Newbie 15 - Betty Crocker Mafia - Game Over!

[Sokr]

@Serin
Will you still waste your vote on me if we reach the end of toDay and you're the only one voting for me? Or can we count on you to make the smart decision and cast your vote where something is accomplished from it?

 

[DtJ S2n]

@Serin, so all in all what do you think of Marathonmann? You've left him in a kind of giant grey zone, unless you're like 100% sure those other two are scum in which case he'd obviously be town. You kind of avoided talking about Marathon =c.

Marathon really needs to get in here. He has some explaining to do.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I mean, we have time, but yes, the faster the better.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Sorry, I'll respond to questions tonight. Gonna be a little busy today.

 

[MARaTHonman]

Sorry for being absent, everyone. I'll be able to post tonight.

 

[Gova]

1. Terywj ()
2. Sokr (1) Serin
3. Serin ()
5. asianaussie ()
7. MARaTHonmann (2) Gheb, Sokr
8. Gheb ()
9. Sold2 ()

Not voting - Tery, AA, MM, S2

With 7 playing, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is November 30th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6)!

 

[MARaTHonman]

Asking someone a question just because they are first on the vote list? It seems to me as if he's just trying to get "scumhunting" looking questions out there to blend in to town.

It was random. I wanted to ask both players. I didn't think one was particularly scummy over the other, so I felt it didn't matter who I asked first. So I asked Tery for a random reason. And it wasn't a bad question. I find it difficult to get into a game, so I asked a question that I felt would get some discussion going.

Obviously because the person hasn't said anything to make him think he's scum. What is even the point of this question? Trying to push people's suspicion onto townies?

I said this:

Why don't you want to think he is scum?

in response to this:

My bad. I'm alright with Ori being the play toDay. His lynch brings up a ton of information, and removes a huge question mark. I do think he's scum. I admittedly don't want to think he's scum but I can't deny the logic. So for all purposes, yes I do think he's scum.

I found it very strange that Sold did not want to find Ori as scum, but he does think that he is scum. What reason would you have for not wanting to think someone is scum if you find them to be exactly that? It didn't make sense to me, so I asked him about it. How can you say that Ori didn't say anything to make Sold think he is scum? Sold said that he thought Ori was logically scum. How else could he come to that conclusion?

You haven't done this yet. Do it. Now.Or are you not concerned about reads because you know everyone's alignment and your only concern is to blend in and redirect people's FOS' to townies?

From What I've seen of Marathonman, I'd like him to die. Preferably soon if there aren't any better reads.

I start slow. And I haven't had time over the weekend to make a big read-through of the thread. Like I said, tonight I'll be able to.

 

[o-Serin-o]

I don't want everyone to think I'm 100% convinced that AA and Sokr are a scumteam, I just consider it a possibility. Sorry if I came off too hard about it.

@Serin
Will you still waste your vote on me if we reach the end of toDay and you're the only one voting for me? Or can we count on you to make the smart decision and cast your vote where something is accomplished from it?

Considering that only three people have voted, I'll consider just not voting unless someone makes a convincing enough statement.

@Serin, so all in all what do you think of Marathonmann? You've left him in a kind of giant grey zone, unless you're like 100% sure those other two are scum in which case he'd obviously be town. You kind of avoided talking about Marathon =c.

Marathon really needs to get in here. He has some explaining to do.

Marathonman is... uhhh.

**** it, lemme go and read what's been said, I haven't read over his **** that thoroughly, truth be told.

I'll get back to this question.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So you went from Sokr being scum based on his interactions with AA to them not necessarily being a scumteam at all, which is your main point against Sokr ... so what exactly are you suspecting him of? At the moment you're not being very clear - if you think Sokr is scum then you have to point out the "why" for you retracted your previous reasoning. But if you don't think he's scum then we're back to zero and you're ought to tell us who you think is scum and why. You're not going anywhere at the moment.

