New Survival Mechanic In Smash 4 - "Vectoring"

[DarkStar64]

I really don't see how this is going to be a HUGE problem like many people are making it out to be, but I guess if it is there is always the possibility of a patch that corrects the issue

I really just think a lot of people are jumping the gun on this the game has been out for a total of 10 days the metagame is pretty much a newborn baby lol we need more time to figure out how different mechanics work and discover new mechanics that may negate any problems vectoring may create.

Everyone just chill and enjoy Smash 4 in the meantime, IMO it's already 10x better than Brawl

 

[Deleted member]

all of u guise are huge nerds and u guyize need 2 sut up and play sum vidja

 

[Kamikam70]

It's a new path to VECTORY

 

[Kesno]

So just because you can't do a combo makes the game bad... Melee players

 

[JbrockPony]

I'm actually diggin the term 'Vectoring'. I'll sound even more intelligent near casuals lol.

 

[Gidy]

So just because you can't do a combo makes the game bad... Melee players

Comboing was something EVERYBODY was looking forward to. Imo, this is terrible for the meta of smash 4. If the meta is just a baby, I think our baby has a birth defect.

 

[κomıc]

I'm glad this gives people the ability to get out of potential combos. Seeing people trapped into a combo-lock isn't exciting for me. It is redundant and often goes one way.

 

[Gidy]

As it's been pointed out SEVERAL TIMES, its because you actually have to go offstage to get the kill now.

As in, get the **** out there, make sure that ***** is dead, then come back to stage.

Seriously, all the people complaining about how things dont kill, yet they arent willing to do what is needed for the kill is annoying.

True, but even some of the off stage air attacks aren't killing...

I'm glad this gives people the ability to get out of potential combos. Seeing people trapped into a combo-lock isn't exciting for me. It is redundant and often goes one way.

Again, there are plenty of defensive options in this game to avoid getting combo'd. It's your fault you get caught in one. Your character probably has combos of his/her own, so it's not the end of the game if you get caught.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

#basicallyDI

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

Guys, if you don't like this mechanic and you think it'll harm this game's competitive future, or even if you want something else like increased hitstun, you can tell Nintendo that. There are several Nintendo employees that work on this game that have Twitter accounts, such as Bill Trinen, JC, and even Sakurai himself. Not to mention the official Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Europe Twitter accounts. There are plenty of places to send your complaints to!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Guys, if you don't like this mechanic and you think it'll harm this game's competitive future, or even if you want something else like increased hitstun, you can tell Nintendo that. There are several Nintendo employees that work on this game that have Twitter accounts, such as Bill Trinen, JC, and even Sakurai himself. Not to mention the official Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Europe Twitter accounts. There are plenty of places to send your complaints to!

except it hardly harms the game, don't frenzy the blind masses who haven't played the game pls <3

 

[Mythra]

Why some people dislike the "Vectoring" term?, it's still some type of DI but it's technically something new too and deserves distinction, and lets face it....

it's impossible to escape from Math in life *evil Bowser Laugh*

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

except it hardly harms the game, don't frenzy the blind masses who haven't played the game pls <3

I wasn't trying to send everyone into a frenzy, haha. Just saying that if you want something about the game to be changed, there are plenty of ways to go about it. It's not like they'll listen to everyone's complaints immediately anyways.

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

SF2 and SF4 still have combos despite having a neutral game to them. For smash 4, part of the follow up game has been comboing up until now. It's no wonder why it's been enjoyable to watch.

I did in fact explicitly state that SF2 & 4 have combos, clearly I was not saying otherwise. However compared to Alpha and SF3 they are less hits per combo, less technical, and there are fewer true combos over all. Its analogous to the comparison to Smash4 and Melee.

If anyone can remember SF4's development period to first year, it was heavily criticized for "dumbing down" Street Fighter. Now look at it, SF4 is one of the more popular games in the fighting game community and tournaments. I'm not saying Smash4 will have the same kind of Cinderella story or that it'll replace Melee (I wouldn't want it to), all I'm saying is people should not jump on the doom&gloom bandwagon so easily.

