New Smash Bros for WiiU

[vicgur]

Vaati? why do people like him/her? so much?

He has that "Paper Mario villain" charisma.
You know he won't be back in many games, but he is nice... So you always want more.

And I personally think he's the best non-Ganon villain in the Zelda series.

 

[Opelucid]

I never got why G&W was added I had no idea who he was when I unlocked him

 

[OmegaXXII]

Hmm. I see that...

He has that "Paper Mario villain" charisma.
You know he won't be back in many games, but he is nice... So you always want more.

Paper Mario you say? if he is like Paper Mario then i'm all up for it lol...

 

[OmegaXXII]

Ice Climber , R.O.B and G&W were included for being relics in nintendo history ,while Marth was added to give Fire Emblem a go worldwide and he is a relevant now.

Regardless though, relevance isn't exactly what determines a characters chances at all, look at Jigglypuff, she isn't relevant anymore, yet she is still in due to popularity and the fact that she established herself in Smash since the beginning.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Regardless though, relevance isn't exactly what determines a characters chances at all, look at Jigglypuff, she isn't relevant anymore, yet she is still in due to popularity and the fact that she established herself in Smash since the beginning.

you forgot the rule of the untouchable 12....but Legend of Zelda is a different franchise with different rules.....and I believe Skyward Sword is going to be very big that it will make Girahim big to.

 

[Conviction]

Ice Climbers aren't relevant nor are important to Nintendo's history like ROB and GnW are.

 

[Deleted member]

you forgot the rule of the untouchable 12....but Legend of Zelda is a different franchise with different rules.....and I believe Skyward Sword is going to be very big that it will make Girahim big to.

Every console Zelda game is a very big thing; this will be no exception.

Ghirahim will be "big", but it won't be enough for him to serve as Ganondorf's replacement. We are more likely to see Ghirahim take Toon Link's place then Ganondorf get the axe. Midna was "big" too back in the pre-Brawl hype days and we all saw how that turned out.

 

[OmegaXXII]

you forgot the rule of the untouchable 12....but Legend of Zelda is a different franchise with different rules.....and I believe Skyward Sword is going to be very big that it will make Girahim big to.

No, I object to this, the reason why I say so is because the original 12 arent necessarly protected, to be more specific Jigglypuff isn't, why? because he was orinally going to be scapped in brawl hence why he was added so late in development, why would Sakurai do that if he were part of the original 12, while I think Jiggs is likely to return I also don't see her as "guaranteed" by any means, Ganon wasn't in such a situation because he was never planned to be cut to begin with.

Also, I don't see a problem with Ghirahim and Ganondorf co-existing, you state it as if Ghirahim will incorporate Ganon's moveset or something which i doubt, the way I see it is like so..

Link (shoe in)
Zelda/Sheik (shoe-in)
Y.Link/Toon link (either one)
Ganondorf (main antagonist of the Zelda series, iconic as well, has been in Smash)
Ghirahim/Tingle

I'd say it would be a fifth slot if anything since Zelda is a big franchise much like Pokemon and Mario are, it's also demanded by fans as well.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Every console Zelda game is a very big thing; this will be no exception.

Ghirahim will be "big", but it won't be enough for him to serve as Ganondorf's replacement. We are more likely to see Ghirahim take Toon Link's place then Ganondorf get the axe. Midna was "big" too back in the pre-Brawl hype days and we all saw how that turned out.

Am I getting to you guys ? Ganondorf had certain factors that been the key of his inclusion but 2 of these factors is missing: relevancy and no-updated design.

 

[army man]

Ice Climbers aren't relevant nor are important to Nintendo's history like ROB and GnW are.

i know for a "fact" they won't be cut though

 

[OmegaXXII]

Am I getting to you guys ? Ganondorf had certain factors that been the key of his inclusion but 2 of these factors is missing: relevancy and no-updated design.

No, not really, relevance isn't the primary factor at all.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

No, not really, relevance isn't the primary factor at all.

For Legend of Zelda it's a primary factor I believe.

 

[Deleted member]

Am I getting to you guys ? Ganondorf had certain factors that been the key of his inclusion but 2 of these factors is missing: relevancy and no-updated design.

Relevancy isn't needed for a vet to return. If it did matter, Ness, Jigglypuff, and others would have been gone in Brawl.

And I fail to see why they need an updated design in a mainstream game to return.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Relevancy isn't needed for a vet to return. If it did matter, Ness, Jigglypuff, and others would have been gone in Brawl.

And I fail to see why they need an updated design in a mainstream game to return.