Unvote Vote Sold2

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Considering that only three people have voted, I'll consider just not voting unless someone makes a convincing enough statement.

Uhhh. Serin. Most people in this game are either inactive as balls or eyeing the fact that Marathonman is at L-2 already. Look at what Sokr presented on Marathonman, read through it, double check with your own reads, and then see if it justifies a vote on Marathonman or not.

 

[Sokr]

Tery, do you have an idea of where you're going place your vote?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Tery, do you have an idea of where you're going place your vote?

Got back from visiting my high school and stuffs. Let's do some work.

Marathonman has essentially been playing on the sidelines since the game started. Dropping a RVS vote on me (which is fine) and then failing to push or really do anything about it. Furthermore, a vast majority of his posts have been lacking in content or a desire / intent to actively scumhunt. I think the most "filled" posts were the ones where he misunderstood Asianaussie's, which I find in and of itself suspicious (properly defensive vs. overly defensive), especially coming from a slot which has been quiet all game.

Serin, I'd just add onto what Gheb said by saying that people answering questions directed at others' isn't necessarily a tell. People do it all the time. It just happens.

That said, I will not be placing a vote on Marathonman until I see some more discussion take place.

Hope this answers your question.

 

[Sokr]

Oh, i forgot about that post.

 

[Sokr]

I start slow. And I haven't had time over the weekend to make a big read-through of the thread. Like I said, tonight I'll be able to.

So, where is it?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Let's not forget that only 7 players are in the game at the moment. The game isn't actually as inactive as it seems - it's just that there aren't many people around to begin with.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I was referring to lack of posts from half the list--Asianaussie, Sold2, and Marathonman.

It's obvious this is a small game, I'm talking about the amount of discussion.

 

[Sokr]

It was random. I wanted to ask both players. I didn't think one was particularly scummy over the other, so I felt it didn't matter who I asked first. So I asked Tery for a random reason. And it wasn't a bad question. I find it difficult to get into a game, so I asked a question that I felt would get some discussion going.

...

I start slow. And I haven't had time over the weekend to make a big read-through of the thread. Like I said, tonight I'll be able to.

Wouldn't asking Serin the same question be ineffective after you've explained your reasoning behind it? Again, I see this as trying to get seemingly "Scumhunting" posts out there.

Again, where's that read? It's been more than 24 hours.

My overall assessment of you remains: You seem to post out random questions to attempt to look townie with "Scumhunting" questions. You're overall play looks very disconnected which I take as scummy. By disconnected I mean not following up on things, mainly posting when asked questions, and throwing in the occasional safe post to avoid looking inactive.

My vote stays.

 

[MARaTHonman]

To be honest, I'm looking at both of the ICs right now as being suspicious. Sold hasn't really posted a lot recently, and what he has posted has been him trying to get opinions out of people, but hasn't really pushed anyone himself. It looks like he's just posting questions and thoughts to get people to talk about each other.

Gheb switching his vote from me to Sold seems really weird, and very insincere. He voted for me, but didn't add anything to the argument other than encouraging Sokr. I think maybe his switch could be an attempt at buddying Sold.

 

[Sokr]

To be honest, I'm looking at both of the ICs right now as being suspicious. Sold hasn't really posted a lot recently, and what he has posted has been him trying to get opinions out of people, but hasn't really pushed anyone himself. It looks like he's just posting questions and thoughts to get people to talk about each other.

Gheb switching his vote from me to Sold seems really weird, and very insincere. He voted for me, but didn't add anything to the argument other than encouraging Sokr. I think maybe his switch could be an attempt at buddying Sold.

Is it not already widely accepted that one of the IC's is probably scum? Again with the posting of already said arguments. No town points from me on this post.

However, are you hinting that they aren't your scum partner? Or are you distancing yourself from them? Is it possible that your partner is actually AA? Or someone else I've overlooked? What I'm getting from you, Marathon, is that you seem to be nervous about giving yourself away and are acting on instruction from your scummate. So i wonder, who is your master? i have something else to say but i want to see how things go for a while.

