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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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Big-Cat

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Do you at least see what I was trying to get at though? I was trying to go for a mix up attack, but it's not easy when Smash is beyond simple.
Smash has its good share of depth, but it does need to be expanded in some areas more than others, namely defense. Here's another solution that provides Jill with more options on the grenades. Remember how you said that the ambiguity lies in her pulling something out. Well, make the startup her pulling it out, but in the mean time, hold either forward, down, or neutral, for incendiary, flash, or explosive grenades.


I'm 100% sure there is, but I'm a complete n00b to the Resident Evil series.
I just remembered something from MvC3. Her machine gun spray would be a really good one.

I think it would work as a sort of "Mame and jump" type of playstyle. Her weapons tend to do things like stun her enemies, so she would work the concept of stun, and then go in for the kill. She could keep opponents at bay by using her projectiles. If she was able to somehow quickly go from holding her gun, to switching to Knife, or grenades I feel she would fair better. The opponents would have a harder time readin what she's going to do next. Also, all her B moves could look similar to confuse your opponents. All her B moves could look like her reaching off to the side to grab for something, and you just wouldn't know what she was about to do. Overall I agree with all of your comments.
I like the idea of her startup being the ambiguity. Sonic works like this, but Jill could have a lot more options available to her while keeping her mixups. Sounds like Jill is a bit of zoning, footsies, and mixups, but light on damage (her mixups would be too good then).
 

Shorts

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@Star You don't have to bother replying to my last reply. It's clear what we just have extremely different ideas of what is an important role for a character. It's not that I don't understand your view, I do I just don't agree with it. So yeah. Meep :3
 

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鉄腕
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Err... that's not true at all. I've been on Serenes Forest, and consensus is Roy isn't ANYTHING special. He only has recognition because of his Melee appearance. Marth, Ike are the biggest, but Sigurd and Leaf are pretty well liked to. I've seen more Hector support than the others from FE7 as well.
@Star

Thats where I got my idea of how Roy stands for my little rant a few pages ago. lol
 

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Ah, sorry, again, FF IV Omega.

Believe it or not, i haven't played much of 7, 8 and 9, however my brother has played it, and i've seen the movie(although i know movies are generally different to games).

I found one of my all time favourite tunes from FF IV!

Clash on the bridge-Battle with Gilgamesh

You have to go the entire bridge which is really long to get to the other side really quickly(there's even a time limit), while versing these enemies that are really crazy first try. You finally get to the end of the bridge, when suddenly, gilgamesh ambushes you! Bet you never saw that coming! So now, with the time limit, you're versing this insane boss warrior who's really improved from the last time he versed you, and boy is that battle hard! Hoo hah!
 

Scar86

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Smash has its good share of depth, but it does need to be expanded in some areas more than others, namely defense. Here's another solution that provides Jill with more options on the grenades. Remember how you said that the ambiguity lies in her pulling something out. Well, make the startup her pulling it out, but in the mean time, hold either forward, down, or neutral, for incendiary, flash, or explosive grenades.



I just remembered something from MvC3. Her machine gun spray would be a really good one.


I like the idea of her startup being the ambiguity. Sonic works like this, but Jill could have a lot more options available to her while keeping her mixups. Sounds like Jill is a bit of zoning, footsies, and mixups, but light on damage (her mixups would be too good then).


I Agree with everything except the concept of holding down fwd or right for different grenades. This would nullify use of the C-Stick for newcomers. Unless holding the c stick in one direction has her throw the desired grenade
 

OmegaXXII

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Source please, I'd like to see that.

But if that IS true, that doesn't neccesarily benefit Roy... that would mean all the characters are getting more attention. If they're doing something like Dissidia, then attention would be given to all sorts of characters. Roy would just be one of them.

It COULD also be a crossover, as hinted by the ending of FE10, Radiant Dawn where Ike left Tellius to explore other Lands... Akaneia, etc. perhaps.



Err... that's not true at all. I've been on Serenes Forest, and consensus is Roy isn't ANYTHING special. He only has recognition because of his Melee appearance. Marth, Ike are the biggest, but Sigurd and Leaf are pretty well liked to. I've seen more Hector support than the others from FE7 as well.




That's making some strong assumptions, as of SSB64, for example the only Mario characters were plumbers, and as of Melee, the only Star Fox characters were members of Star Fox.

