New Survival Mechanic In Smash 4 - "Vectoring"

[RanserSSF4]

Wait, from what I've seen Ganondorf has no auto cancels. He actually does?!

He does, but you have to do the moves as soon as you short jump and fastfall after you throw it out. It's similar to shieks Fair in this game.

 

[Gidy]

It's better for platforms though, like in Melee. Where when you hit with that last hitbox it has this nasty angle.

What platforms. FD Only

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

I hope there are more combos that work then ones that don't.

Me too. I've seen a lot combos post-discovery of this, but I'm not sure if a lot of people know about this yet...

 

[RanserSSF4]

While i do agree that this will allow players to live much longer, I don't think this will hurt combos a lot. What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that you CAN get out of combos in Melee with good DI. If the opponent made the wrong guess of where you go after a move, you can get out of combos.

The same case with Brawl, despite combos being ruined by airdodging out of combos, you just need to guess where they go and follow up.

In Smash 4, despite the pros and cons this mechanic offers, this mechanic will courage more players to play off-stage to get kills.

The game has only been out for a week to a week and a half, and most players hadn't took advantage of the new ledge mechanics yet. CT Zero is one of the only few that has took advantage of it, and man, those matches end really fast because of that and are fun as hell to watch the ledge mechanic being used by professionals.

I don't like how a lot of people are judging this game and instantly call this game Brawl 2.0 when they either hadn't played it themselves or whatever. Give the game more time so we can see how much the meta for this game evolves. From what I've seen from early tournaments, the game offers a lot of diversity and most players are starting to take advantage of the ledge mechanics and the game has recieved lots of positive reaction from the competitive community.

You also got the recently discovered "Rage Mechanic," which, while I find it odd at first, could possibly counter this mechanic a little, but I'm not sure at this point.

I know many will get mad at me for saying that, but this is just me giving out my two cents out there and small rant. I've been playing Smash bros since the first game, and trust me, you really do need to guess where the opponents go in your combos. Otherwise, they will get out of it.

 

[LOGIA666]

I hate using the term "Vectoring" to describe this phenomenon.

But using the phrase "VI" is too good to pass up.

East Coast/West Coast DI
East Coast/West Coast VI.

 

[KrymsonSkyz]

The term Directional Influence still applies, Vectoring is the dumbest name I've ever heard

 

[Reila]

Someone made a petition to patch this.
The game's not even out in North America yet.

This is so ****ing pathetic.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

It's probably a glitch.

 

[BobEugCox]

The way people are talking it almost seems like they wait for people to come back to the stage. Am I the only one who's learned to follow people off the stage for a risk/reward factor? Anyways, it's not hard to follow someone off the stage for a meteor or any good aerial kill.

I agree.
It makes the game more fun to have to work a little harder to get ko's. Plus, it's nice to be able to have more opportunities to get back to the stage with a high percentage. It feels more like smash 64 where each match is like a game of king of the hill.

 

[Aninymouse]

What if somebody gets grabbed and holds up to predict a down throw, but the opponent throws up instead, therefore making their upwards knockback even higher? There are new kinds of mind games to be toyed with here.

Exactly. I like your optimism, OptimistNic! No really, I do.

Vectoring is not inherently good or bad. Seems quite neutral. If anything, it's a far more intuitive DI system. Even the name "vector" is extremely helpful, if you know what a vector is, since it describes exactly what it does. Compare that to DI; it took me forever to finally understand how to DI in Melee since all the explainations I heard for the longest time were just ass.

Anyway. Yeah! Vectoring will be what we make it.

 

[Neos]

No DI in this game? Interesting.

 

[GTZ]

This would explain why there is a different feeling when playing the demo.. Interesting post, only time will tell right guys?

 

[Diabolical]

Combos do not make up the bulk of competitive play. Good reads and mindgames do

Tell that to Brawl which competitively is pretty much dead

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Guys, I'm a little confused. Strongbad is saying that combos are impossible yet peoples tests are proving him wrong. What?

its because he's bull****ting you lmao

he basically no longer had access to the game the moment he discovered DI had been changed.

