New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Oasis_S]

Hmmm. So Aounuma is pretty proud of Ghirahim then? I'm not sure where exactly I read it, but I believe Sakurai once he had little to do with the LoZ characters in Brawl. It's a bit of a question on how to interpret that, but with a series as large as LoZ, it's to be expected that Nintendo would be strict with its representation. If Aounuma wants Ghirahim to be ...REMEMBERED? Then perhaps putting him in Sm4sh would be part of his agenda?

 

[Starphoenix]

Hmmm. So Aounuma is pretty proud of Ghirahim then? I'm not sure where exactly I read it, but I believe Sakurai once he had little to do with the LoZ characters in Brawl. It's a bit of a question on how to interpret that, but with a series as large as LoZ, it's to be expected that Nintendo would be strict with its representation. If Aounuma wants Ghirahim to be ...REMEMBERED? Then perhaps putting him in Sm4sh would be part of his agenda?

I'd say they are. It seems they feel they have created a great character and villain in Ghirahim. I will say he is definitely unique with his flamboyant, aristocratic yet sadistic personality. Just from fighting alone he doesn't seem to lack material that could be implemented into Smash Bros. Again, it is just a matter of seeing how the fans receive both the game and it's characters. Remember, Sakamoto was rather proud of Other M. The fans turned around and chewed that game to pieces.

 

[SmashChu]

If Aounuma wants Ghirahim to be ...REMEMBERED? Then perhaps putting him in Sm4sh would be part of his agenda?

That is true. Once your in Smash, you are remembered forever. (Think Roy).

 

[OmegaXXII]

Ghirahim is cool and I support him!

 

[Oasis_S]

AAAA. Don't remind me, Star. Pretty much guarantees we'll be seeing Other M all up in our Smash.

Would be nice if Mario, LoZ, and Pokemon could have six slots so we could have Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Tingle, Ghirahim, Zoroark/Victini, Mewtwo, and no cuts for those series. MUCH LESS WORRYING FOR US.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Yup, his story in SS is looking quite good actually, it's a given.

 

[Metal Overlord]

This stage should be in Smash 4.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Haha seems you can't ever be convinced of something unless Star approved of it.~~

 

[MechaWave]

Keep on quoting. ♪

 

[OmegaXXII]

Wow, what stage is that from??

@Mecha: Why lol??

 

[Starphoenix]

Which is why I have always stated that Smash Bros is one of the best promotional tools out there. Let us be honest with ourselves. There is no disputing that at least with two series this is the case. Sakurai is even honest about how controlling The Pokémon Company is over their content. Why do you think so many random third party directors and producers are so open about how cool it would be to have their character guest in a Smash Bros title? Because they are not stupid. Realizing that Smash Bros is a great way to introduce a series or character to millions of people that would otherwise never even encounter said game. It is because of this that I have made shocking claims in the past, such as my strong defense of the Dragon Quest series. Should Smash Bros become what Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 has? No. On top of that I don't think Sakurai would allow it. Yet he does not seem to mind the occasional request. It is a balance, and so far Nintendo has walked that rope successfully. I do not expect much change.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Good points, I see.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Wow, what stage is that from??

@Mecha: Why lol??

Rainbow Road from Mario Kart.

I don't see why anyone would have any beef with SSBF. He's a cool dude in my books at least.

 

[MechaWave]

That's nice. I have my reasons that unfortunately I cannot disclose nor will I.

Sorry to wilt the current conversation into my recent announcement, it's something I felt should be notified.

Just for the record I do not dislike him.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Rainbow Road from Mario Kart.

I don't see why anyone would have any beef with SSBF. He's a cool dude in my books at least.

Rainbow Road? Yeah it would be nice, although I prefer to see Bowser's Castle or City Escape instead.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Rainbow Road? Yeah it would be nice, although I prefer to see Bowser's Castle or City Escape instead.

Bowser's Castle should definitely get in. Bowser should have his own victory theme, as well.

