Newbie 19/Paper Mario: TTYD mafia // Game Over! Who won?

[mightbebenjamin]

lesse here...
hipster, the reference i made to the attack on you that you couldnt find was faulty, i did misread a post.
Clover, at first i didnt suspect you, but there is a little doubt growing in the back of my mind. little things here and there do seem to be popping up, but not enough to suspect you yet. you have defended yourself well, so you have held under pressure. on a scale of 1 to 12 (since there are 12 people other than me in this game) i would put you at a 7 or an 8 (1 being mafia don, and 12 being captian America).
Hipster again. you are finally going onto the badwolf bandwagon, which makes me believe that you are turning on your scumbuddy in order to distance youself ( i know how much you hate that term but sorry, seemed appropriate ). it might just be that im so convinced you are evil that you can do no right as of now, but im looking into you a lot more from now on. hopefully, you will say something exceptionally townie soon.
Clover, are you calling me benjy because i know you irl or are u just joining everybody else? just curious. helps me get a read.
Kary, your all caps response is confusing. it is either a bad townie move that you are hoping gets the point across, or you are playing a too stupid to be true mafia role. i would appreciate a response to this.
Badwolf, i wanna see you respond to J's wall. you havent defended much lately, only assigned other blame. not looking good for you if you want to convince us before the dealine.
would say more, but g2g to bed.

 

[#HBC | J]

I have responded to you Wolfy, don't say I haven't.

I never said that BadWolf. You completely dropped your CloverTown the very second Ran posted his case and just hopped on it. There is a difference between "acting on suspicions" and "jumping on a popular vote"



You are not getting the point. That post was after the fact and actually let's bring it up:




There are a couple of flaws here. Within the third section is the biggest flaw because you are being hypocritical with saying "following you(Ran) is not a good sign" because the fact is, that is what you are doing with your Clover-read and following Ran on that wagon.

Then you try and push your own meta onto someone else when Clover is completely different then you tbh. He continously keeps a cool head while in your last game, you had a record of becoming a little hot-headed like you have been this game.

The other two points are just you agreeing more with what Ran has said.




Yet, now you have seemed to have changed your mind on the fact that she was making "newb mistakes" and now you have her as leaning scummy with your "scum gauge" filling. i.e. here:



You are being contradictory with your reads on not only Clover but now Homeslice. No me gusta.



Quantity<Quality. Yes, there is only 3 quotes but I'm not gonna go about trying to scrounge every post you have ever done as scummy because that would be reaching for a reason to call you scum. I have found scummy posts within what you have posted and those stuck out to me as the scummiest and the strongest. A case does not have to be super huge to still hold merit to it. I have come up good evidence that others also agree with that you are being scummy for these reasons. You say I am pulling out of my *** yet you have not shown as such/nor really pointed that out.

Also, I believe I've had a scum-read on you from early on, not just recently. ;P

So I don't get where you are getting the high and mighty position from but I have not ignored you and actually have taken the time to adresse what you have posted.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Badwolf, i wanna see you respond to J's wall. you havent defended much lately, only assigned other blame. not looking good for you if you want to convince us before the dealine.
would say more, but g2g to bed.

I addressed this in my wall.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I wasn't talking to you here Rake, I was talking to Homeslice.

That quote was one of Homeslices though.

 

[#HBC | J]

Rake, since you are here and don't have a vote anywhere. Where are you currently looking to find a home for that vote?

Which wagon do you like more? Clover or Wolfy?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I have to sleep.

But since it came up:

Neither.

Yet.

I am still awaiting some replies to my stuff and I need to go over Ran and Clover again.

I keep getting pulled away though : (

 

[#HBC | J]

Neither...?

Well that wasn't an answer I was expecting to be completely honest haha.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Not exactly what I was looking for, but whatever.

I never said that BadWolf. You completely dropped your CloverTown the very second Ran posted his case and just hopped on it. There is a difference between "acting on suspicions" and "jumping on a popular vote"

Ok so one vote on him counts as popular? If I was going to jump on a wagon don't you think I would have done it to Homeslice rather than the person with only one vote? Illogical.

