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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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Opossum

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Opossum. I would like to know more about your silly debate. :I

It involves Ridley and K. Rool which I find more interesting than Mega Man. :awesome:
Well, I'll start with K. Rool, since that one was odd. He said that a reason for not including him was that we already have a short range villain (Ganondorf), a long range villain (Dedede), and a combination of both (Bowser). I replied that we also have close-range Wario and a combination for Wolf, and he replied that those two were only rivals, not villains. He kinda shut up about that point after I told him that Dedede was a rival/antihero, so we could still have a long range villain, or any villain, seeing that his arguement was invalid. He does bring up the whole, "Japan thinks there are three different K. Rools" arguement.


For Ridley, he had a string of loose arguements. He mentioned size, though he agreed he could be downsized and it wouldn't be a problem, but he thought Sakurai may find it problematic. I replied with, "They increased Olimar to about 75x his size for Brawl.

He then said that he never stays on the ground in games. I said, "One, he has legs proportional to his body, so he can stand, and two, there's proof of him standing IN AN SSE CUTSCENE."

Now he's saying that apparently Sakurai said in a Nintendo Power interview that the reason Ridley wasn't playable in Brawl was that he had problems making him playable. I was disbelieving, so I asked for a link to an official source verifying that.



Needless to say I think I won...:D
 

Johnknight1

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Well, you say Megaman would be boring in general, so only 3 or 4 weapons would be boring compared to 9. Plus, that random factor that those characters have make a fun surprise factor. Competitively you could keep that one weapon when you find it, unless there would be a forced change factor like PT (then its hackin time). If Peach's turnips and tennis racket weren't random she'd be a little overpowered in Brawl, and could take out Fox and Falco in Melee like nothing (dat Sorrow).
Albeit me saying that you could keep the one weapon, all the weapons should be practical. I dunno if there should be a tier list for his weapons, but if the OP ones could be a one time, or limited use.
Random wouldn't be that bad, I mean Olimar, D3 and G&W are high up on the tier list and Peach was b*tch in Melee (of course you won....b*tch)
Mega Man's weapon switch could allow you to switch weapons really fast. Maybe make the switch like a taunt button (replacing a taunt) and the actual attacking being a special attack button, or perhaps have it to where you quickly press it to switch and hold it to attack (or vice versa). Or even make it to where like, say Neutral B is to switch, and forward B is to attack or charge said attack.

Maybe he could absorb powers, keep them throughout the fight, and switch? Or maybe he could just have the Mega Buster and 3-9 moves from the first 3 Mega Man games (Elect Man, Guts Man, Ice Man, Metal Man, Snake Man, Fire Man, Aqua Man, etc). That would be totally awesome.

@ Opposum
Cool story bro.

Also, lol @ the Ridley being flight-based. What about Charizard? XD
 

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IF we know Japan thinks K Rool is 3 different people, they know the intention was for him to be 1 person.

That is, unless they just ignore us thinking their opinion is superior
 

Opossum

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I did actually bring up Charizard, Pit, and Metaknight, as he also said that because he could fly he'd have infinite recovery.xD
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I did actually bring up Charizard, Pit, and Metaknight, as he also said that because he could fly he'd have infinite recovery.xD
Kirby can fly infinitely in most of his games

Pit can fly infinitely when he gets the wing that let him fly
 

Opossum

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I think he's just against Ridley for some reason, so he gives BiaSed reasons.

Any input on it, Oasis_? You requested it.
 

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IF we know Japan thinks K Rool is 3 different people, they know the intention was for him to be 1 person.

That is, unless they just ignore us thinking their opinion is superior
It's really not that hard to just combine them into the "original" King K. Rool. I'm sure Sakurai at least knows it... or would know it upon doing his research... I hope. Seriously, imagine if we had 3 K. Rool character slots in Smash Bros. That would be terrible. :laugh:
 

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I did actually bring up Charizard, Pit, and Metaknight, as he also said that because he could fly he'd have infinite recovery.xD
A character with infinite flight ability would be nice, but very unfair!

