Q&A New to Sheik? Look here to learn how to get started/Need help with Sheik? Ask your questions here.

[V_x_I_D]

So I went to a smasher get together yesterday and this Sheik I played was really good, he was doing like a string where he would take me from one end of the stage to the other and Lots of fairs, and FF, and bairs, is what I kind of remember. Then he'd finish it off with a bouncing fish, it was absolutely awesome and I would love to learn how to do it, I'm not every good at stringing my fairs because my FF skill isn't that great yet. .. I just picked Sheik up at the end of December so I've been playing her for a while, but I need to learn how to do this stuff. Any help?

 

[Wasserwipf]

Oh, and also I heard that our optimal rest punish (there's a good local Puff main) is Grenade -> Bouncing Fish and that it true combos, but I must be doing something wrong because hitting puff with the grenade lets it shield the explosion and the BF. Do I just need to space it to where the actual toss won't hit it?

You're welcome.

Well as you can see, you have a lot of room for mistakes. The vacuum effect helps you alot if you know how. Just for reference, if you should ever get a shield break: http://abload.de/img/shieldbreakpunish1jus7.gif

And a little side info, it does 24-26%, where as a fully charged tipper Usmash does 21 (and you're not going to hit one of these) and side smash does 18, I believe.

 

[CrazyPerson]

Well... today's attempts to learn didn't go to well.

Played 1 vs 1 on final destination against level 9 computers trying to practice gimping.

Much of my attempts to set up combos were air dodged... I did ok with the fthrow to bouncing fish... but trying to get string fairs together was dodged a lot.

Gimping... I suck at it thus far... but that is to be expected. What percentage should I expect kills at? Seems I was getting to 100-150 before doing much... and at that point it felt better to end it with a side smash. I was able to get them off the edge but they were flying to high for me to be able to get to them for gimping. Anyone know how to solve this?

Any good guides here on it? Or youtube videos?

Im wanting to learn this character... but wondering if I'll need to put her on hold for a while to learn someone with a more basic play style. Don't want to do that... but don't want to get creamed once i play with friends either.

 

[Wasserwipf]

Well... today's attempts to learn didn't go to well.

Played 1 vs 1 on final destination against level 9 computers trying to practice gimping.

Much of my attempts to set up combos were air dodged... I did ok with the fthrow to bouncing fish... but trying to get string fairs together was dodged a lot.

Gimping... I suck at it thus far... but that is to be expected. What percentage should I expect kills at? Seems I was getting to 100-150 before doing much... and at that point it felt better to end it with a side smash. I was able to get them off the edge but they were flying to high for me to be able to get to them for gimping. Anyone know how to solve this?

Any good guides here on it? Or youtube videos?

Im wanting to learn this character... but wondering if I'll need to put her on hold for a while to learn someone with a more basic play style. Don't want to do that... but don't want to get creamed once i play with friends either.

Disclaimer, I'll order my paragraphs the same way you did your's so the second thing I write is a response to the second you wrote. Except this firs tone here.

First of, I'd recommend Battlefield as your go to map. If you want the Omega practice, you should go to a stage with straight walls (onett omega eg.) Both stages benefit sheik alot, BF makes her onstage game better, where as straight wall omegas benefit her gimping game. Second, CPU's are frame perfect cheating ********. If they airdodge whatever you do it's because the read your input and react accordingly. No human will or should be able to react as godlike. They're good to practice the overall feel of a character, but then again, thats how far you gow. Gimping a CPU works completly different than a human.

Gimping... can be hard. Especially against people better than you (and CPU's). I'd recommend searching players of your skill level local. If you don't have any, try online and for glory. However, keep in mind, online sheik =/= offline sheik (offline sheik is waaay stronger...). - I usually start to gimp whenever I can. He's at 20% offstage? Welp, don't let him come back then. If you cannot gimp them 140%+ is where you'll probably get your kills actually. Thats the way sheik works (is balanced...). Side Smash is only great for reads and if you're good at reading, you might as well use vanish, looks way more fancy. When they are offstage, they can be at so many different positions. If they are high, Bouncing fish or a fair is usually what I use (jumping from stage). I don't want to go in depth about gimping here, since this was covered by quite a few people already. Here a Video by _Tree.

Guides, not really, but overall I'd recommend @ _Tree 's youtube channel (one video linked above). In addition this list contains all the info, links to guides and videos you need. Check it out for further reading material.