There are a couple of flaws here. Within the third section is the biggest flaw because you are being hypocritical with saying "following you(Ran) is not a good sign" because the fact is, that is what you are doing with your Clover-read and following Ran on that wagon.

Yet, now you have seemed to have changed your mind on the fact that she was making "newb mistakes" and now you have her as leaning scummy with your "scum gauge" filling. i.e. here:

1. I said I would forgive her smaller mistakes. Flip-flopping is not a small mistake.

2. I said I had a null-scum on her earlier in the post and even within it said that she was becoming more scummy with every post.

You are being contradictory with your reads on not only Clover but now Homeslice. No me gusta.

I addressed this above.

Also, I believe I've had a scum-read on you from early on, not just recently. ;P

So what? You've provided a small case against me and I've responded. One of your big arguments however is how much of an ******* I've been throughout the game. This isn't a scum tell I just am getting annoyed with your assumption that since I'm a duche I'm scum. There's a big difference between those things, as shown in 18. I like evidence, if you can shovel enough on me, hell I'll hammer myself.

That quote was one of Homeslices though.

She was quoting me on it.

 

[#HBC | J]

Before I adresse the above, Wolfy, answer me this:

Did you read the post I quoted to you before I re-posted it?

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Did you read the post I quoted to you before I re-posted it?

Yes I did I just didn't think it was an substantial claim against me. And just as a note I've read through this entire thread letter for letter.

 

[HipsterSister]

I'm going to point out that I have read everything so far. My point was that I didn't want people to post these big walls, and that if they kept doing so I then wouldn't read them.

I don't believe all the walls were crucial, some were better than others. For instance, if you have been asked a lot of questions, your response sometimes ends up as a wall. But if you are asking loads of questions, or just pointing out a lot of things, it can end up being tiresome, and no better than if you'd just picked the best bits.

I'm hoping this clears the air a little. Apologies if I got a bit scary Kary earlier

While I disagree that all walls aren't crucial I get why you wouldn't want to read all of them haha. It just worries me when someone states that they are not going to read something, so try to be a bit more clear on what you mean by not reading next time.

hipster, the reference i made to the attack on you that you couldnt find was faulty, i did misread a post.

Okay that's what I thought. Thanks for clarifying,

Clover, at first i didnt suspect you, but there is a little doubt growing in the back of my mind. little things here and there do seem to be popping up, but not enough to suspect you yet. you have defended yourself well, so you have held under pressure. on a scale of 1 to 12 (since there are 12 people other than me in this game) i would put you at a 7 or an 8 (1 being mafia don, and 12 being captian America).

What specifically are the "little things" that keep popping up to you?

Hipster again. you are finally going onto the badwolf bandwagon, which makes me believe that you are turning on your scumbuddy in order to distance youself ( i know how much you hate that term but sorry, seemed appropriate ). it might just be that im so convinced you are evil that you can do no right as of now, but im looking into you a lot more from now on. hopefully, you will say something exceptionally townie soon.

If you've noticed I haven't joined the bandwagon yet and I'm not voting at the moment. I have a scum read on Badwolf, yes, because he has contradicted himself and he's joined in on a bandwagon with no case. I'm not voting for him at the moment because I'm not so confident in this read on him as to be the hammer. I'm not trying to distance myself by saying that he's scum, I honestly suspect that he is.

So what? You've provided a small case against me and I've responded. One of your big arguments however is how much of an ******* I've been throughout the game. This isn't a scum tell I just am getting annoyed with your assumption that since I'm a duche I'm scum. There's a big difference between those things, as shown in 18. I like evidence, if you can shovel enough on me, hell I'll hammer myself.

Nooooo. Why would you self-hammer if you were town, even if there was a substantial case against you??

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Nooooo. Why would you self-hammer if you were town, even if there was a substantial case against you??

Let me get this to you I AM TOWN, but J wants to see me as scum so that's what he's doing. If I have to flip to prove to him that he is wrong so be it.

 

[#HBC | J]

Yes I did I just didn't think it was an substantial claim against me. And just as a note I've read through this entire thread letter for letter.