I might be wrong but dissing all the factors is wrong to with these factors being absent it's something to look out for. So even MR.Ganondor isn't safe from the axe just for the fact that these factors are absent.

 

[SwayneGang]

@SSBF: I still want Midna. That's not changing for me.

@Ike: I sense anger in your posts... you alright?

@Omega: Reminding you again in regards to my post a few days ago.


And this came to me today. It's another Mario rep, but.... well, I'll just quote something of his: "I HAVE CHORTLES!"

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

@SSBF: I still want Midna. That's not changing for me.

@Ike: I sense anger in your posts... you alright?

@Omega: Reminding you again in regards to my post a few days ago.


And this came to me today. It's another Mario rep, but.... well, I'll just quote something of his: "I HAVE CHORTLES!"

Well I'm not angry but guess the fact you see me dissing ganondorf gives you that feeling.

 

[Oasis_S]

OMEGA.

I'm not sure if you shared this VISION, but do you at least remember how I (surely others) saw the Black Knight as on the extreme end of the big, heavy, slow, and powerful spectrum?

That he would be the slowest, laggiest character. Overall the most powerful in terms of knockback and damage. Most moves would have super armor. Balls air game and recovery. Oh, and great range with his giant sword. I think that was about it in terms of CONCEPT?

NOT NECESSARILY TO OMEGA: Would such a concept work well if given instead to GANONDORF? Obviously, you would need to throw in some dark magic attacks as well.

I just really want a character like that. *KICKS DUST*


Also lol@Ike-sama.

 

[OmegaXXII]

For Legend of Zelda it's a primary factor I believe.

Not really, but it does play a role.

Also, design does not matter, look at Sheik, her last appearrance was in OOT I believe, yet Sakurai created a TP version of her for Brawl even though Sheik never appeared it Twilight Princess, why wouldn't Ganondorf receive such treatmant? especially since he's a Zelda Icon next to Link and Zelda, why wouldn't he?

 

[Starphoenix]

Changing the topic before things get out of hand.

Miscellaneous stages that don't have playable character representation. Discuss.

I'd say most of the B-list series stand a good chance of having a stage. Regardless of whether they have a corresponding character or not. This would include Custom Robo, Legendary Starfy, Sin and Punishment, and Golden Sun. WuHu Island could also fall into this category. Though it is not from a B-list series.

Other stages I would consider would be a Flipnote Hatena stage, an Art Style stage, a Nintendo console based stage and/or Mii Plaza.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Why... why would anyone, anyone even think that Ganondorf of all people has even the slightest chance of getting cut?

 

[army man]

Swayne:
NOT HIM, I DESPISE THAT GUY, lol i wouldn't mind really, she would be unique at least

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Not really, but it does play a role.

Also, design does not matter, look at Sheik, her last appearrance was in OOT I believe, yet Sakurai created a TP version of her for Brawl even though Sheik never appeared it Twilight Princess, why wouldn't Ganondorf receive such treatmant? especially since he's a Zelda Icon next to Link and Zelda, why wouldn't he?

Well I think timeline does matter to and this Link doesn't fight Ganondorf as a main villain.

 

[SwayneGang]

Well I'm not angry but guess the fact you see me dissing ganondorf gives you that feeling.

It's all good. You just came out swinging all of a sudden, so that's why I asked.

Swayne:
NOT HIM, I DESPISE THAT GUY, lol i wouldn't mind really, she would be unique at least

Thank goodness you changed your post. I wasn't referring to Cackletta.

 

[Phostopheles]

Why... why would anyone, anyone even think that Ganondorf of all people has even the slightest chance of getting cut?

Holy **** guys. I just had a really terrible idea. As long as there are villains to fight, does it matter how many and which?

What if we're only getting a roster of around 40 characters and they replaced most of the villains to keep the hero:villain ratio the same?

Would you still buy SSB4 if instead of Ganondorf, Wario, Dedede, and Wolf, we got Ridley, Medusa, K. Rool, and Mewtwo/Black Shadow/Masked Man?

 

[Deleted member]

Holy **** guys. I just had a really terrible idea. As long as there are villains to fight, does it matter how many and which?

What if we're only getting a roster of around 40 characters and they replaced most of the villains to keep the hero:villain ratio the same?

Would you still buy Brawl if instead of Ganondorf, Wario, Dedede, and Wolf, we got Ridley, Medusa, K. Rool, and Mewtwo/Black Shadow/Masked Man?

Bolded for emphasis. Yes it is a terrible idea.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Why... why would anyone, anyone even think that Ganondorf of all people has even the slightest chance of getting cut?

