Newbie 19/Paper Mario: TTYD mafia // Game Over! Who won?

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I had a scum lean on Rake, start of Day 1, from his actions in the pre-game.
Apparently he hadn't read his role PM, making my observations null.
I'm going to finish this line of questioning before i bring up anything else.


Right. I don't have a problem with you not reading your PM, exactly. But on the other hand, it doesn't help town AT ALL. You're basically trying to make your life easier at the expense of actually hindering other people who are trying to read you. You're purposefully giving off unreliable tells, and I can't see much pro-town intent in wanting to do that.
Now, yeah I can appreciate it's a burden to play to your role... but that's the game.

So, I can believe you didn't read your role pm, w/e.

The part I am really mad about is that you apparently edited your confirmation post AFTER you read you role PM:



Except when I asked you at what point you read your role PM, you linked me to your #155.



BUT WHAT'S THIS? Your #155 was posted:
Your confirmation post (#7) was edited:
Which shows you clearly edited your confirmation only minutes after posting it.

So, barring some sort of HUGE miscommunication on your part, you're lying about this. Which suggests to me you had read your role pm before the game started, and were actually lying about this as well.

So, explain this to me?

Did not now there was a time for that to be honest, I pointed to that post because I thought that's where I looked at my role pm. If it says it ways mintues later than that must have been when I changed it. If thats the case then I may have changed it before I read my pm. I cannot really remember when I read my pm, all I know is I did not read it in the beginning, not until a little into the game.

I assume if all posts have a time, whatever time I posted directly after my edit, the following post would be the first knowing my role ? As I stated, I know I didn't read it and really when you asked for a post I picked the one I believed to have read my pm by, it's entirely likely that I edited it before even reading it on believing that having confirming instead of confirmed would stall the game.

I honestly couldn't peg an exact post in regards to your question so I chose what I believed to be correct.

I will admit me not reading my pm was selfish and not pro-town, but to be honest the only person it hurts at that point is me. If people get a scum read from me off that, then so be it, it will just be up to me to be a studious member of town.

And for the most part, I think most people in this thread would agree that I am reasonably easy to read. Especially pre linking old games, I could have easily just said that my style is this way or that way, but it was more helpful to everyone to just see my past games where I posted in the way I do and understand my playstyle that way.

Right enough. It's real easy to ask questions.

I'm not feeling Clover as that scummy right now.
As I said, J's flip made me feel better about Clover being town.
Aside from being reluctant to get involved at the start of the game, and claiming VT (which I still don't know exactly what the purpose was, but w/e) I'm not seeing what he's done that might be scummy.
I'm a bit concerned that he's an easy target right now, and that people I think are scummy are just going to jump on him. So yeah, I want less pressure on Clover so that I can see him scumhunting, rather than being defensive.
Oh, and I'm not certain, but Ran vs. Clover reads most like town vs. town to me. I will admit it was a bit of a blur. Ran's case on Clover early on was good scumhunting, but I don't think it was enough to lynch someone off, and I thought Clover responded well.
Does that clear it up?

Kary, this resonates as an interesting take, because previously I stated to Clover asking him how he would react knowing that Ran's case may be pressure related. And Clover seemed to be relieved ? (I cannot recall her response to my saying this).

If Clover is the "easy target" then i am willing to move my vote. I would be interested in Clovers take on things, considering that what Kary said is accurate, Clover actually does have a reasonable excuse for being behind on his scum hunting.

And looking at Clovers defence, it looks similar to how he dealt with Ran's case.

It seems like the best choice would be to step back from the Clover case and go back to Badwulf and J.

UNVOTE

Clover, lets see whatcha got : )
Also: this phone thing Clover mentions, I am unfamiliar with cell phones, so would anyone care to expand ? Is what Clover stated feasible ?

Also this benji angle (which I may have already mentioned above ) is an interesting angle to me , Consider this : J went out of the way to defend Benji, for Benji.

The following quote comes from J:

I really like Benji's 308. I feel I am getting a really good view of his thoughts this game and I like his direction. Usually when Benji is scum, for me, I can figure it out with just one eye glance but so far there have been no "OMG he is SOOOO scum, lynch him!" and I feel myself more just nodding along with what he has to say and I do like his BadWolf vote because that is where I am leaning especially if it is coming towards a BadWolf or Clover lynch like the game seems to be going at the current time.