This is about the attitude you should have. Go on, I believe you can learn the game with sheik. Just continue to progress and work hard and it'll certainly pay off. Also, loosing to your friends should be nothing to be ashamed off. Rather take it as a challange to get better and completly destroy them later.

K, hope that helps. If there are still questions, feel free to ask again.

 

[CrazyPerson]

Disclaimer, I'll order my paragraphs the same way you did your's so the second thing I write is a response to the second you wrote. Except this firs tone here.

First of, I'd recommend Battlefield as your go to map. If you want the Omega practice, you should go to a stage with straight walls (onett omega eg.) Both stages benefit sheik alot, BF makes her onstage game better, where as straight wall omegas benefit her gimping game. Second, CPU's are frame perfect cheating *******s. If they airdodge whatever you do it's because the read your input and react accordingly. No human will or should be able to react as godlike. They're good to practice the overall feel of a character, but then again, thats how far you gow. Gimping a CPU works completly different than a human.

I will keep that in mind. I haven't toyed around with Omega levels to much... but chances are people I play with will use them on occasion. Our general rule is that any stage is legal other than custom ones which a few of us need to approve first for anything we take serious.

Gimping... can be hard. Especially against people better than you (and CPU's). I'd recommend searching players of your skill level local. If you don't have any, try online and for glory. However, keep in mind, online sheik =/= offline sheik (offline sheik is waaay stronger...). - I usually start to gimp whenever I can. He's at 20% offstage? Welp, don't let him come back then. If you cannot gimp them 140%+ is where you'll probably get your kills actually. Thats the way sheik works (is balanced...). Side Smash is only great for reads and if you're good at reading, you might as well use vanish, looks way more fancy. When they are offstage, they can be at so many different positions. If they are high, Bouncing fish or a fair is usually what I use (jumping from stage). I don't want to go in depth about gimping here, since this was covered by quite a few people already. Here a Video by _Tree.

Thank you... I have watched a few of those and will do more. (_Tree if you are reading this I think your work is awesome)

Guides, not really, but overall I'd recommend @ _Tree 's youtube channel (one video linked above). In addition this list contains all the info, links to guides and videos you need. Check it out for further reading material.

This is about the attitude you should have. Go on, I believe you can learn the game with sheik. Just continue to progress and work hard and it'll certainly pay off. Also, loosing to your friends should be nothing to be ashamed off. Rather take it as a challange to get better and completly destroy them later.

K, hope that helps. If there are still questions, feel free to ask again.

Working hard is a problem... only so many hours in a day and with my life i have much more important things to do than play smash. It's a slow process... but I want to at least be competitive with the people I play against... losing teaches things getting slaughtered not as much,.

 

[iLLEST]

In general, during the 0-30% of an opponents life, is it better to fthrow -> BF or fthrow -> fair/uair chase?
What made me question this is something I read..

"I'm tired of ending things with bouncing fish. I dont want to end pressure at neutral, i want to keep momentum going as much as possible." - @Absol 359

 

[_Tree]

In general, during the 0-30% of an opponents life, is it better to fthrow -> BF or fthrow -> fair/uair chase?

I think a big factor in this depends on opponents and positioning. If your opponent has a frame 2 nair for example, getting more than 1 fair is tough because often their nair will out-prioritise your fair. Fthrow -> BF does more damage than Fthrow -> fair, so if you're unable to get a fair string because of an opponent's trait, go for the BF. Positioning is similar. If you're in the middle of the stage and are able to fair string the opponent to the ledge, often that's a more favorable option. However, if you grab the opponent over the edge, any kind of fair string is limited, so going for the BF can be better for more damage as well as hitting the opponent further for a possible edge-guard + kill.

In summary: It really depends on the situation. Adapt, and find the right option.

 

[DoffenSS]

Hi! Recently picked up sheik after having ignored her since melee, and are having a blast so far, not a single regret.

I am currently fooling around in training mode, trying to figure out some strings, set ups, follow ups, doing tilts reliably out of arials and what not.
I was doing the short hop nair sex kick by fast falling and dropping the legs on the opponents head and thought it was somewhat useful and fun to do when I realized I could input the fast fall really quickly before the nair (instead of after it) to alter it's properties some.

The input is a bit strict, but I am a novice, and I can do it somewhat easily (have only practiced it for about an hour), so it shouldn't be that hard for great players.