 

[OptimistNic]

What if somebody gets grabbed and holds up to predict a down throw, but the opponent throws up instead, therefore making their upwards knockback even higher? There are new kinds of mind games to be toyed with here.

 

[ToadsterOven]

Interesting way to DI, but i think we didn't need this to see that the game could and probably will evolve into brawl 2. so it just comes down to this. you like brawl? you gonna love playing this game for the next 6 years. you like melee? you gonna play it for years any fu..king way. i mean is smash bros on the go and smash bros HD with the best roster ever ffs. Its a dream come true. But that will only take you so far before you go back cause once you MELEE…
NO…
ONCE YOU KNOW HOW TO MELEE.

NERFED FU..KING VERSIONS OF IT JUST DONT FEEL THE SAME.

Yeah, get that brawl redux crap out of here pretty please It's fine if you like Melee/Project M. What's NOT fine is you bashing rather unfairly on a game that's barely been out for a week in Japan and spreading misinformation about it with slanderous claims like "Brawl 2.0"

 

[Gidy]

I did in fact explicitly state that SF2 & 4 have combos, clearly I was not saying otherwise. However compared to Alpha and SF3 they are less hits per combo, less technical, and there are fewer true combos over all. Its analogous to the comparison to Smash4 and Melee.

If anyone can remember SF4's development period to first year, it was heavily criticized for "dumbing down" Street Fighter. Now look at it, SF4 is one of the more popular games in the fighting game community and tournaments. I'm not saying Smash4 will have the same kind of Cinderella story or that it'll replace Melee (I wouldn't want it to), all I'm saying is people should not jump on the doom&gloom bandwagon so easily.

I'm really sorry, man. I was reading on my iPhone and I guess I missed that.

Despite that, I feel like Smash 4 was originally SF2 to Melee being SF3 up until vectoring came. There we're some combo's, but none compared to Melee's. Now I feel like it's Brawl to Melee with some new ledge mechanics.

except it hardly harms the game, don't frenzy the blind masses who haven't played the game pls <3

Taking out about 85% of all potential combos in the game is definitely harming.

Guys, if you don't like this mechanic and you think it'll harm this game's competitive future, or even if you want something else like increased hitstun, you can tell Nintendo that. There are several Nintendo employees that work on this game that have Twitter accounts, such as Bill Trinen, JC, and even Sakurai himself. Not to mention the official Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Europe Twitter accounts. There are plenty of places to send your complaints to!

You see, If competitive players are against this and say something to Nintendo at Smash Clubs or possible future tournaments then I think they would consider patching this. They changed the game from what it was at the E3 build, so they can change it again.

Plus I think the false indication of the red mark is confusing to some people when it doesn't kill even though Sakurai said it indicates it will.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Taking out about 85% of all potential combos in the game is definitely harming.

not reading about the mechanic that supposedly harms the game when it DOESN'T is more harming :D

... Cancer.

 

[Gidy]

not reading about the mechanic that supposedly harms the game when it DOESN'T is more harming :D

... Cancer.

I've been eyeing the vector thread since it's started and looked at people's tests for combo's. They've came out combo potential-negative.

Even strongbad, the founder, says it takes out combo potential.

 

[JuanTendo]

Yeah, get that brawl redux crap out of here pretty please It's fine if you like Melee/Project M. What's NOT fine is you bashing rather unfairly on a game that's barely been out for a week in Japan and spreading misinformation about it with slanderous claims like "Brawl 2.0"

I just said ill play it for years and that it has the best graphics and roster of the franchise. how is that bashing it?
yo kid stop trying to pretend you understand **** what you are talking about ok?. Game mechanics are at plain sight and only kids that just joined smash boards and understand **** about this games don't understand them… **** this is why i never comment. there is always a ****ing kid ready to misinterpret what you say.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I've been eyeing the vector thread since it's started and looked at people's tests for combo's. They've came out combo potential-negative.

Even strongbad, the founder, says it takes out combo potential.