@People that suspect Benji: Can you go into why you feel this way?

This is Benji's 308: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14569186&postcount=308


Now , he claims to agree with my posts wrt to Badwulf and that agreement plus the fact that " i am going to vote him for the first day because im sure that he is".

But this was my post before that , to which he was agreeing to :
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14568990&postcount=300

I literally mention Badwulf one time in that entire post.
Now yes, It was a good point , because that post was really bad by Badwulf. And his response to it, now knowing his flip, looks just as bad.

Now, because Benji stayed on Badwulf, it makes me wonder were Benji's alliances lie . Because there are of course , three logistical options to look at:

1) Benji red-scum and he stayed on Badwulf on badwulf advice (possibly believing he could work out of his lynch). That way benji gets town points for being there.(And technically double town points for being in on his lynch.)
2) Benji yellow scum : Following J's lead he gets on the Badwulf train. And can attribute his lack of reasoning as liking my issues with one of Wulf's posts and put the rest down as newbie whatever.
3) Benji is town and his reasoning was ACTUALLY newbie whatever + flat out love of my post wrt to Badwulf.

Now why I mention this is, to the best of my knowledge, J doesn't do something similar wrt to the other people J knew from IRl mafia(If J does this I would be interested to see with who and where).

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Kary, what is your current opinion on Benji? Also, thoughts on Orbo?

Benji I think I'm alright with. Admittedly my memory is a bit fuzzy but I recall him seeming pretty genuine in his reads, and pretty observant overall. He's down as a town lean right now, I think I recall saying J's flip made me think better of him. I'll re-read him now and give you an update.
Orbo I remember not being here. Can't remember anything that stood out

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Kary, what are your thoughts on Loli ?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Rake, I think you could really do with being more concise.

Fine with Loli atm, think I said that already

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

One more thing Kary :


When you saw the Wulf wagon, did you get the same feeling as Ran pointed out recently, that i may have t went up too quick ?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

EBWOP *it

and I mean in the sense that while J's case was solid, it still shot up too quickly ? Like maybe her scum partners buddying J to get town points ?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I think I pointed out how the votes broke down on Wulf wrt to who actually made a case and who was essentially just "there ". I feel like something obvious is staring me in the face for some reason

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Hmm, considering that Badwolf did seem very likely to be scum, it's possible that the whole yellow scumteam will have jumped on the waggon to look good on Badwolf's flip, yeah.

But overall I don't think it happened too quickly, no. I was happy with the way things went down, and while I'm going to be looking at why people were on that waggon, I don't think the waggon's speed in itself tells you anything.

Also, I don't need to know every little bit of your thought process If you think there's something you're missing, please let me know once you've been and looked for it.

Oh, and one more thing. When I voted you right at the start of the Day and said it was serious, why were you asking me for a case on you? Surely if I had a scum read on you from the pre-game but you hadn't read your role pm, then whatever case I might have on you was just going to be wrong anyways?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Hmm, considering that Badwolf did seem very likely to be scum, it's possible that the whole yellow scumteam will have jumped on the waggon to look good on Badwolf's flip, yeah.

But overall I don't think it happened too quickly, no. I was happy with the way things went down, and while I'm going to be looking at why people were on that waggon, I don't think the waggon's speed in itself tells you anything.

Also, I don't need to know every little bit of your thought process If you think there's something you're missing, please let me know once you've been and looked for it.

Oh, and one more thing. When I voted you right at the start of the Day and said it was serious, why were you asking me for a case on you? Surely if I had a scum read on you from the pre-game but you hadn't read your role pm, then whatever case I might have on you was just going to be wrong anyways?

That is true. I think I need to look close at how the votes fell on Badwulf.

I asked you for the case for these reasons : How you read people. As I believe I stated earlier, I could not analyse what you were not giving me, and the best I have on you is old meta from your scum game in Breaking Bad Newbie, and I am disinclined to rely on old meta.

