New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Big-Cat]

Wooow. I didn't know that.

So what do you think? Should wave dashing return? You think the air dodge system should be like Brawl's air dodge or melee's?

Change the input for wavedashing to QCF/QCB + Shield and I think everyone would be reasonably happy. It doesn't get in the way of anything.

I think a hybrid air dodge is for the best. You don't get a helpless state if you do a neutral one, but the others will.

Yeah. I hope dash dancing is back.

How about L-cancelling? Identical to Super Smash Bros. Melee, L-Canceling is now manual. A shield button press is required within a 6-frame window before landing during an aerial to cancel half of an aerial's landing lag. Manual L-Canceling increases the learning curve and adds technical demand to the game, and L-Canceling itself adds many options for characters who previously had too much landing lag on moves to be useful.

Get rid of L-Canceling, just reduce landing recovery on aerials. There is no real reason as to why you shouldn't L-Cancel. Therefore, it's a pointless barrier.

I wonder if Kuma would support me if I said

"CUT NESS! LUCAS, KUMATORA, AND MASKED MAN FOR SM4SH!!"

Nah, keep Ness. I'm neutral on Claus, but I love me some bear-tiger. PK Ground alone has a lot of potential. That, and she'd be perfect as a C. Viper clone.

Speaking of Harry Potter, Kumatora makes me think of Tonks for some reason.

Pink hair, I guess.

I thought of Tonks looking like Kumatora after watching the 5th movie.

 

[SmashChu]

I understand this perspective, I've gone there myself. However there are some titles that are under the branch of Nintendo that might be dwarfed by all star titles, all the while being decent titles.

Some like camelot and Hal's earthbound might be secure, but upcoming games like cave story could use the representation. Those of which make interesting characters in themselves.

That's a problem in of itself. Every game could use the representation because it might boost sales, but that's not how Smash works (inb4 Roy). All of the characters from Smash 64 had their games long since out and Pokemon was already very successful (which is why it got two characters). Characters should be look at for their own merit, not because of representation.

Third parties are different even still. Snake was guest character and Sakurai refers to Sonic and him as such throughout the Dojo. Adding them "just cause," wont work and is likely to turn something fun into something off putting. No reason to become Soul Caliber.

I would ask you to mention those characters. However, the problem with that is the shoe-in mentality. You talk Dixie, they throw in Medusa, some say Jr. then a Toad/Geno debate begins. Sure there are several to choose from, but all stir dissent in their own right for a spot.

EDIT- Princess Aisya would make a good anti-pit in my book, but there aint a way she's getting through the door with that rifle.

...so SmashChu, what other Nintendo characters do you have in mind aside from the obvious suggested ones?

Just throwing off a few
Little Mac and other boxers
Ridley
The Hunters
Heck, even Anthony Higgs
the characters from Kid Icarus Uprising (there are three of them)
Mario has a lot (Rosalina, Waluigi, Toad ect)
F-Zero has Goroh among others.
Ghirahim from Skyward Sword
The Warioware characters. Kat and Ana might be cool
Krystal
some other Fire Emblem charactetrs besides the Black Knight (I always thought Lyn would be cool)
The new Pokemon (we haven't even thought of new Pokeballs)
The characters from Nintendo's new RPGs like Xenoblade (Shulk) or the Last Story (Elza)
Dixie Kong
King K. Rool
The Kirby partners like Rick, Coo and Kine.
Karate Joe from Rhythm Heaven (look up "Karate Man")
Maybe something from Fossile Fighters
The but load of classic games like Startropics and Mysterious Murasame Castle

This is also excluding games like Golden Sun or Sin and Punishment. Nintendo also has a lot of obscure games like For Frog the Bell Tolls. This is excluding, even still, some left field old school character. Some of these have been talked about, while others seem ignored. There is enough to make another 2 games, and this doesn't include the fact that Nintendo might make new series (at least Miyamoto has said he wants to make a new one).

 

[Deleted member]

Day Twenty-Five of Rate Their Chances. I am very sorry for the delay. I tried logging on yesterday and it wouldn't let me.

I have a lot to respond to, so I'm getting to that now.

 

[Deleted member]

Wow, missed out on an interesting day.

