Newbie 23 // MGS3 Villains Mafia - Game Over

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I legitimately don't know where you think this push can go. The votes on the wagon itself are more or less placed for insubstantial reasons by monstr, Tyr, and Bad. This makes it incredibly hard to produce reads from Vinyl. at L-1 since there is no substance that he can actually address or defend himself against. The people who should be questioning Vinyl. should be the aforementioned three people. As for Vinyl.'s responses, they are incredibly dry and hard to interpret for information, but I can't blame Vinyl. since the questions themselves are just incredibly dry and impossible to read into for extra information.

Your point about the insubstantial pushes and reads is accurate, but I don't think you're looking at the pace of a Newbie. I find Tyranitar's reasoning more dry than others, being that Ttar stated an old reason and crumbled it together with a new one, this doesn't sit right with me and even from a perspective of a newbie to recall that situation and try to justify the push for old reasoning is irksome. I have no clue what Badwolf is doing or his reasoning, and I don't expect him to change either. I'm honestly glad you joined this game, I like playing with you and I feel that you'll be a good addition to this town, however, if your consistency with complaining about issues instead of dealing with them continues, we're going to have a problem. Your statement about there being no substance or nothing to really respond to is what I'm talking about, Vinyl. has gotten something to work with and it's really up to him to fight his own battles here, I understand your concerns but I'm bothered by them for the last reasoning mentioned. The wagon on Vinyl. right now doesn't look very good either if we're going to talk about that also. The vote from Monstrmrna was completely random and for him to show up, be insulted about getting pressure then do nothing for the past two days and vote a player who has been under the collar, is nasty. I've stated my opinion on the other two.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm not sure about the likability of Vinyl. being scum, his early play was atrocious and his reasoning was just as well, I find myself considering hammering him if things don't shape up, while still thinking about other things. I want you to clarify how you feel about Ranmaru also, and even if you want a read on me too.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

There's some things that I want clarified. Tyr if I'm not mistaken, it seems like you were fossing both Ragnarok and Ranmaru. However, you instead opted to vote Vinyl. I'm curious what exactly do you think the relationship is between the two ICs and why you opted to go for Vinyl.

Monstr. why are you so caught up on RVS. If I'm not mistaken Vinyl. put Tyr. at L-1 during the most spontaneous phase of the game. I know you said you're chalking things up to gut, but does that mean you're making yourself unapproachable to rationality?

Vinyl. why did you ask Ranmaru if he reaction tested Loli? I feel that the question was extremely out of place given all the possible responses for someone on the lynch table.

Badwolf you mentioned in #299 that you have a fos on Ran and Soup. However I'm also curious as to why you are decided to sheep ride on Vinyl. along with Tyr.

 

[ranmaru]

It's a given that some of our content would be IC posts, but not all of them. In the very beginning, I had TWO IC posts, and then a content post. So really, you have no reason to ignore my posts. At some times Soup and Me would chime in on things, yet I don't think we really stuck to our IC hats in between.

It's true the wagon isn't as substantial, yet I think soup and I covered that, him asking the whole wagon to explain why they suspect Vinyl, and me asking Bad why he voted Vinyl. Also, I think Soup and I agree that the newbs can just learn by example. I would rather play and just let the newbs see that's the way they should play. (If a newb does something dumb, we'll say that they shouldn't do that, etc) I'm just going to assume the flow doesn't work for your playstyle, and I disagree that it's a bad flow. I'll leave it at that, because the flow is already created.

Also, I see you being concerned about how the wagon is formed, but what exactly is your opinion on Vinyl?

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Asking me to reveal my hands while my cards are still in play is extremely rude.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Ranmaru I don't know what your deal is, but the wagon on Vinyl. is incredibly more fascinating than Vinyl. himself. I'll give you that as a freebie.

 

[ranmaru]

I expected you to have some opinion on vinyl from earlier, and usually I would think you are a person who gets reads from analysis more than interaction. I'll wait for your questions to be answered so you can get back at me.