Even if your case was going to be wrong, it could still help town with new angles and ideas. Much the same as my case was wrong on Orbo in Breaking Bad Newbie, it actually ended up providing new angles to people (I would hope, I was unable to follow Breaking Bad newbie too closely after I died). So there is that option.

I could have defended said case on me, and use it to build new ideas, as could the rest of town.

It`s similar to why I got on Clover when Clover stated a dislike of certain posts of mine, but didn`t elaborate in the beginning (as I recall) as to which ones or why. Scum may try to accuse everyone (I believe someone mentioned this in this very thread). while doing no work, it is also my understanding that this is a normal scum tactic, accuse everyone, do no real hunting , board wagons everywhere, etc.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Just lost a post

Benji I'm fine with, town lean. I like the way that he posts his reads, I can see his train of thought. He seemed to be suspicious of quite a lot of people but I think that was just him being careful early game.
The one thing that didn't quite sit right was the way he talked about people being suspicious of him, e.g. in one case him asking why people had him as a scumpick, but that's probably nothing.

Orbo's pretty null to me. I think he said he had Rake as town so I'd like to hear what that's about. Also, he slipped onto the Badwolf waggon without much fanfare, which is a little suspicious. But yeah null overall methinks.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Hmm ok. @Rake, it says in my notes your #155 reeks of scum. I may get back to you on that.

Also, what is your read on Homeslice? I understand you have a town read on her despite pushing her yesterday?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Kary. Case on me , I don't think you have one and I think your trying really hard to appear like your doing something, when your really just skimming.

Hmm, see this seems a bit of a stretch. I obviously wasn't trying really hard to look like I was doing something. I was doing something, which was talking to Vinyl. You seem to want my case on you really badly considering all you needed it for was an idea of how I read people.
Also, why do you need to know how I read people, unless you're concerned about me reading you?
I don't recall you asking everyone for cases etc. so why ask me in particular?

This still stands out to me as a helluva overreaction to one early-game vote on you, by the way.

IGMEOY: AnoRak

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I assume if all posts have a time, whatever time I posted directly after my edit, the following post would be the first knowing my role?

For completeness I should point out that the above would suggest that the first post you made after confirming (#16) you would've known your role. I.e right at the very start of the pre-game

Also:

@Rake - I've thought about it, and my main question is whether or not you actually did go at it blind. That would be a simple enough response in an attempt to void the pregame actions. Hmm.

Totally did. Look at my confirmation . I edited it. I can even tell you what it said before I edited it : Confirming to be a fat Italian Plumber and talk for RVS stage in obvious Italian manner.

I edited it after I actually read my pm to what it is now.

You sound super confident here.

As I stated, I know I didn't read it and really when you asked for a post I picked the one I believed to have read my pm by, it's entirely likely that I edited it before even reading it on believing that having confirming instead of confirmed would stall the game.

I cannot really remember when I read my pm, all I know is I did not read it in the beginning, not until a little into the game.

I'd hate to catch scum just on a dumb technicality, but to be honest, saying that you didn't read your role PM until a certain point in the game is a terrible defence in the first place, and you should have waves of suspicion heaped upon you purely for your questionable play.

That will be all

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Hmm, see this seems a bit of a stretch. I obviously wasn't trying really hard to look like I was doing something. I was doing something, which was talking to Vinyl. You seem to want my case on you really badly considering all you needed it for was an idea of how I read people.
Also, why do you need to know how I read people, unless you're concerned about me reading you?
I don't recall you asking everyone for cases etc. so why ask me in particular?

This still stands out to me as a helluva overreaction to one early-game vote on you, by the way.

IGMEOY: AnoRak

Like I said, old meta. I`m going to be on Ran tomorrow because I haven`t seen him from Breaking Bad newbie either.

Plus, look how Homeslice reads people, she was all over the place and then wham, she hits Badwulf with the hard-stuff. So my issues with her style turned up to be pointless.

Seeing how people read other people is always good too IMO. I have asked for other people`s cases as I recall, and I have also been asking for people`s opinions on my cases. The circle of information needs to go around right ?