Okay, in terms of Sonic reps, while I doubt we'll get two, if it does happen, the most likely and the best choice are Sonic and Tails. They are the Mario & Luigi of Sega, except of course they would be completely unique. Still, it shouldn't come before one of Mega Man, Ryu Hayabusa, Professor Layton, Slime, or Travis Touchdown get in.[COLLAPSE="Responding to posts"]

Not all newcomers have flawed logic. You're one of the smart newcomers.

All of us have flawed logic, regardless of how old and new we are.

What if you changed it where his banana peels tripped only once and then they disappear?

I think that'll work.

How do you guy feel about having some of the most famous Flipnote characters brought from NDSi platform to SSB4?

Meh, not really interested in them and I'm not sure what they could bring.

Tails is my best bet, he could either be partly like Sonic with the Down B Spinball if they wanted similarity through the series like Star Fox or Mario/Luigi or totally unique using gadgets and etc. Tails has a lot of potential, and is beloved enough. He's even an icon in and of himself to promote the game as a guest.

Tails should be completely unique with his gadgets. If he gets in, I am very curious to see what Sakurai/Sega does with him.

Two is more games than Geno has ever been in.

He did appear in two games, just that Maroi Superstar RPG was a cameo.

What's with all the Ness hate? I mean he's gonna be in, right??

A one-man army lead by Oasis_S.

I vote for Mario/LoZ/Pokemon not getting a fifth slot. Make room for more series. >8OOO

I don't have a problem with Legend of Zelda having only four reps, but Mario and Pokemon deserve at least five slots.

Pokemon:

Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Pokemon Trainer Kanto
Zoroark/Victini

I just find this. . . boring. :/

We all know, deep down this is just what is most likely, and it makes me sad.

I have said this before and I will continue to say this; Pokemon deserves five slots. Most everyone has the move set potentials to be a playable character. The sad part? Very few of these will ever make it as a playable character. Given this and the fact that Mario is almost guarantee a fifth slot, there is no reason why Pokemon should be relegated to just four.

This is also why I am terrified about Zoroark getting in as he pretty much means Mewtwo/Lucario are getting the boot and I am heavily against his inclusion at all cost (That and I don't find him to be interesting). This is the main reason why I push for Victini; to make getting five slots that much more realistic and leaves rooms for Lucario/Mewtwo to return. Otherwise, we are likely to enter a cycle of disappointment in the Pokemon series as fans of said Pokemon have to watch as they have to give it up to the next gen. It really should not be this way.

The only franchise that is truely over repped is Earthbound. Mario is Mario. It's just the biggest gaming franchise ever.

Not sure why you don't think Star Fox is over represented, especially considering that you said it barely merited two.

I find it funny that sword users are treated like shotos here sometimes. We have so many punch and kick characters and no one complains.

I will say this is incredibly ironic. Personally, I don't mind more sword users as long as they bring something new and are fun to play with. As a matter of fact, why don't we have more magic users? Micaiah would be interesting.

Why would anyone want that when they can get say, Black Knight?

This is a good point. It is better to expand on the amount of characters a series gets regardless of relevancy with others variety of characters instead of using characters from the same class over and over again and possibly to replace the playable lord not named Marth. It's like if the team decided to replace Lucario with Zoroark for the sake of representing the fifth gen (You can simply make a fifth slot for Zoroark/Victini, not that hard to do) and replacing Zoroark with a 6th/7th gen Pokemon, etc; that will not go over well with fans.

Oh, and to bring this back on topic. Would you rather have a boxing ring Punch Out stage or a King DDD boxing ring stage?

I would much rather have a Punch-Out!! stage. Would be kind of embarrassing for Little Mac's stage to be from a different series.

Would anyone else like to make a "Super Smash Bros 4th Strike" roster for funsies? You try to have Twenty or less veterans return, while bringing in twenty or more newcomers. It's pretty fun. I got the idea from Street Fighter III. Only four characters returned in that game.

I'll do one eventually, although to be frank, I would rather have just eight good Nintendo newcomers and Mega Man with no cuts then 20+ newcomers and tons of cuts.[/COLLAPSE]

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I hope the next pokemon movie is about Genesect. He'd make a perfect villain in smash.

I can see moves, awkwardly using the giant cannon on it's back.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Deleted member]

@PsychoIncarnate: Genesect would be great and would be very unique. He'd be like the Mewtwo of the fifth gen and if he's decent, would be a blast to play with.

