New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Big-Cat]

Yo, Kuma if you're still listening.

There isn't much if you're going by staples of the franchise. Most that I think are unique aren't in the long run.

-Games already have dash dancing, (demonstrated by your vs. Post).
-Most games have a well rounded grab system.
-Multiple Special Moves
-Light and Heavy attacks
-Sprinting/Dashing via Spacing

+Ledge-game and recovery, Might be one (so King of the Hill)
+About face direction, Freeform perhaps? (Rising/Falling)
+Using bubbles as shield / block indicators?
+Tripping, not sure about footstools but I'll put it here.

By all means, I'm no expert on how the nomenclature goes. I hope you can expand on it.

You know, I forgot to mention that Smash isn't as unique as people say it is.

The only aspects that truly standout are the free form mobility and ledge-game. Dash dancing though, doesn't really exist in other fighters with El Fuerte being like the one big exception because his command dash can turn around. That's in the literal sense though as dash dancing is really another form of footsies.

That being said, I can't see what's the problem with adding some new FG mechanics and "Smash-ify" them so they are suitable for the game and don't feel misplaced.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I mean think about EarthBound itself? There were child beating references, KKK reference, TONS of drug references and pot references. It was an extremely questionable game, and it's not even MOTHER 2. MOTHER 2 is considered worse and was edited a lot for the USA.

As much an MOTHER fan as I am, I don't know how it did in EU, but I do know that America simply wasn't ready for the kind of humor EarthBound gave off and two or three years later it was re-reviewed and praised as being an RPG that was way ahead of its time.

Sorta America's fault though, we barely cared enough to advertise for it. So in the mean time, Japan had it selling relatively well and we considered it TRASH, selling it out of Best Buy about a month later for 5 dollars.

You got it wrong, America spent A LOT of money on an advertisement campaign for Earthbound because of how well it sold in Japan. The problem is it sold poorly in America and because of that financial fiasco, Nintendo are not willing to release ANYTHING to do with Earthbound in America again

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[BirthNote]

Here's some thoughts on Jessie and James/Bowser Junior.

For J&J, I doubt they'd be playable because:
-Characters must originate from games
-Characters must appear on a Nintendo system (prior to Smash)
They've been in Pokemon games, but they're anime characters. Adding them could validate characters like Goku/Naruto/Aang because they've also been on Nintendo systems. Plus, why wasn't Ash added instead of the trainer?

Some people think that Jr. would be a clone. Its possible, but there's differences between him and his dad that can prove otherwise, and those differences are mainly height/weight/age based. Here's what they can't have in common:
-Jabs, tilts--anything that involves slashing. Jr.'s claws are as dull as his horns due to age making these attacks useless, like biting without teeth. He'd have to rely on punching, or something else.
-Fire Breath. Bowser can shoot explosive blasts or roar out streams of fire easily, but his youngest? He has to take a deep breath just to spit a fireball. If he did use fire in smash, I doubt it would be like Bowser's or Charizard's.
-DownB, SideB, NeutralB (see above), Down Throw. The moves I listed in Bowser's case involve the monster throwing his weight around to hurt you. Can you imagine his son doing the same when he's much smaller and lighter than his pops? Would it make sense to suplex opponents, hold them still as he bodyslams them or dropping from the sky like a boulder when his dad, Kirby, DeDeDe, Yoshi (and a few others, but at an angle) already do?
The height/weight/age differences give Junior a lot of room for uniqueness, and other than obvious similarities (like being related, goals, personality), I only expect them to have similar shell attacks. They're turtles. Almost every koopa uses its shell for something (offense/defense) and so did Squirtle. Expecting them not to is like expecting a bird to not use its wings.

Lastly, all of these things can help the 2 stand apart from each other, because they wouldn't have variations, they'd have moves of their own. I haven't gone into a moveset, but by using this guideline he could be Bowser's (VERY luigified) Luigi. If that still isn't enough, then remember that Jr. could use HIS Clown Car, or even better, his paintbrush. (Shadow Mario not included. I'll explain why later.)

 

[Yink]

The advertisement wasn't really spent well, is what I'm trying to get at. We advertised it through oh, NINTENDO itself? Nintendo power, scratch 'n' sniffs...but we didn't really attempt to push for it to do better. So yes we spent a lot but didn't really do well with it.

Besides, the guy who actually translated MOTHER 3 (the fan translation) pretty much went to them saying "I don't want anything for this, but you're free to use it for the game itself" and of course Nintendo's not going to take it.

