New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Phostopheles]

Actually if characters are chosen for selective reasons it is to keep symmetry in the roster menu. Otherwise while some thought may be given to some of the extra circumstances. It is not the over riding reason. There is not some kind of Equal Opportunity law in place when it comes to character selection.

This is possible as well. But I can still almost guarantee you we won't see more than two new female reps and three villain reps.

 

[Oasis_S]

That's how games are decided, man. Did you think they throw these characters in half-hazardly? There are marketing rules that, either consciously or not, the developers stick to. And the rules so far have been "add a new female character or two" and "add a couple of villains." They can only add so many new characters, and of the newcomers, neither women or villains (or possibly even new franchises) must take plurality. Otherwise the average gamer will look at it and go, "huh, where are all the characters I wanted? why are there so many X? I'm not buying this."

That's all pretty much just been coincidence.

Also, the average gamer? They're going to pick it up and say "Ha! It's Mario fighting Link!" The original 8 starters is all the series really needs...

 

[OmegaXXII]

Actually if characters are chosen for selective reasons it is to keep symmetry in the roster menu. Otherwise while some thought may be given to some of the extra circumstances. It is not the over riding reason. There is not some kind of Equal Opportunity law in place when it comes to character selection.

I guess so, I see it like this as well to some extent of course.

 

[Phostopheles]

That's all pretty much just been coincidence.

Also, the average gamer? They're going to pick it up and say "Ha! It's Mario fighting Link!" The original 8 starters is all the series really needs...

Stick in Ridley, Medusa, K. Rool, Mewtwo, Black Shadow, Black Knight, and Claus, or Toon Zelda, Krystal, Ashley, Lip, Palutena, and Medusa, and players will be wondering where the hell Toad, Tingle, and Takamaru are. At some point you have to go by popularity and relevance, and the fact is that what gamers want, more than women for the sake of fanservice and feminist pandering, or villains for the sake of conflict, are X hero of X franchise, who is in all probability male. And there are quite a lot of franchises.

 

[---]

Well I just got back from doing work. I had to write out the entire Hiragana alphabet 10 times plus 4 other worksheets.

Anyway it seems Omega is now King Omega.

And it would seem we're arguing on both villians and the roster count. In my opinion, both are dumb and unarguable topics.

We all have our thoughts on the roster. For now, however, all we can guess is not how many characters there will be on the roster but which characters could be on the roster.

 

[SwayneGang]

@Phostopheles

There are truths to what you're saying, and I understand that. But you're almost making it sound too complicated. It all depends on what they [Sakurai and his staff] decide on. Like so:

- Is it time to give Ridley his due?
- Was it a mistake to exclude Roy?
- Can we give Ganondorf his own moveset?

These are just examples, but you get what I'm saying.

 

[Oasis_S]

Stick in Ridley, Medusa, K. Rool, Mewtwo, Black Shadow, Black Knight, and Claus, or Toon Zelda, Krystal, Ashley, Lip, Palutena, and Medusa, and players will be wondering where the hell Toad, Tingle, and Takamaru are. At some point you have to go by popularity and relevance, and the fact is that what gamers want, more than women for the sake of fanservice and feminist pandering, or villains for the sake of conflict, are X hero of X franchise, who is in all probability male. And there are quite a lot of franchises.

...But again you're making it sound like being villains/females is all they've got going for them. Most of those are popular/relevant on their own. Ridley, Medusa, K. Rool, Mewtwo, and Krystal at least. That still leaves plenty of room for other characters who HAPPEN TO BE MALE and HAPPEN TO BE HEROES and HAPPEN TO BE REQUESTED. :V

 

[OmegaXXII]

Well I just got back from doing work. I had to write out the entire Hiragana alphabet 10 times plus 4 other worksheets.

Anyway it seems Omega is now King Omega.

And it would seem we're arguing on both villians and the roster count. In my opinion, both are dumb and unarguable topics.

We all have our thoughts on the roster. For now, however, all we can guess is not how many characters there will be on the roster but which characters could be on the roster.

Yes, I believe ever roster isn't exactly accurate because such different factors and the fact that Sakurai's bias gets in the way of things, we can't ever know for sure who will be in or not.

and thanks haha!!