Anyway, I have four rosters (Credit goes to Goldenguy007 on GameFAQs):

37-slots

This one is based on my lowest expectations for SSB4 and if we get universal roster without third-party characters. It was thirty-six slots when he made it, but I made a minor adjustment to get it to 37-slots since I asked for that, but he still did a good job on all of these.

44-slots

This one I'm predicting in the case an universal roster doesn't happen with third-party characters.

49-slots

This one I think would make almost everyone with realistic expectations happy. This is a semi-realistic, semi-wishlist list and for some reason, if we don't get universal roster, I have a gut feeling we could be seeing this cast.

60-slots

Now this is my dream list, which of course stands no chance of happening.

So, what do you think?

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know too much about Chibi Robo actually.

With the exception of about five characters, the 60 roster looks fine.

Edit- I'd just be ecstatic with a 53/54 man, though I think I've been able to get it down to 50/51.

Honestly, I would be absolutely ecstatic if we got the 49-slot roster I mentioned. It gets all the deserving characters in and pleases many fans.

 

[Shorts]

All I can really comment on is the fact that there is a major lack of new blood coming in on the 44slot roster. I picked this one because I find the number the most realistic.
Here's some ideas.

- Anyways, I think if you switched out some characters for new characters, you might get a more fresh feel.

- Switch PTkanto with PTanother generation, and Wolf/Falco with Krystal/New Franchise.

- cut Bowser Jr./Lucario for two new franchises

- Possibly dropping Lucario for another Pokemon. But I guess that's just preference.

- Cutting Snake/Sonic for another smaller franchise/new 3rd parties

In general, I would try to make the newcomer count higher. I counted 9 I think? Possibly 10. Aim for 13 - 16 and I would say you have the perfect balance. It gets hard to make a fresh feeling roster with 44 or less slots without making cuts. It's a double edged sword really. I mean, you don't add enough newcomers, people like me complain, you cut the wrong character and everyone is pissed/crying.

Honestly, I would be absolutely ecstatic if we got the 49-slot roster I mentioned. It gets all the deserving characters in and pleases many fans.

So long as the game is balanced, which gets harder the more characters you add.

 

[SmashChu]

You don't even have to mention Fire Emblem alone to recognize the representation factor. Considering how popular that series became stateside following the release of Melee, its no doubt that representation was achieved.

-Listing off a few, Shiek and Yink represented the latest release at the time.
-During the 64 days, Ness made his debut as a significant icon because of smash.
-Pit hadn't had a single game released over a decade ago, same detail for the ice climbers

Note that none of those characters got in because they were good. Earthbound had a huge following (and HAL helped with it) and Pit was already in high demand. The new game is more of a result that people have been begging for a new Kid Icarus.

This I can consent to, however, recognize that my use of the term representation is a leading point.

Meaning that worthwhile additions, given the face time, could have the the quality their products improved.

Based on the bandwagon appeal of major icons, the merit of creative characters gets overlooked.With the "all star" mentality having the effect that it does, I am glad that Pit had been given invested interest. That's the light that I'd like to see Jiro the Armadillo in.
-

Yes and no. It's not like Smash, alone, made the series. Many characters get in because people want them. The closets we have to an advertisement is Roy but it may be that they just needed a clone for Marth. Smash helped Fire Emblem as it gave Nintendo an excuse to localize it. It kid of helped Kid Icarus, but there was already demand for it before Pit got into Smash.

 

[Sonic Poke]

@PsychoIncarnate: Genesect would be great and would be very unique. He'd be like the Mewtwo of the fifth gen and if he's decent, would be a blast to play with.

Anyway, I have four rosters (Credit goes to Goldenguy007 on GameFAQs):

37-slots

This one is based on my lowest expectations for SSB4 and if we get universal roster without third-party characters. It was thirty-six slots when he made it, but I made a minor adjustment to get it to 37-slots since I asked for that, but he still did a good job on all of these.

44-slots

This one I'm predicting in the case an universal roster doesn't happen with third-party characters.

49-slots

This one I think would make almost everyone with realistic expectations happy. This is a semi-realistic, semi-wishlist list and for some reason, if we don't get universal roster, I have a gut feeling we could be seeing this cast.

60-slots

Now this is my dream list, which of course stands no chance of happening.

