Newbie 13: Organization XIII Mafia ~Town Wins!~

[th3kuzinator]

Kooz that's wine. Plenty of people have self voted: scum, town, new, experienced. It's not some advanced technique.

Kind of is, though.

 

[th3kuzinator]

lol no it doesn't. I'm not directing cop, you are lmao.

I'm not. Can you read?

I'm not trying to spin it as anything it isn't. It is what it is, and that is anti-town.

I completely disagree.

That was more than two cents. "the choice is yours cop but you should listen to me because im an IC and it will be worth your while but yeah you dont have to if you don't want to :o" is how I see it.

I never ever told the cop to follow me because I'm an IC, or anything close to that sort.

I gave them a template for who I wanted copped which is analogous to giving my three biggest scum reads. I don't like what you're trying to do here. You know I'm not forcing anyone to do anything and if the cop agrees with me he'll investigate one of my targets.

Again, instead of whining that I'm forcing newbies to listen to me against their will (which is so wrong I don't even) how about you give your thoughts on the picks if you have such a problem with what I'm doing.

 

[th3kuzinator]

As has been discussed earlier, if you flip scum that would basically clear Phoenix. If you flipped town, Phoenix could be town or scum.

Not so much on anyone else I think. :\

Oh but there's so much more than this.

@Garg and BPC: Thoughts on a wagon switch?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Honestly, I think you have a point. I can say that I'm town all day, but you guys can't know for sure until a flip. I can't think of anyone other than me who could give info on connections, other than SW.

Panta is suspicious, but he doesn't have too many connections to anybody. Same for everyone else, really.

If I flipped scum, what would that mean to you guys? Or what if I flip town (which I will)?

And would you be willing to be the D1 lynch assuming town does get plenty of information?

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Zen: Thoughts on Phoenix, for the 5th time.

 

[Lore]

That's the question.

I also just realized that an SW lynch would reveal a decent bit. She was defended by several players and attacked as well, so it could reveal a bit. Of course, she isn't THAT scummy, but there's still a chance that we might get lucky and hit scum.

By the way, do you mind answering my question? I would love to know what a flip would reveal.

 

[th3kuzinator]

A scum flip would clear 3 players and incriminate another pretty heavily.

A town flip would clear 2 players and give me a few general leads as to where I want to go toMorrow.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Again if we were switching off you we'd be switching to find scum, not hunt inactives/look for people with connections.

I suggest you make finding scum your #1 priority right now.

 

[Lore]

But WHICH players would be cleared or incriminated?

And I already said who else could give at least some info. I really don't have anything to add...

Maybe Garg?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I gave them a template for who I wanted copped which is analogous to giving my three biggest scum reads. I don't like what you're trying to do here. You know I'm not forcing anyone to do anything and if the cop agrees with me he'll investigate one of my targets.

Kuzi, I think I might have to slightly agree with Zen that you telling the cop what you think he should vote could be taken the wrong way by a newbie. Since you're an IC, if I were the cop, I might trust you're judgement more-so that anyone else's, even my own, and, even if I didn't agree, I might investigate the way you had said to, just because I didn't know who else to vote. I know that's not what you're trying to do, and I know that most people wouldn't take it that way, but there are some that just legitimately don't know what to do or who they want to investigate. But, I wouldn't take it so far as Zen is taking it, because, if the PRs were smart, they'd choose who they wanted to choose, taking your ideas into account but ulitmately making their own choices.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Werekill: Why would I announce that in thread so they can just get NKd?

@Sang: I understand what you're saying but think of it this way. If you were the cop and you trusted me/had a town read on me, you investigating one of my reads may have taken precedence of your own and for good reason. True I probably have better analysis skills than the newbies and going with my picks, if you trust me being town, would be a smart option. But now think about it on the flip side. Say you're the cop and you don't trust me/have a scum read on me. You wouldn't follow what I've said because you'd fear I'd try to mislead you (or at least I'd hope to god that's what you'd do). So this argument doesn't boil down to whether or not I'm directing anyone. It boils down to whether or not the Cop trusts me or not and is willing enough to follow up on the reads I've proposed, which is entirely his decision.

If the cop doesn't trust me or has a scum read on me and still follows my advice then he's doing it wrong.

 

[th3kuzinator]

But WHICH players would be cleared or incriminated?

