New York legalizes gay marriage.

[Lore]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...state_after_senate_passes_historic_bill_.html

 

[Spelt]

...And then next year they're gonna pass another bill nullifying this one.

 

[theeboredone]

Well, I'm glad this happened. While I personally do not approve of gay marriage, I think it should be allowed given what this country is supposed to stand for.

 

[Pluvia]

Oddly New York outpaced even us on legalising this. I doubt it'll last for you lot though, there's ironically little freedom for people in the country that's supposed to be the most free in the world.

But still, good on you New York.

 

[Grandeza]

My state is da bess.

 

[Princess Diana]

Oh I was overjoyed when I heard this news! It is such an amazing thing, but very saddening at the same time that such a basic human right was denied in New York and still is denied in the majority of the United States. Not only that but 30 states have laws in place that specifically outlaw same sex marriage, it's very disheartening to know that people can be filled with such ignorance and hatred and are basically going against the very principles that this country is founded on.

I do hope that the Supreme Court does something about this and we do not have to painstakingly wait for each state to finally overturn their laws, especially when states like Mississippi have voted with overwhelming majorities against gay marriage.

There really shouldn't even be such a large debate about it, one group of people should not have to fight for a right that the other gets without having to do anything. I really do hope this law is not nullified soon or I will have lost a lot of faith in this country.

 

[frotaz37]

The founding fathers were slave owners who beat, *****, and murdered countless innocent people.

This country wasn't founded on lollipops and rainbows.

 

[Princess Diana]

The founding fathers were slave owners who beat, *****, and murdered countless innocent people.

This country wasn't founded on lollipops and rainbows.

I wasn't stating that the founding fathers were upstanding citizens, that is obviously not the case. They believed several things that are simply not acceptable in today's society such as that Caucasians were genetically superior to people of African descent and several other twisted things.

However the ideals that the country is founded on have been consistently interpreted to be inclusive, accepting, and tolerant. It really shouldn't be considered exceedingly kind, generous, or lollipops and rainbows to give a group of people who are being denied basic rights those rights.

 

[CAOTIC]

it'll be decades until australia legalizes this.

 

[DoH]

 

[1048576]

Oh I was overjoyed when I heard this news! It is such an amazing thing, but very saddening at the same time that such a basic human right was denied in New York and still is denied in the majority of the United States. Not only that but 30 states have laws in place that specifically outlaw same sex marriage, it's very disheartening to know that people can be filled with such ignorance and hatred and are basically going against the very principles that this country is founded on.

I do hope that the Supreme Court does something about this and we do not have to painstakingly wait for each state to finally overturn their laws, especially when states like Mississippi have voted with overwhelming majorities against gay marriage.

There really shouldn't even be such a large debate about it, one group of people should not have to fight for a right that the other gets without having to do anything. I really do hope this law is not nullified soon or I will have lost a lot of faith in this country.

Patience. If the last 5000 years are any indication, the anti-gay culture will change eventually. The us vs. them mentality will break down, and people will see gays as neighbors or cousins, not as those weirdos on Bravo TV. At first I was pessimistic that it would take place within my lifetime, but now I'm not so sure.

 

[frotaz37]

However the ideals that the country is founded on have been consistently interpreted to be inclusive, accepting, and tolerant.

The history of the USA says otherwise. Inclusive, accepting, and tolerant are the ideals people have claimed to have while their actual ideals are hypocrisy, greed, racism, and violence. This is what the USA was founded on, even if it was under the guise of tolerance.

It really shouldn't be considered exceedingly kind, generous, or lollipops and rainbows to give a group of people who are being denied basic rights those rights.

No, it shouldn't. It really shouldn't.
But unfortunately it is, because our country is run by terrible people who don't believe in being inclusive, accepting, or tolerant.
I mean, what kind of country votes on whether or not to continue oppressing people? It's some sick perversion of democracy that has no business existing.

 

[eschemat]

come to Canada if you really want to live in a liberal country

 

[Jasou]

Patience. If the last 5000 years are any indication, the anti-gay culture will change eventually. The us vs. them mentality will break down, and people will see gays as neighbors or cousins, not as those weirdos on Bravo TV. At first I was pessimistic that it would take place within my lifetime, but now I'm not so sure.

i hope so, thats how i feel it will go down eventually

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I don't truly understand the benefits of gay marriage, can someone explain them to me?

 

[Luigitoilet]

I don't truly understand the benefits of gay marriage, can someone explain them to me?

The same benefits as straight marriage, I believe.

 

[1048576]

Well for one, there are several legal rights conferred only to married couples, such as the ability to file joint tax returns, widow benefits, and spousal confidentiality.

