Newbie 23 // MGS3 Villains Mafia - Game Over

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Will post reasons later today. Sorry I've been watching ponies a **** ton of AP work. I'll do a long post around 2 and a longer one sometime after 7ish.

:rainbowdash:

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. But I think I've made my motives clear: I want to win. How do we do that? Lynch the right person. I still have a bad taste in my mouth after my last game, and I don't want that to happen again. I wasn't convinced at all about STEM yesterDay, and I feel like I could've turned that around if he hadn't thrown in the towel.

ToDay, I still don't have any clear reads. I have my reasons for partially trusting Badwolf, but that's about it. That's why I've been rather quiet. I'm waiting for someone to slip up. That being said, I won't let this day end without a lynch. I'm considering other potential lynch targets besides Vinyl, but like I said: I want to get this right. I'll take all the time in the world to get this right.

Soup, you've been tossing votes around. Who do you think is the most viable lynch target as of now?

Understandable, so you're playing more careful? I don't think that should be a reason to hinder your posting and thought processes, and definitely not a good mindset. Lay down all your reads from me.

I want Vinyl. today as a serious matter, and I voted him because although the wagon formed on him isn't that great, it will provide good information and a possible scumflip.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm down for a Vinyl lynch as well.

 

[Vinylic.]

Well, we can end the day today if ya want. I already claimed and etc.

Did I already say the outcome after this? Badwolf still hasn't responded to the question due to his busyness. I don't particularly have an evaluation for this guy, but I still have a scum-lean for the vote. You can provide information on me, but you're not gonna see a scum flip here when D2 ends. Just Saiyan.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

[COLLAPSE="Vinyl stuff"]

Vote: Ran
Unvote
Vote: Rag
Unvote
Vote: Tyran

Unvote

Vote: loli

Serious RVS right now.

This I hate. Trolling is really annoying and I can see that's it's RVS, but still I am annoyed by it.

Unvote
Vote: Ttar

L-1

This is one of the big things that I don't like about Vinyl right now. This coupled with the fact that he sheeped the wagon on STEM is really bad. I don't like it.

Unvote

Because .

Don't have enough time today for this, So I will get my act straight later.

Again, RVS, but I still don't like it

Well, since D1 RVS, I took the time to start doing a rather different way and flat out vote from one to another. You can see by the look of my response to Ran that I'll get my acts straight later.

Same with you, sonny.

Gonna get them by time there's enough for summarizing each.

You still haven't given a decent list of reads with summaries for each. And [as Soup said] you've had a null-scum on me for the entire game. Explain.

Town leans - Ran, Soup, BSP
Null - Loli, Ttar, STEM, Monstrama
Scum-lean - Badwolf

Am I missing anyone else?

Yes, you are forgetting the explanations.

Monstrama going down to my scum-lean read.

WHY? EXPLAIN YOUR READS.

STEM (5); Badwolf28738, Ranmaru, Ragnarock, BSP, Vinyl.

This is the biggest point in my case, he sheeped on STEM and lynched him. Considering that I wasn't even around to take my vote off I was more than pissed about my RVS being in a lynch wagon.

YesterDay felt way too rushed. We had a couple more days to figure out the lynch and the fact that I was still on the wagon when it had happened couldn't piss me off more. I didn't want such a fast lynch and, if I had been given the chance, I would have taken my vote off of STEM. I really don't like where the wagonners were going and I'm going to take a look into each of their votes and intentions.

This is explaining one of the reasons I voted Vinyl. I wanted to see how he reacted to it, however, I didn't want to see him lynched so I jumped off the L-1 wagon before it could come to a lynch. I don't want to see this Day end sooner rather than later.

I'm out of scumpicks, but I give a list from more townie to less.

Soup

Ran/Ttar

Badwolf/monstrama/loli

Gorfdammit. Explain your freaking reads.

The way you scumhunt is good, but it looked a tad simplistic. Same on how you gave the reasons I was scummy/a lynch choice.

This is a decent explanation. Give more.

Just another mislynch.

