Q&A New to Sheik? Look here to learn how to get started/Need help with Sheik? Ask your questions here.

[Jaxas]

Odd. TBH I have no clue about how the hardware actually works, I can only judge from what i saw when I opened two of my controllers some time ago.
Well what I found is that R and L seem to work the same way as the other buttons do (it's basicly just an electric circuit that gets closed when the button is completly pressed (sorry, my technical english is really bad, I just translate how we call that stuff in german to english)) So I have no clue what you are talking about, and also how the R and L would be sensitive buttons. I'm pretty sure they are not. For reference:
Picture of the contact of L
Picture of L built out (without the contact) (Warning, big picture)
So yea, would you mind explaining me where I'm wrong? And in addition, how would a shoulderbutton without a spring work? I mean, something would have to press it back up, right? ( I hold my controllers upright, so gravitation pulls R and L down...)

On a sidenote, are you using the new Gamecube controllers? I did not take them apart yet but from the shape and surface I can tell they used a different kind of plastic, or at least a different way of manufacturing or different machine (casting form). The quality also differs greatly, my R and l don't glide as good as the others and get stuck sometimes.

Basically in Brawl, it completely ignored the analog portion of the L and R triggers (the actual 'trigger' part, so to speak) and just sent a TRUE or FALSE based on if the button was pressed or not (the click at the end). With this it was extremely easy to Short Hop because you could easily press it for very short amounts of time, and it would instantly pop back up.

In Smash 4, it registers the Analog portion of the input (pretend it sends "0" to "100", where "0" is all the way up and "100" is all the way down but the button part hasn't clicked) as an input as well, and doesn't stop reading "Jump" or "Shield" until the trigger is all the way back up, meaning that the speed at which the spring pushes the trigger back into place hinders one's ability to short hop with it.

Also yes I am using the new Smash 4 controller, but I've tested it with my old controller (it was despringed will before Sm4sh released) and it doesn't work springless either.

 

[koolkid789]

Hello sheik mains!! I'm not sure what to do when someone crosses up my shield. When I predict this my reaction is to charge d-smash and when I react to it my reaction is to shffl nair (I think that's the right terminology) and maybe convert it into a bouncing fish. My issue is that d-smash can miss and doesn't really gain much from charging. Also it seems pretty easy to react to the nair because I am always getting up smashed. So yeah, my question is what is the optimal oos when someone is behind you?

 

[Yori12]

Have a lot of trouble against link, king dedede and ness. They usually just camp and even if I get a good combo off they can just take it all back in one or two hits.

 

[ArikadoSD]

I see all the professional sheik mains doing the fair string with fair -> fast fall -> jump and fair, rinse and repeat. I can never get this to work quickly enough. whats the trick, if there is any?

 

[Wasserwipf]

Have a lot of trouble against link, king dedede and ness. They usually just camp and even if I get a good combo off they can just take it all back in one or two hits.

We do have a MU thread actually.
(Trying to let things stay organzied...)

I see all the professional sheik mains doing the fair string with fair -> fast fall -> jump and fair, rinse and repeat. I can never get this to work quickly enough. whats the trick, if there is any?

Well I can see where they are coming from. Let me Theory Bros that for you.
Ok, so Jump is 4 Frames. Inputting Fair right after, it will hit on frame 5. Being godlike as we are, we will not Land before frame 9 to get the autocancel and reduce the landing lagg to 4 frames (if you land between frame 1-8 you get 10 frames). 9+4 is 13, where as 6+10 is 16. So, the soonest Fair will hit again after a fair would be 5 to 9 (depending on when you hit your fair first and considering landing on 9) + 4 (jump start) + 5 (hitbox of fair comes out again) = 14 to 19 frames. On the other hand, waiting for Fair to end in the air takes 34! frames. Thats app. more then twice as much. So even without Theorybros, there should still be a frame improvment.
So whats the trick? Being frame perfect, inputting your fastfalls fast enough, but also considering fair autocancel frames and respecting the fact that your opponent might be too high for you to catch him too easely.
Sooo.. works good on low %, I'd say the higher the harder. Just make sure to input everything properly, SH quickly, fastfall quickly, space properly.

 

[iAft3rbang]

Correct me if I'm wrong... To fair fast enough out of shield ... i must use my c-stick? But then to use my c-stick... I can't use my X or Y to SH.

So where should I place Jump ? R or Z ?
R seems really hard to SH ... but what about Z?

Ive been playing with X&Y as jump... should I change that ?

*#1 post yay !