I want your case in particular because I recall you saying something regarding my way of posting, how I was tunnelling to appear town. It`s the first time anyone has had that opinion of my posting style, so I wanted to see if you had a case built on that , because of course I know how annoying my walls are to read lol, half the time when I write them I am on myself for posting that way. On top of that, I had already called Clover on his (as I recall ) And IIRC Ran had reasons in his wall against Clover. So you were the only one at that time IIRC who hadn`t stated specific things, besides the tunnelling factor. And I had already dealt with Ran`s and Clover`s to the best of my ability and got what I could from them, so yours was the only one left, as I recall. I believe Hipster has also stated as having me as null-scum lean, so I can only assume their is a case their, which I want as well, should this be the case.

As I recall I got on Clover for his and dealt with Rans too.

Also for a second I totally forgot what IGMEOY was.

Lastly , @Clover: Thoughts on Kary

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

For completeness I should point out that the above would suggest that the first post you made after confirming (#16) you would've known your role. I.e right at the very start of the pre-game

Also:

You sound super confident here.







I'd hate to catch scum just on a dumb technicality, but to be honest, saying that you didn't read your role PM until a certain point in the game is a terrible defence in the first place, and you should have waves of suspicion heaped upon you purely for your questionable play.

That will be all

1)

Already have stated I did not. Believe what you like.

2) I was totally confident there. Because to the best of my knowledge at that point I edited it after reading it. If the times say otherwise than I must have just edited it , like I said before, because It could have dragged out confirmation. I know I didn`t read it till later. I guess that makes my initial stuff and the defence to it null then. Not a scum tell.

3)
A glare is not a point.

As you yourself showed me, the times say otherwise, I honestly did not know smashboards kept a log of the time of edits, so I must have edited it for the reasons I stated. It`s either that or I may have found my confirmation not to be correct , even without reading my pm, I should still post the correct confirmation to get the game rolling.

The fact that I believed that to be how it was is why I used it as a defence. Like it or not.

I will take full responsibility for all of my initial pre-game shenanigans, it still will not change the role pm I got. Nor how I play this game out.

4)
A glare is not a point.

I did not read my pm till later. Fact
I do not know with any certainty when it happened that I read it. Fact

I defended myself on the belief that I edited after reading it , you showed me that the times say I edited it at a different point. Fact

I must have changed it for one of the two reasons stated above. Fact

The fact that other people did not pursue me on it to the extent you did means you actually are scum hunting where you say you are. Fact

This does not disprove nor prove anything Scum related. Fact.

Fact: It wasn`t a defence. It was a Fact. I had not read it to a point and I believed that point was were I had read it to, I defended myself with that belief. I was wrong. So sue me.

My questionable play has not raised so many questions as you would hope. Fact

I am Darkly, Vanilla Townie. Fact

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

8. Ranmaru - you could be. im not sure yet. there are a lot of things floating around in my head right now. you do a lot of consecutive posts cleaing up previous ones, so i feel like you are trying to avoid suspicion too much and it is showing. you have to be etreemly careful about what you say in this game because you can get quoted and that can generally mess you up. your slightly reckless posts could be an overreaction because of paranoia or it could be a genuine attempt to save yourself. i am keeping my eye on you and am curious to see how you react under pressure.

@Vinyl, Clover, Kary and Homeslice: What do you make of this read by Benji. He is the only person so far having any sort of suspicion on Ran as I recall. Would this be a path you`d be willing to explore during your reads process

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

@Benjy: I could be what? I clear up my posts to make sure people understand what I say. And generally, I'm a reckless player by nature. Does it seem like I'm paranoid anywhere to you? Also tell me, how is Clover putting out pressure in the game, and why do you only look at his first post in the game?

I'll be getting to Clover's points soon

This is Ran`s reply.
It`s why I ask about the Ran path, the response actually isn`t a problem for me , at least on first glance.

But I am nothing if not studious with my reads.

IGMEOY: Ran

I will now be re-reading Ran.

 

[Clover]

@Rake -

I honestly couldn't peg an exact post in regards to your question so I chose what I believed to be correct.

Alright, just one other question about this whole matter. If you weren't sure of what post you had read your PM at, why not just say that originally instead of choosing a specific post? In #726, you told me that "townies should be open in EVERY scenario," and that seems like an omission of a detail that you were aware of. Why the disparity between your words and actions?