I'd love City Escape as well, and although there are other SA2 stages that I would prefer over it (Metal Harbor or Pyramid Cave), City Escape fits Modern Sonic the best out of all of them.

 

[Deleted member]

@MechaWave: What did I do wrong?

If you absolutely must disclose it to me via PM, then I will be glad to hear it.

 

[Phostopheles]

I know I said I was going to discuss Ghirahim in depth, but to be quite honest I really do not feel like doing a large write up at this time. So I will simply condense a few points and go from there.

I've heard from Nintendo for awhile how story driven this title will be and how new characters such as Ghirahim are going to be fleshed out more than other characters in series past. After bringing up what I did earlier in regards to the cutscenes; it is not so hard for me to believe this game will do anything less than what Miyamoto and Aounuma have stated. Ghirahim is being designed to be both memorable, significant, and different. Aounuma stating that his conception was to have a villain that contrasts Ganondorf. So I do not feel he is going to fall into the category of the other one hit blunders. Being either extremely shallow or overshadowed by Ganondorf/Ganon. Ghirahim looks to set himself apart from not only the villains within his own series, but Nintendo's universe in general. How he is received will be up to both the development team and the fans.

Another note, only appearing in one game is not a negative. I know the common train of thought says otherwise, but it is not. The only question is how much of an impact did they make with the role they had? Which is also is affected by how well the title itself performs.

Feel free to nitpick. I will further elaborate on points as requested.

I will give the character the benefit of the doubt, since we really don't know anything about SS's plot. There is a very slim chance that he ends up becoming just as relevant to the Zelda series as the main three. But I think quite likely this is all just hype. Everyone said the same thing about Zant and Midna when TP came out, and they were just one-shots. Granted, arguably interesting one-shots, but nothing worth putting in a legacy game like Smash.

When I think of adding characters, I primarily consider staying power, whether they will be relevant five years from now when the next smash game comes out. For every series beyond Pokemon and Fire Emblem, this system seems to work. And this is where Ghirahim, Zant, and Midna just don't fit.

Sheik and Young Link had already stayed relevant years before Melee was made...five or ten, it doesn't matter, OoT and MM remain the pinnacle of the N64 era and keeping them in is a nod to Nintendo's history. Toon Link was added as essentially an upgraded Young Link, but they wouldn't have done that if he hadn't already made a HUGE contribution to the Zelda franchise, spawning several popular games...so while I hate the **** out of him he could still be in smash ten years from now and still be relevant as a nod to when Zelda was cute and ********.

We know who Midna and Zant are, but they still have yet to appear in further Zelda games like Tingle or Skull Kid or Vaati, and TP, though a solid game that I admire on many levels, just doesn't stick out in the series. Now apply this to Ghirahim. We know nothing about him, he has no reputation except for being an effeminate creep, much in the vein of Zant. In fact, I'd call him gay Zant, because really I don't see him, don't WANT him becoming any more relevant to the franchise than Zant. This is not how you design an arch villain, this is how you design an underling. Unless Nintendo is stupidly optimistic that Skyward Sword will be the next Ocarina of Time, which I highly HIGHLY doubt, there is simply no reason to put Ghirahim in. He has no legacy as of yet.

I believe the strongest influence Skyward Sword will have on SSB4 is the updated character models and the addition of a new stage. No new characters.

 

[MechaWave]

@MechaWave: What did I do wrong?

Nothing.

You just have a pet peeve that is on my pet peeve list. Many others in this thread has this as well but not to a certain severity.

Annoying ≠ dislike, btw.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Bowser's Castle should definitely get in. Bowser should have his own victory theme, as well.

I'd love City Escape as well, and although there are other SA2 stages that I would prefer over it (Metal Harbor or Pyramid Cave), City Escape fits Modern Sonic the best out of all of them.

I agree, Bowser would be rock awesome if that happened.

City Escape definetly suits modern sonic so yea...stage hazards could be incorporated I guess.

I want fourside and it's theme back very much, if not Saffron City.

 

[Phostopheles]

Rainbow Road? Yeah it would be nice, although I prefer to see Bowser's Castle or City Escape instead.