 

[Starphoenix]

This is possible as well. But I can still almost guarantee you we won't see more than two new female reps and three villain reps.

I'm not going to disagree there. Besides, if you look at it. There aren't many characters that fall under those categories that it would exceed those numbers.

 

[OmegaXXII]

@Phostopheles

There are truths to what you're saying, and I understand that. But you're almost making it sound too complicated. It all depends on what they [Sakurai and his staff] decide on. Like so:

- Is it time to give Ridley his due?
- Was it a mistake to exclude Roy?
- Can we give Ganondorf his own moveset?

These are just examples, but you get what I'm saying.

I agree that Ganon shold be given his moveset back, Roy, I could care less, give us Chrome instead, and Ridley is very likely so I don't doubt his chances so much at all.

 

[SwayneGang]

Stick in Ridley, Medusa, K. Rool, Mewtwo, Black Shadow, Black Knight, and Claus, or Toon Zelda, Krystal, Ashley, Lip, Palutena, and Medusa, and players will be wondering where the hell Toad, Tingle, and Takamaru are. At some point you have to go by popularity and relevance, and the fact is that what gamers want, more than women for the sake of fanservice and feminist pandering, or villains for the sake of conflict, are X hero of X franchise, who is in all probability male. And there are quite a lot of franchises.

And you're gonna have people like that anyway. I'll bet you that when we get the new Smash, someone is gonna be wondering "Why didn't this character make it?" or "How come we got so many female characters?" or "Why are there so few of this?" Shall I go on?

 

[OmegaXXII]

I see it now... please answer more questions and realize this, we are at in the pinnacle of discussion if this shall get in.

 

[Phostopheles]

@Phostopheles

There are truths to what you're saying, and I understand that. But you're almost making it sound too complicated. It all depends on what they [Sakurai and his staff] decide on. Like so:

- Is it time to give Ridley his due?
- Was it a mistake to exclude Roy?
- Can we give Ganondorf his own moveset?

These are just examples, but you get what I'm saying.

Exactly. It all depends on the sensibilities of a very small group of people. They are only attuned enough to the public's desires to know that they need to add a new character for Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon or it won't sell (probably two for Mario and Pokemon), that they need to add X number of new franchises to the game to keep the mutual advertising going, and that they need to add at least one new female and one new villain to avoid backlash. Besides that, they are completely in the dark. So what do they do? They stick to the known. They determine as best they can what the most popular characters should be, and if one of them is a female and one of them is a villain, and three of them is part of Mario/Zelda/Pokemon, and there are enough new franchise mains, that's what they go with. If there happens to be overlap and they end up with two or three villains or an extra female, that's okay.

Going even further beyond that, they are completely clueless. So what do they do? They stick to the safe. Sakurai adds two Kirby characters. He looks for retro characters that no one wanted but will accept because they're "historic." He grabs some third party MALE HEROES from very well-to-do franchises. But they don't want to overdo it or risk upsetting the aesthetic balance by which the game will ultimately be judged. So do we already have Krystal/Dixie/Medusa? Tough ****, Lip, we're going with Takamaru. Ridley/K. Rool/Mewtwo? Sorry Devil, better luck next time, Starfy will sell better.

 

[Starphoenix]

People need to stop putting characters into categories and look at them individually.

 

[Neontiger94]

I honestly don't see Sakurai being humble and putting in the effort to make Ridley playable. I mean I want to play as him, but I feel like it should have happened already

 

[SwayneGang]

I see it now... please answer more questions and realize this, we are at in the pinnacle of discussion if this shall get in.

.......Huh?????

 

[---]

People need to stop putting characters into categories and look at them individually.

Agreed, although does this count franchises?

 

[Oasis_S]

Sakurai adds characters that are popular and/or interesting/bring their own bit of individuality to the roster. :/

You're going about thinking of this in, NOT A COMPLETELY UNSOUND WAY, but I don't think it's especially applicable.

 

[Phostopheles]

And you're gonna have people like that anyway. I'll bet you that when we get the new Smash, someone is gonna be wondering "Why didn't this character make it?" or "How come we got so many female characters?" or "Why are there so few of this?" Shall I go on?