 

[Thor]

The term Directional Influence still applies, Vectoring is the dumbest name I've ever heard

No man, nowadays it ain't Directional Influence.

It's Distance Influence. I propose the abbreviation DI

 

[Browny]

Oh my god this is ********. Vectoring isn't even a word, a vector is not something that is 'done' like a verb, its a thing.

It is exactly like calling shooting lasers 'projectiling'. Let's kill 'vectoring' before it spreads.

 

[LydianAlchemist]

I've heard some people say its the same as DI (or that we should call it DI) and, well, its not.

Z cancel, L cancel, Auto cancel, Float cancel, they are all different things in different games that achieve the same effect.

Sure VI "influences your direction" but in the same vein, all of the above "cancel lag", the mechanics are all different, so we call them different things. We don't call them all L cancel because that would be disingenuous and too general.

Idc what they call it just don't call it DI cause it's not.

 

[Aninymouse]

I've heard some people say its the same as DI (or that we should call it DI) and, well, its not.

Z cancel, L cancel, Auto cancel, Float cancel, they are all different things in different games that achieve the same effect.

Sure VI "influences your direction" but in the same vein, all of the above "cancel lag", the mechanics are all different, so we call them different things. We don't call them all L cancel because that would be disingenuous and too general.

Idc what they call it just don't call it DI cause it's not.

I don't care what it's called either, really, but it influences the angle and distance you travel when hit by adding a vector to your trajectory. So really, "vector" is an accurate term. Yes, we are using "vector" as a verb to truncate the thought process of, "he is adding a vector to his trajectory; he is vectoring." I agree it is inelegant, as some have said, but it was the name first devised. It's likely to stick.

@ Browny The fact that "vectoring" is not a real word does not bother me in the slightest. People invent words to desribe phenomena all the time. "Wavedash" isn't a word, either. At least "vector" accurately describes what the process actually is/does, unlike the old DI (you are not so much changing direction as you are changing the launch angle), and wavedashing (a borrowed term, I realize, but still a useless name for describing what is actually taking place).

 

[PlasmWraith]

Oh my god this is ********. Vectoring isn't even a word, a vector is not something that is 'done' like a verb, its a thing.

It is exactly like calling shooting lasers 'projectiling'. Let's kill 'vectoring' before it spreads.

Implying 'luigifying' is a word

 

[Aninymouse]

Someone made a petition to patch this.
The game's not even out in North America yet.

This is so ****ing pathetic.

Yeah that pretty much sums that up for me. This has barely been discovered, let alone utilized. We don't even have all the facts yet.

 

[Reila]

Tell that to Brawl which competitively is pretty much dead

Because Brawl is the only fighting game which isn't focused on combos, amiright

 

[Gidy]

Because Brawl is the only fighting game which isn't focused on combos, amiright

You are right, but I don't want another game without combos.

 

[BioZelink]

Holding the circle pad up isn't out smarting. It's braindead, if anything. The game already has enough defensive options so it's your fault if you get caught in a combo. Heavy characters, like bowser, can survive to insanely high percents while light to mid weight characters only survive "a little" when using this mechanic.

If Nintendo is wanting to get more in touch with their community and host tournements, they should know that other game companies take feedback from their community to make a game better. Is it wrong that we want that?

The new way to DI is a lot better, it is intuitive, to not die from the top hold down, instead of up and right. It is intuitive and actually makes sense. Think about it a little, all "pro" players are just bumhurt because they are used to the old way DI worked, well you will get used to this as well.

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

I hate when people calling Smash 4 Brawl 2.0, just because it's not melee it's not Brawl 2.0. How about try to learn something new instead of playing it safe like you did for the pass 10 years.

I hate people like you who think all the fans who dislike something are "Melee fans" I'm a proud N64 player, and I love the new smash game, BUT there are a bunch of things I dislike, like infinite air dodging, and this new technique called vectoring, and no N64 stages, I swear N64 gets no respect from you guys, I back up Melee fans because I actually know what they're going through, Melee and N64 feels great with their fair combo game, brawl and smash 4? Not so much

 

[SojyuRyu]

As we've seen before, this game will be in its own area its not melee or brawl 2.0 give up those pipe dreams already its faster than brawl slow paced game and not as fast as melee or technical its got its own style and mechanics of which we need the games out and thoroughly tested to see.