 

[Monstmrna]

Monstr. why are you so caught up on RVS. If I'm not mistaken Vinyl. put Tyr. at L-1 during the most spontaneous phase of the game. I know you said you're chalking things up to gut, but does that mean you're making yourself unapproachable to rationality?

Of course not, that's only half of my case.

 

[Monstmrna]

Also: I'm getting really tired of people on this site accusing me of being incapable of rational thought just because I incorporate gut feelings into my reads. Just because I use feelings doesn't mean I don't use logic as well >_>

 

[#HBC | Kary]

/ VOTECOUNT 2-4

Acrostic (0);
TyranitarPhantom (0);
BadWolf28738 (0);
Monstmrna (1); Ranmaru
Vinyl. (3); Monstmrna, Badwolf28738, TyranitarPhantom
Ranmaru (0);
Ragnarock (0);

Not Voting (3); Acrostic, Vinyl., Ragnarock

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch!
Deadline is Sunday, September 16th, at 7PM EST.

..................................................

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

What the hell are you people doing forming a wagon around my vote? I didn't want Vinyl at L-1 just yet...
Unvote

 

[Vinylic.]

Uh..............

 

[Vinylic.]

This doesn't sound like a 'null' read. Why do you think he put you in a 'bad light'?

That would only be a predicament if I was lynched. The bad light only meant if she only asked questions for suspicion and nothing else after I do get lynched.

 

[Vinylic.]

Ran when I looked at your past case on STEM, I told you that it was simplistic. That's direct.

The fact that the day only ended a bit early was how you made your case and how others reacted, even though the case is legit.

 

[Vinylic.]

Vinyl. why did you ask Ranmaru if he reaction tested Loli? I feel that the question was extremely out of place given all the possible responses for someone on the lynch table.

Just a curiosity. He votes loli and explains why, when he hasn't really looked into loli as of yet until soup voted and I mentioned why he voted loli.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Monstr's reaction to Tyranitar's fos is over the top. Don't like it.
Tyr addresses that she won't read into Monstr's reaction, despite acknowledging that on the surface level it is anti-town. Don't see the point of bringing this up. Dumb.
Monstr. explains it was a joke.
Tyr gets defensive when BSP foses him and claims that he's scum for jumping on him. Gets defensive and then begins to patronize BSP with meta and explains how such behavior led to a mafia win in another game. I like this, "Anyone could have swopped in and hammered me. that would not be good for the villains (town)."
Vinyl. admits to just be messing around during RVS. Both Monstr|Vinyl. trolling RVS. Hmm.
Tyr blatantly tries to initiate scumhunting by asking other people to scumhunt for him. lol.
Rag posts his reads: BW town, BSP town, Vinyl. town lean. Don't understand where these reads are coming from or why he feels obligated to out them.
Tyr asks everyone to unvote to prepare for the ceremonious ending of RVS.
Ran explains that Rag should have kept on pushing Bad. I don't really know how much you further you could delve into a misunderstanding.
Monstr foses Vinyl. for L-1 vote and therefore mafia. Bad play notice.
Rag says Bad isn't trying to force town tells and therefore town. Meta notice.
Monstr has Ranmaru Rag Soup Ttar BSP town. Activity notice.
Ranmaru makes statement about scum reads being explicitly important.
Ranmaru caters to BSP being town.
Monstr carefully notes that STEM is being careful.
Ranmaru catches a discrepancy from STEM and revs up the bandwagon mobile.
Vinyl. says Ran Soup BSP are town. Loli Tyr Stem Monstr are null. Badwolf is scum.
Monstr says that he has no suspicion of STEM or Vinyl. but is just voting them because his stomach told him to do it.
Tyr pops in and says that he hopes the night is eventful.
Tyr has Ran Soup BSP Stem town. Vinyl Monstr Stem mafia.
Vinyl. is irritated. Ranmaru irritated him. No way.
Bad is going to start playing mafia.
Vinyl. asks for Ran to make a case.
Vinyl. has Soup as town. Ran Tyr as null. Bad monstr loli as mafia.
Tyr. has Bad town. Vinyl mafia.
Badwolf says Soup is mafia. Meta.
Monstr now wants to lynch Vinyl. because he actually thinks he is mafia.
I replaced in.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Soup = Rag btw. if I missed that.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Rag. can you explain to me how Vinyl.'s reasoning was worse than anyone else's rationale during game start/RVS.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Unnecessary 'trolling' in early game, but Ttar's reaction to be putting to L-1 at that moment is worse.