EDIT: But I should probably stop here, this is horribly off-topic and I apologize for that.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Whoa!! A BBR member posting here? That's a first.

 

[Oasis_S]

I don't think any Jr. supporter thinks he would be a clone. With his paintbrush, he'd be one of the most unique characters in Smash. More unique than Paper Mario and ESPECIALLY Toad.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Yink]

Whoa!! A BBR member posting here? That's a first.

Psh! I maybe be a member of the BBR, but I'm still a fan of almost all video games, especially Nintendo. Plus, I actually do enjoy reading this thread. <3 The ideas interest me.

 

[BirthNote]

Ha, why wouldn't toad be unique?
Say goodnight Zamus fans.

I think Toad would be pretty unique, and even though I like Jr. more, I wouldn't be surprised if he got in over Bowser's kid or Paper Mario (who also seems unique) because he doesn't look like someone who's already in. XD

Also, I'm not sure what you meant about Zamus. She removes her helmet at the end of her first game, and since she was always in Smash (just suited) I think it wouldn't matter if her ZS self was revealed outside of video games.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Here's some thoughts on Jessie and James/Bowser Junior.

For J&J, I doubt they'd be playable because:
-Characters must originate from games
-Characters must appear on a Nintendo system (prior to Smash)
They've been in Pokemon games, but they're anime characters. Adding them could validate characters like Goku/Naruto/Aang because they've also been on Nintendo systems. Plus, why wasn't Ash added instead of the trainer?

I disagree with this why?

Because The pokemon franchise is owned by GameFreak which happens to be owned by Nintendo, unlike Pokemon, DBZ, Naruto, Aang or any other such anime isn't directed owned under Nintendo therefore making it 3rd party or in this case, it would be 4th party, the fact that Pokemon appears to have an Anime is invalid since it happens to be directly owned under Nintendo, therefore it can be considered an exception to the
rule but wouldn't exactly apply to other such animes.

I love your idea of A Team Rocket duo, I myself suggested the idea of either having Jessie & James with an iconic Meowth or Giovanni with Mewtwo being part of his moveset, I could very well see them in Smash since again they happen to be under Nintendo like Pikachu, Jiggs and such.

Psh! I maybe be a member of the BBR, but I'm still a fan of almost all video games, especially Nintendo. Plus, I actually do enjoy reading this thread. <3 The ideas interest me.

Ha! Don't worry about it, I happen to also be the only pranked! guy who actually enjoys this thread, it's always nice to see new people add to the discussion.

 

[Deleted member]

- Anyways, I think if you switched out some characters for new characters, you might get a more fresh feel.

- Switch PTkanto with PTanother generation, and Wolf/Falco with Krystal/New Franchise.

- cut Bowser Jr./Lucario for two new franchises

- Possibly dropping Lucario for another Pokemon. But I guess that's just preference.

- Cutting Snake/Sonic for another smaller franchise/new 3rd parties

In general, I would try to make the newcomer count higher. I counted 9 I think? Possibly 10. Aim for 13 - 16 and I would say you have the perfect balance. It gets hard to make a fresh feeling roster with 44 or less slots without making cuts. It's a double edged sword really. I mean, you don't add enough newcomers, people like me complain, you cut the wrong character and everyone is pissed/crying.

As we've seen in Brawl, while he did say not every character would return, the only characters he intended to leave off were Pichu and Young Link. Dr. Mario, Roy, and Mewtwo were all planned to return in some way or form but got dropped. The latter cut cause an uproar within the community. Based off this, I think Sakurai is going to be a lot more careful with cutting characters. Honestly, the only character I see that wouldn't cause such a big deal is Toon Link and Lucas (And Lucario providing he is replaced by Mewtwo,). Everyone else would cause as much outrage if not more so then Mewtwo's cut did. Being someone who is fiercely against any sort of cuts even to make room for newcomers, I think most people would prefer nine newcomers and no cuts to 13-16 newcomers and 4-7 cuts because from what I've seen, most people want the characters we have to be solidified into the roster and not just be thrown away just because the developer said so.

Cuts should only be done if necessary. The only two characters that actually deserved one were Pichu and Dr. Mario. From the Brawl roster, no one deserves the axe so everyone should stay. And considering that I think Sakurai agrees with me in that cuts are something that should not be done for the sake of it, I think there's an outside chance that Sakurai will keep everyone we have in the game and just add on to it and even if we do get cuts, the chances of it going over three is almost zilch and I even find three unlikely at best (Not counting third-party characters of course as they aren't guarantee).