Clover, lets see whatcha got : )

Will do! ;D

Your first two possibilities of Benji's alignment seem significantly more likely than the third. He really didn't have too much to go off of from your post, and his explanation of his vote was especially lackluster. I want to hear Benji's response to these accusations, though.

Lastly , @Clover: Thoughts on Kary

An interesting individual, to say the least. I'm leaning slight town towards Kary, at this point. I had thought the Vinyl buddying attempts were strange for a while, but I accepted that as his way to get reads. Also, the whole anti-wall stuff by Kary a while back didn't appear to be helpful to town since valid points are made in those walls, but I could also see how that's a natural response with how tedious they can be. Basically, Kary raises my suspicions more often than not, but, I feel like his responses are generally justifiable, in a way. He says what comes to his mind.

What do you make of this read by Benji. He is the only person so far having any sort of suspicion on Ran as I recall. Would this be a path you`d be willing to explore during your reads process

I see where Benji could be coming from. The whole tunneling me thing early on could have been an effort to draw the attention elsewhere. Just how in-depth he is inspires confidence, along with his prior experience. He posts a significant amount, and that generally comes across as proactive town behavior, so, there's potential that he could be utilizing those factors to prevent suspicion. Worth looking into.

 

[Homeslice2332]

@Vinyl, Clover, Kary and Homeslice: What do you make of this read by Benji. He is the only person so far having any sort of suspicion on Ran as I recall. Would this be a path you`d be willing to explore during your reads process

Benji to me is actaully pretty good at reading people's posts.. What he's saying makes sense, and quite honestly I kinda think that Ran may be yellow scum. I think this only because in retrospect he was pretty quick to accuse Clover of being scummy, and others followed (kinda quickly). I know I was one of them, but I've retracted thinking Clover is scum. If anything, I just don't like his play-style. I may diddle-daddle in his posts later on. It's worth it, I guess.
@IC: Do yellow and red scum know who the others are?

@Loli: How much experiance do you have in regards of playing this game outside of the internet?

@Vinyl: Is it bothering you that Kary is almost trying to get all the answers on you? Do you find this scummy (I say this becasue it seems like he's trying to be towny by asking somone else who he believes to be town who he thinks is scum)

@Rake: I think you asked this (can't remember), but I'm answering anyways-
This is how J played IRL: If he was scum he would buddy someone he knew was town and ask them who they thought was scum, agree, and support. Then lynch the person in question- even if it was another scum-buddy.

Well, I guess I'll be turing in for today.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

My questionable play has not raised so many questions as you would hope. Fact

I am Darkly, Vanilla Townie. Fact

I'm actually ok with lynching you based just on this.

-No need to claim
-Trying to discredit my suspicion of you
-Making assumptions about my thought process and passing them off as 'Fact'
-Reeks of scum

Might as well

Vote: Anomandaris_Rake

P.S. I am 99.9% confident that opposing mafia factions (e.g. red/yellow in this case) have no knowledge of who is in the other faction.

 

[LoliLovesRain]

@homeslice I have very little mafia experience offline. I played like a cpl games with friends but I had rlly good hearing so at night when they'd ask mafia to do stuff and they moved I'd hear it and just vote :/ aside from that nothing xD

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Benji to me is actaully pretty good at reading people's posts.. What he's saying makes sense, and quite honestly I kinda think that Ran may be yellow scum. I think this only because in retrospect he was pretty quick to accuse Clover of being scummy, and others followed (kinda quickly). I know I was one of them, but I've retracted thinking Clover is scum. If anything, I just don't like his play-style. I may diddle-daddle in his posts later on. It's worth it, I guess.
@IC: Do yellow and red scum know who the others are?



@Rake: I think you asked this (can't remember), but I'm answering anyways-
This is how J played IRL: If he was scum he would buddy someone he knew was town and ask them who they thought was scum, agree, and support. Then lynch the person in question- even if it was another scum-buddy.

Well, I guess I'll be turing in for today.

Ahh Okay then. Definitely going to be re-reading J again then.

Also , did I ask this ? I have no idea

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I'm actually ok with lynching you based just on this.