I gotcha now haha. Alright time for the final blow. You have contradictions in this post that relate to the bolded that suggest otherwise.

Ok so one vote on him counts as popular? If I was going to jump on a wagon don't you think I would have done it to Homeslice rather than the person with only one vote? Illogical.

No, there was more then 1 vote on Clover at the time because you forgot about Homeslice voting before you. I'll bring up the vote-count to prove this:

Welp L-4 for Clover.
Vote: Clover
Please give a counter to his case.

You clearly stated that you knew that you were putting Clover at L-4 which would equal 3 votes. So basically, this is a clear and blatant contradiction to the facts, Wolfy.

The logic makes perfect sense. Especially when you did exactly what you said you "would have done". Homeslice only had 1 vote, while Clover had 2 and you knew this and hopped on that wagon. You also did this in order to help give the opposing wagon that isn't your own equal/more steam.

1. I said I would forgive her smaller mistakes. Flip-flopping is not a small mistake.

Flip-flopping is the only mistake that Homeslice has had that you have pointed out this game and has not really done much else otherwise. It's actually the only thing people have pointed out that holds any suspicion is her lack of seriousness when it comes to her scum-reads and her flip-flopping on them.

2. I said I had a null-scum on her earlier in the post and even within it said that she was becoming more scummy with every post.

That isn't a reason, Wolfy. You can't just say "They are just being more scummy with every post" and expect that to satiate as a reason. How is every post of Homeslice's more scummy? You were calling her pretty heavily town but then your mind just seemed to switch with the more people began to poke at the possibility of Homeslice being scum which makes me believe much more that you are only being opportunistic on the Homeslice dislike to hopefully swing some of the heat off of your own.

You aren't playing to lynch scum anymore, you are playing solely for survival of yourself and you have yet to even push Clover/Homeslice more or even question them that much.

I addressed this above.

No it wasn't addressed and you still have yet to fully explain your flips on Clover/Homeslice besides weak little reasonings like "oh now every post just looks scummier to me (Homeslice)" or "I agree with pretty much everything Ran has said (Clover)"

So what? You've provided a small case against me and I've responded. One of your big arguments however is how much of an ******* I've been throughout the game. This isn't a scum tell I just am getting annoyed with your assumption that since I'm a duche I'm scum. There's a big difference between those things, as shown in 18. I like evidence, if you can shovel enough on me, hell I'll hammer myself.

The bolded, underlined, and highlighted section is a complete contradiction to the facts. You have not been reading my posts clearly like you have suggested, Wolfy. My biggest argument against you is your contradictions and your opportunistic looking hops onto popular wagons in order to save your own behind. I have not said that because of your "aggresive" posting style that you are scummy.

You also try and attack that I only used 3 quotes on you as a reason that my case is weak, which is a very weak defense in itself because you are acting like all cases must be a certain length/degree which is not how mafia works. Not everything is cookie cutter nor do I believe you should be thinking that way and it seems you are just trying to find a way to attack what I have said without really attacking the content I have presented. You say you have responded but the fact is, it does not stop there especially when evidence begins to culminate around your slot.

Bottom line, it's time for you to get lynched.

 

[HipsterSister]

Let me get this to you I AM TOWN, but J wants to see me as scum so that's what he's doing. If I have to flip to prove to him that he is wrong so be it.

This post doesn't sound town at all to me. It sounds like fear tactic and/or giving up because you're unable to defend yourself.

 

[ranmaru]

No. Don't self hammer. *face-palm* OR SELF VOTE. Don't do either.

This is to everyone. Don't you dare self hammer. You know what your own role is. If you are town, then if you self-hammer you are letting scum win.

Don't do the work for them. Make them work for it themselves. Plus, you have to keep defending yourself so that it makes it harder for the scum the next day. They won't look good if you flip town.

Now, another reason not to self hammer, again, is because you KNOW your own role. Yet, every person has ONE vote on them. A vote shows where that person has wanted to go in terms of lynching. So, if you self-hammer, you take away ONE PIECE OF PAPER TRAIL from the puzzle. That helps scum because then they'll say "Oh hey, I wasn't on the wagon, was I? So I'm innocent obv".

