Newbie 17 - Breaking Bad Mafia! Game over! Who won?

[ranmaru]

Gonna study now. Moar content and responses tommorow. Got a test today.

 

[ranmaru]

**** eror.

I wasnt using my playstyle as an excuse.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

You're making this up.

You: "Since Zen didn't ask again what were your alignments?"
General Response: "I was scum once and town once"

There is nothing from that delivery that you can get. You had no real reason for reasking my questions.

Why isn't there anything I can get? a) that's such a standard answer it might seem suspicious. b) neither of the players I asked actually said that, and who's to say I couldn't get reads from what they did say/do? For instance, Vinyl didn't answer. Suddenly that seems relavent since he's refused to explain why Ran must be town.
If you don't think I was fishing for reads, and you don't think I had a reason for asking, what do you think I was doing? This seems like a big deal for you.

It's very hypocritical for you to call me out on making sure everyone answered, when you wanted that very thing even before people had the chance to answer. Your point is wrong.

I was interested in whether or not, and how, players would answer a question they'd already avoided when called on it. I wasn't calling you out for making everyone answer. In fact I thought that it was weird that you were asking Aleate this general, opening question after so much had already happened. You could have asked him about something actually happening in the game.

At this point you're just accusing me of whatever you can come up with. I highly doubt that you find anything I've done to be actually scummy. You're just over speculating my standard actions.

Doing nothing scummy whatsoever: surely a classic scum-tell? What if I am just calling you out for the sake of it? Don't sweat it- I already said I was struggling to read you.

First question: I'm still apart of the game son.

Then why bother being 'reserved' in the first place? You could give it a few hours and see if the things you've noticed get picked up by another player before you bring them up. And if they don't get picked up, you won't have to worry about people forgetting them or moving on- you can use that influence you have to make sure people pay attention.

Second question: Because I don't need to. Asking questions with obvious responses is no use. You're supposed to look into a persons intentions on your own not directly ask them what their intention is: "hey are you parratoing me?"

You don't need to? You're happy, as an IC, with 3/4 of the players just sitting on your waggons?
I thought it'd be within your powers to try and question whether someone is parroting your view without just straight up asking them. Maybe I didn't make it clear that I wasn't suggesting you asked directly, I apologise.

And if you noticed Lemi, I've given 4 people who I'd be ok with lynching today.

I don't get what you mean. Have you found both scumteams? I'm not calling you on the people you've picked, i'm calling you on picking them and letting everyone just follow your lead. I don't see how it sits with your 'reserved' role, or with town's best interests.

I'm hoping you and I are going to be cool, though.

 

[Axel]

Lemi, you're silly.The stuff you are saying is so minute. I'm not going to discuss how I play with ya wub. Vote Vinyl with me?

Ran explain explain your Vinyl read to me, then rethink it, realize he is scum and join me on his wagon. It's the only way you're making it out alive today.

Why are you voting Shotty if you had an obv town read of him? You even said that you would rather lynch yourself

 

[VitaminC]

One think I've noticed is that both you and Vitamin seem be playing like you have played before. You, Lemi, know all these terms and concepts that a noob wouldn't ordinarily have so I'm quite curious as to where you've gotten the information that you've been using (such as lynching inactives, quick lynching, pressuring, RVS, wagons, etc). I doubt X1 has trained you in all of this.

Vitamin I ask the same of you.

I don't like coming into a game unprepared, so I read through a couple mafias, mostly newbie ones. I wouldn't say I know how to play, but I know the basic rules and terms and have a general idea of what town should be doing. Except for right now, which is my reason for asking everyone how we should proceed.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned that I was in a game a looooong time ago, but I got replaced for inactivity on D1 after only having one post. Massive internet johns on that one. That game is also a reason why I read so many other mafia games before playing, because I went in unprepared for that one and had no idea what I was doing.

Vitamin, why havent you acted upon your kary scumread?

vynil still obv town. Keep bein town man.

IIRC, I gave Kary a null leaning scum read. I'm looking for more information on him at this point because I don't see anyone looking for his lynch. Besides you, of course.

Bolded: This bothers me. Why do you keep doing this to him? It's incriminating of both of you in my eyes.

 

[Jdietz43]

@Kary: Because you were saying things like

P.S. I kind of agree with what you're saying about Ran- I think we may be able to find a better lynch, and I've been of that opinion all along. But it does sound a bit like you're defending him... I don't know. I think what we need to do is keep the scum of the easy Ran waggon, and make them play the game.

Insinuating you had better options than Ran, or reason to believe that someone else would be so sky-high scum that they'd eclipse Ran.

Also, get off Zen's case. He's town and you're wasting your time and/or credibility trying to push it.