-No need to claim
-Trying to discredit my suspicion of you
-Making assumptions about my thought process and passing them off as 'Fact'
-Reeks of scum

Might as well

Vote: Anomandaris_Rake

P.S. I am 99.9% confident that opposing mafia factions (e.g. red/yellow in this case) have no knowledge of who is in the other faction.

May have not needed to, but I did anyway.

I countered your case to the best of my ability.

I am pretty sure making assumptions in order to see if they play out would be an efficient way to get reads. I made the assumption that Homeslice's wishy-washyness was anti-town, pressured her on it and saw that , from what I got from it, it was in fact her playstyle.

And I was not discrediting your case. I was stating facts as I saw them.

P.S: I would assume since one mafia is a kill mafia and one is not, they would not have knowledge of the other faction or else that would make the game a little broken.

 

[Vinylic.]

@Vinyl, Clover, Kary and Homeslice: What do you make of this read by Benji. He is the only person so far having any sort of suspicion on Ran as I recall. Would this be a path you'd be willing to explore during your reads process

He giving the reads of a hawk's eye when I read that. As I recall, nobody has answered my previous question on which player would you agree on the most, though I should've added on followed as well.

I get the feeling he's getting the most attention and nobody hasn't been aware if he's being lylo or extreme town, probably because they haven't kept a real close eye on him, except benji.

I'm pretty damn interested and I do look foward to benji's newest reads, but he needs to do more than that nonetheless.

@Vinyl: Is it bothering you that Kary is almost trying to get all the answers on you? Do you find this scummy (I say this becasue it seems like he's trying to be towny by asking somone else who he believes to be town who he thinks is scum)

Yeah, it is pretty bothersome and I do find that just a tad scummy. By his expression, he being some sort of a wise guy atm while last time he completely lost his cool on reads, mostly overreacting. So is he now cool with reading rakes's walls?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Vote Count

2. Vinyl.
3. VitaminC (1) - Hipster Sister
4. Orboknown
5. Rake (1) - Kary
6. mightbebenjamin (1) - Clover
7. Clover (1) - Lolilovesrain
8.Lolilovesrain
9. Kary
10. Hipster Sister
12. Ranmaru
13. Homeslice (1) - Ranmaru

Not voting: Orboknown, mightbebenjamin, Homeslice, VitaminC, Vinyl., Rake

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

 

[ranmaru]

Will catch up later tonite.

Also where is benji and orbo?

mod: please prod benji and orbo if possible

 

[#HBC | Kary]

So lets see: One who Badwulf got on for voting for shiesty reasoning (benjis vote was a "because i say so deal iirc) , orbo had a case,

@Rake, where was Orbo's case on Badwolf? Do you think it's a scum tell for people to vote without making a case?

Btw, since we have two scum down, I intend on looking for Yellow scum today. This way, the cop can still be able to find the red scum, while we use our lynches to find yellow scum.

Just look for scum, don't bother looking for specific partners etc, it gives you more room to go wrong. The odds of the cop getting a guilty are pretty low anyways.

Now then. You say that my points on him were valid, and good, and amazing, and yummy, and awesome. Yet, you still don't FEEL it. This, is a lie.

@Ran, are you still of this opinion? How do you feel about Loli right now?

@allWhich player would you agree on one's case the most?

Ran? Rake? Etc?

Neither. I think Ran may be wrong about Clover, and I flat out don't trust Rake.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Right, we need to get this Day moving.
Right now I think we need to lynch one of these people today:

Rake, Hipster Sister, Vinyl, Clover, Orbo.
Everyone else I'm ok with right now.

Rake, can go ASAP based on his play, as far as I'm concerned.
Clover is still a bit suspicious but I want to give them some space for now.
Vinyl i'm not getting a strong town feel for, so I'd like to see him scumhunting.
Orbo needs to get in here and make himself useful
Hipster Sister I am very suspicious of, and I feel may be scum being cautious.

I'd like for everyone to vote either Hipster Sister or Rake right now, whichever you think is most scummy; there is almost no harm in voting people in order to see how they react.