 

[Newt Floss]

If Nintendo is wanting to get more in touch with their community and host tournements, they should know that other game companies take feedback from their community to make a game better. Is it wrong that we want that?

I hope Nintendo never does that. That would be awful. Nintendo games are special because they're made by Nintendo and don't cater to a very vocal but small minority of their audience. That would be like me going to see a movie or watching a tv show because it scored well at a test screening. Nintendo wants to celebrate their fans but in no way do they want to be told what to do by their fans. That's never been their philosophy.

 

[Gidy]

I hope Nintendo never does that. That would be awful. Nintendo games are special because they're made by Nintendo and don't cater to a very vocal but small minority of their audience. That would be like me going to see a movie or watching a tv show because it scored well at a test screening. Nintendo wants to celebrate their fans but in no way do they want to be told what to do by their fans. That's never been their philosophy.

I would agree if they weren't trying to get in contact with their audience and host tournaments. Something like this being patched wouldn't affect the majority of their audience that isn't vocal either or the "specialness" in the game.

Edit: Also aren't they catering by asking people to help define the rules for Smash Clubs?

 

[WinterShorts]

all of u guise are huge nerds and u guyize need 2 sut up and play sum vidja

wut?

 

[Joe73191]

Look I don't know why people get upset when people use the term "Brawl 2.0" Some people really like Brawl and should be happy if the game turns out like Brawl.

I mean if you like Brawl you will love this game. Is that such a bad statement? Some people prefer Melee and didn't like Brawl and would prefer Smash 4 to be more like Melee. Is that such a terrible thing?

The game seems to me like the child of Brawl and Smash 64 to be honest. Though I will say that I would be willing to support, in ANY way they could possibly need, a team who is serious about making a Project M for Smash 4.

 

[Deleted member]

If the meta is just a baby, I think our baby has a birth defect.

yo kid stop trying to pretend you understand **** what you are talking about ok?. Game mechanics are at plain sight and only kids that just joined smash boards and understand **** about this games don't understand them… **** this is why i never comment. there is always a ****ing kid ready to misinterpret what you say.

So many intelligent people with so many intelligent things to say. It's like a freaking Mensa meeting!

 

[Gidy]

So many intelligent people with so many intelligent things to say. It's like a freaking Mensa meeting!

What? Please explain.

Also, from @Jaxas

"All tests performed on Link

Testing breaking out of the ZeRo combo

• VI Down + VI Away + Mash R: At 1st Uair
• VI Away + Mash R: At 1st Uair
• VI Up + VI Away + Mash R: At 1st Uair
• VI Up + Mash R: Last Utilt misses

Testing Meteor Smash Bounce on Stage Height

• Up VI, 70%: Higher than No VI
• No VI, 69%: Around Mario's jump height
• Down VI, 69%: Around Mario's Short Hop height
• Down VI on hit, No VI on bounce, 69%: Around Mario's Short Hop height"

 

[SchAlternate]

As far as I can understand, it just means that there will be less directions at which a player will be sent flying, but in its place, on can alter the knockback received, so to speak, if holding at the right direction.

...

How exactly does that influence this game's comboing in a harsh way?

 

[Zombie Saurian]

So just because you can't do a combo makes the game bad... Melee players

I also don't understand how comboing is skill. Causing the player to become immobile and unable to fight back is skill? Strange world.

 

[Rose alumna]

... ok ummmm nice to know ..... ummmm ..... okay

 

[Gidy]

I also don't understand how comboing is skill. Causing the player to become immobile and unable to fight back is skill? Strange world.

Does this mean that Project M and Melee take no skill? Like I said MANY times before, there are already enough defense options in the game so it's your fault you get caught in the first place. Plus if you get combo'd it doesn't stop you from coming back with one of your own combos so it's not the end of the game.

Even if combo's take no skill, which I don't believe, I would rather have them over a defensive neutral based game.

 

[FirestormNeos]

So... when sent off the stage, move the circle pad in the opposite direction to hopefully survive?