No they won't, because Nintendo is smarter than that. Take the path of least resistance, and that just happens to be male heroes of top-selling franchises. Of which there are plenty.

If Krystal or Mewtwo (or worse, Medusa) meant the difference between including Little Mac, or to provide a more improbable character, Saki or Starfy, you bet your sweet *** they wouldn't make it.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Whoa!! what is up with you??

 

[OmegaXXII]

People need to stop putting characters into categories and look at them individually.

As to why people do it, beats the heck out of me, characters should be determined by their own stature, which would merit them a slot, not exactly by franchise altogether.

 

[SwayneGang]

Exactly. It all depends on the sensibilities of a very small group of people. They are only attuned enough to the public's desires to know that they need to add a new character for Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon or it won't sell (probably two for Mario and Pokemon), that they need to add X number of new franchises to the game to keep the mutual advertising going, and that they need to add at least one new female and one new villain to avoid backlash. Besides that, they are completely in the dark. So what do they do? They stick to the known. They determine as best they can what the most popular characters should be, and if one of them is a female and one of them is a villain, and three of them is part of Mario/Zelda/Pokemon, and there are enough new franchise mains, that's what they go with. If there happens to be overlap and they end up with two or three villains or an extra female, that's okay.

Going even further beyond that, they are completely clueless. So what do they do? They stick to the safe. Sakurai adds two Kirby characters. He looks for retro characters that no one wanted but will accept because they're "historic." He grabs some third party MALE HEROES from very well-to-do franchises. But they don't want to overdo it or risk upsetting the aesthetic balance by which the game will ultimately be judged. So do we already have Krystal/Dixie/Medusa? Tough ****, Lip, we're going with Takamaru. Ridley/K. Rool/Mewtwo? Sorry Devil, better luck next time, Starfy will sell better.

OK, now you're sounding bias. And since the next Smash isn't all Sakurai, expect the roster to be unbalanced.

 

[SmashChu]

Agreed, although does this count franchises?

No, because that creates the rep problem. Forget about representing series and what not and think "Should this character be in Smash?"

 

[Deleted member]

@Phostopheles: Do we seriously need ten newcomers? There are many newcomers I want to see, but only seven that I feel I need for the roster to be good. A 10 newcomer situation with no cuts (45 slots) is not a bad thing and I'd be happy with this.

Also, I doubt that Sakurai is imposing some unheard limitations on how many villains will be in Smash. If Sakurai wants to add Bowser Jr., King K. Rool, Ridley, and Medusa to Smash (the four villains I consider to be likely) due to their own merit and not cut any villains out, he can.

 

[---]

No, because that creates the rep problem. Forget about representing series and what not and think "Should this character be in Smash?"

O.K. I'm loving this idea now.

But can we say that Sakurai follows this concept?

 

[Conviction]

Well I just got back from doing work. I had to write out the entire Hiragana alphabet 10 times plus 4 other worksheets.

Anyway it seems Omega is now King Omega.

And it would seem we're arguing on both villians and the roster count. In my opinion, both are dumb and unarguable topics.

We all have our thoughts on the roster. For now, however, all we can guess is not how many characters there will be on the roster but which characters could be on the roster.

そぅ です か？ にほんご を よく はなしますか？

No they won't, because Nintendo is smarter than that. Take the path of least resistance, and that just happens to be male heroes of top-selling franchises. Of which there are plenty.

If Krystal or Mewtwo (or worse, Medusa) meant the difference between including Little Mac, or to provide a more improbable character, Saki or Starfy, you bet your sweet *** they wouldn't make it.

**** got real.

 

[Phostopheles]

People need to stop putting characters into categories and look at them individually.

Individually, what ultimately matters is how iconic a character is, both with respect to characters within its own franchise, and with respect to other franchises. And females and villains are at a statistical disadvantage. There are still dozens of (male) heroes from unrepresented franchises that would be received more favorably than Krystal or Ridley. From a certain, large portion of the demographic, anyway.

