New Smash Bros for WiiU

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Should I even post my new concept, or is it going to get buried in this arguing?

Maybe ya better wait. It's gonna wear off soon, IMO... at least after few pages.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Nah, not yet, things seem to heated up with this nonsense about P.Mario being a clone.

 

[Oasis_S]

I don't think Master Rapier said Paper Mario would be a clone to begin with silly goose.

His second point was the only real one, and I agree with it.

 

[MechaWave]

His second point was the only real one, and I agree with it.

Well that reason is invalid in my eyes. Sure Mario could have had those moves but he doesn't. And he's been in 3 Smash games with almost every move being the same and I doubt he would change his moveset.

Obviously having 2 characters being the same doesn't matter to Sakurai. He's had Young Link and Toon Link who are way more obvious clones but with different attributes to their moves.

 

[Oasis_S]

Like I said, the movesets I've seen tend to focus on him using his hammer as his main method of attack. It's uninteresting and it's already been done. He doesn't do a whole lot that Mario doesn't already do. If you were to make a moveset where he only does things a sheet of paper could do, then that'd be something, but I can't really think of much that's actually interesting. Sure it'd be flashy, and that's fine too, but I'd prefer something more unique.

 

[Starphoenix]

Like I said, the movesets I've seen tend to focus on him using his hammer as his main method of attack. It's uninteresting and not original. He doesn't do a whole lot that Mario doesn't already do. If you were to make a moveset where he only does things a sheet of paper could do, then that'd be something, but I can't really think of much that's actually interesting. Sure it'd be flashy, and that's fine too, but I'd prefer something more unique.

Because a sword is so much better...

 

[OmegaXXII]

Movesets will be different regardless if he is the same character or not.

/papermario discussion

 

[CalvinWars]

But at the same time Oasis, that would alienate him from his games. While it definatelywould be unique, it wouldn't be the Paper Mario from his games. Do you know what I mean?

 

[OmegaXXII]

A sword? P.Mario? Who are you referring to ★?

 

[Starphoenix]

A sword? P.Mario? Who are you referring to ★?

He stated that using a hammer is unoriginal and uninteresting. So I commented.

 

[MechaWave]

Well then there can be a Epic Yarn Kirby. Paper Mario is not designed to be such a character. You could say the same thing about other characters but it just won't happen.

 

[Oasis_S]

Because a sword is so much better...

What are you trying to get at?

 

[OmegaXXII]

Then people will call him a clone as well even though he isn't.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

What are you trying to get at?

Maybe that it seems the swords are always accepted despite how much they're used, when compared to hammer, which is unfair, no?

 

[OmegaXXII]

Swords>>>Hammers

 

[Oasis_S]

But at the same time Oasis, that would alienate him from his games. While it definatelywould be unique, it wouldn't be the Paper Mario from his games. Do you know what I mean?

It's not like alienating a character from how they are portrayed in their games is anything new in Smash. If Paper Mario won't bring anything interesting then I don't want him.

 

[Starphoenix]

Maybe that it seems the swords are always accepted despite how much they're used, when compared to hammer, which is unfair, no?

Hooray for reading comprehension!

@Oasis:

Or better yet, what can Ridley do that Charizard doesn't already cover?

 

[OmegaXXII]

Hmm..do you have any style in mind as far as P.Mario would go?

 

[Oasis_S]

@Oasis:

Or better yet, what can Ridley do that Charizard doesn't already cover?

What indeed?

 

[MechaWave]

Just going to expand my post:

Besides there are a few things he does as paper. He turns into an airplane to glide. A boat on water. Rolls up into rolled-up paper to "crawl." When he hits a ceiling with Usmash (Spring Jump) he falls like regular paper falling as if you dropped it from your head height. Many movement sequences Paper Mario does is usually referenced to the fact he is paper. (He cannot swim by himself, thus he must be a boat.) When he is attacked stuff happens because he's paper. When he does some attacks involving him spin he'll spin as if the environment is 3D (which it is) but is still 2D (unlike when G&W enters a door in SSE he somehow is magically 3D).

 

[OmegaXXII]

Blah blah blah, I want to discuss stages and such...

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Agreeing with Omega. Yeap. StarPhoenix, make your move!
(-lvl-)

 

[Gallowglass]

You obviously are scared of a clone, you fail hard!!! Your reasoning is so illogical that it doesn't even make sense.