 

[Big-Cat]

Yeah, that dash dancing bit was a pun on how you play Kuma, I'm sure no one took it seriously.

How many versions of Brawl have you played exactly? I think you mentioned P.M. once or twice. I ask this because I've tried to envision more mechanics of the norm and I find it to be difficult.

I've only played four and the mods have been only a little bit. I've played vBrawl, Brawl+, Brawl-, and an alpha build of Project M.

 

[OmegaXXII]

The only character that needs to be axed from Brawl is Lucario .

I'd really like to see Mewtwo make his epic return as well along with the following:

•Pikachu
•Pokemon Trainer (any trainer would be fine)
•Victini
•Jiggylypuff

I don't really see Lucario demanded so badly as Mewtwo is so I rather have Mewtwo back instead, as for Zoroark, he would just make Mewtwo's and Lucario's chances go down considerably due to the similar bodytype, therefore I support Victini solely for this reason.

 

[Oasis_S]

I think Toad would be pretty unique, and even though I like Jr. more, I wouldn't be surprised if he got in over Bowser's kid or Paper Mario (who also seems unique) because he doesn't look like someone who's already in. XD

One can tack on a moveset to any character. Adding Toad to the roster would just be doing it for the sake of it. Just cause. It's pretty hard to imagine him doing anything that would actually be interesting. At least Paper Mario would LOOK interesting and have a moveset that isn't grasping at straws. Bowser Jr. would surely play interestingly.

 

[Big-Cat]

Funny you said that Oasis. I gave a lot of input in berserker's Toad moveset that will make you think otherwise.

 

[Oasis_S]

Has he updated it yet? :o

It didn't really convince me before.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What would be interesting is if Toad had a Kamikaze attack, and when he explodes, another toad jumps out from the background to take his place

 

[Big-Cat]

Has he updated it yet? :o

It didn't really convince me before.

I don't know. I sent my input last night.

 

[OmegaXXII]

If I had to pick between the 3 most considered Mario newcomers is say Paper Mario, although Bowser Jr. Is at a close 2nd. Why?

•Paper Mario would provide different style and new physics that have yet to be seen in Smash, his moveset would totally prove it otherwise such as turning into an airplane an such.

•Bowser Jr. Is a antagonistt, has a major role on relevent Mario game, and could utilize his Shadow Mario transformation along with his paintbrush, how awesome would that be.

Basically I'd like to see both.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[BirthNote]

I disagree with this why?

Because The pokemon franchise is owned by GameFreak which happens to be owned by Nintendo, unlike Pokemon, DBZ, Naruto, Aang or any other such anime isn't directed owned under Nintendo therefore making it 3rd party or in this case, it would be 4th party, the fact that Pokemon appears to have an Anime is invalid since it happens to be directly owned under Nintendo, therefore it can be considered an exception to the
rule but wouldn't exactly apply to other such animes.

I love your idea of A Team Rocket duo, I myself suggested the idea of either having Jessie & James with an iconic Meowth or Giovanni with Mewtwo being part of his moveset, I could very well see them in Smash since again they happen to be under Nintendo like Pikachu, Jiggs and such.



Ha! Don't worry about it, I happen to also be the only pranked! guy who actually enjoys this thread, it's always nice to see new people add to the discussion.

I learned about a month back Nintendo owns 30% of that company (which is why there are some pokemon aps on mobile phones. Nintendo has no say in that sense). Its not most of the company, but it is 30% more than their "ownership(lol)" of DBZ, and so on, so you have a point. I still wonder why they didn't put Ash in as the Trainer. What they did in Brawl gives me the impression that they may want to avoid anime characters even if they're possible.

Oh, and the Jessie/James thing wasn't an idea. I was just mentioning them both in generally as characters I doubt would appear, and reasons why.

 

[Oasis_S]

•Bowser Jr. Is a antagonistt, has a major role on relevent Mario game, and could utilize his Shadow Mario transformation along with his paintbrush, how awesome would that be.

Nooo.