 

[HenryZusa]

...Am I the only one who has been "vectoring" (terrible name please spread it no further lol) since the first smash not knowing that it wasn't a real thing until now? lol. I always assumed that pulling in the opposite direction you are flying had at least minimal influence on negating some knock back lol.

Don't worry man I've been doing the same all this time. I actually thought that's what people referred to when they talked about DI.

 

[Diabolical]

As far as I can understand, it just means that there will be less directions at which a player will be sent flying, but in its place, on can alter the knockback received, so to speak, if holding at the right direction.

...

How exactly does that influence this game's comboing in a harsh way?

Actually the influence on the direction you go seems to be as strong if not stronger than Melee DI. The difference is the knockback change,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_l60yxG-Yg Watch this to understand

 

[PlateProp]

Can we all just agree that "Vectoring" is unintuitive, and will cause uneeded explanations of what it is? Seriously, let's just call this Smash 4 DI, it's clear as to what game you're referring to, and there's no mixup with the previous DI.

 

[ViRuSy]

So this means matches will last forever not because of camping like Brawl, but because getting a kill is going to take a while and combos aren't a thing at high %?

Not sure how I feel about that.

We do still have that "rage" effect though. I don't know how this will change things, but let's just see how the metagame develops (Hopefully we get a patch if vectoring ruins competitive play).

Btw Link can Jab->Up-B at high %, and
Mario can DThrow->Fair some characters

 

[Monkley6]

This may have been discussed somewhere in here... But I'm not reading through 200 posts just to find out... Anyway...
When does "vectoring" occur? Is it like DI, when you get hit, and it's done, or does it actively affect your knockback/trajectory throughout the whole knockback of a move?

I assume these are the kinds of things we don't know yet, but thought I'd ask in case we do.

 

[Reflex_i]

13 more years of Melee, let's go

Have fun..

 

[Capt. Falconminetor]

We do still have that "rage" effect though. I don't know how this will change things, but let's just see how the metagame develops (Hopefully we get a patch if vectoring ruins competitive play).

Btw Link can Jab->Up-B at high %, and
Mario can DThrow->Fair some characters

What is this "rage" effect that you are talking about? Just asking.

 

[B.A.M.]

(I know these are just follow ups, but it's damn close)
Other than that, sorry for the rant. I get really pissed when I see people saying that Sm4sh is gonna be Brawl 2.0.

Theres no need to get pissed off about people's opinions ( even if the majority of them are simply following the trend and not thinking for themselves.) Also for the record, that video is a horrific example of anything, i mean those arent even followups dude is just arbitrarily throwing out attacks. there's exponentially better combos/strings/DI traps that have been showcased than that. That very video is counter-productive to your cause. Straight up dude lol. If smash 4 was really like that, no one would play (clearly a hyperbole).

I mean you can't get aggravated at people for their opinions and have that as your evidence. If thats your basis for your claim then you are more blinded then they are. As far as I'm concerned this mechanic isnt not contributing to bettering the game aside from making DI more intuitive to the casuals seeking to transition into the competitive community ( which is actually 1 pro of this technique). However, vectoring seems to not be remotely as powerful in early percent which is where the crux of Smash combos lie period. So that may be a saving grace. Also current combos and strings found at this time are being done with lackluster controls, and the frames lost in all this make up all the difference.


VERDICT: Majority of the people complaining on here are basing the entire end metagame for this new smash on 2 weeks of VIEWERSHIP ( most havent played the full product) of this game. Secondly, the majority of the people watching the game also have NEVER played smash competitively. Last but not least, even the top echelon of competitive smash or gaming in general can't not accurately predict the definitive end game in terms of the meta. What does that mean? The gross majority doesn't know a damn thing. This also tie into real life applications but thats a whole other tangent. I'm sure a ton of people hear love scream out they are pro-science so how 'bout you use it and hmm idk WAIT FOR A GREATER SAMPLE SIZE?

 

[B.A.M.]