Don't you understand, Mario and P.Mario are DIFFERENT!! God damn!!

He wouldn't work like Mario since his mechnic like tornados and such wouldn't allow P.Mario to do so, besides he ****** doesn't have a damn fireball move, WUT HE BURN HIMSELFZ HA!!

Flaming me isn't going to get your point across. Actually it makes it more entertaining because it shows how immature you are.

1: Paper Mario is much different then Mario, and certainly then Dr. Mario. Whether you want to get into the whole "they are the same character" is your choice. But it has little bearing on his chances.

2: So your argument is because Mario could do something that somehow makes Paper Mario invalid as a choice? Technically Luigi doesn't really do much more than Mario? Would you honestly advocate removing him? Because regardless of what you think the Mario RPG series, all of them, and mainline Mario series are considered different entities. If you really want to compare it to something compare it to Marvel comics. Which has one set normal universe and other alternate universes with the same characters, such as the Ultimate series.

3: No one is saying he has to use the partner mechanic. He has enough on his own merit without even needing to go that far.

1. Why doesn't that have an affect on his chances. While we are at it I think Tanooki Mario should be in because he has such a unique move potential and will be featuring in the new mario game for the 3DS.

2. If 3D Mario can do it then why don't they just give him the movesets? P. Mario is just an excuse to add more Mario moves. At least Luigi has differentiate himself since Mario 2. We can even argue that you could give P. Mario's moveset to Luigi then.

3. It was an arguement to the Partner moveset idea which people are stating.

Not going to happen. The most we can realistically expect is 53 characters, transformations included and that's not taking universal roster into account.He would be an very interesting, if unlikely, addition to Smash.

Yeah it's unlikely but he certainly would be a wtf character like G&W and ROB.

@Master Rapier:
1. And Toon Link/Young Link IS Link. So what? Ganondorf is Captain Falcon. Jigglypuff is Kirby. Paper Mario is NOT Mario other than the fact he as a character is Mario. But the things about him isn't. Comparing Dr. Mario doesn't even apply.

2. Star takes this one.

3. The partner system is my idea and what I believe Sakurai should implement. He can do whatever he wants with it but he doesn't need to have it. How is it unoriginal? I don't even know why you even compared this ability to other characters.

1. Those characters are actually different people in there own series. P. Mario and Mario are consider the same person. I've advocating Ganondorf to have a unique moveset since Melee. Jiggs and Kirby are tottally different in so many ways. Interesting paradox about him not being Mario and yet being him at the same time.

2. Good I don't like to repeat myself. (Even though this whole arguement is a repeat)

3. The other characters have had partner ideas long before Paper Mario came out. Kirby had characters like Coo, Pitch, Rick, Gooey, etc. Donkey Kong games had Rambi, Expresso, Enguard, and Squawks. They are pretty much the same concept and I don't see why adding P. Mario with partner abilities when you can add Dixie Kong or Kranky Kong in the same fashion.

 

[CalvinWars]

Oasis, making him unique doesn't mean he has to be different from his games.

But, I agree with omega we should go into stages.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Let's discuss that stage that Star wanted to post earlier.★

 

[Le vieux lapin]

sure thing your majesty....
What was that stage again?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Star couldn't post it because all the Paper Mario arguing.

Let's wait him to reply.

 

[Gallowglass]

Now I would really like to see a Paper Mario Stage with all the page flipping and changing scenes.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

Now I would really like to see a Paper Mario Stage with all the page flipping and changing scenes.

Like I said, that would be cool and unique.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I think Star did that already. Toad Town, wasn't it?

 

[Artsy Omni]

Why do people insist that a different version of a character HAS to be a clone? -_-

I could literally put Mario in the game TWICE with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MOVESET if I wanted. Sure, it's an extreme example, but it IS POSSIBLE.

I'll put it plain and simple: Clones are never necessary.

 

[MechaWave]

Now I would really like to see a Paper Mario Stage with all the page flipping and changing scenes.

This is actually one of my ideas. The backdrop could change and be set on a stage.

And personally I'd like to add some stage hazards myself. The backdrops in TTYD fell sometimes dealing very low damage and the audience threw stuff at you. This could be the same. If items are on the audience will throw some time-to-time.