 

[KhanYe]

Excellent article, Khanye. This was very informative and easy to understand with clear examples. Or at least, as clear as can be illustrated for a brand-new mechanic without using a bunch of RAM-draining gifs.

Seems like this is neither good nor bad; it has both positive and negative aspects. On one hand, Smash 4 has a lot of low percentage combos to get people up to dangerous percents, but on the other hand, once they are put in a marginal amount of danger, the defender gains the ability to, well, more vehemently survive. People live longer in general, as a result. Thus, strong kill moves and gimps/spikes off stage are of the utmost importance. However, some characters like Robin and Palutena seem content to zone out opponents, racking up huge percentage, and killing with aerials - a different strategy with a similar, albeit more consistant result (as opposed to combo-heavy or rushdown/momentum characters).

Thanks dude :] Stuff like this makes writing worthwhile.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

I have been doing this since I started playing Smash, and I still do it for some reason :I

 

[paxinchristo]

So I'm a bit confused.

People are saying that vectoring takes away combos in this game, but doesn't SB's article say that vectoring (at least what he's found out about it so far) is less prominent at lower percents/with low damage moves? Given that most of the combos (true or mostly true) we've discovered so far are all at low percentages and are only possible with low damage moves like Sheik's f-tilt and fair and Mario's up-tilt and up-air, why are people worried about combos being lost?

Not trying to be snarky or start a flame war on this thread (there's enough of that already), I'm just genuinely curious.

 

[Wyntir]

Am I the only one who doesn't dig too deep into the "meta game "?

My opinion, I have not competed YET n my option could change but when I play.. My goal is to rack up damage so they don't have that chance to DI n stuff. Small knock back, sure, survival but big damage... SEE Ya!!!

 

[TTTTTsd]

What? Please explain.

Also, from @Jaxas

"All tests performed on Link

Testing breaking out of the ZeRo combo

• VI Down + VI Away + Mash R: At 1st Uair
• VI Away + Mash R: At 1st Uair
• VI Up + VI Away + Mash R: At 1st Uair
• VI Up + Mash R: Last Utilt misses

Testing Meteor Smash Bounce on Stage Height

• Up VI, 70%: Higher than No VI
• No VI, 69%: Around Mario's jump height
• Down VI, 69%: Around Mario's Short Hop height
• Down VI on hit, No VI on bounce, 69%: Around Mario's Short Hop height"

It was nice of you to omit the part where he said that it puts Link in a position to be followed up upon, or that it barely affects low % combos beyond the ZERO COMBO. Did you forget to read the rest of that? Do note that the ZeRo combo can be altered to make VI less effective by doing less utilts? Or are you going to sit there with set in stone stuff and not experiment? Up to you.

Not saying this to be a jerk, but you should never cut out important information from a post to attempt to leverage your statements because then it just looks bad.

 

[Crawfish]

Combos do not make up the bulk of competitive play. Good reads and mindgames do

i know, but combos are just exciting to me. they're really fun to do!
i really like smash 4! so i'm already trying to adapt the best i can.

ima b readin them air dodges all day every day son check out my impressive strings i know what you gon do next whattup m8.

but seriously, i'm not trying to say the game is bad, it's good!

 

[Thor]

Aerodrome and paxinchristo saying intelligent stuff and other people can't cope XD

It bears restating - it's functionally DI (escapes combos? Yeah DI does that. Lets you live longer? Yeah DI does that) and is actually less effective at low percents than DI, as paxinchristo pointed out.

 

[Gidy]

It was nice of you to omit the part where he said that it puts Link in a position to be followed up upon, or that it barely affects low % combos beyond the ZERO COMBO. Did you forget to read the rest of that? Do note that the ZeRo combo can be altered to make VI less effective by doing less utilts? Or are you going to sit there with set in stone stuff and not experiment? Up to you.

Not saying this to be a jerk, but you should never cut out important information from a post to attempt to leverage your statements because then it just looks bad.

If that's the case, then why are people saying that this cuts out on combo's even if they aren't the ZeRo combo?

Boy, today just isn't my day when it comes to reading and citing things . My apologies