 

[Monstmrna]

The vote from Monstrmrna was completely random and for him to show up, be insulted about getting pressure then do nothing for the past two days and vote a player who has been under the collar, is nasty. I've stated my opinion on the other two.

1: my vote is perfectly valid. Sorry if my reasons aren't -good- enough for you. And yes, I was insulted about getting pressured because I said my case wasn't ready and you guys jumped on me for it. I think I have a right.

2: I have done nothing the past two days because there is nothing to do. How is it my fault that I already have my case out there and no one has been asking any questions or providing any discussion as to who else could be mafia? I put my suspicion out there, it's not my job to get you guys to put yours out there. Don't make it one.

3. Read one and two again, because I haven't enforced those points enough obviously.

 

[Vinylic.]

There's something to do, like asking questions and providing discussion yourself.

And we do have to ask of necessary.

 

[Vinylic.]

I think this is good enough.

Vote: Badwolf for lack of activity/response toDay and uncalled voting.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Vote: Vi nyl.

 

[Tyranitarphantom]

I wouldn't say Badwolf's vote was uncalled for, but I would like to hear reasons from his mouth.

Unvote until I hear what he has to say.

Same for you, Soup

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah baddy explain yo **** *****.

Acrostic, any reads yet dawg? I'm sure you should have something by now.

Vinyl, why did you feel like placing a vote now? That seems out of place.

 

[Vinylic.]

A pressure vote more likely.

 

[ranmaru]

But why did you vote him NOW instead of way earlier when he did the action? You see what I mean? Why the delayed reaction/pressure vote?

 

[Vinylic.]

I had other games that was active since this was the least, not to mention I asked him why and then #371.

 

[ranmaru]

What's your read on Badwolf?

 

[Vinylic.]

Scum-lean right about now.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Unnecessary 'trolling' in early game, but Ttar's reaction to be putting to L-1 at that moment is worse.

I actually like Tyr's reaction to BSP's pressure in #70. He was at L-1, but he had this whole, "come at me" vibe:

Because I want to win. Having random votes stacked on me (by people who are probably my allies) is not the way to do it.

Remember the wagon against you in the last game? Remember how dangerously close you were to getting lynched for no reason? Remember how we mislynched twice because of that?

Let's not have that happen again.

I personally don't think Tyr forced this post because his jimmies were rustled a couple minutes prior as he was being put at L-2. Therefore I'm speculating that he was somewhat agitated while he wrote this. I'd prefer not to speculate, however we don't have that luxury at the moment with most of the newbies away from the game.

I'm not sure of how to interpret his reaction to the L-2 pressure nor his actions afterwards which involve letting BSP go for "reaction testing" and Vinyl. for "trolling". I felt that Tyr had a great opportunity to look into both slots and stagnated the game by not looking into either slot. Tyr did ask for BSP's rationale while BSP was voting him that didn't go addressed and he didn't bother looking into and assigned him a town read.