My question is however, is this an viable approach, or is it better to stick with the regular SH-nair/fair-FF? Is it easily punishable?
The reason I am interested is that doing it this way it will connect with the strong hitbox instead of the weak one, giving 8 damage instead of 5, and significantly greater knockback.

Here is a short clip of me performing it, nothing fancy as it was a pain in the ass to record with my tablet.
youtube.com/watch?v=EW8yStPQC9w

 

[Wasserwipf]

Hi! Recently picked up sheik after having ignored her since melee, and are having a blast so far, not a single regret.

I am currently fooling around in training mode, trying to figure out some strings, set ups, follow ups, doing tilts reliably out of arials and what not.
I was doing the short hop nair sex kick by fast falling and dropping the legs on the opponents head and thought it was somewhat useful and fun to do when I realized I could input the fast fall really quickly before the nair (instead of after it) to alter it's properties some.

The input is a bit strict, but I am a novice, and I can do it somewhat easily (have only practiced it for about an hour), so it shouldn't be that hard for great players.

My question is however, is this an viable approach, or is it better to stick with the regular SH-nair/fair-FF? Is it easily punishable?
The reason I am interested is that doing it this way it will connect with the strong hitbox instead of the weak one, giving 8 damage instead of 5, and significantly greater knockback.

Here is a short clip of me performing it, nothing fancy as it was a pain in the *** to record with my tablet.
youtube.com/watch?v=EW8yStPQC9w

With Nair you usually have the frames on your side actually, It comes out quicker, lasts longer but has the same landing lag. The approach from above (Nair falling on them) covers their shorthop options a bit, but overall it doesn't really matter if you do a weak or a strong approach, EXCEPT that the weak will usually hit earlier (as it hits their head already) and limits opponents reaction time.
How you approach is up to you, but mixups should be part of your game, so weak nair, strong nair and even no nair tomahawk will help you alot, I would say it's not much if even worse to weak nair approach.
Keep in mind, weak nair can combo into bouncing fish.

 

[rahsosprout]

hay so im new to sheik (falcon main). trying to pick up sheik as a secondary and i think i would prefer to pick up good habits from the beginning as opposed to trying to correct bad habits which is very difficult.

can anyone point out some things that new sheiks tend to do that i should avoid?
are there any underused tactics that are really good?

since i know hardly anything about sheik, my impression of her moveset is as follows (and is probably terribly wrong). i'd appreciate if somebody who understands sheik, could correct my understanding of these moves

5 star: ftilt, fair, bair, dtilt, needles, dthrow
4 star: uair, nair, bouncing fish, vanish, dsmash, fthrow
3 star: jab, dash attack, fsmash
2 star: usmash, bthrow
1 star: grenade, utilt, dair, uthrow

 

[iLLEST]

In summary: It really depends on the situation. Adapt, and find the right option.

Thanks for reply, I was really overthinking it.. I noticed after I posted I played a game and subconsciously went for a fthrow - bf against a ness realizing I didn't wanna get smacked by his spinning fists.


... any uses for utilt?

also someone should make an exclusive thread on air needles -> bf lol

 

[Tristan_win]

Thanks for reply, I was really overthinking it.. I noticed after I posted I played a game and subconsciously went for a fthrow - bf against a ness realizing I didn't wanna get smacked by his spinning fists.


... any uses for utilt?

also someone should make an exclusive thread on air needles -> bf lol

Utilt isn't that bad of a move if you land it as it can still combo into some attacks like dash attack and most likely bf as well since everything does but due to it's gross nerfs since Brawl it's difficult to land due to it's horizontal hit boxes and lower priority. It's most likely been 2 month since I've seen a Sheik use Utilt and that last time was me.


Oi, maybe you should make a thread on air needles into BF!

> : 3

~Goes back into the lab~

 

[Wasserwipf]

hay so im new to sheik (falcon main). trying to pick up sheik as a secondary and i think i would prefer to pick up good habits from the beginning as opposed to trying to correct bad habits which is very difficult.

can anyone point out some things that new sheiks tend to do that i should avoid?
are there any underused tactics that are really good?

since i know hardly anything about sheik, my impression of her moveset is as follows (and is probably terribly wrong). i'd appreciate if somebody who understands sheik, could correct my understanding of these moves

5 star: ftilt, fair, bair, dtilt, needles, dthrow
4 star: uair, nair, bouncing fish, vanish, dsmash, fthrow
3 star: jab, dash attack, fsmash
2 star: usmash, bthrow
1 star: grenade, utilt, dair, uthrow

Welcome to sheik and her boards

Things beginners tend to do? Roll to much (sheik does not need to roll, 80% of the time you can simply run away...). Don't Fsmash, except you get a read, don't rely on it to kill. Don't rely on your Fair and Ftilt, they only work so long.