Pretty sorry I can be in touch much for today. :/
I claim: I'm The PAIN, Vanilla Villain.

Also, I want to question why Badwolf voted while being the guy with the least posts toDay.

Then question me. I can't read minds (yet).

I'm still at L-1. If flip town, then I do believe there's two things:

Badwolf has sheeped as you can see all of his lack of posts on D2.
Ran possibly trying to make his case, not simply, but somehow early.
Acrostic puts me on the bad light after answering my questions with her own Qs as well.


I don't think ran did a case on me yet after I asked him. I'm curious to know why. Of course, I already think I know why, but I wanna see his if possible.

Bolded: Pffftttt. Right. I sheeped the one person who had a vote on you. Of course Loli wouldn't have been easier to lynch right now.

Well, bw for one.

There's one case that ends D1. Seeing how you played before, you would seem to know how people play and determine town, even if they made a scummy play.

As of now, you're being more direct on things, going for the weak and etc where you find them scummy. If I were to say that you did the loli case for reaction, would you agree or no? Soup said he only voted loli for no reason after you made that case, and then decided to go for monstrama.

A pressure vote more likely.

Slightly right with this. I'll explain further down.

Scum-lean right about now.

Well, we can end the day today if ya want. I already claimed and etc.

Did I already say the outcome after this? Badwolf still hasn't responded to the question due to his busyness. I don't particularly have an evaluation for this guy, but I still have a scum-lean for the vote. You can provide information on me, but you're not gonna see a scum flip here when D2 ends. Just Saiyan.

He's spreading distrust and stuff but whatever. [/collapse]

Remember that chat I had with you in [redacted]? Show me some confidence.

That was directed at Loli... I was joking around when she threw her RVS on me.


Ok reasonings.

1.) I wanted Vinyl to feel some more heat from votes. He only had one on him at the point that I had voted for him and at that point he was
a. Scummy enough.
b. The last person on the STEM wagon.

2.) I wasn't expecting people to jump with me, but now that they have, I really want to look into them as well. Prolonging this will do some more good.

3.) He was a scum pick.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

The previous post was a deadline extension request to Tuesday @ 7pm as per my replacement in the game. Wagon pressure on Vinyl. was odd and coincided with me replacing in. I don't have a strong stance on his play since his justifications for his actions are always lacking and when he outs reasons for his reads it's like he's filling in an ad lib work sheet. When it comes down to it, Vinyl. doesn't have a good sense of establishing reasoning structure, but this tends to be his short fall more of him as a player than really as a specific slot in this game.

To refute a couple of Badwolf's points, first and foremost Vinyl. didn't hammer STEM. STEM ended up hammering himself which is unfortunate as it would have really made Ranmaru an easier read for me to see if his push on him making a contradiction was an opportunistic push or a genuine fos based on how he would react or wouldn't react on STEM's L-1. STEM was a player in the game, he contradicted himself, he was pushed and lynched. Even if Vinyl. did hammer on STEM, then I don't see how this necessitates he is scum. Town make mistakes and hammer other townies, now if you have a problem with how Vinyl. reacted when he hammered STEM then that's a different matter entirely. We shouldn't be looking at what went wrong, but for motives which ties into my critique of your comment regarding Vinyl.'s trolling.

Yes, Vinyl. did "troll" early game by random voting. However you have to weigh whether mafia would or would not troll during RVS phase and if there is anything to be gained by it. In addition, Vinyl. is not the only one who can be considered to have "trolled" RVS as Monstr. blatantly behaved in an anti-town manner by OMGUSing Tyr. Vinyl. said he had no reasons behind his actions whereas Monst. said something along the lines that he does it every game.

Personally, I find it rare for two scummates to make a conscientious decision to play the game in a similar playstyle, much less RVS of the same game. Even if they did, I highly doubt both of them would both make a conscientious decision to "troll." I don't know if it extends to you, but when I see my partner drawing a lot of attention and making a giant idiot of himself I normally don't have similar inclinations to join with him.