Now this transition bothers me as I feel that Tyr's later game play when compared to earlier game play is much harder to read and interpret given this "whose reads are they anyway" where all the reads are cursory and the logic don't matter. It just feels like those reads were slipping away:

However, at the end of the D-1, I definitely found the whole check Vinyl. commentary to be something aggressive and a push that I wouldn't think Tyr-mafia would make after getting a mislynch. I stopped looking deeply into Tyr around D-2 due to me just deciding to carry him as town and hoping he won't shoot me in the face somewhere down the road.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I actually like Tyr's reaction to BSP's pressure in #70. He was at L-1, but he had this whole, "come at me" vibe:

Seemed more of an overreaction to me, I don't understand the need for him to sweat over random votes in RVS, more or less think they weren't random.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Vinyl. you've held onto this Badwolf read of yours all goddamn game. I would suggest making it more visible for us to see instead of lightly stating he's your scum-read.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Now this transition bothers me as I feel that Tyr's later game play when compared to earlier game play is much harder to read and interpret given this "whose reads are they anyway" where all the reads are cursory and the logic don't matter. It just feels like those reads were slipping away:

Definitely agree with you, it's a main reason why I've considered the probability. I don't feel it's the same Ttar I played with in Newbie 20 because he just seemed more willing to do things instead of waiting like he is here. Ttar, could you tell me why you've been so quiet this game or lately? I'm not talking about inactivity, I'm just talking about when you post or come into the thread, you seem like you have something to say and then just end up butchering it down and make me guess your ulterior motive.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Also: I'm getting really tired of people on this site accusing me of being incapable of rational thought just because I incorporate gut feelings into my reads. Just because I use feelings doesn't mean I don't use logic as well >_>

Then..what are you waiting for? Your only lead is Vinyl. from the last post you actually voted someone. Tell me why I should follow your vote or why you're right, there is a lack of initiative.

 

[ranmaru]

Definitely agree with you, it's a main reason why I've considered the probability. I don't feel it's the same Ttar I played with in Newbie 20 because he just seemed more willing to do things instead of waiting like he is here. Ttar, could you tell me why you've been so quiet this game or lately? I'm not talking about inactivity, I'm just talking about when you post or come into the thread, you seem like you have something to say and then just end up butchering it down and make me guess your ulterior motive.

You know? Remember when I was directing cop/tracker to target him? It felt like he was urging Vinyl to be targetted so he could deflect any actions from giving him attention. That's how it felt like to me.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

That's a huge reach and something that I wouldn't consider at all.

 

[ranmaru]

Hmm, alright then. I'm still waiting on Acrostic for his scumreads, and I don't see the point in him just explaining why he felt Ttar was legit instead of going into who he finds scummy....

 

[#HBC | Kary]

/ VOTECOUNT 2-5

Acrostic (0);
TyranitarPhantom (0);
BadWolf28738 (1); Vinyl.
Monstmrna (1); Ranmaru
Vinyl. (2); Monstmrna, Ragnarock
Ranmaru (0);
Ragnarock (0);

Not Voting (3); Acrostic, Badwolf28738, TyranitarPhantom

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch!
Deadline is Sunday, September 16th, at 7PM EST.

..................................................

 

[Tyranitarphantom]

Ttar, could you tell me why you've been so quiet this game or lately? I'm not talking about inactivity, I'm just talking about when you post or come into the thread, you seem like you have something to say and then just end up butchering it down and make me guess your ulterior motive.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. But I think I've made my motives clear: I want to win. How do we do that? Lynch the right person. I still have a bad taste in my mouth after my last game, and I don't want that to happen again. I wasn't convinced at all about STEM yesterDay, and I feel like I could've turned that around if he hadn't thrown in the towel.

ToDay, I still don't have any clear reads. I have my reasons for partially trusting Badwolf, but that's about it. That's why I've been rather quiet. I'm waiting for someone to slip up. That being said, I won't let this day end without a lynch. I'm considering other potential lynch targets besides Vinyl, but like I said: I want to get this right. I'll take all the time in the world to get this right.

Soup, you've been tossing votes around. Who do you think is the most viable lynch target as of now?