I don't know, beats the heck out of me.

OMEGA.

I'm not sure if you shared this VISION, but do you at least remember how I (surely others) saw the Black Knight as on the extreme end of the big, heavy, slow, and powerful spectrum?

That he would be the slowest, laggiest character. Overall the most powerful in terms of knockback and damage. Most moves would have super armor. Balls air game and recovery. Oh, and great range with his giant sword. I think that was about it in terms of CONCEPT?

NOT NECESSARILY TO OMEGA: Would such a concept work well if given instead to GANONDORF? Obviously, you would need to throw in some dark magic attacks as well.

I just really want a character like that. *KICKS DUST*[/size

Well, if you're saying the Ganondorf would be powerful, yet slow then I guess so, I just brought the whole Dark Magic idea up since it very well takes aspects and makes ganondorf more true I dare say, I would still like him to be much like he has been just not horrible in terms of balance.

@SSBF: I still want Midna. That's not changing for me.

@Ike: I sense anger in your posts... you alright?

@Omega: Reminding you again in regards to my post a few days ago.

Let me see the post again and I will look into it.

 

[Phostopheles]

Bolded for emphasis. Yes it is a terrible idea.

So is tripping.

 

[SwayneGang]

Holy **** guys. I just had a really terrible idea. As long as there are villains to fight, does it matter how many and which?

What if we're only getting a roster of around 40 characters and they replaced most of the villains to keep the hero:villain ratio the same?

Would you still buy Brawl if instead of Ganondorf, Wario, Dedede, and Wolf, we got Ridley, Medusa, K. Rool, and Mewtwo/Black Shadow/Masked Man?

That doesn't make sense; the "ratio" part. Technically, there's more hero characters than villain characters in Smash. What you're suggesting doesn't change anything.

 

[Phostopheles]

That doesn't make sense; the "ratio" part. Technically, there's more hero characters than villain characters in Smash. What you're suggesting doesn't change anything.

Of course it makes sense. There will be more heroes than villains in any fighter game. But they can't stray too far from the magic ratio. They wouldn't add 10 villains and 1 hero to a game, if you get my drift. The villain to hero ratio in Brawl is 5:30 (6:30 if you give Lucario and Meta Knight each half a point). The villain to hero ratio in Melee was 3:22. If we get a roster of 45 and hold to this pattern and even be a little generous and say the ratio will be around .18, that only gives us 8 villains. 3 new slots. Roughly the amount added for Brawl.

But what if it's less? What if we only get a roster of 35-40 with a significant number of cuts? That only leaves room for 6/7 villains. Not enough room for Ridley AND Medusa AND K. Rool AND Bowser Jr. AND AND AND. Toon Link and Ike aside, I'd be willing to bet some villains will get the axe. Granted, I think that Wolf would be the first to go, but I'm not sure if Ganondorf's relevancy puts him in a better position. He's still cloney.

I'm just playing devil's advocate, guys, I honestly don't want any of this to happen.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I'm liking it thus far.

 

[SwayneGang]

Let me see the post again and I will look into it.

Here it is: What would your "realistic" roster consist of? List series, number of, and names of characters. Have someone on there people may be confused about? Feel free to explain why you think they would be good choices.

No time limit, but when you post your response, please KEEP THIS TOPIC GOING. Thank you.

Of course it makes sense. There will be more heroes than villains in any fighter game. But they can't stray too far from the magic ratio. They wouldn't add 10 villains and 1 hero to a game, if you get my drift.

Yeah, sorry. I misunderstood.

 

[Oasis_S]

I'm not sure why you make the distinction though, Phospholipids. Ridley, K. Rool, Medusa, and Mewtwo are popular/relevant/important/demanded/WHATEVER on their own merits. Not just because they're villains (THOUGH BEING THE MAIN VILLAIN CERTAINLY MAKES ONE STAND OUT). They're all interesting characters with plenty to offer to the roster. I don't see how "too many villains" should be a limitation.

That may not have been the point you were trying to make, but you've mentioned something similar before AND IT IS VERY STRANGE. :V

 

[Phostopheles]

I'm not sure why you make the distinction though, Phospholipids. Ridley, K. Rool, Medusa, and Mewtwo are popular/relevant/important/demanded/WHATEVER on their own merits. Not just because they're villains (THOUGH BEING THE MAIN VILLAIN CERTAINLY MAKES ONE STAND OUT). They're all interesting characters with plenty to offer to the roster. I don't see how "too many villains" should be a limitation.