Vinyl. again said that he had no reasoning behind his actions. For me, that reads to me as being a townier statement than someone who tries to attach false significance to something stupid they may have done during RVS. Rag can tell you that I got instant scum lynched for doing it in U'Trick'd by trying to bs a town read on him with RVS reasoning.

Not to demerit your case, I mean you appear to be trying, but I don't buy it. If anything Vinyl. is getting lynched because none of us know what to make of him and he's a liability in 5-way if he is town. The absolute worst would be a 5-way lylo with Monst. tunneling Vinyl. and persisting with his own half baked logic on what constitutes genuinely scummy play. I also am genuinely afraid of a 5-way where I'm dead and both ICs are mafia, given how much dialogue and pacing from D1 was dominated by them and I'm not really sure about Ranmaru, especially with what I feel is a slightly more hands off approach with using today's mislynch after his active end day interacting with STEM on D-1.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Monstr. / Ranmaru would be my personal preference for being on the lynching block today. As for why I think that my reasons are as follows

 

[ranmaru]

Vinyl was trolling because he didn't know how to emulate town scumhunting. When he is town he would naturally be asking people questions and being obvtown. I don't see how your point of how he'd play RVS along with a scummate would make sense. Loli (your predecessor) never posted so there would be no cohesion there anyways. Also keep in mind after his 'troll' votes he also voted your slot.

I also don't like that you see Badwolf trying yet you say you don't buy it, but you don't really show why he would. Your points don't convince me.

Vote: Vinyl

I also don't think we'll need a deadline extension. I don't see why you waited so long to give reads. I think your catch up didn't help at all and was very vague in showing your thought process. I am interested to see why you feel Monstrmna and I are scum.

Also, gonna go into Lylo/Mylo/End-game talk now. Feel free to talk about this and ask questions before deadline.

 

[ranmaru]

Let me talk about Lylo/Mylo/Endgame.

Lylo = Lynch or Lose
Mylo = Mislynch and Lose

Lylo is a game state (as opposed to RVS) where town must lynch correctly to win. Meaning, this is your last chance to lynch scum! You may have wasted lynches on easy targets at first, and now you have to play more carefully and put in that WORK to really find the scum and win for town. So how do you know that you are in LyLo? Just count how much more townies you think there are than scum. In this setup, it would be 7:2. So, if it's 3:2, you are in LyLo. 7:2 = 7 Townies to 2 Scum or 7 T:2 S. Get it? Just make sure to crunch the numbers on D3-D4 and hope there are more than two townies. Just keep in mind that Mafia kill one townie per night, and one townie (possibly) can be lynched per day. I just look at the worst case scenario and work from there.

Now then. Mafia may try to coordinate strategies to wrap up the game for scum. If there are 5 players left, and no scum dead yet, they may be planning to Alpha Strike! Basically, if a townie stupidly leaves their vote out during this day, the mafia can coordinate a double vote combo, which would endgame the town! Do NOT let this happen. So what do you do?

Make sure you make note of what gamestate you are in during that day phase. If it's Lylo, DON'T VOTE UNLESS YOU ARE SURE THAT PERSON IS SCUM. I like to just drop FOS's on my suspects during these days, to show that I'm serious even though it's not as good as a vote.

Want an example of dumb town play that loses the game for town? Here:

Mafia Newbie 10:
#635
#638
#639

This time, you can read further now that you may understand the premise of Mafia a bit more. One more thing, don't 100% rely on confirming people for 'not voting', usually mafia would quick alpha strike whenever they could, but at times Mafia might not get to it, and might be cleared due to other townies being a bit over - eager and would get 'confirmed' as scum when being town. I say this because this happened to a newbie game I played on Mafia scum. Read this for an example:

Newbie #1083

People say that if you are in MYLO, that you should no lynch to give the town an extra night to find scum/an innocent to narrow it down by one person.

Soup, please give thoughts on this soon.

 

[ranmaru]

I want to step down from my accusation about you 'not buying' Badwolf's case. I thought you were saying you didn't buy his play, as if you thought he was scum. I still am not convinced as to why you don't buy it though.