@Zen: Why Vinyl over Ran right now (especially after that last post). I don't want to deal with the Ran issue another day a la what would have happened if I was left alive to D2 in SF2 mafia. It just gives mafia options.

 

[Jdietz43]

(He's already taken the opportunity to WIFOM on Vinyl for goodness sakes...)

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Lemi, you're silly.The stuff you are saying is so minute. I'm not going to discuss how I play with ya wub. Vote Vinyl with me?

Yeah, I probably am, and yeah, it probably is. For the time being, we're cool.

And I will
Vote: Vinyl
Because that guy has some questions to answer. I am going to re-read him at some point but right now I think he needs some more pressure on him.


In other news, still waiting on why GLG's got me all figured out:
FoS: GLG
until then.

Also, my opinion on Shottymaster:
Pretty sure he's newbie town.
There was a bit of suspicion when he just 'threw in' a vote for Ranmaru (#210), but I'm pretty sure that just a mix-up.
Also, things like him asking me why I voted for him in RVS (#172), well it's not a bad question but it's also kind of exactly what you'd expect from a newbie.
Finally, I was finding it strange that the almost all the things he asked were just to do with people having voted for him/given a read of him, but now I'm thinking that this is just because it's what he found suspicious, and he is trying to help town. For instance, he calls me out in #248, and I would say there's no reason to go back to this if you're just trying to avoid the spotlight.

Actually scratch all that. I've just realised he didn't answer my question in #262, and people that avoid questions are scum.

^ I was joking, I'm 85% certain he's newbie town. Hope you're ok with that, Shottymaster!

 

[Ori_bro]

Request Mod Count

This is going to influence my vote. I'm still very suspicious of Ran, but Vinyl's case is getting to be a lot stronger. More to come later, I need to get working on a Final Drawing Project.

Spoiler

OOC: Kary could use of that emote ;]

 

[Ori_bro]

Spoiler

*good replaces could.

 

[ranmaru]

Hey Ori_Bro... BRO!

I mean...

OREO_BRO!

...

No.

OBREOOOO!

Talk to me about ShottyMaster and Jdietz. What is your read on them? Why?

 

[ranmaru]

Also, my opinion on Shottymaster:
Pretty sure he's newbie town.
There was a bit of suspicion when he just 'threw in' a vote for Ranmaru (#210), but I'm pretty sure that just a mix-up.
Also, things like him asking me why I voted for him in RVS (#172), well it's not a bad question but it's also kind of exactly what you'd expect from a newbie.
Finally, I was finding it strange that the almost all the things he asked were just to do with people having voted for him/given a read of him, but now I'm thinking that this is just because it's what he found suspicious, and he is trying to help town. For instance, he calls me out in #248, and I would say there's no reason to go back to this if you're just trying to avoid the spotlight.

Underlined, can you explain why it may have been a mixup?

Italics, sure a newbie can do it, but that doesn't make a newbie town does it? What was your exact feelings from that?

Bold, how exactly is he helping town? Also, what made you re-evaluate your 'strange feeling' on him and when did that happen? (Just state the post number)

Also, Vitamin at the time FoS'd him. Why didn't you say anything about it at the time?

Also give me an opinion on JDietz.

 

[ranmaru]

Lemi, you're silly.The stuff you are saying is so minute. I'm not going to discuss how I play with ya wub. Vote Vinyl with me?

Ran explain explain your Vinyl read to me, then rethink it, realize he is scum and join me on his wagon. It's the only way you're making it out alive today.

Why are you voting Shotty if you had an obv town read of him? You even said that you would rather lynch yourself

His suspicions line up with mine and he is voicing his opinion (that can damn him). That's why he is town to me and still town.

Oh OK. Let me think about it... *thinks* Yeah, no.

My read changed on Shotty.

 

[Ori_bro]

Shotty and JD are town. Shotty just hasn't been very helpful. JD has been doing great as far as getting things to progress and making this active.

I'm curious as to why your posts/attitude have made a complete 180.

 

[ranmaru]

Shotty and JD are town. Shotty just hasn't been very helpful. JD has been doing great as far as getting things to progress and making this active.

I'm curious as to why your posts/attitude have made a complete 180.

Underlined, tell me how he hasn't been helpful.

Got ya.

Can you elaborate on my posts and attitude changing? I don't understand your meaning here.

 

[ranmaru]

IIRC, I gave Kary a null leaning scum read. I'm looking for more information on him at this point because I don't see anyone looking for his lynch. Besides you, of course.

Bolded: This bothers me. Why do you keep doing this to him? It's incriminating of both of you in my eyes.

I'm sure you have plenty of information to gather for him. What is your read on him currently?

Bold, what is that supposed to mean?