As for the stars, I'd say there are some messed up. I'd rather have them:
6 stars: Bouncing Fish
5 stars: Needles, Fair, Ftilt, Fthrow & Dthrow (both have increadible followups)
4 stars: Jab 1&2, Nair, Uair, Vanish, Dtilt, Bair
3 stars: dash attack, U smash, Grab
2 stars: jab combo, grenade, Fsmash, Utilt, Pummel
1 star: Dsmash, Uthrow, Bthrow
0 stars: Dair

That should be more accurate. Of course, personal bias, but the positions should vary max. 1 spot here.

 

[rahsosprout]

Welcome to sheik and her boards

Things beginners tend to do? Roll to much (sheik does not need to roll, 80% of the time you can simply run away...). Don't Fsmash, except you get a read, don't rely on it to kill. Don't rely on your Fair and Ftilt, they only work so long.

As for the stars, I'd say there are some messed up. I'd rather have them:
6 stars: Bouncing Fish
5 stars: Needles, Fair, Ftilt, Fthrow & Dthrow (both have increadible followups)
4 stars: Jab 1&2, Nair, Uair, Vanish, Dtilt, Bair
3 stars: dash attack, U smash, Grab
2 stars: jab combo, grenade, Fsmash, Utilt, Pummel
1 star: Dsmash, Uthrow, Bthrow
0 stars: Dair

That should be more accurate. Of course, personal bias, but the positions should vary max. 1 spot here.

wow thx a bunch. just wanna point out that im a newbie to sheik but not a newbie to smash

why is dsmash bad? im used to melee sheik so i thought it was a great move but i guess the hitboxes seem a lot less reliable now.

also why is usmash okay? is it mostly situational such as dthrow usmash at low% and usmash tipper on battlefield platforms?

also im used to jabbing a ton as falcon but i always just do the 3 hit gentleman, since 2 hit jab + mixup isnt always guaranteed. are there any guaranteed followups from jab?

 

[Wasserwipf]

wow thx a bunch. just wanna point out that im a newbie to sheik but not a newbie to smash

why is dsmash bad? im used to melee sheik so i thought it was a great move but i guess the hitboxes seem a lot less reliable now.

also why is usmash okay? is it mostly situational such as dthrow usmash at low% and usmash tipper on battlefield platforms?

also im used to jabbing a ton as falcon but i always just do the 3 hit gentleman, since 2 hit jab + mixup isnt always guaranteed. are there any guaranteed followups from jab?

Dsmash is not that great as it lacks killing power, range and speed.
Usmash is great because of the tipper, Fthrow usmash mixups are great, there are other setups as well. Also, Hyphen Usmash.

basicly, no. there are no true jab followups. However, chars with slow nairs might struggle, and the mixups are real. (Jab dtilt, jab grab, jab sh nair, jab jab etc... and sometimes even jab - run through them, reverse something)

 

[Ekans647]

Hey guys! I just picked up Sheik after play Greninja for a bit. I'm not to good with her but I love Sheik already. However I'm having trouble with Burst Grenade and Bouncing Fish? I have a few questions:

What are the uses for Burst Grenade? I main Snake in Brawl so I really want to use this move.
How to you land Bouncing Fish? I miss most of my attempts
What are some combos to land Bouncing Fish to get the KO? I've seen Aerial Needle Storm --> Bouncing Fish.
How does Bouncing Fish differ from ZSS' Flip Jump? This isn't a gameplay question. These moves just seems really similar.

Thanks for all you help!

 

[CrazyPerson]

Probably in the stupid queston department.

Still working on gimping. Finding myself attempting to do Fairs and ending up doing Nairs... which often results in a SD and a very frustrated me. The time between using Nair and being able to enter another command is to long. Any idea how to stop doing this?

 

[Tristan_win]

Probably in the stupid queston department.