When the backdrop changes it flips like a page. Each page could also bring some platforms too, and the platform setups could be neutral similar to Delfino Plaza.

I think Star did that already. Toad Town, wasn't it?

It was a nice concept but I like my idea better. It's basically the same though but with added features.

 

[augustoflores]

I think he meant that even though they're different, it's the same guy. You know, two MARIOS in Smash Bros: he might've meant it like it's like putting in Classic Megaman and Megaman from Battle Network-games.

...yeaaahhh, no.
Classic Mega Man and MegaMan.EXE are not the same character. Mario and Paper Mario are based on the same character, therefore are merely separated by "Dimensions". In the end, .EXE is in an alternate universe, Paper is in an alternate dimension. it's different.

find another analogy, peoples.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's another Victini move in here.

Personally, it needs a lot of improvements.

- I think we need to find a better Psychic move for Victini then Zen Headbutt. I think there are better choices for move sets then that for a Psychic move unless someone can further elaborate on why this is a great choice.

- I don't think Stored Power would work very well in SSB4. Characters will know to avoid that and it will likely not end up doing anything.

- No mention of A move sets. I was hoping for a full move set, not just specials.

- Lack of mention of how damaging the special moves and Final Smash are. How powerful are the moves going to be? That's something I would like to know.

- Entrance needs to be better. Victini just running it sounds too generic and too unoriginal.

- How the grabs would be used needs to be expanded upon. Just one sentence doesn't cut it.

- Only taunt that really interest me is the first one. The other two taunts should be dropped and one of them replaced with him saying "Victini!". Not sure on the third one.

If I can get off my lazy butt, I just might make a Victini move set myself since I haven't seen one that isn't either uninspiring, overpowered, or lacks explanations. Not that they were terrible.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Why do people insist that a different version of a character HAS to be a clone? -_-

I could literally put Mario in the game TWICE with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MOVESET if I wanted. Sure, it's an extreme example, but it IS POSSIBLE.

I'll put it plain and simple: Clones are never necessary.

@Mecha: you did a stage as well? Let's see!!!

Listen to this guy, he knows what he is saying with logic, trust me he knows. ★

 

[Starphoenix]

Your wish is my command Omega.

Since my revised Saturn Valley/Cave of the Past stage didn't seem to garner any attention, let's go with a new concept. If you saw my stage list for Smash Bros 4 you'll now have an idea of the stage of some concepts I'll be doing. So here are one of those.

Tin Tower, the tower where Ho-Oh resides from Pokémon Gold and Silver. This is one of those iconic stages that hold a lot of memories. With HeartGold and SoulSilver this stage is given even greater prominence. Though this is a second generation stage I see this as "the legendary stage". Meaning the place where if we had a playable legendary Pokémon, where they would find to be their home.

The stage is one of the simpler ones, you fight on the top of this tower. Easy to comprehend. The stage itself will have a very old Japanese style. With the architecture being reflective of that. Off on the ground you will see the remains of the Burned Tower, and at points three streaks of light will flash from there. Ho-Oh will roam the skies above you, descending to hover above the tower. Lugia is also a possibility to come and hover above this stage. Both birds can potentially attack the stage in the same fashion as Dialgia and Palkia on Spear Pillar.

-Ho-Oh would use his Fireblast move, engulfing the center in flame
-Lugia would use Aeroblast and send powerful sonic waves forward

Taking a cue from the anime you will also be able to find Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres. When they are in the area the skies will change color; ice blue, yellow, and fire red. Then the respective bird will fly past the skies. However, each bird will change the weather when they are present:

-Articuno will cause it to snow
-Zapdos will create a fierce thunderstorm
-Moltress will make the stage sweltering hot

But this does mean they are retired from the Pokéball position. It'll give some new legendaries a chance to shine.