 

[MARaTHonman]

Is it not already widely accepted that one of the IC's is probably scum? Again with the posting of already said arguments. No town points from me on this post.

However, are you hinting that they aren't your scum partner? Or are you distancing yourself from them? Is it possible that your partner is actually AA? Or someone else I've overlooked? What I'm getting from you, Marathon, is that you seem to be nervous about giving yourself away and are acting on instruction from your scummate. So i wonder, who is your master? i have something else to say but i want to see how things go for a while.

Have my arguments been said already? Just because other people suspect them doesn't mean my points are not valid. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it people suspect the ICs mostly for the night kill choice. I suspect them for other reasons.

 

[Sokr]

Have my arguments been said already? Just because other people suspect them doesn't mean my points are not valid. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it people suspect the ICs mostly for the night kill choice. I suspect them for other reasons.

Mind sharing those reasons? Or have you said them?

 

[MARaTHonman]

Yeah in #458

 

[DtJ S2n]

Gheb, I want you to drop all your cards. To make it entirely clear, I'm asking for your case on me, your current opinion of Marathon (and why your opinion changed to this), and who you believe my partner to be.

I'll bring my thoughts on everything into the open if you show me yours.

Pinky Swear

V/LA for Thanksgiving. I'll be available late tomorrow night or possibly the day after.

@Everyone else: Continue as normal. This is specifically for Gheb and shouldn't distract you from what you're doing. Lynch me if I don't follow up with my "bringing everything out into the open" part of the deal.

 

[Sokr]

@Sold

Lynch you? Why would you say that?

*thinking to self* could he be trying to save marathon? doesn't seem likely unless he thinks he'll be the next lynch.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb switching his vote from me to Sold seems really weird, and very insincere. He voted for me, but didn't add anything to the argument other than encouraging Sokr. I think maybe his switch could be an attempt at buddying Sold.

Buddying Sold ... by voting him? That's like the most reaching argument you could make to justify a Gheb - Stu scumteam. Buddying is the last thing you can accuse me of. Try harder.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, I want you to drop all your cards. To make it entirely clear, I'm asking for your case on me, your current opinion of Marathon (and why your opinion changed to this), and who you believe my partner to be.

1.) You've been playing as if you had no business trying to find scum and minimized your play into merely helping out the newbie players. In terms of scum hunting your contributions were almost non-existent and I could easily see you hiding behind a newbie scummate while using your IC status to remain safe. You've tried your hardest to keep yourself out of the discussion.

2.) My opinion on Marathonman hasn't changed, I still think he's a solid play. Keeping my vote on him right now would be quite redundant though for the majority already agreed that he can die. He's under pressure and he has respond to the first wave of accusations - right now my vote on him would accomplish literally nothing. I'd rather turn the focus on other people that could be scum and haven't been looked into enough [like you]. As it seems right now, newbie players tend to go with the consensus a lot still and I'd like to give them a chance to look into other things that might as well be crucial.

3.) Marathon / AA

 

[MARaTHonman]

Sokr, what do you think of my reasons for suspecting the ICs? Why do you think Sold is trying to save me?

Buddying Sold ... by voting him? That's like the most reaching argument you could make to justify a Gheb - Stu scumteam. Buddying is the last thing you can accuse me of. Try harder.

Yes, I should have said distancing, not buddying.

Gheb, I want you to drop all your cards. To make it entirely clear, I'm asking for your case on me, your current opinion of Marathon (and why your opinion changed to this), and who you believe my partner to be.

I'll bring my thoughts on everything into the open if you show me yours.

Pinky Swear

V/LA for Thanksgiving. I'll be available late tomorrow night or possibly the day after.

@Everyone else: Continue as normal. This is specifically for Gheb and shouldn't distract you from what you're doing. Lynch me if I don't follow up with my "bringing everything out into the open" part of the deal.