I thought Mario Circuit was a good iconic choice for Brawl, but I disagree. We NEED Rainbow Road. It's the only unique track besides Mario Circuit that has been in every Mario Kart, and infinitely cooler.

A Bowser's Castle stage would be great as well, but that I see being taken directly from the Mario series, not from its spinoffs.

 

[Starphoenix]

I thought Mario Circuit was a good iconic choice for Brawl, but I disagree. We NEED Rainbow Road. It's the only track besides Mario Circuit that has been in every Mario Kart, and infinitely cooler.

I see Rainbow Road being the next "successor" stage.

 

[Phostopheles]

I see Rainbow Road being the next "successor" stage.

Great minds think alike. ^5

 

[Deleted member]

AAAA. Don't remind me, Star. Pretty much guarantees we'll be seeing Other M all up in our Smash.

Would be nice if Mario, LoZ, and Pokemon could have six slots so we could have Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Tingle, Ghirahim, Zoroark/Victini, Mewtwo, and no cuts for those series. MUCH LESS WORRYING FOR US.

I'd be happy with five slots for Mario and five slots for Pokemon, but six would be nice for both series. I'm also okay with Zelda getting a fifth slot, thought a sixth one isn't necessary at all.

 

[Starphoenix]

Great minds think alike. ^5

If it is anything like how my stage concept came along. I'd be happy.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Bah, whatever, I still want Bowser's Castle from SMB the most.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'd be happy with five slots for Mario and five slots for Pokemon, but six would be nice for both series. I'm also okay with Zelda getting a fifth slot, thought a sixth one isn't necessary at all.

Even if Mario, Zelda, and Pokémon had six slots each. In a roster of 52 it would only be 35% of the entire roster. For what it is worth.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I thought Mario Circuit was a good iconic choice for Brawl, but I disagree. We NEED Rainbow Road. It's the only unique track besides Mario Circuit that has been in every Mario Kart, and infinitely cooler.

A Bowser's Castle stage would be great as well, but that I see being taken directly from the Mario series, not from its spinoffs.

I meant the canon games lol

 

[y.toonlink]

I somewhat agree with getting new representation, I do say that Jiggs is likely to return but I also wouldn't mind getting a new one such as Meowth or any other Pokemon instead.

As for characters having popularity internationally, I believe it's safe to say that Sakurai only bases popularity based on Japan, it's sad since he is ruling out the western region and thus a characters chances really aren't "real" since Sakurai most likely bases his decision of a poll based from it, I for one hope he would take a different approach and expand worldwide in order to have a more accurate approach as to who is truly demanded by everyone, not just Japan.

From a while ago, I fell asleep
Jiggs I believe has a 60% chance to get it, not exactly 100. We don't know Sakurai's strategy this time around, so he may go with what he did in Brawl and add Mewtwo instead of Jiggs (or another Pokemon).
Pokemon fans would of course love to see 5th gen rep playable. The general public (I'm being biasd here) only cares about the 1st gen because it's what's "in" and the 5th gen is "too different". Whoever Sakurai deems more important will determine who are playable.

I agree with you that Sakurai should give the west more involvement. It can, like Melee, bring something western to Japan as FE did (which I loved since I started playing it ). I'm not sure if we that much to give but it's an idea

 

[Phostopheles]

If it is anything like how my stage concept came along. I'd be happy.

It could work, methinks. The downside of that setup is that you really don't get a feel for the series...so far all the racing tracks we've had involved traveling the track in some form.

1) Basically Mute City, but with Rainbow Road. Pretty easy visualization, and since Mute City probably won't come back because everyone loves Big Blue so much, it could essentially replace that stage.

2) Think the Adventure Mode Mute City from Melee, only scrolling like Big Blue. But faster scrolling, like twice the speed of Mushroomy Kingdom. To compensate, the characters' running speed are increased significantly, and the blast zone is given a wider range in case they run offscren. Cars go by just like in Mario Circuit, and the track, though not too curvy, includes a drop at some point, a cannon tube, (not sure how you'd implement a jump, but I think a few gaps would be necessary just to create the feel of RR), etc.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Yup yup, I see.