When Charizard was confirmed and I thought it would happen, imagine a pokemon of 'type-fly' that does not fly right!? But what they did worked well ... or almost ... (charizard could give 5 jumps)

Good Evening
 

Oasis_S

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That's a weird one for K. Rool. So he's trying to say that we can only have so many villains? Doesn't matter how different they are? What a weirdo.

Sakurai did say in an interview something along the lines of (about Ridley being playable in Brawl) "I think that would have been pretty impossible [laughs]. Maybe if we tried our hardest we could have made him playable. He'd be a bit slow, wouldn't he?"

So he says it would have been impossible, but then says it wouldn't be if he tried harder. Ridley being the most deserving and one of the most demanded characters for Sm4sh would surely be incentive to try harder.

But it is kind of up to interpretation. I'm not going to say it's not a valid point against Ridley. There are just so many points FOR Ridley, that anything against him seems very trivial.
 

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I did actually bring up Charizard, Pit, and Metaknight, as he also said that because he could fly he'd have infinite recovery.xD
Woaw, what a fail. Kirby fly infinitely in several Kirby games, Meta Knight can fly infinitely in several Kirby games, heck, King Dedede and every dang Kirby character might be able to fly infinitely. :laugh:

If he doesn't like Ridley or K. Rool, that's all he really needs to say! :chuckle: However, just because you don't like someone, doesn't mean they won't make it. :cool: :009:

And all those flying characters in Brawl could basically fly camp forever. I don't really mind it as long as one of them aren't broken as heck. It's one thing if a tank like Bowser was broken. It was another thing entirely when the fastest moving character via Quick Attack Pikachu in Smash 64, and the character with arguably the best flight and running away abilities in Meta Knight in Brawl control the competitive meta-game. >.>
 

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@ Omega
Who can argue against Charizard being cool? Charizard is just made of pure awesome.

The Pokémon Trainer needs to be way better though, although current PT > any new PT ideas, because 1st gen > the rest.
 

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I'm just gonna throw this out there, but imagine the outrage of some people if Geno made it into the game as an AT? Oh, that'd be an uproar....
 

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@ Omega
Who can argue against Charizard being cool? Charizard is just made of pure awesome.

The Pokémon Trainer needs to be way better though, although current PT > any new PT ideas, because 1st gen > the rest.
All I want Sakurai to do is to remove the stamina feature that all the Pokemon have, it's annoying and just doesn't fit Smash IMO.

:phone:
 

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I never got the point of the Stamina system. It kinda ruins the character IMO. Or at least make it five minutes instead of two...
 

PsychoIncarnate

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I think he tried to make pokemon trainer like the games. Pokemon individually get knocked out fast but a team can survive for a while
 

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I never got the point of the Stamina system. It kinda ruins the character IMO. Or at least make it five minutes instead of two...
That is what I've been saying. Also, make the Pokémon Trainer switch out. It doesn't take 2 seconds. If he's a real pro Trainer like in the games, he can do it in under a second. Half a second is a long time anyways in a fighting game. Plus that could allow you to utilize all of them in a single stock to help defeat an enemy.

Ridley will make it in this game, that's for sure.:laugh:
SSE 2 does need bosses after all
Seriously. Bosses and trophies. He can be like 8 bosses in 8 different forms/looks-AS A PLAYABLE CHARACTER! :awesome:
 

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Mega Man's weapon switch could allow you to switch weapons really fast. Maybe make the switch like a taunt button (replacing a taunt) and the actual attacking being a special attack button, or perhaps have it to where you quickly press it to switch and hold it to attack (or vice versa). Or even make it to where like, say Neutral B is to switch, and forward B is to attack or charge said attack.

Maybe he could absorb powers, keep them throughout the fight, and switch? Or maybe he could just have the Mega Buster and 3-9 moves from the first 3 Mega Man games (Elect Man, Guts Man, Ice Man, Metal Man, Snake Man, Fire Man, Aqua Man, etc). That would be totally awesome.

@ Opposum
Cool story bro.