So, what do you think?

I liked the third list. Look at my.

[collapse="My Roster"]

[/collapse]

 

[Shorts]

Sonic Poke: Team Rocket's Jessie and James are originally from the anime, soooo they can't make it into smash.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Sonic Poke: Team Rocket's Jessie and James are originally from the anime, soooo they can't make it into smash.

Jesse and James was my representation more popular and viable for "Team Rocket", but there are others who could play the role of "Team Rocket". Oh, and if I'm not mistaken, I saw James in Pokemon Stadium.

 

[---]

James wasn't in PS, but Team Rocket was in Pokemon Yellow. But it did come out after the anime so Shortie is still right.

 

[Big-Cat]

Sonic Poke: Team Rocket's Jessie and James are originally from the anime, soooo they can't make it into smash.

If you were to consider Team Rocket as Canon Immigrants thanks to both the card game and Pokemon Yellow, they are technically valid.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I liked the third list. Look at my.

[collapse="My Roster"]

[/collapse]

1: Waluigi is a spin-off exclusive character, so it's quite unlikely that he'll make the cut.

2: Ghirahim? Please, his only chance is either an Assist Trophy or a trophy cameo. Also, no Toon Link is just wrong.

3: Jessie and James are anime characters, despite the fact that they appeared in the Yellow version of Pokemon. They're obviously a no go, and they would destroy Pokemon Trainer's uniqueness.

4: Ninten, do we really need three EarthBound reps? It's a semi-dead franchise.

5: No Saki, no Isaac, no Starfy, no Bowser Jr.? Why they're not on there is beyond me.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[lordvaati]

@Barbasol, post #17001: Let's see...

Likely Candidates
Ridley
Bowser Jr.


Considerable Candidates
King K. Rool
Tingle
Samurai Goroh

Moderate Candidates
Toad
Paper Mario
Black Knight
Palutena
Medusa
Black Shadow
Dixie Kong
Meowth
Victini
Zoroark

Unlikely Candidates
Skull Kid
Ghirahim
Dark Samus
Mewtwo (it was cut from Brawl)
Deoxys
Darkrai
Lyn
Siglud
Caeda
Deathborn
Claus
Ninten
A different Pokemon Trainer


Impossible Candidates
Vaati
Gardevoir
Genesect (it has to be officially revealed first)
Roy (same as Mewtwo, but much lower odds of returning)
Kamek
Waluigi
Baby Mario Bros.
Dr. Eggman
Knuckles
Tails
Shadow the Hedgehog

Fixed for truth.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The game doesn't HAVE to be balanced as long as a good number of the characters are competitive worthy

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Sonic Poke]

1: Waluigi is a spin-off exclusive character, so it's quite unlikely that he'll make the cut.

2: Ghirahim? Please, his only chance is either an Assist Trophy or a trophy cameo. Also, no Toon Link is just wrong.

3: Jessie and James are anime characters, despite the fact that they appeared in the Yellow version of Pokemon. They're obviously a no go, and they would destroy Pokemon Trainer's uniqueness.

4: Ninten, do we really need three EarthBound reps? It's a semi-dead franchise.

5: No Saki, no Isaac, no Starfy, no Bowser Jr.? Why they're not on there is beyond me.

1. The fact that Waluigi is a character exclusive spin-off has no influence on their likelihood. I remember WarioWare and Mario Kart are seris Spin-Off.

2 - He is a main antagonist, and I see no problem in your entry.

3 - Jessie and James not only appeared in Pokemon Yellow, Pokemon Naranja they came in too! link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTtjsfnhWLw&feature=related and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jd6XX3X3PY

4 - Same as 2, but replace the word antagonist for the protagonist.

5 - Saki is cool, Isaac is exceeded, Starfy sucks, and Bowser Jr. A semi-clone.

If you were to consider Team Rocket as Canon Immigrants thanks to both the card game and Pokemon Yellow, they are technically valid.

Exactly, but do not forget Pokemon Naranja.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Bowser Jr., a semi-clone? Hardly. Bowser Jr. is not like his dad, since unlike Bowser, Bowser Jr. is faster and less powerful, and he does have the potential to have his own moveset.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Hey, is that guy that made the SSB4 icons still have that thread? I would like an icon for BEN

Using the picture of Elegy of Emptiness as the picture. LOL

Edit: To show my way of supporting MM Remake and Operation Moonfall

Bowser Jr., a semi-clone? Hardly. Bowser Jr. is not like his dad, since unlike Bowser, Bowser Jr. is faster and less powerful, and he does have the potential to have his own moveset.

