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Newbie 15 - Betty Crocker Mafia - Game Over!

asianaussie

Smash Hero
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I would look into asianaussie, since he was writing Ori off as simply making a lot of newbie mistakes.
Show me evidence. I have in no way disregarded his mistakes as newbie ones, merely suggested the possibility, and if I did so, I wouldn't have written anything off.

I'm starting to think you aren't looking too closely at this game.
 

John2k4

The End of an Era
Joined
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Messages
8,989
Show me evidence. I have in no way disregarded his mistakes as newbie ones, merely suggested the possibility, and if I did so, I wouldn't have written anything off.
Here you go.

not really, there are mistakes and there are newbie mistakes, but i dunno if the question is relevant until i know who he's talking about
it's a hard thing to ask - newbies play in different ways...tbh you can't pull much but baseless conjecture from this sort of question regardless

he's acting a bit like i was as newbie scum, but that shouldn't mean much with the above in mind
--

I'm starting to think you aren't looking too closely at this game.
Honestly, out of the two other games I've played so far, I've been following this one a lot better/more closely.
 

Ori_bro

ignite the fire
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AA i believe leaving crumbs was a decent attempt. Maybe not the best move, but it was something i wanted to get out there slightly.

I like your case on MM because he is playing way to passive and that is something i don't like.

And I can agree about not trusting the ICs. To me Gheb and S2 are the most borderline people in this game imo.

:phone:
 

asianaussie

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How is any of that 'writing him off'? Are you implying I think he's not suspicious?

I am indeed writing something off: the idea you can pin him by newbie meta. Read it again, what I'm saying is that you can't attribute his mistakes purely to being a newbie. I'm not sweeping his mistakes away with a big 'oh-he's-a-newbie' broom. You just picked up on my misuse of the word 'newbie mistakes'.
 

asianaussie

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AA i believe leaving crumbs was a decent attempt. Maybe not the best move, but it was something i wanted to get out there slightly.

I like your case on MM because he is playing way to passive and that is something i don't like.

And I can agree about not trusting the ICs. To me Gheb and S2 are the most borderline people in this game imo.

:phone:
missed this post somehow

My point was that saying 'I'm town' is not indicative of being town, and therefore leaving town crumbs is also a rather meaningless thing to do - crumbs only matter if you happen to have a PR and are claiming it, indicating you didn't just make the role up, and since you claimed vanilla...

Do you think MM is lynchworthy just because of my case? It's barely a case, more the statement 'he doesn't act proactively'. I feel that you don't, since you aren't voting him. Seems like you're buddying me, to be honest. Also, what do you mean by 'borderline'?

Who do you think needs a look-over after you're gone?
 

o-Serin-o

I think 56 nights crazy
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Serin, what happens if Ori_bro flips town? If flips scum?
If Ori flips town, what would happen? I was never necessarily wrong for trying to make sure he was gone, but I was rather playing the hand I was dealt. And in this case, my hand played against his.

If he flips scum, nothing really has to be said. I'll elaborate on a scum flip later.

Ori Town - I would look into Serin, since he seemed nervous to vote Ori, and was trying to write off Ori by saying his wordplay was "abysmal"(#178).
I was never nervous about voting Ori, nor was I trying to write Ori off for his wording. Rather, it was something that caught my attention.

I agree that Serin would be needed to be looked at, but not for your reasons. I think it's just a little to rash of sorts. Compare Serin's "I'm confident Ori_bro is scum or being mediocre." with a post one day ago saying he didn't quite register Ori_bro as scum. I'm interested in what changed. What do you think?



What about people to look into?
 

o-Serin-o

I think 56 nights crazy
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Forgot to reply to the bottom quote.



Look at what you've posted. A quote that I made within the last 24hrs compared to a post I made while we were in our RVS. Of course I didn't have much of a case then, because not much had been accomplished or said.
 

Terywj [태리]

Charismatic Maknae~
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If Ori flips town, what would happen? I was never necessarily wrong for trying to make sure he was gone, but I was rather playing the hand I was dealt. And in this case, my hand played against his.

If he flips scum, nothing really has to be said. I'll elaborate on a scum flip later.
I was referring to people you would look into.

Look at what you've posted. A quote that I made within the last 24hrs compared to a post I made while we were in our RVS. Of course I didn't have much of a case then, because not much had been accomplished or said.
I implore you to reconsider those words.

Reason I'm not voting is because I don't really see Ori as scum, but rather an awkwardly playing town. I wouldn't necessarily keep him from being hammered, but I'm not willing to put my vote towards him anyways.
Vote: Ori_Bro

You've been making an awful lot of excuses as to why you haven't been posting. We understand that life can get in the way, but you have a common excuse as to why you don't or couldn't post.