Also, lol @ the Ridley being flight-based. What about Charizard? XD
Oh I forgot about taunts, I was stuck on a Down B switch or a Tap Side B Hold kind of switch (might be a little complicated right?)
I always thought that a copy ability would take in the main elemental attribute of the character and he could then use his weapons for those bosses (Mario - Fire Man; Pika - Elect Man). If there was a possibility of both the weapon switch and the copy ability, it would be even more reliable on choosing the weapon (although I kind of like the idea of it being random). The copy ability would be pretty complicated compared to a simple random weapon switch. If both were in I wouldn't complain, I'd take the time to master it :D
 

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Oh I forgot about taunts, I was stuck on a Down B switch or a Tap Side B Hold kind of switch (might be a little complicated right?)
I always thought that a copy ability would take in the main elemental attribute of the character and he could then use his weapons for those bosses (Mario - Fire Man; Pika - Elect Man). If there was a possibility of both the weapon switch and the copy ability, it would be even more reliable on choosing the weapon (although I kind of like the idea of it being random). The copy ability would be pretty complicated compared to a simple random weapon switch. If both were in I wouldn't complain, I'd take the time to master it :D
Yeah the taunt could make it pretty useful and awesome. I don't think it would really work that well if it was random.

It can be like a list of moves that the experienced user could memorize. I have a feeling Sakurai would keep it simple, to have it switch between like the Mega Buster, Guts Man Gut Fist, Metal Man's Metal Blades, Elec Man Electric Blast, and maybe Zero's sword.
 

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He wanted a character that constantly switched battle styles. Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard aren't deserving to be long characters individually

Edit: To adapt to different circumstances in battle
 

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Both Tekken and Street fighter have at least 1 character that can change fighting stances to fight in a different unique way so the player can change up and react different to different situations.

Sakurai was trying to mimic that but did a BAD job at it

Edit: The live stream that stopped, but I still had opened must have been what was slowing my internet so much
 

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The forced switch upon KO should have been enough for the gimmick of having to switch Pokemon. It's not really a problem of BALANCE... so having the stamina there seems a bit much.
 

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Each of Mega Man's weapons could do different things. Each one you could press B to fire in quick short bursts, hold B to charge the each weapon (to charge for a super strong blast of each), or repeatedly press B to fire at a medium speed consistent rate, similar to the Mega Buster in the classic Mega Man games (but for each weapon).

Mega Man could also run, jump, and possibly use other attacks while firing and charging. Once you are done charging, you don't have to hold down the button.

The Mega Buster obviously would be his standard gun and would cover a very long range.

The Guts Fist would be a strong, short range attack that has either perhaps a lot of before or after attack lag with a lot of knock back and strong KO potential for a mid weight/mid-lightweight like Mega Man. It would do a fairly high amount of damage as well.

The Metal Blades could be strong blades that cover a fairly short range for a projectile attack and do quite a bit of damage and a bit of knock back.

The Elect Man Electric Wave could be a somewhat slow range attack that doesn't go far, but covers a lot of area, does little damage, and stuns the enemy to set up further attacks.

Zero's Sword could be a moderately long sword that does quite a bit of damage, comes out quick but has a bit of after lag, and does considerable damage.

As previously mentioned, all could be charged with B for a more powerful attack, simply pressing B would fire the move in a quick burst that has a bit of after lag, and pressing B repeatedly would fire each attack at a consistent speed.
 

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Both Tekken and Street fighter have at least 1 character that can change fighting stances to fight in a different unique way so the player can change up and react different to different situations.

Sakurai was trying to mimic that but did a BAD job at it
Yeah, if he gives the Pokemon stamina, he might as well give Ryu a health bar and Mario should die with one bit after losing his ability to grow, yea that would be pretty clever of him. :awesome:

:phone:
 
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By Starphoenix! May you suceed at college. ;)

If Mega Man gets to copy moves, it should be after he KOs an opponent and it should be changed by using a taunt button so it would give Mega Man four special moves. They should be mapped per character's ability. Personally, I would prefer if they just integrated the moves into him to differentiate him from Kirby.

