
What clears you of being the partner is the fact that I've been townreading you all game, and the fact that all toDay, you've been fine-tooth combing the hell out of everything, to come to your eventual decision. Scum doesn't need to waste time that way in MyLo. Plus, by virtue of me knowing Pawn is BS'ing this guilty on me, his innocent on FF is clearly faked as well.
Even to think about it logically from MYPOV on even the slightest possibility of Wuldscum : Pawn claims to have a guilty on me , but as Raz-bro pointed out, that investigation order doesn't even make sense in the context of the thread, to add to this FF comes in and INSTANTLY believes Pawn, 0 questions asked, as the cop. He chooses to go straight to bat for Pawn, and believe these "results" , and just so happens to write up an entire set up analysis case on why Pawn's claim makes so much more sense than ours. I don't believe for one second that a truly town-aligned FF(which we know is not the case here, but I digress), wouldn't even think to question the claimed cop about his choices, nor step instantly into the octagon, to lay out why Pawn's claim is so much more believable, and therefore true, in comparison to me/Raz. For all a truly town aligned FF knows, Pawn and Badwulf are the scum team, and are faking an inno to gain his trust and watch win the game for them, only needing one more lynch to win. But yet, as is evident in the thread, FF instantaneously believes Pawn, and his results and jumps straight onto the attack against me and Raz, differing to BW as the PoE town in this case. In this case, this is what FFscum needs to do. He knows by virtue of being scum, that me/Raz are legit in our claim, his only option is to fully back Pawn's "results" and try to push me/Raz through, as fake-claiming scum, because he knows that once Pawn has faked these "results" me and Raz will know 100% Pawn is scum and would never lynch outside of Pawn today(even though as I keep repeating, he is proven a liar either way(Pawn), just more circularly with an FF lynch) as is the case here. His only option as Pawn's partner, is to push us, because as I just said, he knows me/Raz would not vote anyone but Pawn in this situation because we know for a fact he is lying, so he is forced to try to push our lynch through.
Shun Goku Satsu Rake
Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
- Joined
- May 8, 2012
- Messages
- 3,897
If it weren't obvious, only the first one of those is terrible logic.
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Considering that neither I nor Pwn can post much during this week, I suggest someone actually doing something.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
Then I'll put action to what I've been saying all week.
vote: Pawndidater2
vote: Pawndidater2
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
FML I really want people to respond to my questions before I do anything more.
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Someone's viewing.
Shun Goku Satsu Rake
Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
- Joined
- May 8, 2012
- Messages
- 3,897
Dat's me. Or rather, was me. Was catching up, thought things were happening, turned out to be nothing much.
Testing my new computer, as well
Testing my new computer, as well
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
I'm feeling the need for a Pwn lynch.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
Then let's get this over with, Rake and I are obviously willing,
Call is yours to make.
Call is yours to make.
Shun Goku Satsu Rake
Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
- Joined
- May 8, 2012
- Messages
- 3,897
I'm ready to lay swift justice upon those who would dare threaten town, if you are Wulf.
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
Those who are scared of the leap shouldn't be on the cliff.
Let's do this.
Vote: Pwn
Let's do this.
Vote: Pwn
Shun Goku Satsu Rake
Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
- Joined
- May 8, 2012
- Messages
- 3,897
Vote: Pawndidater2
#HBC | BadWolf
Crusader of Ponies
So just tell me now if you're actually scum. Not like it matters if you are.
I want to know if I ****ed up.
I want to know if I ****ed up.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
Finally, holy freaking god damn.
We are in fact Town, if that wasn't obvious enough by Frozenflame's shameful display.
We are in fact Town, if that wasn't obvious enough by Frozenflame's shameful display.
Shun Goku Satsu Rake
Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
- Joined
- May 8, 2012
- Messages
- 3,897
No, me and Raz are neighbours bro