Basically people's votes on a wagon is used as information, and you self-hammering wastes a vote because you'd be gone already. It wouldn't help find scum.

GOT IT?!?!?!

 

[ranmaru]

Omg I went into the wrong Paper Mario mafia thread xD

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Don't hammer just yet I'm making a rebuttal now. This agrivates me a lot J.

 

[#HBC | J]

I did too at first Ran! xD And then I realized "Oh snap two paper mario's da heck?!"

 

[ranmaru]

HAHA, I bet Sang did too XD

 

[#HBC | J]

Now, Ranmaru, can you comment on the contradictions I have laid out w.r.t. Wolfy?

I kind of can't believe they are so...blatant haha.

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah. I feel it's scummy that he mentions that he wasn't getting on a wagon that was getting more popular, yet was the third vote on the wagon.

I also do agree with him being opportunistic with the "Homeslice is becoming scummier and scummier" point.

And his defense is bad.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

That isn't a reason, Wolfy. You can't just say "They are just being more scummy with every post" and expect that to satiate as a reason. How is every post of Homeslice's more scummy? You were calling her pretty heavily town but then your mind just seemed to switch with the more people began to poke at the possibility of Homeslice being scum which makes me believe much more that you are only being opportunistic on the Homeslice dislike to hopefully swing some of the heat off of your own.

You aren't playing to lynch scum anymore, you are playing solely for survival of yourself and you have yet to even push Clover/Homeslice more or even question them that much.

You are right here. I'm not questioning them, because when I questioned them I got heat. So I stopped.

The logic makes perfect sense. Especially when you did exactly what you said you "would have done". Homeslice only had 1 vote, while Clover had 2 and you knew this and hopped on that wagon. You also did this in order to help give the opposing wagon that isn't your own equal/more steam.

Ok, I have read through everything you can't expect me to remember every freaking detail though. It's been RL days since that first Vote count and I didn't feel like looking it back up right now. Ok so 1 for me, that was a mistake.

You were calling her pretty heavily town but then your mind just seemed to switch with the more people began to poke at the possibility of Homeslice being scum which makes me believe much more that you are only being opportunistic on the Homeslice dislike to hopefully swing some of the heat off of your own.

Give me where I called her town. 'Cause I just looked through all my posts and never once did I call her town. Heck even look here

Heck this entire post made me realize how much she was scum.

Get your facts straight J.

No it wasn't addressed and you still have yet to fully explain your flips on Clover/Homeslice besides weak little reasonings like "oh now every post just looks scummier to me (Homeslice)" or "I agree with pretty much everything Ran has said (Clover)"

Ok so my whole wall doesn't count as a case? I had several quotes and arguments against her.
Yet again get your facts straight.

You also try and attack that I only used 3 quotes on you as a reason that my case is weak, which is a very weak defense in itself because you are acting like all cases must be a certain length/degree which is not how mafia works. Not everything is cookie cutter nor do I believe you should be thinking that way and it seems you are just trying to find a way to attack what I have said without really attacking the content I have presented. You say you have responded but the fact is, it does not stop there especially when evidence begins to culminate around your slot.

Yeah you gave 3 quotes and I responded to them, yadda yadda yadda, and then this. The whole fact is, is that you haven't been giving a lot of evidence against me J so I can't respond now can I?

Now, Ranmaru, can you comment on the contradictions I have laid out w.r.t. Wolfy?

pffftt. Like I've said: Get your facts straight. Get quotes.

 

[#HBC | J]

BadWolf, you didn't even adresse the biggest part of my problem with you is that you contradicted yourself w.r.t. your votes and you keep saying I haven't provided evidence when it is right there in front of you. You've been caught in a lie.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

BadWolf, you didn't even adresse the biggest part of my problem with you is that you contradicted yourself w.r.t. your votes and you keep saying I haven't provided evidence when it is right there in front of you. You've been caught in a lie.

I haven't contradicted myself. I provided quotes of myself saying the exact opposite of what you've thought I said.