Let me offer to tear apart TNintendominate's roster.[COLLAPSE="Horribly unrealistic roster"]Since GameFAQs is full of incompetent trolls, I decided to share my SSB4 roster here. I know, there are 64 characters, eight being third-party, but please give an honest opinion and help me out, unlike those trolls on GameFAQs. I'm new here, please excuse any fudge-ups or idiocy in randomly posting here. You got "trolled" for a good reason. It sucked and its highly unrealistic. This roster isn't much better.

Super Mario Bros.
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Rosalina Rosalina is a terrible choice for a newcomer and especially for a Mario rep. If we are going to get a sixth Mario rep, it will almost certainly go to either Toad, Paper Mario, or Waluigi.
Bowser
Bowser Jr./ Shadow Mario (switch with Bv)

Donkey Kong- If you're going to have a 64+ plus, there's no reason not to add King K. Rool to the list. He has a strong chance of getting in as a playable character.
DK
Diddy Kong

Yoshi's Island-
Yoshi
Kamek Yoshi probably is not getting a rep. If a Mario sub-series get a rep and only two of them got it, Donkey Kong and Wario would likely receive priority.

Mario RPGs- This is just absolutely terrible. The only character here with a realistic shot is Paper Mario.
Paper Mario
Paper Luigi No, just no. We are not starving for new reps.
Koops (I know, one-shot character, but he's better than Toad or Waluigi) Say what you want, Paper Mario is not getting two or three characters. Heck, Paper Mario may not even be playable, as much as I want him. Also, Toad and Waluigi are far more likely then any of the choices listed on the Mario RPGs section aside from PM.
Fawful Support has pretty much died down for Fawful. Relevancy is the only reason why he may get in and when you have just that, that doesn't really help you out much.
Baby Bros. No Baby Bros. in Smash. This suggestion is just awful on all levels.

WarioWare/Land-
Wario

The Legend of Zelda- This is also really bad. Also, where a Young/Toon Link variation?
Link
Zelda/Shiek
Tingle Kind of questionable, but okay.
Tetra/ Toon Zelda (switch with Bv) Gets barely any support for a playable character, so I find them as unlikely.)
Midna (one-shot, but still very popular) Missed her chance back in Brawl and probably won't be getting in.
Byrne (one-shot, but here until I find a better one) Almost certainly isn't happening
Vaati Refer to my Midna response.
Ganondorf

Metroid-
Samus/ Zero Suit Samus
Rundas The second rep will probably be Ridley. Drop him.

Retro- What happened to R.O.B.? He's almost guarantee to return.
Pit Pit isn't retro.
Wart (yes, from SMB2/ Doki Doki Panic) Probably is not going to happening. Drop him.
Little Mac Not retro.
Takamaru
Shantae Is third-party and an incredibly unlikely one at it.
Mr. Game&Watch

Kirby's Dream Land-
Kirby
Meta-Knight
King Dedede
Prince Fluff Kirby does not need four reps. Drop him, the three we have are good enough.

Pikmin- Olimar is probably going to be by himself. Louie and The President are highly unlikely.
Olimar
Louie
The President (literally just filler until I think of another {non-Pikmin} rep <_>)

Cave Story- Would be neat, but probably isn't happening.
Quote

Star Fox-
Fox
Falco
Krystal (I am NOT a furry, Krystal simply has far more fans, much better moveset potential, and we won't have THREE Landmasters any more >_>) The choice by itself is okay if chances are questionable. Its when you make Krystal a replacement of Wolf that cause problem. If Krystal gets in, it will be for a fourth slot.

F-Zero
Captain Falcon

Professor Layton Series-
Hershel Layton

No More Heroes Series- I highly doubt Travis Touchdown is getting in. Support for him has all but died down in the last month and I have seen little requests for his inclusion.
Travis Touchdown

Rareware (yes, I know they work for Microsoft now, but there's the MINUTE possibility...) Correct, they have a very slim chance of getting in. With that said, drop Banjo-Kazooie.
Banjo-Kazooie

SSB- Smash is probably not going to get a rep. Just saying.
Primid (in all honesty, I think Primid could have some promise as a playable character. I have a moveset if you want to see)