For two, there's the hope that calling it marriage instead of civil union will spark a cultural shift whereby a layperson will stop treating two men or two women who love each other as something fundamentally different from the bond shared between a man and a woman.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

IDK, I guess when I think about it, I'm not a big fan of the idea of marriage overall. Heterosexual marriages already have a high enough divorce rate and is now really just a legal way of saying we're together. Marriage used to be a sacred institution involving *gasp* religion. It's now just government crap. The problem is that we still have that religious stigma, which is why we people still have the problem with homosexual marriage.

 

[1048576]

I agree that in an ideal world there would be no govt. involvement in marriage. It would be a strictly religious ceremony. legal benefits for none > legal benefits for all > legal benefits for some. However, I think that we're a long way from that goal, and in the meantime, marriage for all is better than marriage for heterosexuals.

 

[Spelt]

inb4 prop 8 thread v2

 

[Teran]

So hey OP does that mean we can get married now?

 

[Mic_128]

It would be a strictly religious ceremony

Except that that would still bar same-sex marrages.

 

[Evil Eye]

I live in Canada : crossarms:

I don't really know why you guys are outpacing us on weed legalizin' though

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Glad to hear it, let's go 43 (44?) other states, get on this ****.

 

[1048576]

Except that that would still bar same-sex marrages.

No, no. You're wrong. Gayness is not mutually exclusive with all practicioners of all religions.

 

[safehaven]

im gonna marry my ipod

anyone who says i cant is obviously bigoted and denying me freedom
because thats obviously what freedom is

also i have the freedom to sell child porn on the internet. i enjoy it so it should be free

and im not implying any relation between gay marriage and child porn, or gay people and ipods, or even myself and a gay person. anyone who thinks i am is a bigot. anyone who thinks child porn is wrong is also a bigoted dogmatic narrow minded ****.

AMERICA

 

[1048576]

I assume you're trolling, but your opinion is not exclusive to you, so lemme take the bait:

I don't think anyone would care if you married your IPod. Of course, you'd need like a bazillion lawyers to be able to claim it as a dependent, and spousal confidentiality wouldn't do you much good, haha.

Child pornography puts your right to enjoy prurient images of children against those children's right to not be exploited. Ultimately and rightly, our society has deemed the latter more important and more fundamental.

With gay marriage, it's our right to enjoy equality vs... what, exactly? I got nothing.

 

[safehaven]

its not exploitation. children want to get paid too for getting naked, just like adults. its a right to be a porn actor

it was kinda troll but honestly if u act like everything is for equality, you define equality in terms that no one actually follows or wants.

like why dont ants get rights like other animals? are they equal, or is it discrimination based on complexity? its not fair. ants are just as good, complexity means nothing

the point is this is a dark road which has no real end

basically if u give someone the right to marry, u should give them the right to be a porn actor. why is that not a right? where is the right to marriage from?

also america was not founded on freedom of equality, it was founded on people wanting to have their own personal religious rules that were different from others. the us was founded on the principle of consent of the governed.

basically if u think this country was founded for "equal rights," then either u are ignorant or some other type of fuking stupid

i still dont get why gay people want to be in an institution established in steeped in a church that says gay sex is a sin ROFL.

why not be fuking inventive. if i was gay and proud of it i sure as hell wouldnt want anything to do with marriage as it is. visitation and filing rights for civil unions, get a better name for civil unions, and at least youve done something, rather than *****ing about gay rights, as if marriage is a right and as if people dont like u cause ur gay.

face it, people wont like u cause youre white, or straight, or black, or have blonde hair or are from korea. i actually really like gay people. I think theyre cool in general, except the fuking tools taht go to the gay rallies. omg those people are fuking rude... living in washington dc gave me too many bad experiences with "politically active" ******** gay people

tl:dr
why is marriage a right. and why arent other things? like if im 18 i cant have sex with a 16 year old. what the f

 

[GreenKirby]

im gonna marry my ipod

anyone who says i cant is obviously bigoted and denying me freedom
because thats obviously what freedom is

also i have the freedom to sell child porn on the internet. i enjoy it so it should be free

and im not implying any relation between gay marriage and child porn, or gay people and ipods, or even myself and a gay person. anyone who thinks i am is a bigot. anyone who thinks child porn is wrong is also a bigoted dogmatic narrow minded ****.

AMERICA

There's ALWAYS one who pull a slippery slope fallacy. ALWAYS!

I don't truly understand the benefits of gay marriage, can someone explain them to me?

The same benefits a straight married couple gets. A lot:


"On the order of 1,400 legal rights are conferred upon married couples in the U.S. Typically these are composed of about 400 state benefits and over 1,000 federal benefits. Among them are the rights to:
- joint parenting;
- joint adoption;
- joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents);
- status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent;
- joint insurance policies for home, auto and health;
- dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support;
- immigration and residency for partners from other countries;
- inheritance automatically in the absence of a will;
- joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment;
- inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate);
- benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare;
- spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home;
- veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns;
- joint filing of customs claims when traveling;
- wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children;
- bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child;
- decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her;
- crime victims' recovery benefits;
- loss of consortium tort benefits;
- domestic violence protection orders;
- judicial protections and evidentiary immunity;
- and more....