Do you feel like you are close to being lynched? This feels a lot like a nervous response. I'll have to think on it. And why haven't you given us your thoughts freely?

2.) My opinion on Marathonman hasn't changed, I still think he's a solid play. Keeping my vote on him right now would be quite redundant though for the majority already agreed that he can die. He's under pressure and he has respond to the first wave of accusations - right now my vote on him would accomplish literally nothing.

So do you think I'm the scummiest player? Wouldn't having your vote on a scummy player be a good thing, bringing the scum closer to a lynch? I can understand pursuing others at the same time, but moving your vote is bad imo.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Thanksgiving-itis.

Be back tomorrow.

 

[Sokr]

@Marathonman

Why are you asking me in particular?

And it's definitely a possibility. I currently have the two IC's at null. I still think you are scum and would make judgments on an IC pairing after I see your flip (assuming you get lynched).

By save you I was thinking that he could be trying to draw attention away from you. A noble ploy from scum and I admittedly really doubt that is the case.

 

[MARaTHonman]

I asked you because that seemed like a point point you held against me, that I posted already said arguments. But the arguments I posted were reasonable and hadn't been said.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So do you think I'm the scummiest player? Wouldn't having your vote on a scummy player be a good thing, bringing the scum closer to a lynch? I can understand pursuing others at the same time, but moving your vote is bad imo.

I don't think you're *the* scummiest player.

Also, if logic tells you that it's a good idea to pursue other things at the same time why is moving my vote a "bad thing imo"? You can say one or the other but saying both at the same time is contradictory.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I'm painfully late. Give me the time to do my stuff and be a good guy.

 

[Sokr]

I don't think you're *the* scummiest player.

Also, if logic tells you that it's a good idea to pursue other things at the same time why is moving my vote a "bad thing imo"? You can say one or the other but saying both at the same time is contradictory.

Who do you think is *the* scummiest player Gheb?

 

[DtJ S2n]

Well Gheb, that's not exactly what I wanted to hear, but it makes me feel better about you? I'm going to go ahead and ignore the whole me making a defense part.

I'll go ahead and claim so that we can move everything forward. I'm fruit gushers (wow!), Town Tracker! There's no reason for me not to claim at this moment, now that we've gotten everything all good and thrown out on the floor. Last night, I saw Marathonmann visiting John2k4. Obviously, without a doubt, Marathon is scum. Specifically the Watcher-Immune scum. That is unless someone wants to counterclaim me.

Now then, we have Marathon as confirmed scum. I've gotta go ahead and pick his partner though, since that's what's important now.

1. I was getting a suspicion of a Gheb/Marathon team. It makes a lot of sense. Day 1 Gheb made a late switch onto AA, who was pushing a lot of Marathon. Gheb's late game in general really hurt my opinion of him. I'm not going to blame him for his original push on Ori, even though Ori ended up being town. We had a well established lynch pick that he just jumped off of, and didn't seem to mind that the momentum was shifting away from Ori. Since it was a jump onto AA, he could have wanted to shift the lynch into AA quickly to draw suspicion there, since AA was harassing Marathon. I believe Gheb knows how dangerous it can be for ANY town, let alone a town full of newbies, to go into the last couple days of a day phase an unclear lynch. Come to hammertime, Gheb commented that Ori deserved to be hammered for a specific post of his, but Gheb himself didn't vote Ori then.

Maybe it's just because Gheb knows better than to jump the gun or knows how to not look conspicuous, but his "case" on me is rather mild and he's not pushing it particularly hard. I made my previous pinky swear with the thought that Gheb was most probably scum, and I believed scum Gheb to push more violently than what he did. I don't know.