Pokemon- Pokemon should not be relegated to four slots. Add a fifth slot and one of Mewtwo/Meowth/Lucario.
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer- with Cyndaquil, Croconaw, and Meganium Many fans dislike the idea of Pokemon Trainer changing generations. I don't think Red is going away.
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Champion- with Victini, Zoroark, and Genesect Would be sweet, but I heavily doubt this will happen. The one (or in the slight chance, two) of the 5th gen Pokemons who gets in will have their own slot

Fire Emblem-
Marth
Ike

Earthbound/Mother-
Ness
Lucas

3RD PARTY BEYOND HERE! :O Only Sonic is likely. Drop NiGHTS.
SEGA-
Sonic
NiGHTS

Konami-No to Kai. Only Snake has a good chance of being playable again.
Snake
Kai (y'know, from Elebits)

Capcom- Amaterasu probably isn't getting in, as cool as he would be. Drop him.
Mega Man
Amaterasu

Square Enix- If Square Enix gets a rep, it will likely go to Slime. Black Mage and Geno are certainly possible, but both are very unlikely to show up.
Black Mage (or another suitable FF rep)
Geno

So, what do you think? THoughts/comments/help?

Lets see, you're missing Ridley and King K. Rool, who are far more likely to show up then most of the newcomers you listed, too many third-party characters, an excess of Mario reps (including Mario RPGs rep), and too much Zelda reps.

This is why your roster was viewed in a negative viewpoint with your 72 character roster and quite honestly, your 64 character roster is not that much better.

1/10.
[/COLLAPSE]
Ninka_kiwi said:
Can we assume there will be around 50 characters this time around?
It's possible that it'll be around 50 characters this time around. 45-50 is a plausible range if you ask me. However, I think 43-47 characters is the most likely range to occur. 50 and up is not likely.
Ninja_kiwi said:
Ashely (New) Trace memory
Chibi Robo (New)
Roy (Fire emblem)
Saki (New) (Sin a punishment)
Mewtwo
Don't give up hope for Roy, Saki, or Mewtwo yet. If Roy gets his rumored FE6 remake, his chances goes up a lot and would have a somewhat decent shot of returning. Saki has a high chance of getting in due to his Assist Trophy status, how it shows off his move set potentials, and the polish it was given. He also have lots of requests behind him, which helps him out a lot as well. Mewtwo has a 50/50 chance of returning, thanks to being very highly requested to return worldwide, being part of the Forbidden Seven, is one of the most popular Pokemons today (only beaten out by Charizard), and the only 1st gen Pokemon to have learned a new move. So they have a shot of being playable in SSB4.

Chibi-Robo would be awesome for SSB4, but unfortunately, he is probably never getting in.
Opposum said:
So, I'm debating on Bulbagarden and someone is actually against K. Rool and Ridley.0_0

I'm trying to have them see the light...
Ironically enough, they are some of the most likely potential newcomers we have and would be almost a shoe-in if Ridley was popular in Japan and King K. Rool was 100% relevant.
Opossum said:
I'm just gonna throw this out there, but imagine the outrage of some people if Geno made it into the game as an AT? Oh, that'd be an uproar....
Well, at least it opens the doors for him to be playable in SSB5 and gives him a much better shot of being playable. I can live without him for now.
 

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Yeah, if he gives the Pokemon stamina, he might as well give Ryu a health bar and Mario should die with one bit after losing his ability to grow, yea that would be pretty clever of him. :awesome:

:phone:
Actually, with my arguement stamina doesn't make much sense either because it's suppose to be the player that decides when to switch to another stance, not be forces into one.

If the pkmn trainer didn't have stamina the player would likely be more willing to switch to adapt

Edit: Text is turning into a rainbow up in here
 

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The forced switch upon KO should have been enough for the gimmick of having to switch Pokemon. It's not really a problem of BALANCE... so having the stamina there seems a bit much.
Honestly, you should be able to change quicker. If that happened, it would be a lot easier to play with each.

Sakurai probably meant Ivysaur to be able to rack up a lot of damage off of combos but have awful recovery (one of the worst in the game!), Squirtle to be able to also rack up damage and maneuver quite a bit but gets KO'd at low damage, and Charizard can do a lot of damage, survive a while, and fly, but is a huge and fairly slow target that has a lot of after-move lag.