Not to demerit your case, I mean you appear to be trying, but I don't buy it. If anything Vinyl. is getting lynched because none of us know what to make of him and he's a liability in 5-way if he is town.

Underlined, that is not true. We do know what to make of him, yet you seemed very reluctant of reading Vinyl as scum from the very start. I think you are trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, and act as if we would just lynch TownVinyl because he is a liability? That's a bunch of bull, because I sure as hell would not lynch a TownVinyl. Check Newbie 17 where I had a strong town read on him, and got lynched for protecting my town read. Guess what, he rode out to lylo as the Town Doc, so it was not for nothing. I wouldn't just lynch Vinyl if I thought he was town, I think he is scum and Soup agrees.

It's time to end Vinyl. Also notice how Vinyl tries to use Badwolf's activity as an excuse to call him scum, even though Badwolf DID deliver his case. That is scummy coming from Vinyl.

 

[ranmaru]

Well, we can end the day today if ya want. I already claimed and etc.

Did I already say the outcome after this? Badwolf still hasn't responded to the question due to his busyness. I don't particularly have an evaluation for this guy, but I still have a scum-lean for the vote. You can provide information on me, but you're not gonna see a scum flip here when D2 ends. Just Saiyan.

Here is something important to note: Look at Vinyl's reaction to being the lynch toDay. He is trying to act calm like he doesn't care about being lynched, so we can be appeased with his 'indifferent' attitude and move to his choice.

If you are town you have to show that you CANNOT be lynched because you are town and that [proving your innocence with your words], so the lynch can be used on possible scum. You are the only person who knows your own alignment, so letting yourself get lynched is AGAINST YOUR WIN CONDITION!

Town shouldn't just go "ok sure go ahead and kill me if you want I don't mind". That is NOT a townie mindset. This reaction from Vinyl is off.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Monstr. / Ranmaru

I hope you're town because this is my list also if Vinyl. doesn't flip scum. Something about Ranmaru is off for sure. Talk to me more about it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

The instance of Vinyl. trolling in RVS is pointless all together, but the actions isn't what exactly bothers me, it's the fact that he does a ton of anti-town and useless things and then just plays it off as trolling. His reasoning isn't really that great either.

Well, since D1 RVS, I took the time to start doing a rather different way and flat out vote from one to another. You can see by the look of my response to Ran that I'll get my acts straight later.

Dislike. The problem here is deciding whether Vinyl. was being genuine or just felt like doing that.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I have a clear idea of what to do if Vinyl. flips scum, but if he doesn't then I'll have to think about it. I think this is right choice today and considering the activity and players posting, I wouldn't mind a hammer.

 

[Vinylic.]

Here is something important to note: Look at Vinyl's reaction to being the lynch toDay. He is trying to act calm like he doesn't care about being lynched, so we can be appeased with his 'indifferent' attitude and move to his choice.

If you are town you have to show that you CANNOT be lynched because you are town and that [proving your innocence with your words], so the lynch can be used on possible scum. You are the only person who knows your own alignment, so letting yourself get lynched is AGAINST YOUR WIN CONDITION!

Town shouldn't just go "ok sure go ahead and kill me if you want I don't mind". That is NOT a townie mindset. This reaction from Vinyl is off.

Someone needs (or has) to take a closer look at ran if this lynch happens. Everything he has just stated just seems weird for me after a second glimpse.

Rag, are there any more questions left before you go ahead with the hammer?

 

[Vinylic.]

I know I'm not being descriptive about it, but if you were to read ran's evaluations and cases, what would you get from it and how would you feel after?

 

[Vinylic.]

And for god's sake, that was a pressure vote on BW.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Why is Vinyl. just now jumping on Ranmaru once me and acrostic stated possible suspicsion

 

[Monstmrna]

Just for clarity's sake, Acrostic, I'm not tunneling anyone. Vinyl just happens to be my -biggest- suspicion.

 

[Monstmrna]

And vinyl... I have a question... what do you think of Ttar?