Still working on gimping. Finding myself attempting to do Fairs and ending up doing Nairs... which often results in a SD and a very frustrated me. The time between using Nair and being able to enter another command is to long. Any idea how to stop doing this?

I feel I must ask but are you using the C stick for your fair's?

The best answer I can give is if your not already try using the C stick for your fair's is practice in training mode fthrow dash into full hop fair's without the C stick.

 

[CrazyPerson]

I feel I must ask but are you using the C stick for your fair's?

The best answer I can give is if your not already try using the C stick for your fair's is practice in training mode fthrow dash into full hop fair's without the C stick.

Not typicaly. I have my C stick set to attack for now... because I do a lot of smashing when I mean to tilt... but I am hoping to switch that back to smash once I don't need it anymore.

With that said, I usually use control stick and A to do my airs.

 

[rahsosprout]

Dsmash is not that great as it lacks killing power, range and speed.
Usmash is great because of the tipper, Fthrow usmash mixups are great, there are other setups as well. Also, Hyphen Usmash.

basicly, no. there are no true jab followups. However, chars with slow nairs might struggle, and the mixups are real. (Jab dtilt, jab grab, jab sh nair, jab jab etc... and sometimes even jab - run through them, reverse something)

what changed about dsmash though. didnt it used to be very good in melee?...or maybe that was cuz you could crouch cancel it to punish hits

also im having difficulty incorporating dtilt into my game. should this be used oos? im used to using it as zss and falcon as a spacing option but the range on sheiks is abyssmal

Not typicaly. I have my C stick set to attack for now... because I do a lot of smashing when I mean to tilt... but I am hoping to switch that back to smash once I don't need it anymore.

With that said, I usually use control stick and A to do my airs.

you can still use it to do aerials

 

[Tristan_win]

what changed about dsmash though. didnt it used to be very good in melee?...or maybe that was cuz you could crouch cancel it to punish hits

also im having difficulty incorporating dtilt into my game. should this be used oos? im used to using it as zss and falcon as a spacing option but the range on sheiks is abyssmal

you can still use it to do aerials

Oh yes in Melee and Brawl Dsmash was a great move as it came out super quickly and lasted long enough that it could be used to easily punish spot dodges. It was our GTFO move.

What made dsmash worst though was it's knock back nerfs, range nerfs, duration nerfs, speed nerfs.

I think the speed and duration nerfs hurt it the most though as before the first hit of dsmash would come out in front of Sheik on frame 4 which is as fast as some characters jabs in Brawl btw then it would hit behind Sheik twice on frame 14 and 21 before finishing. In Smash4 it hits in front and behind Sheik at the same time twice but now on frame 11 and 18.

 

[iLLEST]

Oi, maybe you should make a thread on air needles into BF!
> : 3
~Goes back into the lab~

lol I would love to contribute to #teamsheik, but I don't have access to a personal computer and only my DS for a few months
i'm on a "long vacation". I'll def post up if I find something before all the geniuses here.
*waits patiently in lab for new tech guide*

What are the uses for Burst Grenade? I main Snake in Brawl so I really want to use this move.
How to you land Bouncing Fish? I miss most of my attempts
What are some combos to land Bouncing Fish to get the KO? I've seen Aerial Needle Storm --> Bouncing Fish.
How does Bouncing Fish differ from ZSS' Flip Jump? This isn't a gameplay question. These moves just seems really similar.
Thanks for all you help!

As far as grenade techs.. check out the Sheikah Catalog and Advanced Techniques, there's quite a few techniques in general that when used, seperate the good Sheiks from the better ones.
Landing bouncing fish from neutral... is like reading between the lines. There's also a ton of followups into BF that take slight horizontal adjustment.
The only combo I can think of for the actual BF KO would be Bouncing Sushi. There's also fthrow into bait airdodge and whatnot.. Lately, i've been getting a lot of KO's from*** VANISH***
Also there arent many similarities between BF and flip jump.. besides mobility. Hope someone more experienced can help better!

edit: tried to link all the said threads but it said I needed 10 posts >

 

[Ekans647]

So how many times can you use Bouncing Fish in the air? Can Sheik B-reverse her needles?