That would work if each one didn't get tired after 2 minutes, you could actually switch between them in game without getting Falcon Punched easily, or if they all weren't low tier characters individually that don't add up together.
 

OmegaXXII

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Actually, with my arguement stamina doesn't make much sense either because it's suppose to be the player that decides when to switch to another stance, not be forces into one.

If the pkmn trainer didn't have stamina the player would likely be more willing to switch to adapt

Edit: Text is turning into a rainbow up in here
That's what I'm saying, you should be able to choose and control which Pokemon you have on field, I'm actually good with Squirtle, but the stupid stamina always forces me to play with Charizard or Ivysaur at bad timing. <_<

:phone:
 

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I'm pretty sure the stamina was added to make sure that each Pokemon get a chance, probably because Sheik was always chosen over Zelda (but that's what happens when Zelda is so weak). But it was kinda unnecessary to add stamina since you didn't have to force change with Sheik or Samus.
But as JohnKnight said, each of them have their pros and cons so they would be more likely to change anyway, esp since they're pretty well balanced. The switch could've been faster, though and (probably not) but instead of the switch being a weakness they could have invincibility for maybe half a second to give them a better chance.
 

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Johnknight1
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3540-0575-1486
By Starphoenix! May you suceed at college. ;)
Wait... ya'll haven't started school yet? Dang, I've been at it for two dang weeks, and already wrote 2 essays and had a test. Fortunately half of my classes are breezers and the other classes don't seem too bad... so far. :cool:

Most my friends in Universities started like 2 weeks before me. Dang college schedules are whack... :laugh:

If Mega Man gets to copy moves, it should be after he KOs an opponent and it should be changed by using a taunt button so it would give Mega Man four special moves. They should be mapped per character's ability. Personally, I would prefer if they just integrated the moves into him to differentiate him from Kirby.
Yeah I agree that he should get some of his awesome retro moves. I think the system I spelled out where he had it in advance would be cool. Although, seeing Mega Man in everyone's different colors would be pretty sweet. Mega Man in Snake's camouflage outfit color=awesome (hopefully with a headband on his helmet). :laugh:

It's possible that it'll be around 50 characters this time around. 45-50 is a plausible range if you ask me. However, I think 43-47 characters is the most likely range to occur. 50 and up is not likely.Don't give up hope for Roy, Saki, or Mewtwo yet. If Roy gets his rumored FE6 remake, his chances goes up a lot and would have a somewhat decent shot of returning. Saki has a high chance of getting in due to his Assist Trophy status, how it shows off his move set potentials, and the polish it was given. He also have lots of requests behind him, which helps him out a lot as well. Mewtwo has a 50/50 chance of returning, thanks to being very highly requested to return worldwide, being part of the Forbidden Seven, is one of the most popular Pokemons today (only beaten out by Charizard), and the only 1st gen Pokemon to have learned a new move. So they have a shot of being playable in SSB4.
SSB64 had 12. Melee had 26 (plus 14). Brawl had 39 (plus 13). So if we get plus 12, that's 52. Mid 50 and lower characters isn't that crazy. We can all pretty much agree, though anything less than 45 would be a disappointment, and anything over 55 would be crazy to guess, although if it was balanced, it would be as awesome as getting an A in class you dropped (like I did in high school for my 3rd term of Spanish). :cool: :laugh: :grin:0

Also, FE6 remake rumors? Do any of you guys have a link? I loved Sword of the Seals; I've only played 3, 6, and 7, and it was probably my favorite of the three, maybe a nudge over 7.

And I'm not so sure about handing out Mewtwo or cut Melee characters chances. It all depends on how his popularity goes worldwide, and he would have to be considered a newcomer like all cut Melee characters in Sakurai's eyes, and compete with them to see "who would be best?"

Chibi-Robo would be awesome for SSB4, but unfortunately, he is probably never getting in.
Agreed. He'd at least make a great Assist Trophy or Boss.

Also, if Geno was an AT I would be happy. Not because he's an AT, but because then it raises hype for him in the next smash bros... 8,000 years later!!! (or so it would seem!)
 
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