Most of these legal and economic benefits cannot be privately arranged or contracted for. For example, absent a legal (or civil) marriage, there is no guaranteed joint responsibility to the partner and to third parties (including children) in such areas as child support, debts to creditors, taxes, etc. In addition, private employers and institutions often give other economic privileges and other benefits (special rates or memberships) only to married couples. And, of course, when people cannot marry, they are denied all the emotional and social benefits and responsibilities of marriage as well."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/mar_bene.htm

 

[safehaven]

its not a slippery slope and its not a fallacy

dumb it down: fallacies use untrue premises to build arguments


i feel like im the only one on smashboards who has actually completed a single logic course, cause some people just have no idea what a fallacy is and when its being used

 

[Spelt]

its not a slippery slope and its not a fallacy

dumb it down: fallacies use untrue premises to build arguments


i feel like im the only one on smashboards who has actually completed a single logic course, cause some people just have no idea what a fallacy is and when its being used

Actually, that is a slippery slope argument.
And the saddest part is that you don't even realize it.
Derp.

Congratulations, you suck at arguing.

 

[safehaven]

no its not rofl

there is no slippery slope

honestly why cant 16 year old girls be pornstars. it makes no ****ig sense. so why should people have teh right to marry and not the right to do porn?

they are both completely related. human rights and what is and what isnt a right is the whoel question here..

so basically
ur really****** stupid LOLLLLLL

 

[Spelt]

Yeah and if you watch something as dumb as MLP next you'll be watching dumber **** like teletubbies and then after awhile you'll probably move on to child porn.

You're such a disgrace to society omg you should just turn yourself into the authorities now, freak.

 

[safehaven]

u dont know how to recognize fallacies

id rather watch teletubbies than not know how to use logic lolllll so i consider myself lucky

 

[Spelt]

So you admit that you like child porn?
Well then.

 

[-Jumpman-]

My god, safehaven needs to check wikipedia. Try "slippery slope" first. To make it easier for you: an iPod is not a human being.

 

[safehaven]

that was an analogy not a slippery slope argument

u have to find a problem with a comparison before u can call it slippery slope

and i already memorized this ****, i dont even need wikipedia ahahaaahah bad trolls

i dont see why they should be different, because what should infringe on a persons right to marry? u are limiting it to a person?

look i know u are bad at logic and stuff but even noob debaters can at least point to where they think the fallacy exists and try to explain it

 

[Spelt]

Please continue, I haven't laughed this hard in awhile.

 

[1048576]

its not exploitation. children want to get paid too for getting naked, just like adults. its a right to be a porn actor

it was kinda troll but honestly if u act like everything is for equality, you define equality in terms that no one actually follows or wants.

like why dont ants get rights like other animals? are they equal, or is it discrimination based on complexity? its not fair. ants are just as good, complexity means nothing

the point is this is a dark road which has no real end

basically if u give someone the right to marry, u should give them the right to be a porn actor. why is that not a right? where is the right to marriage from?

also america was not founded on freedom of equality, it was founded on people wanting to have their own personal religious rules that were different from others. the us was founded on the principle of consent of the governed.

basically if u think this country was founded for "equal rights," then either u are ignorant or some other type of fuking stupid

i still dont get why gay people want to be in an institution established in steeped in a church that says gay sex is a sin ROFL.

why not be fuking inventive. if i was gay and proud of it i sure as hell wouldnt want anything to do with marriage as it is. visitation and filing rights for civil unions, get a better name for civil unions, and at least youve done something, rather than *****ing about gay rights, as if marriage is a right and as if people dont like u cause ur gay.

face it, people wont like u cause youre white, or straight, or black, or have blonde hair or are from korea. i actually really like gay people. I think theyre cool in general, except the fuking tools taht go to the gay rallies. omg those people are fuking rude... living in washington dc gave me too many bad experiences with "politically active" ******** gay people

tl:dr
why is marriage a right. and why arent other things? like if im 18 i cant have sex with a 16 year old. what the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuukkkkk

You're posts are hard to read but I want to touch on a couple things.

For some people it's important that their institution of love be called marriage, because they think it will help change the anti-gay culture. If there's one kind of union of homosexuals and another kind for straight people, then it seems like there's a difference in the way they love each other, and these two types of love can be ranked.

The reason children don't get to do everything adults get to do is because society recognizes that children are not fully informed. Society is protecting the adult the child will become from the actions of that person as a child. Deciding whether 16 is old enough for free and informed consent in each individula case is difficult and expensive, so we just set the bar at 18. It's better to err on the side of caution with these things. Personally, I think the bar for consentual sex can be set as low as 14.

 

[Pluvia]

He thinks your 16 but can't be in porn laws are stupid?

You can be old enough to shoot people in the army over there and you still wont be able to have a drink for another 3-4 years.