He doesn't need to rip-off Zelda/Sheik to justify being "unique" (WHICH, OBVIOUSLY, WOULDN'T BE UNIQUE). He could have a very interesting playstyle purely with his paintbrush.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Here is Berserker's updated Toad moveset with awesome Kuma input, I was the first to see it, it's awesome.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12843555&postcount=2

@Kuma:Would you be interested to look at my Black Knight moveset as well? Berserker already looked at it and will give me some input over it, it would be nice if you did as well.

 

[Deleted member]

So, what do people think of this roster? It's a 35-slot roster, but beware, over half of the cast does not make the cut in this one.

I found that one to be horrible.

 

[OmegaXXII]

So, what do people think of this roster? It's a 35-slot roster, but beware, over half of the cast does not make the cut in this one.

I found that one to be horrible.

It made me facepalm, cutting alot of veterans would cause chaos and havoc among the Smash community, total madness I say, but I will give him props that he likes the Black Knight which is always a plus in my book.

 

[BirthNote]

•Bowser Jr. Is a antagonistt, has a major role on relevent Mario game, and could utilize his Shadow Mario transformation along with his paintbrush, how awesome would that be.

Basically I'd like to see both.

I agree with what oasis said about the transformation, and I'd like to point out that Jr. probably can't even do it anymore. In Sunshine, he had a black and dark blue bib with a drawing of Mario's 'stache. That allowed him to transform, and the brush allowed him to wreak havoc. Junior doesn't have that bib anymore, but he does still have that/a paintbrush since he uses it in spinoffs. I really doubt Shadow Mario would be a part of his moveset since he uses a regular bib.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I've decided to make a Geno Moveset. He's going to act somewhat like a mixture between Mewtwo and Snake

 

[OmegaXXII]

Mewtwo and Snake you say?? Let's see it!!!

 

[Big-Cat]

Say appropriate tweaks make a return (hit-stun and dash dancing), what is there room for?

Be sincere because I'd like to get a good picture of what you envision. Personally I find it difficult to figure what else to even have time for! (I guess thats based on how frustating my CPU plays have been lately with my friends not around)

I use B+ as a model since I find it to be the most challenging/balanced.

Ok. Here are my ideas.

[COLLAPSE="Ideas"]

• Special Canceling - Cancel the recovery of normals into specials. A fighting game staple and was an accient originally but has been kept since.
• Jump Canceling - Aside fro mthe Melee version, you can jump out of the recovery of normals and aerials allowing for more combos.
• Chains - Cancel certain normals into other normal attacks to increase the pace and allow traditional combos to exist.
• DI Changes - DI kicks in after a specified amount of hits are chained successfully. Not sure on this one though as DI's a tricky animal.
• Supers - Can be special canceled into. Requieres a certain amount of meter and behave as balanced Final Smashes. The current ones exist as impractical instant kill moves. The input for these supers would be Taunt+B so as to not get in the way of the neutral B attack.
• Turn Around - In the air, press any one of the taunt buttons + A to turn around in the air.
• Air Tether Changes - Allow tethers to have additional properties to them. Holding the grab input for Samus tosses them ahead or behind. With Link, you can reel them in as possible examples.
• Assorted changes to characters to make them more deep and exciting like Zelda's Din's Fire in Project M and Bowser's hyper armor attacks.

[/COLLAPSE]

Here is Berserker's updated Toad moveset with awesome Kuma input, I was the first to see it, it's awesome.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12843555&postcount=2

@Kuma:Would you be interested to look at my Black Knight moveset as well? Berserker already looked at it and will give me some input over it, it would be nice if you did as well.

Glad you like it.

For the record, my input for Toad's specials were Bomb, Toad Rush, Heavy Headbutt, and Super Jump.

I chose these because I wanted to emphasize who Toad was - Small, strong in terms of weight lifting, fast, and a good jumper to complement the rest - and avoided the various Mario items as much as possible. Hence, the Bomb and Super Jump are the only non-Toad specials, but their properties are highly unique. I wanted to have at least one special for Toad that would define him and show that it was something only he could do. Toad Rush was that attack.

I'll see what I can do with Black Knight since I never played the game's the Black Knight was in.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So, what do people think of this roster? It's a 35-slot roster, but beware, over half of the cast does not make the cut in this one.

I found that one to be horrible.

Here's the image that SSBF is referring to...

And yes it looks quite bad. Mistake number one is obviously the involvement of Eternal Darkness and Geist, which are M rated titles.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I agree with what oasis said about the transformation, and I'd like to point out that Jr. probably can't even do it anymore. In Sunshine, he had a black and dark blue bib with a drawing of Mario's 'stache. That allowed him to transform, and the brush allowed him to wreak havoc. Junior doesn't have that bib anymore, but he does still have that/a paintbrush since he uses it in spinoffs. I really doubt Shadow Mario would be a part of his moveset since he uses a regular bib.