The quote above is the fluffiest and doesn't have any substance as to why you take back everything as to why you thought I was scum. Not only that, but you never got back to replying as to when I asked you why you thought I WAS scum in the first place. Seems like you were trying to avoid the question.
The first quote was made 11/11 @ 2AM. The second quote was made 11/12 @ 3PM. We were well past RVS a whole two days ago.
 

o-Serin-o

I think 56 nights crazy
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I have a fos on ori and that's about it.

Ori because of the whole keeping his thoughts hidden thing.

For what it is (or isn't) worth:

FOS: Ori
Vote: Ori

Are we still in RVS? I find it hard to tell.
Sure, why not? I have nothing else to go on.

Vote: Ori
Actually, the reason I unvoted Ori was because I got him and Tery mixed up. I've got a null read on Tery. I was planning on putting a vote on Ori anyways.
Whoa. Major contradiction. That, or I'm just confused by your actions, Sokr.

> FOS Ori.
> Vote Ori, then ask if we are still on random voting stage.
> Votes Ori again
> States that he confused Ori for Tery, but planned on voting Ori anways.

Anyone else confused like I am?

People to look out for? Hrm thats interesting.

The people I'd look for if I was lynched or night killed would be Gheb, Sokr, and maybe S2.
 

o-Serin-o

I think 56 nights crazy
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> FOS Ori.
> Vote Ori, then ask if we are still on random voting stage.
> Votes Ori again *in a pressure vote*
> States that he confused Ori for Tery, but planned on voting Ori anways.
 

o-Serin-o

I think 56 nights crazy
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I'm ****ing up forreal now.

Related to Ori's quote:

Why do you think we'd have to look for Gheb, Sold, or Sokr in the first place, let alone if you were night-killed.
 

DtJ S2n

Stardog Champion
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This thread has gotten awfully active.

I just gotta say that I'll check in in the morning, I'm really tired right now and don't want to do this.
 

o-Serin-o

I think 56 nights crazy
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The first quote was made 11/11 @ 2AM. The second quote was made 11/12 @ 3PM. We were well past RVS a whole two days ago.
I really thought you were talking about when you first asked me if I had any reads on Ori or something, my apologies.

That was when I didn't notice a pattern in Ori's posting. So I guess my recognition of that made me change my opinions.
 

John2k4

The End of an Era
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Lol no. Am I still voting for him?

Unvote

Vote: Ori

Are we still in RVS? I find it hard to tell.
Didn't even know/remmber that he had voted for Serin as RVS, and therefore does an unvote and vote on Ori. From here, his votes are...weird...

Sokr vote history:
Serin(71),unvote(179),Ori_Bro(179),unvote(190),Ori_Bro(194)

He also FoS'ed Ori not long before voting him...(#159)


Why are your votes jumpy on the same person, Sokr?
 

asianaussie

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bumping this @Marathonman

Hm. Problem is you don't maintain any direction, you just engage in a small, often insignificant topic of discussion, which peters off. A good way to get into the game is to isolate somebody you find suspicious, find all their posts, and work out if your suspicions of them are warranted. With that in mind, do you mind doing so? Pick whoever you want, preferably not ori.

more later, maybe
 

Sokr

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Messages
202
Didn't even know/remmber that he had voted for Serin as RVS, and therefore does an unvote and vote on Ori. From here, his votes are...weird...

Sokr vote history:
Serin(71),unvote(179),Ori_Bro(179),unvote(190),Ori_Bro(194)

He also FoS'ed Ori not long before voting him...(#159)


Why are your votes jumpy on the same person, Sokr?
Honestly? I don't even know why i unvoted Ori. I'm derpy at the beginning of games.

:phone:
 

Sokr

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Sorry for the relative inactivity this weekend, i was beta testing for the old republic. will try and get caught up and produce some stuff tomorrow.

:phone:
 

DtJ S2n

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And I can agree about not trusting the ICs. To me Gheb and S2 are the most borderline people in this game imo.
I'd like to know what you mean by borderline and why we're the most borderline.

Something noteworthy is that he didn't just say vanilla town but also gave the name. (Noteworthy in the town read direction)
Nah it's not noteworthy. Scum is either already Betty Crocker products that seem town, or they have confirmed Betty Crocker products not in the game already for them to safely claim.