 

[Wasserwipf]

So how many times can you use Bouncing Fish in the air? Can Sheik B-reverse her needles?

it's a bit special. You can hit up to 3 opponents, and bounce walls up to 3 times. If you input a kick before bouncing, you can bounce at least 4 times of off walls. I believe you can wallbounce and still hit 3 people. Oh and, you'll never be able to wallbounce more than 2 times in a real match, I guess. Triple bounces happen in teams eg.

Yes she can. There are quite a few tricks you can do with this actually. Go to the compendium, needles section.

 

[CrazyPerson]

Can I get the names of some successful competitive Shiek players? I'd like to watch them in action and see if I can get any ideas.

 

[jedyobidan]

Found something possibly interesting today; uthrow seems to have almost fixed knockback, or very low KB growth. I'm thinking maybe uthrow -> uair at high percents can be a good setup to take the stock. I tried getting it to combo in training but couldn't get it to true combo, so probably only good for a grab mixup. Thoughts?

 

[rahsosprout]

Can I get the names of some successful competitive Shiek players? I'd like to watch them in action and see if I can get any ideas.

mr.r and nietono

 

[rahsosprout]

Oh yes in Melee and Brawl Dsmash was a great move as it came out super quickly and lasted long enough that it could be used to easily punish spot dodges. It was our GTFO move.

What made dsmash worst though was it's knock back nerfs, range nerfs, duration nerfs, speed nerfs.

I think the speed and duration nerfs hurt it the most though as before the first hit of dsmash would come out in front of Sheik on frame 4 which is as fast as some characters jabs in Brawl btw then it would hit behind Sheik twice on frame 14 and 21 before finishing. In Smash4 it hits in front and behind Sheik at the same time twice but now on frame 11 and 18.

what is your go to gtfo move? having played with falcon since release, i cant quit the habit of doing 3 hit jab which as sheik just turns into the crappy rapid jab. should i just work on fixing the habit and doing jab to something (ftilt,dtilt, grab, etc) or is there another option i should be using

edit: sorry for double post. forgot i just responded to something else

 

[Zanitox]

Hey can someone please give me some advice on the match up against Mario? My friend plays such an annoying mario and I have to show him his place but consistently! lol. Thank you.

 

[Ignorance]

How do I approach a projectile happy link with Sheik?

 

[MetaBhreat]

How do I approach a projectile happy link with Sheik?

Go check the Link section of the matchup thread.
I know our MU thread is a little slow but there's good info for vs. Link.

And all good Links will be projectile happy.

 

[Cruecial]

Would somebody mind explaining how to do the aerial needles to bouncing fish that I saw Mr. R do many times at APEX? I can't seem to cancel out of the aerial needles so that I can bouncing fish before hitting the ground. I've tried doing it at the top of a full hop but I'm assuming I'm doing something wrong.

 

[Wasserwipf]

Would somebody mind explaining how to do the aerial needles to bouncing fish that I saw Mr. R do many times at APEX? I can't seem to cancel out of the aerial needles so that I can bouncing fish before hitting the ground. I've tried doing it at the top of a full hop but I'm assuming I'm doing something wrong.

Several options. If you are on stage, youu neeed to fullhop, and start shooting needles right when leaving the ground. Else you will land with lag. If you are in the Air already, you might want to use your doublejump and also immediately throw your needles (you don't need to hit all of them actually, just one can be enough... with fully charged you'll throw 6 so thats plenty).

So basicly always start throwing them rising. If you are offstage you might want to experement a bit, as i believe you could Needleglide->BF if he's recovering low.

 

[GraphiK]

redacted, please ignore.

 

[Cruecial]

Several options. If you are on stage, youu neeed to fullhop, and start shooting needles right when leaving the ground. Else you will land with lag.

Great, this makes perfect sense to me now. My only issue at this point is that I'm unable to do it unless I do a sort of claw with my right hand, using my pointer finger to hit 'x' to full hop while my thumb hits 'b' for needles at the same time. I'm unable to take the normal approach from 'x' -> 'b' quickly enough it seems. Is this just a matter of practice or do you have a different button configuration than myself?


Thanks again for all the help!

 

[Wasserwipf]

Great, this makes perfect sense to me now. My only issue at this point is that I'm unable to do it unless I do a sort of claw with my right hand, using my pointer finger to hit 'x' to full hop while my thumb hits 'b' for needles at the same time. I'm unable to take the normal approach from 'x' -> 'b' quickly enough it seems. Is this just a matter of practice or do you have a different button configuration than myself?


Thanks again for all the help!