Stage Example:

............________
........../................\
...___/...................\____
++................................++

"+": Open air, indicating platform end

Stage Name: Tin Tower
Stage Icon: Pokéball

-Tracks-
Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver - Burned Tower
Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver - Vs. Ho-Oh
Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver - Route 27
Pokémon HeartGold/SoulSilver - Champion Battle (Johto)
Pokémon Gold/Silver - Violet City
Pokémon FireRed/LeafGreen - Vs. Champion Blue
Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire - Groudon and Kyogre
Pokémon Stadium - Mewtwo
Pokémon Emerald - Vs. Deoxys
Pokémon Ranger - Entei's Rampage
Pokemon Diamond and Pearl - Victory Road (Brawl)
Pokémon Diamond and Pearl - Dialga and Palkia (Brawl)

I know this stage is overdone, but hopefully I added enough of my own flavor to it? Swapped some of the music from N's Castle to put in this stage. As they were better suited, which were primarily the HG/SS tracks. For those possibly curious as of to what N's track listing looks like after the change, see for yourself.

[COLLAPSE="N's Castle track listing"]Pokémon Black/White - N's Castle (Castle Bridge)*
Pokémon Black/White - N Battle
Pokémon Black/White - Team Plasma Battle
Pokémon Black/White - Wild Pokémon Battle (In a Pinch)*
Pokémon Black/White - Tower of Heaven
Pokémon Black/White - Legendary Battle
Pokémon Black/White - Ending
Pokémon Diamond and Pearl - Cynthia
Pokémon Platinum - Giratina Theme
Pokémon Mystery Dungeon - Sky Tower
Pokémon Trading Card Game - Club Leader Duel
Pokémon Diamond and Pearl - Team Galactic Battle! (Brawl)

*These song's are mixed together[/COLLAPSE]

 

[CalvinWars]

Nice stage star, your stages always impress. But about the legendary birds flying in the background; could they also attack like they did when they came out of pokeballs like in melee/brawl? I know you said they would be removed from poke balls because of this stage, but having them attack on this stage would help them live on in spirit.

 

[OmegaXXII]

OMG!! The Tin Tower!! At last !!★ so many memories this stage brings back, I honestly think this is your ultimetly best one aside from Custom Robo.

And the music choices seem phenomenal, so good, I skimmed through it, I'll give my full thoughts after I read and listen to every song.

 

[MechaWave]

@Star: I like it. We don't have many actual Japanese references in Smash.

@Mecha: you did a stage as well? Let's see!!!

Okay then. I'm not going to elaborate it though. I'm using Star's stage layout. :3

Series: Paper Mario
Icon: Paper airplane
Stage Name: Battleground

So this is Paper Mario's home stage. The crowd in front of you, watching you fight and a dynamic backdrop that is animated with some static images (such as trees.) Each backdrop is animated and sometimes have enemies that aren't actually apart of the stage.

Stage hazards aren't a very huge deal here. Here's the list:
• The static images (such as paper rocks, paper trees, etc.) apart of the backdrop has a chance of falling. They fall slowly and don't cause a lot of knockback or damage.
• There are these things in front of the stage you fight on that shower you with flames or ice. These aren't too much of a deal unless you're at a high percent.
• The audience will throw stuff at you. Be it may rocks or something else. These items cause very low knockback. If items are set to ON they will throw some.

There are a wide variety of dynamic backdrops that change as the fight continues. Some backdrops have extra static platforms that are like a pop-out storybook.

If you pick this stage and Goombella is chosen as your partner, pressing Down for your taunt will make her tattle your opponent like Snake's codec. She'll say wacky things. Other partners will say something too but just something random and not about your opponent.

This stage is sort of like PictoChat but the hazards aren't incredibly annoying. This stage also has a fairly high ceiling (upper blastline) when there aren't any platforms.

The main transformation is long and flat like Final Destination. In design it takes after the A-rank for the ground. One backdrop transforms into the Glitz Pit Areana with Jolene in the backdrop! The camera even focuses on you.

—— Tracklisting —— (I'm not good with this. SPM doesn't have many, if not none, battle songs.)
Paper Mario - Battle Fanfare
Paper Mario - Bowser: King of the Koopas
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door - Battle Theme
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door - Shadow Queen
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door - Smorg Battle

insert other boss songs here

And that is my stage. I must now leave you kind people.

 

[Starphoenix]

Nice stage star, your stages always impress. But about the legendary birds flying in the background; could they also attack like they did when they came out of pokeballs like in melee/brawl? I know you said they would be removed from poke balls because of this stage, but having them attack on this stage would help them live on in spirit.

Added that additional part. Though I may dislike it, it would give it a better feel.