That may not have been the point you were trying to make, but you've mentioned something similar before AND IT IS VERY STRANGE. :V

The question we need to be asking is are they popular/important enough that they present a threat to the current villains? Female reps will always make up a limited percentage of a roster and essentially compete amongst themselves for a slot, primarily because the target demographic has always been predominantly male. I could go into this further, but villains are in a similar position in that they simply aren't as iconic as both the heroes of their own franchises and the heroes of other franchises. Bowser would never have gotten in over Mario, nor would he have ever gotten in over Pikachu or Link. Wario would never have gotten in over Mario OR Bowser, nor would ever gotten in over Pikachu, Mewtwo, Link, or Ganondorf.

So, the question is, have the tables turned? Is Ridley really THAT demanded and relevant that they'd be okay letting Wolf go? Is simply the demand for villainous variety, that there be ANY new villain with an original moveset enough that Ganondorf might be cut? Will we ever see Ganondorf again in a main Zelda title?

 

[Oasis_S]

You're acting like the villains are competing with one another though simply due to being villains. The ladies too, apparently. :/

WE'RE NOT TRYING TO FILL QUOTAS HERE.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Here it is: What would your "realistic" roster consist of? List series, number of, and names of characters. Have someone on there people may be confused about? Feel free to explain why you think they would be good choices.

No time limit, but when you post your response, please KEEP THIS TOPIC GOING. Thank you.

hmm.. good question, I will briefly write something up so expect to see it in a bit.

 

[SwayneGang]

But what if it's less? What if we only get a roster of 35-40 with a significant number of cuts? That only leaves room for 6/7 villains. Not enough room for Ridley AND Medusa AND K. Rool AND Bowser Jr. AND AND AND. Toon Link and Ike aside, I'd be willing to bet some villains will get the axe. Granted, I think that Wolf would be the first to go, but I'm not sure if Ganondorf's relevancy puts him in a better position. He's still cloney.

I'm just playing devil's advocate, guys, I honestly don't want any of this to happen.

We don't know how many playable characters we'll get, let alone who's guaranteed, cut, or even considered. I highly doubt it'll be a lesser number than what Brawl offered; down-sizing the roster back to the 20's again would be ludicrous. But right now, we have no facts. I'm resting on the assumption that we'll get at least 40 playable characters. I personally want 50+, but on here, that's pushing my luck.

 

[Phostopheles]

You're acting like the villains are competing with one another though simply due to being villains. The ladies too, apparently. :/

WE'RE NOT TRYING TO FILL QUOTAS HERE.

That's how games are decided, man. Did you think they throw these characters in half-hazardly? There are marketing rules that, either consciously or not, the developers stick to. And the rules so far have been "add a new female character or two" and "add a couple of villains." They can only add so many new characters, and of the newcomers, neither women or villains (or possibly even new franchises) must take plurality. Otherwise the average gamer will look at it and go, "huh, where are all the characters I wanted? why are there so many X? I'm not buying this."

 

[OmegaXXII]

Hm.. okay, i'm almost done so....

We don't know how many playable characters we'll get, let alone who's guaranteed, cut, or even considered. I highly doubt it'll be a lesser number than what Brawl offered; down-sizing the roster back to the 20's again would be ludicrous. But right now, we have no facts. I'm resting on the assumption that we'll get at least 40 playable characters. I personally want 50+, but on here, that's pushing my luck.

THIS!!

Pretty much how I see things as of now, nothing can be fact until its presented to us by SORA or Nintendo.

 

[Phostopheles]

We don't know how many playable characters we'll get, let alone who's guaranteed, cut, or even considered. I highly doubt it'll be a lesser number than what Brawl offered; down-sizing the roster back to the 20's again would be ludicrous. But right now, we have no facts. I'm resting on the assumption that we'll get at least 40 playable characters. I personally want 50+, but on here, that's pushing my luck.

Exactly, I completely agree with this. But, to use an extreme example, you can't sell a Smash with a roster of 40 and not make cuts. Who the hell would buy a game with only 5 new characters? It's simply not going to happen. They added 12/13 "new" characters to Melee, 7/8 if you don't count clones. They added 13/16 "new" characters to Brawl, 10/13 if you don't count clones, but they had to cut SEVEN characters to cut the roster to a manageable size while still having a suitable amount of new content.

I'm still banking on around 45 characters, and to do that, Nintendo will have to cut some fat, because 10 new characters simply won't cut it.

 

[Starphoenix]

Actually if characters are chosen for selective reasons it is to keep symmetry in the roster menu. Otherwise while some thought may be given to some of the extra circumstances. It is not the over riding reason. There is not some kind of Equal Opportunity law in place when it comes to character selection.