Well I believe him not having bib wouldn't necessarly be a factor for considering his moveset, after all Smash isn't canon.

Anyway what kind of Bowser Jr. moveset would you suggest, as I have only seen a Shadow Mario based one?

 

[Oasis_S]

Well I believe him not having bib wouldn't necessarly be a factor for considering his moveset, after all Smash isn't canon.

Anyway what kind of Bowser Jr. moveset would you suggest, as I have only seen a Shadow Mario based one?

He should probably keep the bib anyway, if only to give him more aesthetic differences from Bowser, lol.

And just imagine that his paintbrush could fling droplets of paint with each attack. Suppose, say, his Fsmash was just a swing like Ike's, but it sent out a few damaging droplets. Normals would have both close and mid/long range uses. THEN imagine that you could also change what kind of paint he has on the end. Electric blue paint stuns, Fire red paint sends opponents upward I suppose. Then he has his normal brown paint. You could also marks parts of the stage with it...

Hell, you could even make it where he "draws" on the 2D plane in which you fight. Suppose his Nair was similar to Meta-Knight's, a circular flipping attack. It could leave an O shape in the air for a short time as though it was drawn on the screen. There are a lot of possibilities... The potential for his moveset excites me more than any other possible character.

 

[OmegaXXII]

...For the record, my input for Toad's specials were Bomb, Toad Rush, Heavy Headbutt, and Super Jump.

I chose these because I wanted to emphasize who Toad was - Small, strong in terms of weight lifting, fast, and a good jumper to complement the rest - and avoided the various Mario items as much as possible. Hence, the Bomb and Super Jump are the only non-Toad specials, but their properties are highly unique. I wanted to have at least one special for Toad that would define him and show that it was something only he could do. Toad Rush was that attack.

I'll see what I can do with Black Knight since I never played the game's the Black Knight was in.

Hey, don't worry about it, I got his moveset down, I just need some help as far as mechanics go such as speed, percentage rate, knockback, weight stats, etc...

 

[Big-Cat]

Hey, don't worry about it, I got his moveset down, I just need some help as far as mechanics go such as speed, percentage rate, knockback, weight stats, etc...

Well, I can't help with that. When I make my movesets, I go into the style of the character. I don't take weight into too much thought because you'll have to make the stats suitable for the character and playstyle, and to have a truly suitable and balanced one would require concern on the other characters. Notice that when I went into the Toad and Krystal movesets, I gave rather general terms for their stats.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Need inspiration, can anyone think of a light, fast, ranged character I can use as inspiration for the moveset? I got an idea for the general meta game a Geno player would use, but having trouble with some of the moves

 

[Oasis_S]

Not one of you in that big ***-thread had an idea for a moveset~? Ohoho~*SNICKER*

 

[Big-Cat]

Need inspiration, can anyone think of a light, fast, ranged character I can use as inspiration for the moveset? I got an idea for the general meta game a Geno player would use, but having trouble with some of the moves

what kind of ranged are we talking about?

 

[OmegaXXII]

He should probably keep the bib anyway, if only to give him more aesthetic differences from Bowser, lol.

And just imagine that his paintbrush could fling droplets of paint with each attack. Suppose, say, his Fsmash was just a swing like Ike's, but it sent out a few damaging droplets. Normals would have both close and mid/long range uses. THEN imagine that you could also change what kind of paint he has on the end. Electric blue paint stuns, Fire red paint sends opponents upward I suppose. Then he has his normal brown paint. You could also marks parts of the stage with it...

Hell, you could even make it where he "draws" on the 2D plane in which you fight. Suppose his Nair was similar to Meta-Knight's, a circular flipping attack. It could leave an O shape in the air for a short time as though it was drawn on the screen. There are a lot of possibilities... The potential for his moveset excites me more than any other possible character.

Very creative thinking indeed, so I'm guessing Bowser Jr, has lot to go by than just a simple Shadow Mario transformation, now that you mentioned it he seems to also have a style of his own just like P. Mario does, and the fact that he's antagonist excites me to see him playable. Hmm...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

what kind of ranged are we talking about?

I've got some of his smashes and combos firing projectiles.