@Hipster Sister: I believe you're purposefully fence-sitting and not taking hard stances. I also believe you're trying to push suspicion onto VitaminC. Please show me where you've taken a hard stance this game, and give me your opinion on both Rake and Vinyl.

@Ran: One of you or Rake is scum, Y/N? Rake is appealing to you in order to avoid suspicion Y/N? Rake is scum Y/N? I will happily push Clover later if you help me in this regard now.

That'll probably do. Here's a ika:

 

[(:xXx11!1!LegOLAAAzz!!11XxX:)]

HipsterSister, mightbebennjamin, Orboknown, and VitaminC have all been prodded.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Orbo had his 409 and his 402 where he pointed out things he disliked about Badwulf's play, which if I remember correctly is more than some other people did wrt to the Wulf wagon

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Rake: lol, ok, that is definitely not what I would call a 'case'; he's more or less just said 'I'm suspicious of you'. ANYWAY note to self: Orbo/Rake scumbuddies?
also @Rake, you didn't answer my second question, I'll ask again:
Do you think it's a scum tell for people to vote without making a case?

Oh, and @Vinyl: Are you town? Why do you keep ignoring this question?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I'll be addressing some stuff soon Kary.

I'll get to both those questions after what I'm writing now is done.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Right, we need to get this Day moving.
Right now I think we need to lynch one of these people today:

Rake, Hipster Sister, Vinyl, Clover, Orbo.

Rake, can go ASAP based on his play, as far as I'm concerned.
Clover is still a bit suspicious but I want to give them some space for now.
Vinyl i'm not getting a strong town feel for, so I'd like to see him scumhunting.
Orbo needs to get in here and make himself useful
Hipster Sister I am very suspicious of, and I feel may be scum being cautious.

I'd like for everyone to vote either Hipster Sister or Rake right now, whichever you think is most scummy; there is almost no harm in voting people in order to see how they react.

@Ran: One of you or Rake is scum, Y/N? Rake is appealing to you in order to avoid suspicion Y/N? Rake is scum Y/N? I will happily push Clover later if you help me in this regard now.

That'll probably do. Here's a ika:

Kary before you had no apparent issue with what Vinyl. was doing, or at least no issue that I can recall you pointing out. Besides Vinyl. needing to scum-hunt, which you assume he hasn't been doing, why does he suddenly peak your suspicion ? Are you worried now that Homeslice and Vinyl. seem to be seeing some of what your doing as scummy ?


@Kary: It's completely plausible that neither of me or Ran is scum.
If I was appealing to Ran, why wouldn't I have simply pushed the Clover wagon without questioning it? Furthermore I even made my own case of questions I had for Clover, and to top it all off, Ran asked me for my opinion on it a long time ago and I just now got to it, what with all of the other posts going on (D1 apparently is very active while D2 lies around). If I was appealing to him , wouldn't it make more sense that I would blindly buddy his case on Clover and then just let his lynch on Clover pull through ? Or buddy his other scum reads besides mine , if I was going to appeal to him ?

Plus as I just stated , I don't leap all over his other scum reads, so I'm confused as to were you think I am appealing to Ran.


And now you seem quite content to push Clover again , where before you had this mentality:

I should mention that on a re-read of Clover I'm alright with him, and I'd like for people to give him another chance, not just pile pressure on.

I feel like Clover probably isn't scum

I don't like Clover, per se, but I'm not seeing scumClover right now and I'd like him to be given some breathing room so he can hunt scum

For crying out loud, can you please stop tunneling Clover; he's barely had a chance to do anything this game because since before the first Day even started he's been questioned and pressured and constantly on the defensive.
How am I supposed to be able to tell whether someone is pro-town in their intent when all they have time for is answering more questions that only boil down to 'I don't like this one thing you said'.

I'm not feeling Clover as that scummy right now.
As I said, J's flip made me feel better about Clover being town.
Aside from being reluctant to get involved at the start of the game, and claiming VT (which I still don't know exactly what the purpose was, but w/e) I'm not seeing what he's done that might be scummy.
I'm a bit concerned that he's an easy target right now, and that people I think are scummy are just going to jump on him. So yeah, I want less pressure on Clover so that I can see him scumhunting, rather than being defensive.
Oh, and I'm not certain, but Ran vs. Clover reads most like town vs. town to me. I will admit it was a bit of a blur. Ran's case on Clover early on was good scumhunting, but I don't think it was enough to lynch someone off, and I thought Clover responded well.