To the bold you bolded, I'm not doing anything to him. He's town town town.

 

[Ori_bro]

When I say unhelpful, I meant he was targeting only one person and not looking at the whole spectrum. Definitely could have worded that better.

And your attitude/post style has basically jumped from being serious to near lacidazical. You seem like you've lost interest in your claim on shotty. You seemed quite adament about that claim. Why drop it so fast?

 

[ranmaru]

When I say unhelpful, I meant he was targeting only one person and not looking at the whole spectrum. Definitely could have worded that better.

And your attitude/post style has basically jumped from being serious to near lacidazical. You seem like you've lost interest in your claim on shotty. You seemed quite adament about that claim. Why drop it so fast?

Ah ok, yeah it does seem that way. Thank you.

I am serious. Also I don't know what that word means. Simple words man!

What do you mean my claim on shotty?

 

[Ori_bro]

A few pages back I believe you made a claim on Shotty being scum. I dont want to go back and check since I'm on my phone.

 

[ranmaru]

A few pages back I believe you made a claim on Shotty being scum. I dont want to go back and check since I'm on my phone.

Yes, I voted him and am still voting him. What of it?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Ranmaru: Stop doing this.
I gave you a read on Shotty like you asked, I'm not going to go answering all your idle questions, trying to explain every little detail of my thoughts- it's just not that important right now. I'll answer you precisely one question with regards to Shottymaster, so make it a good one.
With regards to JDietz, I haven't made up my mind. He seems pretty adamant you should be lynched, so I was going to go and look over this SF2 mafia he was referring to, and do a re-read on his posts. I have some theories but they're not ready yet- and may never be.

 

[ranmaru]

@Ranmaru: Stop doing this.
I gave you a read on Shotty like you asked, I'm not going to go answering all your idle questions, trying to explain every little detail of my thoughts- it's just not that important right now. I'll answer you precisely one question with regards to Shottymaster, so make it a good one.
With regards to JDietz, I haven't made up my mind. He seems pretty adamant you should be lynched, so I was going to go and look over this SF2 mafia he was referring to, and do a re-read on his posts. I have some theories but they're not ready yet- and may never be.

Fine then, I don't see why you can't answer some simple questions. I will give you one, and I will hold you to that!

Explain to me how he has been helping town and how his vote on me was a mixup in your opinion.

 

[Vinylic.]

You still haven't answered why you were, or seemed to be, so certain Ran was town.

His questions are worth answering. He gives out those questions that give out a strong point.
I don't think he unanswered a single question here, and that's why I think he town.

@Ranmaru: Stop doing this.
I gave you a read on Shotty like you asked, I'm not going to go answering all your idle questions.

And why are you not answering them? Give out a reason.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Fine then, I don't see why you can't answer some simple questions. I will give you one, and I will hold you to that!

Explain to me how he has been helping town and how his vote on me was a mixup in your opinion.

For the record, that's two questions. But I knew you'd do that, so I will let you off.

What makes me think that Shotty's trying to help is that while he hasn't posted a lot, and what he has posted isn't particularly groundbreaking, I think he's acting on his own initiative, and posting things that he thinks are important. To me that sort of attitude suggests he is trying to help town.

There was a mix-up regarding his vote for you in the sense that while he found you suspicious, and wanted to pressure you into saying something more, he didn't realise how close you were to being lynched or that a lynch would end the day, hindering town's development.

 

[Vinylic.]

Wait.


Zen, why did you think serin is fine for lynch, iyo?

 

[VitaminC]

I'm sure you have plenty of information to gather for him. What is your read on him currently?

Bold, what is that supposed to mean?

To the bold you bolded, I'm not doing anything to him. He's town town town.

Whatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhat.
Am I the only one who thought Ran was against Kary? In fact, you said he was a good lynch for today...

The bold means that you're looking for his lynch. At least I thought you were. Did your reads and lynch picks change over the past two days that you've been gone? If so, I'd like a revised version when you have the time.

My read on Kary really is incomplete. He's swaying between town and scum at this point, which may very well be scummy. I'm not entirely trusting of his opinions. If you want more depth, I'll need to reread the thread and get back to you.

Vinyl: Can't scum ask good questions too? Is that really a good reason to think of Ran as town?

 

[Jdietz43]

His questions are worth answering. He gives out those questions that give out a strong point.
I don't think he unanswered a single question here, and that's why I think he town.

Vinyl, he hasn't answered several questions. He hasn't backed up four of his reads, including reading you as town for no reason and having a town read on Shotty before he posted. He refused to answer every single one of those questions.



And oh goodness... Ran is deliberately trying to make a mess of discussion now by asking for clarification on every single thing people point his way. We might have to end this day soon if we don't want it to devolve into an incoherent jumble.