And I already said who else could give at least some info. I really don't have anything to add...

Maybe Garg?

I'm asking you to re-read and give me scumpicks based on thread evidence, not information flips.

@Sang: Where is your head @ currently wrt toDays lynch?

 

[Lore]

@Cop: Actually... I say investigate Kuz, if you can't think of anyone else. Clearing him or finding that he's scum could be useful in the long run. He's an IC, which means that if he gets an innocent you can trust his judgement, and it also means that a guilty would get a scum that wouldn't normally have too much heat placed on him.

Btw, since we have a doc, could we possibly turn this game into a Follow the Cop?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I'm not entirely convinced that lynching werekill will give us a mafia flip at the moment, but I still trust him the very least. I appreciate that he has been posting more and has been adding to the conversation (unlike some others which I will come back to), but he still seems scummy to me. I don't think we should do a wagonswitch, regardless.

Now, this part you didn't ask me about but I think it does pertain to some things. First of all, I'd really appreciate it if people that have been inactive start posting. I've said this before but I'm still unhappy. IDK if they're just not posting because they don't care since it's just a newbie game (which for some like me it really does matter since we can get better from this) or if it's because they're scum and don't want to reveal it. For one, Zen hasn't answered your questions. He has, though, sort of attacked you (for lack of a better word) over certain things. Also, ShadowMoth has not posted, even after a prod. I'm not sure if something happened to him or he just unnexpectedly went V/LA but... meh. Phoenix hasn't posted much either. He said a bit pertaining to my quotes and unvoted me but, since then, he's gone dark. This isn't really incriminating people unless they continue this way until the end of the game.

 

[Lore]

I'm asking you to re-read and give me scumpicks based on thread evidence, not information flips.

@Sang: Where is your head @ currently wrt toDays lynch?

Well, I've pretty much already done that. Panta, SW, and you in that order, which I said already. I also said that Panta is the one farthest from a null read.

Heck, why not add Garg inbetween SW and you. He's been decently suspicious.

 

[Gova]

1.) Shadow Moth ()
2.) SangfroidWarrior (1) SM
3.) Panta ()
4.) pheonix561 ()
5.) gargaglione ()
6.) Budget Player Cadet_ (1) Panta
7.) Werekill (3) SangfroidWarrior, Gargaglione, BPC
8.) Zen ()
9.) th3kuzinator ()
Not voting - phoenix, Werekill, Zen, Kuz

With 9 playing, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is July 24th at 11:59 PM EST (GMT-5).

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Btw, since we have a doc, could we possibly turn this game into a Follow the Cop?

It's a randomized setup, meaning there could be 2 of the following: Cop, Deputy, Doctor, or Nurse. This being said, that's why I was nervous over a claim because, if the cop claimed, there might not be a Doctor to protect him. That is, if there is a cop. It's confusing to me (since I'm used to knowing the rolls included in the game) but there's no guarantee there's a cop or doctor.

 

[Lore]

I honestly think that at this point we should pick an inactive and shoot. It's only D1, and it would pick off a liability.

@SW: Good point. Oh well, we'll just have to wait and see.

@Mod: how many prods does it take to be mk'd, and how many have you recently sent? This is a bit ridiculous.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Cop me if you want, I could care less.

Waste of a Night phase in my opinion + I'm pretty active in thread and can easily give you reads off of play. Copping would be a great way to get concrete reads on the players who have not posted and thus can't be judged from their play in thread, but if you really don't trust me then go for it. If anything it will put everyone's suspicions to rest that I am trying to backstab them by playing too helpful or too townie. I know its paranoia but damn I hate that reasoning so much.

 

[Xivii]

Also, would scumWerekill attack me at that opportune time where I could have hammered him on a whim? Attack the swing vote at L-1? That's like putting a nail in your coffin. Reads that he actually thinks I'm scum and wanted pressure on me after he flipped. Too inefficient of a move as scum knowing that the only way he would survive that day was with my support and the fact that his scum flip would just further clear me?

Nah

Hmm yeah I agree with this.

 

[Gargaglione]

@kuz
What's a wagon switch?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Switching off a wagon (basically a player with votes on him) to a different wagon (so basically going for a new target).

 

[Gargaglione]

@kuz
... Wait, who wagon switched???... Sorry for all the questions :/

 

[Xivii]

Kind of is, though.