 

[WondrousMoose]

Correct me if I'm wrong... To fair fast enough out of shield ... i must use my c-stick? But then to use my c-stick... I can't use my X or Y to SH.

So where should I place Jump ? R or Z ?
R seems really hard to SH ... but what about Z?

Ive been playing with X&Y as jump... should I change that ?

*#1 post yay !

A lot of people jump with for just the reason that you mentioned. It's all about personal preference, though, so try it out and see how it feels.

 

[iAft3rbang]

A lot of people jump with for just the reason that you mentioned. It's all about personal preference, though, so try it out and see how it feels.

Thanks !
Im new to this game.
Just realised how great it is to free that thumb

 

[MarktheStapler]

Hey guys I'm just starting competitive smash and wanted to learn sheik very well. I have question about things you guys do in training or the lab that will help me become a better player. I have barely used training in any smash games so I need somethings to practice other than shorthop fast fall and the fair combo. Any advice?

 

[WondrousMoose]

Hey guys I'm just starting competitive smash and wanted to learn sheik very well. I have question about things you guys do in training or the lab that will help me become a better player. I have barely used training in any smash games so I need somethings to practice other than shorthop fast fall and the fair combo. Any advice?

Someone actually asked a question very similar to yours about a week ago. I replied there and am too lazy to write up my tips again, so there you go. Basically, the trick is to just practice a lot and to always, always have fun improving.

 

[MarktheStapler]

Someone actually asked (link removed) about a week ago. I replied there and am too lazy to write up my tips again, so there you go. Basically, the trick is to just practice a lot and to always, always have fun improving.

thank you very much appreciated c:

 

[Quickhero]

I have been practicing my Marth for so long that I forgot to play my other main since Melee. I really want to play Sheik, and I used to be able to, but I've lost all methods on how to utilize my needles and grenades and I think I misuse my Bouncing Fish which really makes me vulnerable and I keep on getting rekt.

Switching from a bit more opportunity based character like Marth to an aggressive character is just very odd for me it seems.

 

[Doublenickels]

Hi guys, I'm for the most part a Yoshi main, I went to my first Smash 4 tournament last week and placed 4th with him. But I recently picked up Sheik, when I was playing against my friend and it just feels so natural, I played better with Sheik than with Yoshi, without ever having touched Sheik before.

Question is, do you think I should go ahead and switch mains completely to Sheik? Are there any matchups Sheik has trouble with, that I could maybe cover with Yoshi as a secondary?

Finally what advice do you have for starting out with Sheik? It feels like a lot of the combos just kind of flow naturally and the follow ups are very intuitive.

 

[iAft3rbang]

I watched Mr R sheik mixclip (I cant post the link since I need 10 posts to link a video ... search ''【SSB4】Sheik Mixclip'') on youtube and was wondering what is the tech at 0:23 sec and 0:30 sec ... Looks like he BF into the stage and cancelling BF with the 2nd kick of BF (which is hitting the enemy).

** Is there a way to BF a direction while facing the opposite direction?

 

[ArikadoSD]

I watched Mr R sheik mixclip (I cant post the link since I need 10 posts to link a video ... search ''【SSB4】Sheik Mixclip'') on youtube and was wondering what is the tech at 0:23 sec and 0:30 sec ... Looks like he BF into the stage and cancelling BF with the 2nd kick of BF (which is hitting the enemy).

** Is there a way to BF a direction while facing the opposite direction?

I don't understand that last question but I'll tell you about the move itself.. when you connect Bouncing Fish, be it hitting a wall (like in that video) or an actual target, sheik will bounce back off to land. You can cancel that land (and therefore cancel the lag) by initiating the second kick of bouncing fish (just press the attack button after connecting your bf) and if you do it correctly you're able to jump mid-air before landing so that you'll have 0 landing lag, and if that second kick connects then you can repeat it over and over again but that will almost never happen in practice unless you have more than 1 target... and even then its still probably impossible in practice lol.

Basically thats what Mr. R did. He used bf on the wall of FD there, bounced back off, and used the 2nd kick to hit the opponent.

I managed to pull off something similar by complete chance here: https://gfycat.com/OilySpottedArieltoucan

(in this same gif notice how I used BF on the wall of the stage to quickly sweetspot the ledge and grab it; it's a very useful tech although very simple. it can also work on stages with a 'curved wall' like FD (which is what Mr. R did) although its a bit more tricky and risky a bit.)