 

[VitaminC]

EBWOP: OH GOD I READ THAT WRONG. Sorry Ran, thought you said Kary was town. Ignore paragraphs one and two.

 

[Vinylic.]

Vinyl: Can't scum ask good questions too? Is that really a good reason to think of Ran as town?

I've recently read jd's post, so the reason is off.

So, if anyone is gonna do a wagon on ran, just make share tht he claims first.
And zen, if you're gonna make a wagon for me, you better start elaborating on why I'm scum.

But answer my question in bold first.

 

[ranmaru]

Its ok vitamin.

Jd I was in break and I will answer all questions so plz gimee time.

Also I did give a reason for vyniltown y u lie

 

[#HBC | Kary]

His questions are worth answering. He gives out those questions that give out a strong point.
I don't think he unanswered a single question here, and that's why I think he town.

And why are you not answering them? Give out a reason.

Ran's questions are, to my mind, really not all worth answering. Consider: I've just said that I thought Shotty was trying to help, and that there had been a mix-up in his 'throwing in' a vote. But Ran asked me how Shotty had been helping town, and how his vote for Ran had been a mix-up. Neither of the things Ran actually asked me about were things that I had said. They were similar, but that doesn't quite cut it.
Secondly, if you'd read the part where Shotty votes for Ran (#210), I think it is more than clear why there seems to have been a mix-up. Ran could have asked me if I was sure it was a mix-up, for instance, and perhaps get my opinion on that. But instead he just asked me to explain what had happened in the game, which, is not a valuable use of my time.
So: Ran's questions. Not all good. Very hit-and-miss.

Oh, and if answering every question you're asked makes you town, surely anyone can be town? So, where are you going with that?

Oh, and fight your own battles, maybe? I'm pretty sure Ran wasn't that bothered that I'm not going to answer everything he posted, why are you?

 

[Jdietz43]

So, if anyone is gonna do a wagon on ran, just make share tht he claims first

In this setup, there's no reason to. There's only VT's, Mafia, and one doc. Any mafia on the lynch is going to claim VT if they think they can get away with it, or doc if they want to cause people duress. There isn't anything to be gained by waiting.

Its ok vitamin.

Jd I was in break and I will answer all questions so plz gimee time.

Also I did give a reason for vyniltown y u lie

Screens or it didn't happen.

I'm going to pull a line from Ryker here...
"Die in a fire"
You had plenty of time to answer questions while you were here, and failed to do so.

 

[Jdietz43]

BTW: If mafia ever claims doc, the real doc shouldn't out unless there's barely any mafia left. (I.e. definitely not now)

It's not a good trade.

 

[VitaminC]

Ranmaru, what do you think of Vinyl now that he's okay with your lynch? Is he still town to you?

 

[Vinylic.]

In this setup, there's no reason to. There's only VT's, Mafia, and one doc. Any mafia on the lynch is going to claim VT if they think they can get away with it, or doc if they want to cause people duress. There isn't anything to be gained by waiting.

Don't be dumb; Without claim, you can't truly be sure of ran is scum or not.

 

[Vinylic.]

EBWOP: if* ran is scum or not.

iPad auto-correct obv.

 

[Jdietz43]

Don't be dumb; Without claim, you can't truly be sure of ran is scum or not.

...

I don't think I can make enough ellipsises to show my incredulousness at this statement. I hope to holy hell you're actually scum so I don't have to hate you for being dense.

 

[Jdietz43]

Claiming gives Ran no credibility. The only reason anyone asks for claims in other setups is they don't know what kind of roles are floating around, and occasionally there's flavor to be had.

We already know what roles are in this game, and that all character flavor is arbitrary from JTB telling us so. Waiting for his claim "to be sure" insinuates that you had no reason to ever suspect anyone ever until they claimed. That's kind of the point of mafia is to develop hunches and act on them.

 

[Axel]

Ranmaru you're trying too hard to play to your meta. You're only asking all those random question to play as you do as town. Asking a bunch of questions doesn't make you town which is what you're trying to do. By the way you're being anti-town, please stop.

Explain to me why your read on Shotty changed. Explain to me your current read on Sailor moon.

@Jdietz: Because we still have so much time in the day. Rather than just sitting on Ranmaru, I'd like to get something done.

@Vinyl. He is lurking. Why do you ask?

 

[Jdietz43]

@Zen: Alright. I was making sure you hadn't completely flaked out and just discarded Ran. I'm worried it's only going to get worse from here on out though, he already knows he's on the block and can't salvage his position. He's only going to make things worse for the whole thread from now on, and has already started to.

(I've kind of lost hope of grilling the inactives until after the flip)