 

[X1-12]

/ VOTECOUNT 2-6

Acrostic (0);
TyranitarPhantom (0);
BadWolf28738 (1); Vinyl.
Monstmrna (0);
Vinyl. (3); Monstmrna, Ragnarock, Ranmaru
Ranmaru (0);
Ragnarock (0);

Not Voting (3); Acrostic, Badwolf28738, TyranitarPhantom

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch!
Deadline is Sunday, September 16th, at 7PM EST.

..................................................

TyranitarPhantom receives a prod as he has not posted within the past 48 hours!

 

[ranmaru]

Where is this dude at.

 

[Tyranitarphantom]

Ever heard of this thing called work? Or a social life? This game is going slow anyways.

I'd also be interested to see what Vinyl thinks of me (bet it won't be positive though).

 

[ranmaru]

Quit life.

Kidding. Ready for the Alley Oop, Ttar? (Since it's almost deadline)

 

[ranmaru]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. But I think I've made my motives clear: I want to win. How do we do that? Lynch the right person. I still have a bad taste in my mouth after my last game, and I don't want that to happen again. I wasn't convinced at all about STEM yesterDay, and I feel like I could've turned that around if he hadn't thrown in the towel.

ToDay, I still don't have any clear reads. I have my reasons for partially trusting Badwolf, but that's about it. That's why I've been rather quiet. I'm waiting for someone to slip up. That being said, I won't let this day end without a lynch. I'm considering other potential lynch targets besides Vinyl, but like I said: I want to get this right. I'll take all the time in the world to get this right.

Soup, you've been tossing votes around. Who do you think is the most viable lynch target as of now?

What I am noticing from Ttar is he is being very... un-involved. Like "Knock knock, coming to play the game or what?" kind of vibe. I don't know if he's stalling or just not as interested in the game as others.

I mean he couldn't even stay long enough to converse with me. I also notice him throwing out questions to me and Soup, yet they don't really... help find scum or do much. Like "Do you think this lynch is viable" or "What other targets do you think are viable" and doesn't really follow up with it, or do anything with it at all. Come on what the heck are you doing. I don't see what he is waiting for now.

God this game is so slow.

 

[ranmaru]

Mod: Can we shorten Twilight?

 

[Vinylic.]

How I think of him now? Null.

 

[Tyranitarphantom]

How about others?

 

[Vinylic.]

How I think of ran now? Slight Reach feel, which I don't find okay.

Do I have to evaluate? Maybe, but I think I've given enough reason from the past pages after he asked why.
Did I just jump to another personal suspicion? Jump the what, after it was made as a pressure vote? Nah.

 

[ranmaru]

Ttar, answer my question.

 

[Vinylic.]

I don't know why this day hasn't ended yet, but I'm actually glad Ttar unvoted me to be sure.

I like that a lot.

 

[ranmaru]

Yet he is still null to you?

 

[Vinylic.]

Soup, leak out some possible information you'll get from my lynch, please.

And ran, yes.

 

[ranmaru]

Opinion on Acrostic?

Ttar, are you satisfied? When will you vote (hammer) Vinyl?

 

[Vinylic.]

Unvote

Acrostic is putting out thoughts, and a lot of it. He may be good after all to provide info that could increase the chances of finding scum.

 

[Vinylic.]

And I'm not scum.

 

[Tyranitarphantom]

Anyone else you have suspicions of, Vinyl?

Ran, I'll end it after Vinyl answers this last question. No matter what he flips, this could be useful.

 

[Monstmrna]

How I think of him now? Null.

This is really not what I was expecting, to be honest, but after seeing it I'm not sure I really could have expected you to say anything else. It almost feels like you are only reading into badwolf, and aren't paying attention to anyone else in the game...

 

[Vinylic.]

Anyone else you have suspicions of, Vinyl?

There's monstrama for one.

This one doesn't have suspicion, but look at soup. He's a tough cookie in here if you look at his playstyle and being a strong town read. Best not to forget about him, but at least keep it for low priority for now.

So, is this it.