 

[iAft3rbang]

I don't understand that last question but I'll tell you about the move itself.. when you connect Bouncing Fish, be it hitting a wall (like in that video) or an actual target, sheik will bounce back off to land. You can cancel that land (and therefore cancel the lag) by initiating the second kick of bouncing fish (just press the attack button after connecting your bf) and if you do it correctly you're able to jump mid-air before landing so that you'll have 0 landing lag, and if that second kick connects then you can repeat it over and over again but that will almost never happen in practice unless you have more than 1 target... and even then its still probably impossible in practice lol.

Basically thats what Mr. R did. He used bf on the wall of FD there, bounced back off, and used the 2nd kick to hit the opponent.

I managed to pull off something similar by complete chance here:

(in this same gif notice how I used BF on the wall of the stage to quickly sweetspot the ledge and grab it; it's a very useful tech although very simple. it can also work on stages with a 'curved wall' like FD (which is what Mr. R did) although its a bit more tricky and risky a bit.)

First, thank you for the reply and thats a really nice gif.

This brings me back to my second question. In Mr R video, when he run off stage, it looks like he's not facing the stage but he somehow manage to BF into the stage. Is there a way to BF the opposite direction youre facing?

 

[Wasserwipf]

First, thank you for the reply and thats a really nice gif.

This brings me back to my second question. In Mr R video, when he run off stage, it looks like he's not facing the stage but he somehow manage to BF into the stage. Is there a way to BF the opposite direction youre facing?

Yes, you can cahnge direction of any B move in the first few frames after inputting it (My guess is 3 frames or so, could be wrong tho, gotta check that later). Since BF is a B move, you can BF and then flick the stick asap.
On a side note, doing this will usually also switch your momentum (so you will change directions and move a bit in the opposite). This is usually called a B-Reverse.
Since you appear to be liking gifs,I have some for you:
B reverse (basic)
B reverse cancel (flashy n stuff)
Combination of Needle gliding, fidget and then the Bouncing Fish reverse thing you were asking about (notice the direction I'm facing)
Hope this helps a bit. If you have any further uestion, or are unsure about something, feel free to ask. Also, theres a high chance I've got a gIif of it already^^

 

[iAft3rbang]

Yes, you can cahnge direction of any B move in the first few frames after inputting it (My guess is 3 frames or so, could be wrong tho, gotta check that later). Since BF is a B move, you can BF and then flick the stick asap.
On a side note, doing this will usually also switch your momentum (so you will change directions and move a bit in the opposite). This is usually called a B-Reverse.
Since you appear to be liking gifs,I have some for you:
B reverse (basic)
B reverse cancel (flashy n stuff)
Combination of Needle gliding, fidget and then the Bouncing Fish reverse thing you were asking about (notice the direction I'm facing)
Hope this helps a bit. If you have any further uestion, or are unsure about something, feel free to ask. Also, theres a high chance I've got a gIif of it already^^

Hahaha you guys are awesome ! Thanks a lot !

I was sure B-reversal was only possible with neutral B ... I don't know why hahaha. Thanks again

/edit : typos

 

[Duzzzyy]

What should one do AGAINST a Sheik? Should you play defensive and try to punish, or pressure her? I'm having issues facing good Sheiks on every single character I play, even my main Zamus. I just can't keep up with her speed and I feel lost, a nudge of knowledge in the right direction on what to do against her would help.

Not sure if this is actually the place to ask but felt like I would get the best answer here, and could be useful for myself since I'm looking to pick her up as my secondary so I know what to look out for, as well as for other Sheik players or Sheik "haters" who might not know.

 

[Wasserwipf]

What should one do AGAINST a Sheik? Should you play defensive and try to punish, or pressure her? I'm having issues facing good Sheiks on every single character I play, even my main Zamus. I just can't keep up with her speed and I feel lost, a nudge of knowledge in the right direction on what to do against her would help.

Not sure if this is actually the place to ask but felt like I would get the best answer here, and could be useful for myself since I'm looking to pick her up as my secondary so I know what to look out for, as well as for other Sheik players or Sheik "haters" who might not know.