Only Caeda stands as the most viable option? Based on what? She isn't a Lord, so why is she chosen out from other characters? BTW, Micaiah is generally considered a Lord, even though her class is different. Ike only briefly held the Lord class.
Meh..Star is just a big Roy fanboy is all, he probably got it from Chrono, I don't take him to seriously, nobody for that matter, Sakurai will do what's best for the series, and by thT I mean The Black Knight will get in, doesn't give Caeda any higher chances if you ask me, she isn't even a lord to begin with.

:phone:
 

Big-Cat

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I Agree with everything except the concept of holding down fwd or right for different grenades. This would nullify use of the C-Stick for newcomers. Unless holding the c stick in one direction has her throw the desired grenade
With the 3DS version of SSB4 coming along, I honestly think the C-Stick will be removed in the next game.

And how would it nullify the use of the C-Stick for newcomers?
 

Chris the Ripper

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Meh..Star is just a big Roy fanboy is all, he probably got it from Chrono, I don't take him to seriously, nobody for that matter, Sakurai will do what's best for the series, and by thT I mean The Black Knight will get in, doesn't give Caeda any higher chances if you ask me, she isn't even a lord to begin with.

:phone:
TS;DR :troll:
 

Shorts

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I like the idea of her startup being the ambiguity. Sonic works like this, but Jill could have a lot more options available to her while keeping her mixups. Sounds like Jill is a bit of zoning, footsies, and mixups, but light on damage (her mixups would be too good then).
Can you define a Zoning character, what footsies is, and is there any other character types?

Smash has its good share of depth, but it does need to be expanded in some areas more than others, namely defense. Here's another solution that provides Jill with more options on the grenades. Remember how you said that the ambiguity lies in her pulling something out. Well, make the startup her pulling it out, but in the mean time, hold either forward, down, or neutral, for incendiary, flash, or explosive grenades.
I know it has depth, I was more so talking about how it isn't easy to come up with button/tilt ideas for moves when there is only a single special button.
 

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鉄腕
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Meh..Star is just a big Roy fanboy is all, he probably got it from Chrono, I don't take him to seriously, nobody for that matter, Sakurai will do what's best for the series, and by thT I mean The Black Knight will get in, doesn't give Caeda any higher chances if you ask me, she isn't even a lord to begin with.

:phone:
Technically, BK also isn't a lord at all. As for Caeda she is more of a secondary lord, very important to the story and is almost required for beating the game, but she can die without a gameover unlike Marth.

Also does it really matter who and who isn't a lord? As it stands both BK and Caeda aren't lords but does that hurt their chances?
 

OmegaXXII

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Ah, sorry, again, FF IV Omega.

Believe it or not, i haven't played much of 7, 8 and 9, however my brother has played it, and i've seen the movie(although i know movies are generally different to games).

I found one of my all time favourite tunes from FF IV!

Clash on the bridge-Battle with Gilgamesh

You have to go the entire bridge which is really long to get to the other side really quickly(there's even a time limit), while versing these enemies that are really crazy first try. You finally get to the end of the bridge, when suddenly, gilgamesh ambushes you! Bet you never saw that coming! So now, with the time limit, you're versing this insane boss warrior who's really improved from the last time he versed you, and boy is that battle hard! Hoo hah!
Man, I really need to play this game sometime.

I mostly just played a bunch of the newer obe's with FFXIII-2 coming up, I have alot of catching up to do before it comes out, otherwise I might not have time to play them due to solely playing the new FF game.

Good song though, reminded of Zelda a bit.

:phone:
 

Barbasol

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Meh..Star is just a big Roy fanboy is all, he probably got it from Chrono, I don't take him to seriously, nobody for that matter, Sakurai will do what's best for the series, and by thT I mean The Black Knight will get in, doesn't give Caeda any higher chances if you ask me, she isn't even a lord to begin with.

:phone:
I'm not actually too sure we'll get a third Fire Emblem rep. It's not really a AAA franchise unfortunately. But, it has tons of fighter potential, so who knows.

Hector, Black Knight, Caeda, Lyn, Micaiah, Roy, Leaf, Sigurd, Soren, Eliwood. I'm not holding my breath, there's so many different requests. And no clear favorite. If we do get a new rep, I just hope they bring something new, so I'm not keen on Eliwood, Sigurd, Leaf, or Roy. They COULD be unique definitely, but I'd rather see something a bit different.
 

Shorts

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[COLLAPSE="Suicune moveset, for Omega"]


Suicune is one of the most iconic legendary Pokemon. It has spurred a movie, and even it’s own spot as #1 legendary in Pokemon Crystal. She is one of the handful of Pokemon in HG/SS who has their own storyline and plot that at it’s climax leads you into a dramatic battle. For the reasons above, I see Suicune as a forerunner of the Second Generation.