How would you feel about having Ori be the play toDay, Sold? Do you feel he is scum?
My bad. I'm alright with Ori being the play toDay. His lynch brings up a ton of information, and removes a huge question mark. I do think he's scum. I admittedly don't want to think he's scum but I can't deny the logic. So for all purposes, yes I do think he's scum.
 

Ori_bro

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Because he knows I'm town. Sold, the reason I have you as borderline is exactly what AA said. Just because they are ICs, don't believe them. It may be a bit trivial, but I like it.

I know you are a very strong player through your posts as well, so that is why I have you as borderline as well. You have some influence in this game, and that is kind of a scary thing.

That is also why I have Gheb on the border. His first post that has a lot of details and really goes into anything basically convinced this game that I am scum. That single post had me as close to death as you can get in mafia. That is a **** ton of influence and that is something to take note of.

:phone:
 

DtJ S2n

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Why don't you want to think he is scum?
How quickly and willing he was to step out of comfort zone and seperate himself from the crowd. Scum likes to blend in. But you also can say he did this because it's part of his playstyle/personality. I think he'd do that regardless of alignment.

I'm also a super softy and a sucker for Appeal to Emotion.
Because he knows I'm town. Sold,
Like for a split second when he said this I was like "damn maybe I'm entirely wrong here." It's kind of important to not listen to emotion during mafia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion
AtE, as it's commonly referred to, is generally thought of "anti-town" as it distracts from reasoning and logic.

Also having me as borderline for having influence isn't a good reason. Influence has nothing to do with alignment. It's how influence is used.
 

Terywj [태리]

Charismatic Maknae~
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I will also chip in that Ori_bro is just the best option since the flip provides us with as much as information as possible. We can adjust a proper response after the town flip. I'm looking at you, Serin & Gheb.

And if Ori is scum. Well. :awesome:
 

John2k4

The End of an Era
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Sold/Anyone, which would you rather do?:

Lynch Ori now, and see what he flips
-or-
Wait a few more days, gather more conversation, then lynch him a lot closer to the deadline
 

asianaussie

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He's basically a guaranteed lynch, since I doubt anyone voting him will have a change of heart - and even if they do, I'm prepared to vote him back to L-1. I want to get as much out of him as I can - any content he gives now is likely helpful to town, I'd say.

@Ori
What does 'borderline' mean? Does it mean you read them as null?
What do you think about Sokr jumping on and off your vote?
 

DtJ S2n

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Sold/Anyone, which would you rather do?:

Lynch Ori now, and see what he flips
-or-
I'd like Gheb to chime in before we lynch. Other than that the only real conversations to pursue are AA vs. Marathon and Ori responding more.
 

Ori_bro

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He's basically a guaranteed lynch, since I doubt anyone voting him will have a change of heart - and even if they do, I'm prepared to vote him back to L-1. I want to get as much out of him as I can - any content he gives now is likely helpful to town, I'd say.

@Ori
What does 'borderline' mean? Does it mean you read them as null?
What do you think about Sokr jumping on and off your vote?


Borderline to me is someone that could be either scum or town through their way of posting (content, judgement calls on certain individuals, consistency [how often they effectively express their thoughts], and if they just go with the crowd [imo, most scum will just agree with anyone to get things moving so they can get inhto the night phase earlier.)

Yes I know that sounds kind of contradictory because it kinda looks like how I played this out hahah :urg: and its definitely something I'm going to work on in future games.

I think its a bit strange to be honest. Why would you be so inconsistent about voting someone and actually mixing them up with someone else. It does put him back in my line of sight as scum.

AA, S2, and Tery what do you think of everyone's claim against me? You guys were/are the most hesitant to place a vote on me, and I want to know what you think of the entire situation and who do you feel besides me is the next best choice for lynch.

Also AA, I don't think you have posted anything on the matter other then "lets not rush into this lynch." Please correct me if I am wrong.


At the end of this, I still don't know what I could do to possibly convince you further that I am a ****ing town vanilla. I'm comfortable enough to claim the moment I was L-1/L-2 without hesitation.

I'm going to just vote for whom I believe is scum and leave my vote there.

VOTE: Sokr

Your inconsistency of voting me, unvoting me, and revoting me is very suspicious behavior. The inconsistency may come from you seeing your scummate put me on the spot or vote for me and tried to make some lame excuse to cover up why you had a sudden change of heart or "accidently" mistake me for Tery (I mean c'mon man the girl in my avi is 9001 times cuter /sarcasm and truth ;)) I haven't liked how you've played the game thus far and your inconsistency is really a nail in the coffin.

I hope people unvote me and choose someone who is guilty for wanting to tear apart this Kitchen.