Short answer, play lucario.
Long answer, theres not much I can tell you, but I'll try. Sheik has alot of trouble killing. Make use of that, and learn to read her few killing moves. Vanish should never actually hit you, but Sheik might use it either on stage, then dont challange it but wait for it to land with your punish. Offstage, try really avoiding it and watch out for the landed vanish recovery. They might use it ater a grab as well, then it all depends on the conditioning and the reads. (If you airdodge they can vanish, if you don't you might eat an upair, and so on...). Bouncing fish is really obvious actually. They will use it alot, everytime. If they don' they will save it for a killer, then it will come offstage, be ready to airdodge. Also, if they Highhop while gimping, you can be sure its an Airneedle-BF attemd. Airdodge, or, if you get hit, spam airdodge, jump and... I believe DI up and away... On stage, never shield it. Spotdodge, whenever you can. People seem to ignore the fact that B Fhas soooo much landing lag, but is pretty safe on shield.
Fsmash should pretty much never hit you, try not to tech to obvious, and to not even tech at all. Usmash, just watch out when you get thrown on a Battlefield or Lyat platfom. Sheik will be fishing for it. and once you're forced to land& tech on one, you can count the stock almost over... As for gimps, this is really char dependend.
For the neutral and the like, Sheiks weakspot is below her. You can juggle her for ages without her having anything she can do. She will try to escape with an BF, watch out for that. Once she used it in the air, she cannot reuse it until she touches the ground... Respect her aerials, all of them. You can DI Fair chains aswell as Ftilt "lock". DI her rapid jab combo down and away, to either get out or shield it.

mm thats all I can think of as off now, hope it helps a bit.

 

[Duzzzyy]

Short answer, play lucario.
stuff
mm thats all I can think of as off now, hope it helps a bit.

Thanks a lot! Quite a few things here I probably wouldn't have thought of myself like spotdodging the BF. Time to try to find a Sheik main around my level and practice the things you said.

 

[frcShoryuken]

My stuff keeps getting air dodged when I'm trying to pursue after knocking the opponent away. What's the best way to punish this? Do I just jump and not do anything until after I see them air dodge? (also while I'm on this... can they only air dodge once per jump?)

I do great at low %s, but start sucking once they get higher up and every hit knocks them farther away.

 

[ArikadoSD]

My stuff keeps getting air dodged when I'm trying to pursue after knocking the opponent away. What's the best way to punish this? Do I just jump and not do anything until after I see them air dodge? (also while I'm on this... can they only air dodge once per jump?)

yes. usually thats a mind game but its not a bad option to bait the air dodge and then punish afterwards. They can air dodge multiple times but there is a lag period in between where you can punish.

 

[Spark31]

I've seen some people pull off down throw into the u-air meteor which can then chain grab. For some reason though, I can't seem to pull it off. It's driving me insane because I feel like it will be one of the best grab options after the opponent is out of the f-throw to bf. Any tips?

 

[?.?]

I've seen some people pull off down throw into the u-air meteor which can then chain grab. For some reason though, I can't seem to pull it off. It's driving me insane because I feel like it will be one of the best grab options after the opponent is out of the f-throw to bf. Any tips?

Hmm I'll give helping you out a shot... So for this Unreliable chaingrab to work you have to cancel u-air before the last hit comes out, you do this by fast falling out of the uair so only the first few weak hits can connect. So in order to fast fall out of this you have to be past the apex of your jump, that means you have to have initiated the jump gone all the way to the top of the arc and have started falling (jump distance doesn't matter, it's all in the momentum). In order to do the combo you're asking about you have to initiate a d-throw, depending on their percent input a jump at a set height so you're right below them, input a u-air, and last input a fastfall (press down or c-stick down). If done properly you'll land on the ground and shortly after so will they. If done perfectly It supposedly combos fairly well but most of the cast can buffer a roll or something out of it so I suggest doing something else... I myself enjoy doing u-air meteor>jab1,jab2>d-tilt>fair chain. If that doesn't solve your problem can you be more specific as to what you are having trouble with?

 

[V_x_I_D]

Guys, what Sheik attacks are safe on shield?

 

[Spark31]

Hmm I'll give helping you out a shot... So for this Unreliable chaingrab to work you have to cancel u-air before the last hit comes out, you do this by fast falling out of the uair so only the first few weak hits can connect. So in order to fast fall out of this you have to be past the apex of your jump, that means you have to have initiated the jump gone all the way to the top of the arc and have started falling (jump distance doesn't matter, it's all in the momentum). In order to do the combo you're asking about you have to initiate a d-throw, depending on their percent input a jump at a set height so you're right below them, input a u-air, and last input a fastfall (press down or c-stick down). If done properly you'll land on the ground and shortly after so will they. If done perfectly It supposedly combos fairly well but most of the cast can buffer a roll or something out of it so I suggest doing something else... I myself enjoy doing u-air meteor>jab1,jab2>d-tilt>fair chain. If that doesn't solve your problem can you be more specific as to what you are having trouble with?

I should probably elaborate that I don't have things such as a c-stick, as I only own the 3ds version.