 

[Starphoenix]

It could work, methinks. The downside of that setup is that you really don't get a feel for the series...so far all the racing tracks we've had involved traveling the track in some form.

1) Basically Mute City, but with Rainbow Road. Pretty easy visualization, and since Mute City probably won't come back because everyone loves Big Blue so much, it could essentially replace that stage.

2) Think the Adventure Mode Mute City from Melee, only scrolling like Big Blue. But faster scrolling, like twice the speed of Mushroomy Kingdom. To compensate, the characters' running speed are increased significantly, and the blast zone is given a wider range in case they run offscren. Cars go by just like in Mario Circuit, and the track, though not too curvy, includes a drop at some point, a cannon tube, (not sure how you'd implement a jump), etc.

Actually the reason I did not go with that setup for Rainbow Road is because I already had "Mute City"-esque setups in other stage concepts I did. I try to keep all my concepts congruent with each other.

 

[Phostopheles]

The general public (I'm being biasd here) only cares about the 1st gen because it's what's "in" and the 5th gen is "too different". Whoever Sakurai deems more important will determine who are playable.

It was never out. The problem is that after second gen it became increasingly apparent we were never going to catch 'em all, and that the quality of the Pokemon we were expected to catch dramatically decreased in conceptual value. I can **** out better Pokemon than some of the refuse in the newer generations, and I don't even consider my ideas worth a damn.

Look at the movies. The first one had a THEATRICAL release in the U.S., and was essentially what made Mewtwo THE definitive Pokemon villain. The second one also gained theatrical release and made Lugia a Pokemon staple. Every movie after that was only released on DVD in the U.S., and frankly the animation started taking a turn for the worst around that time. No one watched those movies, no one wanted to watch those movies. As such, the only people who think characters like Celebi, Lucario, and Zoroark are worth a damn in the U.S. are Pokefreaks who hang onto every scrap of merchandise they can find. To the rest of us who stopped putting up with Nintendo's neverending series of bull****, those character have no personality, they're just the Pokemon du jour that we never wanted, and that everyone will forget about a few months from now. Mewtwo continues to be popular because he had a movie at a time when Pokemon still had a reputable fanbase.

But yes, I'd say that not even Jigglypuff is 100% safe. Granted, I think she's the least likely to be cut of the Pokemon reps after Pikachu, but it ultimately comes down to the whims of a very fickle and eccentric man.

 

[Phostopheles]

Actually the reason I did not go with that setup for Rainbow Road is because I already had "Mute City"-esque setups in other stage concepts I did. I try to keep all my concepts congruent with each other.

Ah, I see. And F-Zero could definitely use another stage.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I would love a new F-Zero, but what stage would it be?

 

[Starphoenix]

Ah, I see. And F-Zero could definitely use another stage.

Yeah I did the "Mute City" routine with my Sin and Punishment stage.

I would love a new F-Zero, but what stage would it be?

Red Canyon.

This is why I enjoy having done these. It gives people a better idea of how each stage could function. Or it gets them thinking of their own ideas. I stages. <3

 

[Oasis_S]

I stages. <3

GET A ROOM.

Does your woman know of this?!

 

[Starphoenix]

GET A ROOM.

Does your woman know of this?!

*shrugs*

I told everyone my favorite aspect of Smash Bros are the stages. Although I did take down my Golden Sun stage concept so I can rework it. Since I'm playing through Golden Sun at the moment I wanted to do the stage better justice.

Women is not his forté.

O_o?

 

[Phostopheles]

Yeah I did the "Mute City" routine with my Sin and Punishment stage.



Red Canyon.

This is why I enjoy having done these. It gives people a better idea of how each stage could function. Or it gets them thinking of their own ideas. I stages. <3

I really like both of these concepts, and neither of them conflict with my second idea. There is hope!

 

[MechaWave]

GET A ROOM.

Does your woman know of this?!

Women is not his forté.