You have quite a few optionbasicly.
-use 2 fingers. Index on jump thumb on B.
-Thumb X then thumb B. As you stated however, you cannot do this. It is possible tho.
-Use the tip of you thumb to jump (works better with Y) and then hit B with the lower part of your thumb (i usually hit it around the joint)
-Set R, L or Z to jump. It's pretty hard to SH with those, but since you need Full Hop anyway you could go with one of these. This is imo the easiest option.

 

[Jaxas]

You have quite a few optionbasicly.
-use 2 fingers. Index on jump thumb on B.
-Thumb X then thumb B. As you stated however, you cannot do this. It is possible tho.
-Use the tip of you thumb to jump (works better with Y) and then hit B with the lower part of your thumb (i usually hit it around the joint)
-Set R, L or Z to jump. It's pretty hard to SH with those, but since you need Full Hop anyway you could go with one of these. This is imo the easiest option.

I miss (springless) L for short hopping; I trained myself to use L for all my short-hop aerials in Brawl & 3DS (and P:M when I messed around with it)

Anyways, for the single needle to BF, do you press Jump->B->B immediately, or do you jump and anywhere on the way up press B the second time?

 

[CrazyPerson]

On the topic of short hops, I had set my r button to it thinking it would be easier on a pressure sensitive button. Can I get a video of effective short hops with Shiek? I seem to do it better with other characters and figured it was just Shiek was a higher jumper.

 

[Jaxas]

On the topic of short hops, I had set my r button to it thinking it would be easier on a pressure sensitive button. Can I get a video of effective short hops with Shiek? I seem to do it better with other characters and figured it was just Shiek was a higher jumper.

So far the best I've found is training yourself to jump with Z and grab with L or R (whichever you don't shield with).

In Brawl you could just remove the springs from the shoulder buttons and use just the digital buttons, but Smash 4 won't register another press until the triggers go all the way back up, unfortunately.

If anyone finds a way around this limitation, please let me know.

 

[Wasserwipf]

On the topic of short hops, I had set my r button to it thinking it would be easier on a pressure sensitive button. Can I get a video of effective short hops with Shiek? I seem to do it better with other characters and figured it was just Shiek was a higher jumper.

Err.. what? Sorry i don't really uderstand your question. What i believe you're asking is how shorthops look with sheik, right? if so, here a gif that shows her short and highhops:

Or do you want to see combos? If so, just go watch some sheik footage, as all sheiks shorthop like 90% of the time.
On a sidenote, Shorthopping is not dependend on button pressure, only on speed. So it doesnt matter if you button is sensitive or not, its all about releasing it afap. (This also counts for stickjump, and is the reason SHing with L and R are super hard imo)

Anyways, for the single needle to BF, do you press Jump->B->B immediately, or do you jump and anywhere on the way up press B the second time?

I usually do the single needle only offstage, as you should shoot it a bit delayed (it should hit when usually the 6th needle would hit, so you need to delay your inputs to match those more or less. overall I do NOT recommend this, I was just pointing out it is possible. In any case, B->B is the way to go, yes. (I might cover frame data on that stuff later, let's see if I'll find some time.

In Brawl you could just remove the springs from the shoulder buttons and use just the digital buttons, but Smash 4 won't register another press until the triggers go all the way back up, unfortunately.

If anyone finds a way around this limitation, please let me know.

Odd. TBH I have no clue about how the hardware actually works, I can only judge from what i saw when I opened two of my controllers some time ago.
Well what I found is that R and L seem to work the same way as the other buttons do (it's basicly just an electric circuit that gets closed when the button is completly pressed (sorry, my technical english is really bad, I just translate how we call that stuff in german to english)) So I have no clue what you are talking about, and also how the R and L would be sensitive buttons. I'm pretty sure they are not. For reference:
Picture of the contact of L
Picture of L built out (without the contact) (Warning, big picture)
So yea, would you mind explaining me where I'm wrong? And in addition, how would a shoulderbutton without a spring work? I mean, something would have to press it back up, right? ( I hold my controllers upright, so gravitation pulls R and L down...)

On a sidenote, are you using the new Gamecube controllers? I did not take them apart yet but from the shape and surface I can tell they used a different kind of plastic, or at least a different way of manufacturing or different machine (casting form). The quality also differs greatly, my R and l don't glide as good as the others and get stuck sometimes.