 

[Spark31]

Guys, what Sheik attacks are safe on shield?

Bouncing fish... Nuff said

 

[Tristan_win]

Guys, what Sheik attacks are safe on shield?

Sheik safest moves on shield are

Tipper Fair
Tipper Ftilt
Tipper Bair
Bounce Fish (to a certain extent)
Needles
Ground Vanish (to a certain extent)
jab (to a certain extent)
Full hop Nair ( not really but you wont get grabbed =D)
Full hop rising Bair but it's not only hard to preform but will miss some of the small characters.

 

[Ayce God]

never mind.

 

[V_x_I_D]

Sheik safest moves on shield are

Tipper Fair
Tipper Ftilt
Tipper Bair
Bounce Fish (to a certain extent)
Needles
Ground Vanish (to a certain extent)
jab (to a certain extent)
Full hop Nair ( not really but you wont get grabbed =D)
Full hop rising Bair but it's not only hard to preform but will miss some of the small characters.

Thanks a lot, man.

EDIT: Is there any place I can check out hitbox data, or is getting tippers with my aerials something I'm going to have to learn myself playing others?

 

[Tristan_win]

Thanks a lot, man.

EDIT: Is there any place I can check out hitbox data, or is getting tippers with my aerials something I'm going to have to learn myself playing others?

Unfortunately there no hitbox data pictures yet but even if there were I would still suggest learning the range of your moves by playing against others. The only moves that are surprisingly long reaching though are Bounce fish (it's stupid disjointed and hit everywhere but behind) Fair, usmash and Ftilt. Everything else I believe have pretty normal hit boxes all things consider with maybe the exception of Utilt lack of hit box compared to Melee and Brawl.


Edit: I would also suggest learning and mastering the range of Dtilt tipper as it's a good tool to use if you are looking for a kill in the later percents or a combo starter that's not ftilt. Dtilt also can duck under a lot of moves like Zero suit samus ftilt, fsmash, utilt, jab, and grab or Little mac jab and the first part of his ftilt. @_Tree made a good video showing the majority of what Sheik can duck under here.

 

[?.?]

I should probably elaborate that I don't have things such as a c-stick, as I only own the 3ds version.

Shouldn't matter mate, the only reason I even mentioned the c-stick was because some people prefer to input fast falls with it. The inputs are a little more precise without it but still easily do-able... Just practice what I said and it should come with time... I assume you're short hopping properly too.

 

[FEAR977]

What do you guys think Sheik's bad matchups are (or even ones)?

 

[?.?]

I think you should post that in the matchup thread or general discussion thread but I'll tell you what I think. Anyone who can combo as well as we can but have actual kill power are generally even MUS (Luigi and ness for instance)... I honestly think we don't have any bad MUS yet as most characters are still developing. But I feel as time goes on some low tier heros will rise just like they did in brawl.

 

[ArikadoSD]

I think you should post that in the matchup thread or general discussion thread but I'll tell you what I think. Anyone who can combo as well as we can but have actual kill power are generally even MUS (Luigi and ness for instance)... I honestly think we don't have any bad MUS yet as most characters are still developing. But I feel as time goes on some low tier heros will rise just like they did in brawl.

Can you give examples from Brawl? Sorry if I'm derailing the thread, you can reply back in the social thread :o

 

[?.?]

Sure, some good players got some great results with characters as low as E/D tiers. First off here's the link to the last tier list revision (http://smashboards.com/threads/official-swf-tier-list-v8.335959/) so when I talk about certain characters you can see where they placed. So off the top of my head there was Ryo (Ike/link), Scary Ed (Shielda), Esam (Pika), Pink Fresh (lucas), Will (DK). To name a few, all of these players were excellent and had developed their characters to the point at which they could take down the top tier Mk/Icies that plagued every tournament. I'm talking to the point where Esam took down I think it was 12 stocks in a crew battle. If you look back none of these characters had tournament results for the first 1-2 years. And nah just after this post get back on topic, :D It should be fine.

 

[frcShoryuken]

Silly question: How do I not do dash attacks all the time?

 

[ArikadoSD]

Silly question: How do I not do dash attacks all the time?

um.. don't press the attack button when you dash o.o

 

[frcShoryuken]

Lol, I guess a better way to phrase it is, is the best way to dash and then do a normal attack: dash -> cancel the dash with shield -> do whatever attack?

I'm wanting to dash up to the opponent and do tilt attacks, so I'm trying to see if there's a "right way" to do that. I'm trying to not get shield grabbed out of predictable dash attacks