Think of it in utilitarian terms. You have a limited number of characters you can add, and you need to select them to maximize reception of the game. The ultimate goal is to get as many new franchises represented as possible because that's where the most money can be made. But you still need to keep other demographics salivating over your product. What do? The Big Three fans want a new character for each, so you give them one. Just enough to satisfy, not enough to take away from more valuable characters. The girls will want a new female to play as. Give them one, and make it sexy so as to double as fanservice for the male demographic. The machos will want a new badass character. Give it to them; if it's a villain, it will also satisfy the turds who think every franchise needs a villain. The children want a new puffball, give it to them. The old-timers want a new retro character, give it to them. Spend a bit of money on a third party or two to snag some unrelated demographic. Great, more profit. Whatever's left goes to unrepresented Nintendo franchises.

It's not about giving the players everything they want...it's about giving the players barely enough that they'll still buy the freaking game.

 

[Starphoenix]

Agreed, although does this count franchises?

Smashchu already summed up how I'd have responed.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Good effort!!!

 

[Phostopheles]

@Phostopheles: Do we seriously need ten newcomers? There are many newcomers I want to see, but only seven that I feel I need for the roster to be good. A 10 newcomer situation with no cuts (45 slots) is not a bad thing and I'd be happy with this.

So there are only seven characters necessary to get you specifically to buy the game. We'll assume that a few of those could be missing and you'd still buy it. What about the millions of other people they want to target?

 

[SwayneGang]

No they won't, because Nintendo is smarter than that. Take the path of least resistance, and that just happens to be male heroes of top-selling franchises. Of which there are plenty.

If Krystal or Mewtwo (or worse, Medusa) meant the difference between including Little Mac, or to provide a more improbable character, Saki or Starfy, you bet your sweet *** they wouldn't make it.

All right then, you're next on this one. What would YOUR "realistic" roster consist of? Please be as thorough and specific as you want. We are all ears, dude.

 

[Shorts]

People need to stop putting characters into categories and look at them individually.

Listen to him.

This is possible as well. But I can still almost guarantee you we won't see more than two new female reps and three villain reps.

Male to female ratio in Smash is ******** and I want it to change. The only problem is, there isn't TOO MANY females who can hold up to the requirements smash has.

Krystal, Captain Syrup, Mona, Dixie and Lyn could probably do it though.

 

[SmashChu]

O.K. I'm loving this idea now.

But can we say that Sakurai follows this concept?

He seems too. I mean, there are three Star Fox characters while there is only one for Metroid.

He made 4 criteria for any character to be in the game.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Krystal, would she merit a slot??

 

[---]

そぅ です か？ にほんご を よく はなしますか？

Hai! (I haven't configured my computer to type Japanese yet nor do I remember enough to respond better).

It's boring as hell though. I've already taken 2 years of Japanese and already know how to write it. So all it's doing is making my writing arm sore.

As for the roster topic, what characters/possible characters fit this concept? And does Sakurai follow the concept?

 

[OmegaXXII]

As for the roster topic, what characters/possible characters fit this concept? And does Sakurai follow the concept?

Hmm.. in terms of what i may ask?

 

[Oasis_S]

Krystal, would she merit a role??

I believe she could add something new to her series in terms of... eh, atmosphere? and something new to the roster with her moveset.

Bonus for being female.

A Dinosaur Planet stage would be great as well.

She may not even "feel" like a Star Fox character at that point, but that's not a bad thing, lol.

 

[---]

Hmm.. in terms of what i may ask?

I ment the concept that Star and Smashchu were getting at. "Should this character be in Smash?"

 

[SwayneGang]

Krystal, would she merit a slot??

I think so. I remember when IGN did their "Smash it Up" installments, and they suggested Krystal w/ staff. They brought up a valid point. There really aren't many Nintendo characters that use pole-arms.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I think so. I remember when IGN did their "Smash it Up" installments, and they suggested Krystal w/ staff. They brought up a valid point. There really aren't many Nintendo characters that use pole-arms.

Yeah, and strange thing is that people don't take her chances very lightly, alot of bashing occurs and say she isn't worth it because of the number of rep, people need to base her on uniqueness and what she could provide as far as Smash goes, I say she has marginal to considerable chance at it.