Speed: Close to the speed of Peach

Strength: Weaker than average.

Jump: Similar to Ganon’s in Melee

Type of Attacks: Her moves have are made up of half closer range, while other half have varying lengths (About as long as Mewtwo’s tail bair)

Her Moveset:
Suicune’s moveset will really focus on utilizing Raindance’s special effects, and ledge guarding. I was planning on going all out, but I think you get an Idea of how her moves will work themselves into a playstyle.

USmash – Tailwind sends a gust of wind that lift’s Suicune into the air. She can be lifted straight up, slightly to the left, or the right. When this move is used and an enemy is near they will be pushed back by the uplifting wind.

Smash – Mist can be used up in three different spots on the field. Each spot is about the size of one and a half Bowsers. Mist’s effect will make those spots slippery to opponents, as well as strengthen any sort of Water/Ice type moves. If the opponent is hit with Hydro pump, or by the gust coming from tailwind, the “Iced ground will send the opponent sliding backwards. Blizzard will have a freezing effect that last’s longer.

Mist’s goal: With Blizzard, the longer your opponent is frozen, the more time you have to rack up his %. With Hydro pump your opponent will slide (possibly off the ledge) where you can use Dsmash or tailwind to keep them from recovering.

FSmash - Hydro Pump is a simple power move. Suicune lacks strength behind her attacks, so this move is her saving grace. A forward blast of water hits your opponent, pretty simple. The move has decent knockback.

DSmash – Blizzard another simple move, your opponent becomes frozen. It works in air as well as on ground.

Other significant moves:
Fair: Suicune swipes her paw, with water surrounding it. After using this, the left over water drops, acting as either a weak attack for opponents on the ground., or a “mini footstool” for aerial opponents that pushes them slightly lower. If the opponent is low enough, they could miss their chance to recover.
[/COLLAPSE]
 

Starphoenix

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@Star

Thats where I got my idea of how Roy stands for my little rant a few pages ago. lol
Yeah well most of my information has come from Chronobound.

Source please, I'd like to see that.

But if that IS true, that doesn't neccesarily benefit Roy... that would mean all the characters are getting more attention. If they're doing something like Dissidia, then attention would be given to all sorts of characters. Roy would just be one of them.

It COULD also be a crossover, as hinted by the ending of FE10, Radiant Dawn where Ike left Tellius to explore other Lands... Akaneia, etc. perhaps.
Here.

The discussion then turned to the group's dreams for a new Fire Emblem: would they want to remake another old game next, make a new one, or make something else? Tawara said he would prefer to make a new Fire Emblem, adding something like Brain Age elements (but not Brain Age elements) to make the game even more accessible and more likely to draw in the Brain Age-only DS owners. If he were to remake a game, he would choose Seisen no Keifu, which feature a relationship system and the ability to pass stats and abilities to future generations. He'd be "very interested in seeing how I could update it for the DS".

Horikawa also expressed a preference in making a new FE, because there would be "more room for innovation". Were he to remake one, it would be Fuuin no Tsurugi, which starred Roy, who went on to Super Smash Bros. Melee fame. Narihiro said that he wanted to take Fire Emblem "all-stars" and pull them together into a new title.
Err... that's not true at all. I've been on Serenes Forest, and consensus is Roy isn't ANYTHING special. He only has recognition because of his Melee appearance. Marth, Ike are the biggest, but Sigurd and Leaf are pretty well liked to. I've seen more Hector support than the others from FE7 as well.
Well I'll concede that perhaps that factoid is not true.

That's making some strong assumptions, as of SSB64, for example the only Mario characters were plumbers, and as of Melee, the only Star Fox characters were members of Star Fox.
Given that most non-lords are expendable characters I don't see that as helping their cause.

Only Caeda stands as the most viable option? Based on what? She isn't a Lord, so why is she chosen out from other characters? BTW, Micaiah is generally considered a Lord, even though her class is different. Ike only briefly held the Lord class.
Because she is a popular character and is currently relevant with the Marth saga being redone for the DS. Since Sakurai will probably select his roster between now and this time next year, I'd say that is in her favor if anyone apart from Roy.

Meh..Star is just a big Roy fanboy is all, he probably got it from Chrono, I don't take him to seriously, nobody for that matter, Sakurai will do what's best for the series, and by thT I mean The Black Knight will get in, doesn't give Caeda any higher chances if you ask me, she isn't even a lord to begin with.