Basically, they replaced the old DI mechanic with something more intuitive and easier to learn. It only raises kill move survivability by a little, which will matter less as people learn what their kill moves are. It doesn't outright ruin combos most of the time, only making them require a little more heads-up reaction to perform and giving combo victims a chance to escape them by outsmarting their opponent instead of getting upwards of 60% tacked on to them helplessly.

So how in Arceus' name is this a bad thing? >_>

Well let's see........... Combined with the larger blast zones characters are living a LOT longer than in past iterations. This isnt a positive to competitive play. AT BEST this facet of vectoring may be marginalized. AT BEST. If someone can escape, its not a true combo so lets just put that out there. Also the time given may potentially be too much in terms of reacting BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY DI away maybe exponentially more powerful and applicable to almost every situation. DI away doesnt not equal "outsmarting your opponent." Lastly, in a competitive fighter neutral is very important however there need to be the proper repercussions for a proper read in neutral. Otherwise, its just a laborious poking war with little advantageous situations.

I mean just think about it; life in this game is basically based on what damage u live too. Now if Im living longer and Im comboing less, that means by the process of having a larger life bar and doing less damage I have to hit an opponent that many more times and with how DI away could potentially work that means it is a long period of moving in and out of zones until someone gets hit and then resetting back into neutral. This isn't enjoyable and has the potential to skew any idea of balance if the game is centralized on one major thing like pokes.

Is this what will occur? No one knows and I do not agree with this huge bandwagon that the game is going to be garbage because of it. However, its fairly easy to assert that there's currently more potential for this to be detrimental to the game than positive. So marginalizing that perspective is silly; it is a very real issue and somewhat logical concern.

 

[HammerHappy]

I don't think this will cripple the flow of the game like Brawl did. At least not as brutally.

We'll probably see a meta favoring characters with powerful air game to finish or follow.

Or just pick Bowser and hit like a truck while accelerating like a sports car.

Has Nintendo mentioned anything about dynamic updates? If they're serious about competitive smash maybe it's time to join the 21st century and release balance patches. If anything to avoid potential metaknight syndrome (again, nothing as brutal in Smash 4 but hopefully it's a lesson learned).

 

[Auramaniji]

I'm fine with adjusting to this, it maybe even easier and work towards my advantage in someway.

 

[Dunk Master]

So basically what I'm getting from this is that instead of only being able to change the angle of the knockback (DI) you can now also change the magnitude of the knockback (vectoring? That name will never stick lol)

I don't see how this is a particularly bad thing. In fact, I like it. It makes more sense. Quite frankly, I have always held the control stick at a diagonal when DI-ing anyway.

Also, lol at all the die hard melee fans that are still processing the fact that this ain't melee.

 

[Kikkipoptart12]

I hate people like you who think all the fans who dislike something are "Melee fans" I'm a proud N64 player, and I love the new smash game, BUT there are a bunch of things I dislike, like infinite air dodging, and this new technique called vectoring, and no N64 stages, I swear N64 gets no respect from you guys, I back up Melee fans because I actually know what they're going through, Melee and N64 feels great with their fair combo game, brawl and smash 4? Not so much

First of all I never said fans who dislike something are Melee fans so I don't know where you got that from, I was talking about the fans that compare Smash 4 to Brawl which it's not, every little thing that is bad in smash 4 is a brawl 2.0 to you guys, and about the combos the guy who said that combos are ruined got proven wrong by many people make videos about it, you guys have no solid ground to be complaining about something because most of you haven't played the game yet.

 

[Pazzo.]

Stop complaining. Either play the game or don't.

It seems that we complain a lot more about games than we actually enjoy them.. -_-

Seriously people. Just because you didn't get your Melee 2.0 doesn't mean that it's Brawl 2.0. It's neither. This is Smash 4, a completely new game that values off-stage chasing and follow-ups more than silly combos.

I apologize for coming off as abrasive, but a lot of users here need to grow up and work around problems instead of whining about them.

 

[The Light Music Club]

It seems that we complain a lot more about games than we actually enjoy them.. -_-

See I was complaining about the roster until I actually bought the game. Now I'm just whatever about it.

Sure I'm a bit annoyed but it won't stop me from enjoying the game.