/end Bisquick rant.
 

asianaussie

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im not voting you because by the time i woke up and got my thinking cap on you were already at L-1 lol...though i did have the opportunity to vote you right after gheb

things worked out though so it's ok

im fairly sure you've got the most connections, so to speak, and i feel your lynch is the most beneficial to town regardless of your alignment

next best lynch? idk to be honest, i know i have my vote on marathon but inactive/non-proactivity pushes aren't strong by any means and i don't think we'd get a lot from his lynch...maybe sokr? half for his flip-floppy behaviour (and his willingness to listen to my vote request so easily, which i think is odd), plus it's one inactive-ish gone, which is important in a 9-man game

hell i feel like hammering you because kpop is drivel (says the jpop addict who knows jpop is no better) - if it's not some korean then bleh

also, i have a feeling sold is gonna get unpackaged, baked and eaten tonight...
 

John2k4

The End of an Era
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True, AA - I also feel that if Sold/Gheb are town, there will be an IC killed toNight. :(

Another good reason to not hammer - in case one/both of them cannot make Twilight to post their reads before Night begins.
 

asianaussie

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too busy listening to supercell to care for anything korean

waiting for gheb's input - ICs seem to be suspicious of me this game, should be interesting to hear what he thinks
 

o-Serin-o

I think 56 nights crazy
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We are all in agreement that Ori is gonna be lynched, correct?

If so, look for an IC night-kill. I'll go by Ori's word on this and look towards ICs if one isn't lynched tonight.

But that's only if Ori flips town.

If Ori flips scum, look towards Sokr.
 

Gova

I'm goin' for it!
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NNID
Takicodos
1. Terywj (1) MM
2. Sokr (1) Ori
3. Serin ()
4. John2k4 ()
5. asianaussie (1) S2
6. Ori_Bro (4) Gheb, Sokr, John, Serin
7. MARaTHonmann (1) AA
8. Gheb ()
9. Sold2 ()

Not voting - Tery

With 9 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is November 17th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6)!
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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Thanks for doing nothing but throw advice at me. Notice I piled up quite a number of points against ori right after you first singled him out.
So right after I make a comprehensive, rather thorough case you vaguely collect some points that have either been directly brought up already or were redundant at that time because a better case already existed - yeah, if you think that's how you play mafia I feel the need to "do nothing but throw advice at you".

Where am I not looking closely into this game, past this Marathonman case, which I'm admitting isn't very strong and hence isn't something I'm pushing?
You just answered your own question - you make cases but conclude that they aren't worth pushing. Instead you add weak points to an already existing case for unclear reasons. Are we to assume that you're trying to achieve more than jjust to have an excuse as to why you joined the Ori wagon so conveniently? The ironic part about all this is that your points against Marathonman probably have enough merit to be worth going deeper into, which also would've gone along much better with what I've mentioned in my opening post: pursuing one's own ideas and not playing on somebody else's code. I maintain that you're doing the opposite of what you should be doing.

:059:
 

~ Gheb ~

Life is just a party
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That is also why I have Gheb on the border. His first post that has a lot of details and really goes into anything basically convinced this game that I am scum. That single post had me as close to death as you can get in mafia. That is a **** ton of influence and that is something to take note of.
How is this all attributed to me though? I can't choose for myself how much influence I have over the other players, I just do what I can do that I believe to be best for the town to win this game - if newbie players are easily impressed by this [going against the advice I myself posted right at the beginning of this game] why do you feel that I am still the one that needs to be scrutinized the most out of the people that are suspicious of you? I have been the clearest about why I want you lynched, I have put my thoughts out there on the line the most out of all the people who vote you and therefore I am risking the most by pushing for your lynch. You migh find it biased or even self-righteous of me to say this but shouldn't you be much more concerned with the people that remain shady and vague about why you should be lynched and just follow along than with the guy who's been so outspoken and open about it? It's not easy for me to influence people without taking chances but it's very easy for a newbie mafioso to pretend to be influenced by my words.

He's basically a guaranteed lynch, since I doubt anyone voting him will have a change of heart - and even if they do, I'm prepared to vote him back to L-1.
We are all in agreement that Ori is gonna be lynched, correct?
This is terrible. We still have 2 days left and the way you set it up you literally remove all of town's chances to lynch somebody else if deemed necessary. What purpose is this supposed to serve? Especially aussie's "I'll get him back to L-1 anyway" is really stupid and shows that getting somebody's [anybody's?] lynch through means more to him than finding the most beneficial solution for town toDay [which, after all I read, should be lynching Marathonman to him].

Unvote Vote asianaussie

:059:
 
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