:phone:
Please, fanboy? You know a person can debate a character without really caring for them right? I don't really care about the Fire Emblem series, I enjoy the games, but character wise it doesn't really matter to me. The only character I want is Marth, since he isn't going anywhere I'm set.
 

Big-Cat

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Can you define a Zoning character, what footsies is, and is there any other character types?
“Footsies” is oldschool slang for the mid-range ground-based aspect of fighting game strategy. The ultimate goal is to control the flow of the match, bait the opponent into committing errors, and punish everything. - Definition from Sonic Hurricane.

Zoning is made up of two sub-categories, spacing and keep-away. Overall, it involves keep your opponent's mobility options. For example with the incendiary grenade, you keep a carpet of fire on the ground. If you make your opponent approach you, he's forced to approach you from the air and you can prepare yourself for that. Alternatively, you can use it to get in when he's cornered.

There's different kinds of character archetypes, but each character tends to have a little bit of these categories in them, some more than others: Close-Range (Cammy), Mid-Range (Chun-Li), Projectiles/Long-Range (Dhalsim), and Mixups. It's rather hard to say how much each character has in each category, but the above examples are almost like text-book examples.

I know it has depth, I was more so talking about how it isn't easy to come up with button/tilt ideas for moves when there is only a single special button.
I know. Part of the reason why I want to see B+A, B+X, and B+Y inputs for light, medium, and heavy inputs.
 

OmegaXXII

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Technically, BK also isn't a lord at all. As for Caeda she is more of a secondary lord, very important to the story and is almost required for beating the game, but she can die without a gameover unlike Marth.

Also does it really matter who and who isn't a lord? As it stands both BK and Caeda aren't lords but does that hurt their chances?
Lol..I am pretty aware that he isn't a lord where Ike comes from, I was just stating that if Caeda has a good chance than so does the Black Knight.

I brought up the lord discussion concerning Star since he mentioned "lords" had a better overall chance than any lesser FE characters which I know for a fact isn't entirely true, any given FE charCfer that is relevant and popular could surely be in Smash, Roy really isn't popular by the whole FE community, it's most popularity comes from Melee fanboys.

:phone:
 

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鉄腕
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I'm not actually too sure we'll get a third Fire Emblem rep. It's not really a AAA franchise unfortunately. But, it has tons of fighter potential, so who knows.

Hector, Black Knight, Caeda, Lyn, Micaiah, Roy, Leaf, Sigurd, Soren, Eliwood. I'm not holding my breath, there's so many different requests. And no clear favorite. If we do get a new rep, I just hope they bring something new, so I'm not keen on Eliwood, Sigurd, Leaf, or Roy. They COULD be unique definitely, but I'd rather see something a bit different.
That's why I'm for anyone we can get.

Although it should be said that technically, it was a AAA franchise before other 90's Nintendo series and Metroid really began gaining new entries for their franchises causing Nintendo to focus their attention somewhere else.

By the end of the 90's, FE had just as many games in the series as Zelda, was one of the top sellers in Japan and had lots of media from a cartoon, TCG, mangas/novels and artbooks.

This is why I really think FE is going to at least gain another slot, it's a very important franchise in Nintendo's history, and unlike some other series (cough..SF...cough) is really deserving of some more reps.
 

Starphoenix

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@Omega:

This isn't in reference to Roy, but just any character. Popularity is popularity, it doesn't matter where it comes from.
 

Shorts

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Shortie, I suggest reading this when you have time.
http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702
I favorited it. I'll read it later tonight when the thread gets stupid/slow. Smash has so much potential to become an even more amazing fighter than it already is, I just wish Nintendo would take a bit more risks when it comes to accesability. Do you think the lack of options for specials affects the tier list? I mean, if characters only have four specials, and combos don't happen, if the character has hard to implement/just not that great of specials, aren't they just going to fall on the tier list?
 

Scar86

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With the 3DS version of SSB4 coming along, I honestly think the C-Stick will be removed in the next game.

And how would it nullify the use of the C-Stick for newcomers?
actually yeah they will most likley remove it for the 3ds version, meep.
 

Big-Cat

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It'll likely be gone period as I doubt Sakurai wants any glaring differences in the two versions, gameplay wise.
 

Luco

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Well i support Chocobo (and slime, but i'm using chocobo as an example) even though he's a lesser FF character. He just seems right.