 

[#HBC | J]

I gotcha now haha. Alright time for the final blow. You have contradictions in this post that relate to the bolded that suggest otherwise.

No, there was more then 1 vote on Clover at the time because you forgot about Homeslice voting before you. I'll bring up the vote-count to prove this:

Homeslice was on there and you were adding more steam to the Clover wagon which had more votes than the Homeslice wagon at the time and you did know this. You wanna know how I know you knew this wagon had more than 1 vote?

You clearly stated that you knew that you were putting Clover at L-4 which would equal 3 votes. So basically, this is a clear and blatant contradiction to the facts, Wolfy.

The logic makes perfect sense. Especially when you did exactly what you said you "would have done". Homeslice only had 1 vote, while Clover had 2 and you knew this and hopped on that wagon. You also did this in order to help give the opposing wagon that isn't your own equal/more steam.

Right here, black and white, BadWolf.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Right here, black and white, BadWolf.

Yeah I said that I messed up. That's one against me. Otherwise your entire case was false.

 

[ranmaru]

Oh Wait, J.

Can you tell me how Hipster got up to a town read to you?

I know she has posted some content, but I'd rather play the long game with her. Can you help me in reading her?

 

[#HBC | J]

Also there is nothing really for me to respond in your latest point because you just continue to say "Get your facts straight" when the thing is, they are straight and you are just denying facts that are there that other people are also pointing out.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Also there is nothing really for me to respond in your latest point because you just continue to say "Get your facts straight" when the thing is, they are straight and you are just denying facts that are there that other people are also pointing out.

Except that I've presented quotes that show the exact opposite of what you've been saying! You've shown no quotes and no evidence that is actually valid, except for the wagon thing which I've already accepted as a small case against me.

 

[#HBC | J]

Oh Wait, J.

Can you tell me how Hipster got up to a town read to you?

I know she has posted some content, but I'd rather play the long game with her. Can you help me in reading her?

I saw town-intent in her asking for a vote-count instead of just taking your word as the IC of the game and voting BadWolf. I was actually lurking the thread at the time and was seeing if Hipster was going to just hammer BadWolf because I know she is meticulous and likes to use logic as her premise and also because of what happened last game with hammers so she took the time to try and figure things out without being hasty.

Also her mind has been pretty open this game, yet the only thing holding me back from making her full town is that I haven't seen her do anything, notable if you get what I mean?

I feel she is a slot that will take more time/Day phases in order to completely get her slot figured out because she likes to play her cards close to her chest but not at the same time. xD

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

I will ask you to present two quotes that you know clearly and definitely contradict, other than the wagon.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

oh and btw Unvote Clover's being so inactive I've changed my scum read into Homeslice entirely.

Vote: Homeslice

 

[ranmaru]

I saw town-intent in her asking for a vote-count instead of just taking your word as the IC of the game and voting BadWolf. I was actually lurking the thread at the time and was seeing if Hipster was going to just hammer BadWolf because I know she is meticulous and likes to use logic as her premise and also because of what happened last game with hammers so she took the time to try and figure things out without being hasty.

Also her mind has been pretty open this game, yet the only thing holding me back from making her full town is that I haven't seen her do anything, notable if you get what I mean?

I feel she is a slot that will take more time/Day phases in order to completely get her slot figured out because she likes to play her cards close to her chest but not at the same time. xD

Yeah, the last two lines is why I have a null on her. Like you said, I'll also play the long game with her to see what her true motivations are.

 

[ranmaru]

You weren't voting Clover...

 

[#HBC | J]

.........Clover = inactive?

He's like one of the more active people in the game due to the amount of pressure he has had to respond to.

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

You weren't voting Clover...

Yeah I was....

 

[ranmaru]

Show me.

 

[#HBC | J]

Lol, you weren't voting Clover, BadWolf.....

 

[#HBC | BadWolf]

Lol, you weren't voting Clover, BadWolf.....

You just posted about how you were pissed because I voted him. Trust me I voted him.

 

[#HBC | J]

Show me then, Wolfy.

;P