But now you are perfectly willing to push Clover later as long as Ran sides with you on me. That looks more like you trying to appeal to Ran wrt to his read on me, which is odd because you accuse me of appealing to Ran, and then proceed to do exactly the same thing.

If you are so willing to give Clover space why do you now assert you'd be happy to push Clover , when you were originally the one asserting that Clover needs space. It seems like your being very loose with regards to Clover and trying to keep your options open should people stay backed off of CLover. So for clarifications sake, exactly how much space were you planning to give Clover before pushing Clover again ?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

@Rake: lol, ok, that is definitely not what I would call a 'case'; he's more or less just said 'I'm suspicious of you'. ANYWAY note to self: Orbo/Rake scumbuddies?
also @Rake, you didn't answer my second question, I'll ask again:
Do you think it's a scum tell for people to vote without making a case?

Oh, and @Vinyl: Are you town? Why do you keep ignoring this question?

It may not be a "case " case, but it is certainly more than what a player like mightbebenjamin provided wrt to his Badwulf vote, and it surprises me that no one took any issue with that vote, because the reason mightbebenjamin uses(if you could even call it a reason) is just flat out odd. He buddies "my points on Badwulf)( all of one line of mine) wrt to Badwulf and then says something to the effect of "I know you are scum, so you must be scum ".

Sorry must have missed the second one:

I cannot be sure if I would call it a scum tell, because there could be any number of reasons for the votes: RVS, Pressure to post, reaction test, etc. In a stage like RVS or like pre-game in this game where everyone was voting every which way randomly, then cases of course wouldn't exactly be a given thing.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Rake, seriously bro, you have some issues.

Maybe you just can't read
Maybe you're just really bad at this game
Maybe you're scum

Don't really care which, still want you dead.

When I ask Ranmaru a question you should NOT be jumping in to defend yourself;
this a) should not be your priority as a townie b) does not look good on you c) interferes with my line of scumhunting.

You also shouldn't be trying to nit-pick over my stance on Clover which, if I haven't made myself perfectly clear is that I'm ok with him dying but it is not my priority. To ask exactly how much space I'm going to give him is a stupid freaking question that wouldn't catch me out even if I was scum. I want people to stop pressuring Clover for the time being.

Oh, and maybe I was suspicious of Vinyl all along and didn't tell you. Deal with it. Me revealing that sort of information is only going to change the way Vinyl plays, so it has basically no benefit in terms of trying to read him.

TL,DR: I'm trying to scumhunt, why are you getting in my way?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Oh, before I forget, here's something town needs to think about doing:

Before every lynch, all the players need to out that days reads (as they stand pre lynch).

That way, if we lynch yellow or mis-lynch town, then during the night phase, whoever gets killed will at least have put up their thoughts.

V/LA : Rest of the day, I need to see a man about a bicycle

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Oh, before I forget, here's something town needs to think about doing:

Before every lynch, all the players need to out that days reads (as they stand pre lynch).

That way, if we lynch yellow or mis-lynch town, then during the night phase, whoever gets killed will at least have put up their thoughts.

V/LA : Rest of the day, I need to see a man about a bicycle

Don't do this, this is a really bad idea.
Telling scum that you're onto them when they're not even likely to be lynched that day just gives them more to work with, and allows for them to compensate. The likelihood that you're going to die in a given night is very low anyways. If you have something that you think is particularly important then by all means make sure you bring it up in the thread, but giving full reads every day is a ridiculous idea.

Why on earth you think having more general information out in the open will make our lives easier I have no idea :/
JUST HUNT SCUM

 

[Vinylic.]

Oh, and @Vinyl: Are you town? Why do you keep ignoring this question?

I don't know, why do you keep asking the question?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You don't know why you're ignoring the question?



I find it interesting that you don't want to answer it.

Some people are reluctant to say that they are town when they're not.

 

[Vinylic.]

But that's what you think, not know.

A question like that depends, but doesn't really serve that much of a purpose.