2. Tery. Right now I'm extremely tired and all of this is coming purely from notes and the top of my head, so I can't provide a compelling case. However, I would say his recent behavior is very flakey-sketchy, entirely fitting if it was his partner on the chopping block. His "I'll vote for Marathon later" is a very non-committal thing to say and easy for him to bus his partner as if he supported the lynch from the very start. I don't particularly remember what his actions D1 were, but if I can't remember what he was doing then, then that's probably a bad sign.

I need to look into both of these theories more as well as see what all everyone else has to say after seeing my post. I'll do so later. Don't lynch Marathon yet. We can't go into the night phase quite yet, there' still things to be said!

@mod, Vote count and stuff.

 

[Gova]

1. Terywj ()
2. Sokr (1) Serin
3. Serin ()
5. asianaussie ()
7. MARaTHonmann (1) Sokr
8. Gheb ()
9. Sold2 (1) Gheb

Not voting - Tery, AA, MM, S2

With 7 playing, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline is November 30th at 11:59 PM CST (GMT-6)!

 

[John2k4]

Good luck, townfriends!
[/rule2]

 

[asianaussie]

a bit of time inbetween study sessions

Well ok, that's a bombshell dropped.

Gheb does not seem like scum. I'm assuming all advicey posts he makes are IC-motivated.

Spoiler

On that note Gheb, I'm sorry I'm just tacking points onto someone else's case again, but I honestly have very little time to do anything but skim.

Regarding the Tery connection, MM had his vote on him for most of D1 for some reason...

No particular reason. It's still on from RVS, I think. Just never took it off

No reason I'm sticking to Tery, I just haven't taken my vote off.

Dropping a RVS vote on me (which is fine) and then failing to push or really do anything about it.

...or not. He also specifically went out of his way to say

Unvote just to be clear that I don't think Tery is scum. It seems to be confusing people.

In essence, stanceless the entirety of D1, letting Ori's apparent lynch flow and not committing (completely forget what he thought of the lynch) until it looked like momentum could be shifted onto me, whereupon he went on the attack.

Additionally:

Uhhh. Serin. Most people in this game are either inactive as balls or eyeing the fact that Marathonman is at L-2 already. Look at what Sokr presented on Marathonman, read through it, double check with your own reads, and then see if it justifies a vote on Marathonman or not.

Though he barely contributed to anything against Marathon, he's very, very aware of the votes on him. I don't think he said much about Marathon in general D1, correct me if I'm wrong.

It's perfectly possible Tery isn't scum, especially because noticing connections like this often happens when you view two people with tunnel vision - Serin's post on me + Sokr for example, which was actually very solid (aside from the fact that it's wrong about me, at least). For this reason, I think Serin is town, genuinely scumhunting, if a bit overconfident.

Food for thought. Can't analyse much because of study, the deadline falls on the day my exams finish (1st Dec here, but for the US that's still the 30th).

V/LA for another half week.

My English in this post is bleh, but I don't have the energy to really look back.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Stu, I don't see why you'd need to claim =/
Marathon lynch wouldn't have been a problem and preventing your own lynch wasn't really an issue as you never were the main suspect of the town as a whole. I mean, it does make life easier toDay but you have to aware that you're like the guaranteed night kill now...

Unvote

Weird how we both had each other as possible scumpartner for Marathon though, I guess we were both looking for the same things just to get the wrong results. Tery's wishy-wash isn't really something that alarms me anymore but in the context of Marathon being semi-confirmed scum I can see him as a scumbuddy but I still think AA's weak cases reek of distancing more than legit scumhunting. I wouldn't be surprised if both of them - as not quite newbies - had talked out some distance tactic that was poorly executed. Then again the same could've happened if Tery was Marathon's scumbuddy.
Don't see how me attacking AA draws a connection to Gheb - Marathon, I still think AA is scum, so it's not some situational attack I made to "protect" anybody. I'd still like to see him dead.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Who do you think is *the* scummiest player Gheb?

Marathon / AA

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Good post aussie, can't really tell whether you or tery is Marathon's scumbuddy. I'll read up on both of you from D1