Nah. I see new scum do it all the time on Epic Mafia. I believe I've seen new scum do it on here too. Fragbait from the DR iirc. It's a natural reaction for both alignments. When you're backed into a corner there isn't much to do. Werekill is a smart dude and a Role Player. I wouldn't put it past him to look noncaring about his lynch.

I'm not. Can you read?



I completely disagree.



I never ever told the cop to follow me because I'm an IC, or anything close to that sort.

I gave them a template for who I wanted copped which is analogous to giving my three biggest scum reads. I don't like what you're trying to do here. You know I'm not forcing anyone to do anything and if the cop agrees with me he'll investigate one of my targets.

Again, instead of whining that I'm forcing newbies to listen to me against their will (which is so wrong I don't even) how about you give your thoughts on the picks if you have such a problem with what I'm doing.

Why would I do the very thing I'm debating against? <--Rhetoric
Look I'm just trying to help them play the right way. I don't think you're scum from this. PR directing (which once again you stated yourself) just isn't pro-town. In a small game like this, not as much damage could result, but in larger, more variable games you know how it gets.

I just want to set an example so that everyone comes out of this with a strong sense of the brownie way to play.

@Zen: Thoughts on Phoenix, for the 5th time.

I swear you only asked me once. I ignored it because I was going to get to it, but I forgot to mention it in my previous post.

I think he's scummy, and I want to wagon switch to him. His inactivity is bad for one, his reasoning against sang I didn't like, and I don't like he is trying to pass off d1 as some crapshot random lynch. One of his posts, probably his most recent, he came in saying how he forgot about the game which I found kind of weird.

@Cop: Actually... I say investigate Kuz, if you can't think of anyone else. Clearing him or finding that he's scum could be useful in the long run. He's an IC, which means that if he gets an innocent you can trust his judgement, and it also means that a guilty would get a scum that wouldn't normally have too much heat placed on him.

Btw, since we have a doc, could we possibly turn this game into a Follow the Cop?

This is what this leads to, Kooz. Werekill, even if we were sure there was a cop, directing the cop to Kooz could simply get him NKed he is town. Then cop's investigation becomes completely useless. This is why we shouldn't direct the cop and let them do their thing, so scum don't know who to Night Kill.

Hmm yeah I agree with this.

I agree too, Zen.

Werekill, join me in the Pheonix force wagon.

Vote: Pheonix

 

[Gargaglione]

OH OK you were asking about Zen wagon switching to Pheonix.
I do not know much at all of Pheonix, and do not know where to stand on this. It is a very odd strategy, and does seem kinda scummy though

 

[Xivii]

Actually he was just asking about wagon switching in general. I just now decided I want to lynch Pheonix.

 

[Gargaglione]

In that case... Well, I've never played mafia before and I don't really know what wagon switching usually results in. I don't like Werekill or Pheonix, so i don't see much wrong in voting on pheonix. Come to think of it, Pheonix actually seems more suspect to being mafia since he's not doing much at all...

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Zen: But didn't you say that you thought Moth and myself were the most suspicious players? Since it doesn't appear you want to lynch me I'm curious as to why you're going Phoenix over Moth.

 

[Xivii]

Oh yeah man I keep forgetting to post stuff. I'm in so many games.

I have nothing really to base a lynch on one of you two. Smoth possibly, but I'd like to see more. As for why I found you two suspicious, your interaction was weird. Seemed like scumbuddy to me, but that's not enough.

btw I hadn't read up until my larger post. I skimmed, saw your PR post and that's it.

 

[Xivii]

@Garg, if that's the case, care to join me on his wagon?

 

[th3kuzinator]

So you're indifferent to either Phoenix or Moth going?

 

[Xivii]

No, clearly I want Smoth for another round as I said.

 

[Gargaglione]

Yessir, I do. Unvote: Werekill, Vote: Pheonix

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Wait, why are we lynching Phoenix now? I know the reads on Werekill/Panta are weak, but we have literally nothing on Phoenix. Just sayin'. Has he been prodded?

Is it possible to get an extension on that 24th deadline?

 

[Lore]

Werekill is a smart dude and a Role Player. I wouldn't put it past him to look noncaring about his lynch.