But i didn't come to get involved in this argument, i came to post some kick- something music:

[COLLAPSE="Spoiler"]Zeromus- The final Battle

The 16 bit era really outdid themselves with this one. The boss is epic:

The background is epic(also in the pic, and the music is epic. Oh, and what makes this even better is his ultimate attack move- Big Bang. Suddenly, the clouds move backwards, lightning streaks the sky, the screen flashes, it's INSANE!!!!!!![/COLLAPSE]
 

Starphoenix

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Well i support Chocobo (and slime, but i'm using chocobo as an example) even though he's a lesser FF character. He just seems right.

But i didn't come to get involved in this argument, i came to post some kick- something music:

Zeromus- The final Battle

The 16 bit era really outdid themselves with this one. The boss is epic:

The background is epic(also in the pic, and the music is epic. Oh, and what makes this even better is his ultimate attack move- Big Bang. Suddenly, the clouds move backwards, lightning streaks the sky, the screen flashes, it's INSANE!!!!!!!
Why did you just spoil this game for me! I have been playing through it this whole time thinking I was going to fight Golbez. :'(

All of this debating has me playing this in my head.

http://youtu.be/WIbAh6uwrBc?t=1m35s
 

Starphoenix

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I did!? Oh noez! Well at least you don't know WHY you fight zeromus instead of golbez star, thats the real shocker.
No, that I do not know. I was shocked that that stupid punk Kain betrayed me twice. I mean really, it was bad enough you did it to me once. But TWICE?!
 

Luco

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Haha, so he's kidnapped Rosa now, hasn't he, and you're going to have to go through the tower of Babel to get her? Yeah the tower of babel is actually pretty hard.
 

Starphoenix

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Haha, so he's kidnapped Rosa now, hasn't he, and you're going to have to go through the tower of Babel to get her? Yeah the tower of babel is actually pretty hard.
Actually I just landed on the moon. That is about it. Too scared to go exploring around just yet. Want to level up a bit. Afraid those space protoplasm things are going to slaughter my team.
 

OmegaXXII

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[COLLAPSE="Suicune moveset, for Omega"]


Suicune is one of the most iconic legendary Pokemon. It has spurred a movie, and even it’s own spot as #1 legendary in Pokemon Crystal. She is one of the handful of Pokemon in HG/SS who has their own storyline and plot that at it’s climax leads you into a dramatic battle. For the reasons above, I see Suicune as a forerunner of the Second Generation.

Speed: Close to the speed of Peach

Strength: Weaker than average.

Jump: Similar to Ganon’s in Melee

Type of Attacks: Her moves have are made up of half closer range, while other half have varying lengths (About as long as Mewtwo’s tail bair)

Her Moveset:
Suicune’s moveset will really focus on utilizing Raindance’s special effects, and ledge guarding. I was planning on going all out, but I think you get an Idea of how her moves will work themselves into a playstyle.

USmash – Tailwind sends a gust of wind that lift’s Suicune into the air. She can be lifted straight up, slightly to the left, or the right. When this move is used and an enemy is near they will be pushed back by the uplifting wind.

Smash – Mist can be used up in three different spots on the field. Each spot is about the size of one and a half Bowsers. Mist’s effect will make those spots slippery to opponents, as well as strengthen any sort of Water/Ice type moves. If the opponent is hit with Hydro pump, or by the gust coming from tailwind, the “Iced ground will send the opponent sliding backwards. Blizzard will have a freezing effect that last’s longer.

Mist’s goal: With Blizzard, the longer your opponent is frozen, the more time you have to rack up his %. With Hydro pump your opponent will slide (possibly off the ledge) where you can use Dsmash or tailwind to keep them from recovering.

FSmash - Hydro Pump is a simple power move. Suicune lacks strength behind her attacks, so this move is her saving grace. A forward blast of water hits your opponent, pretty simple. The move has decent knockback.

DSmash – Blizzard another simple move, your opponent becomes frozen. It works in air as well as on ground.

Other significant moves:
Fair: Suicune swipes her paw, with water surrounding it. After using this, the left over water drops, acting as either a weak attack for opponents on the ground., or a “mini footstool” for aerial opponents that pushes them slightly lower. If the opponent is low enough, they could miss their chance to recover.
[/COLLAPSE]
Nice Suicune moveset, I believe she'll definetly be a fast character but heavy considering how big she is.

I liked the moves such as Blizzard and such, her Final Smash was good and all but Hydro Pump is something I'd expect from Blastoise rather than Suicune, personally I would have gone with Whirlwind or maybe Blizzard since she is closer to ice characteristics for that matter.

Also have you checked out The Tin Tower stage concept Star created? It's right next to the Burnex Tower too, a perfect stage for Suicune.

:phone:
 
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