I think he's scummy, and I want to wagon switch to him. His inactivity is bad for one, his reasoning against sang I didn't like, and I don't like he is trying to pass off d1 as some crapshot random lynch. One of his posts, probably his most recent, he came in saying how he forgot about the game which I found kind of weird.

Werekill, join me in the Pheonix force wagon.

Vote: Pheonix

Where have you seen me before? o_0

And since I already said that I don't mind lynching an inactive, I'll just say why the hell not and Vote: Phoenix

 

[th3kuzinator]

So just like that your read in Werekill changed, Zen?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

In that case... Well, I've never played mafia before and I don't really know what wagon switching usually results in. I don't like Werekill or Pheonix, so i don't see much wrong in voting on pheonix. Come to think of it, Pheonix actually seems more suspect to being mafia since he's not doing much at all...

Sure, Phoenix has been inactive, but so was werekill until we started saying that he might be mafia and then he started coming into this game. If you think that both werekill and phoenix are scummy, which one do you think is the most scummy? I mean, what more would the town gain from phoenix's lynch that we couldn't learn from werekill's?

To me, I think wagon switching is bad at the moment. Although phoenix was scummy for that bit and has been absent for a while, so has Moth. Should we kill Moth then too? I don't think so. Although he seems scummy to me, we should let them play a bit. If they're in other games and forget about this one too much they should just drop out and let somebody replace them.

This isn’t directed at anyone, I just wanted to talk this out. At the moment, I still think werekill is the scummiest just because he suspects everybody that has been active (me, Kuzi, garg, and panta) and says that he can’t get a read on anyone else but is willing to vote for phoenix? I realize it’s to get rid of an inactive, but it’s still suspicious. He says if Panta flips scum, look at Kuzi. If he flips town look at me and Garg. I still don’t trust Garg just because he’s so willing to change wagons just because Zen pretty much convinced him to (no offense Garg, that’s just what I see). Plus, I agree with Zen that his play is very inconsistent. One minute he’s upset that he’s being lynched and the next he doesn’t care. Also, when he votes for someone, it’s always some odd reason that seems like it’s stretching.

@Zen. Why did you change your lynch from Werekill to Phoenix? I don’t understand it. Your reasoning is that Phoenix is inactive, he made a reason against me you don’t like, he’s trying to pass of D1 as a random lynch, and that he forgot about the game. Well, I’m not defending him here because I do slightly suspect him, but there are a few holes in that logic I want to inquire about. First of all, aren’t there plenty of inactives in this game? If so, why target Phoenix specifically, because Moth has done some scummy stuff as well and hasn’t even responded after a prod, and yet you still want him in the game. Also, isn’t D1 slightly a random lynch? I mean, we have no concrete proof to go off of. And, as for forgetting about the game, didn’t you have other games to take care of as well? If you give me enough reasons and werekill makes a good claim for himself, I might give thought into changing my vote. But, right now it doesn’t seem all that likely.

 

[th3kuzinator]

^ Pretty much a carbon copy of what I was thinking.

Zen's reasoning for Phoenix specifically is very shoddy and the moment Werekill sees another option that isn't his lynch he jumps for it without explaining why except that he would be find with lynching an inactive. Garg too which I find strange because I don't seem to remember him mentioning that he previously had problems with Phoenix.

 

[Xivii]

Where have you seen me before? o_0

And since I already said that I don't mind lynching an inactive, I'll just say why the hell not and Vote: Phoenix

Haha my username may have been different. Zensei, or Exn, or Jubei. You invited me to that one RP site as well as the games you and Tery were hosting in dgames.

So just like that your read in Werekill changed, Zen?

Yes. It boggles me that you're so confused right now. It seemed just a moment ago you were trying to convince me he was town. If you think he's town, you shouldn't lynch him just for connections. I'd still lynch him though if you think he is scum.

@Sang: It's only random if you don't try. It seemed to me like Pheonixes excuse to sit out of discussion. Furthermore, d1 isn't random because scum are pushing for a townie lynch. And that's useful for later on.

I never forgot about this game, I simply didn't post here. Pheonix again set up an excuse for being inactive. Which I don't buy.

As for why I'm ok with Smoth for another day, he has at least posted some reasonable thoughts. Pheonix has not.

 

[#HBC | J]

Shadow Moth has requested replacement.

Because of this, a slight deadline extension may be made once I talk with my co-mod.