Toon Link is also capable of having his own moveset and look what they did to him. Not to mention GANONDORF of all people.

The fact is, Sakurai is lazy and would most likely not give Bowser Jr. a unique moveset based solely on his name

 

[Sonic Poke]

Toon Link is also capable of having his own moveset and look what they did to him. Not to mention GANONDORF of all people.

The fact is, Sakurai is lazy and would most likely not give Bowser Jr. a unique moveset based solely on his name

That's what I was talking about!

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Big-Cat]

The game doesn't HAVE to be balanced as long as a good number of the characters are competitive worthy

Actually, for a lot of people a game needs to as balanced as possible. This way, anyone can choose the character they want and the results matter more on an even combination of general player skill and skill with that character. No one wants a game where the character does the work for them.

Toon Link is also capable of having his own moveset and look what they did to him. Not to mention GANONDORF of all people.

The fact is, Sakurai is lazy and would most likely not give Bowser Jr. a unique moveset based solely on his name

I blame the following on these happenings:

1. Sakurai's obsession with having a single player emphasis.
2. Sakurai doing all the creative work on the characters, including balancing.

Had he had his priorities straightened out and allowed the rest of the team to put their input in, things would've been different.

 

[Sonic Poke]

The Kuma is right

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Big-Cat]

I have a question for you guys.

Some of the suggestions I and others have made have commonly meant responses such as "X is not Smash."; especially if they're mechanics that have prominence in fighting games such as super moves, chains, and special canceling. With that, I must ask: What exactly is considered Smash? Can it not originate from another game?

My rebuttal is that some of these mechanics can bring about a deeper, faster, and overall more exciting game while providing some pre-emptive balancing mechanics (look at what Guilty Gear does). I'm willing to "sacrifice individuality" for stability in design.

 

[Yink]

-Listing off a few, Shiek and Yink represented the latest release at the time.
-During the 64 days, Ness made his debut as a significant icon because of smash.
-Pit hadn't had a single game released over a decade ago, same detail for the ice climbers.

Literally namesearched.

Also fun fact, Ness wasn't originally supposed to be in SSB64 iirc, it was supposed to be Lucas to support his upcoming N64 release (which never happened), and then in Melee he was left behind once again.

Just what I heard.

 

[Starphoenix]

Hey, is that guy that made the SSB4 icons still have that thread? I would like an icon for BEN

Using the picture of Elegy of Emptiness as the picture. LOL

Edit: To show my way of supporting MM Remake and Operation Moonfall




Toon Link is also capable of having his own moveset and look what they did to him. Not to mention GANONDORF of all people.

The fact is, Sakurai is lazy and would most likely not give Bowser Jr. a unique moveset based solely on his name

That guy happens to be me, and yes I do. lol

For whatever reason I'm drawing a blank on whom BEN is exactly? Refresh my memory and I'll work on it after work. Need to finish some of the other requests too.

@Kuma: I just want Nintendo Vs. Capcom. That alone will satisfy me.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

That guy happens to be me, and yes I do. lol

For whatever reason I'm drawing a blank on whom BEN is exactly? Refresh my memory and I'll work on it after work. Need to finish some of the other requests too.

@Kuma: I just want Nintendo Vs. Capcom. That alone will satisfy me.

BEN drowned is a creepypasta about a guy who bought a possessed copy of Majora's Mask. Apparently it was owned by a kid named Ben who drowned.

Everywhere the guy goes, he runs into the Elegy of Emptiness...which was freaky to begin with.

It's an internet thing.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/you-shouldnt-have-done-that#.TjGYmEdcBo4

Edit: Dang, I should have asked for Herobrine. But I can't have too many joke characters in my sig. And I already have a minecraft character

Actually, for a lot of people a game needs to as balanced as possible. This way, anyone can choose the character they want and the results matter more on an even combination of general player skill and skill with that character. No one wants a game where the character does the work for them.

I blame the following on these happenings:

1. Sakurai's obsession with having a single player emphasis.
2. Sakurai doing all the creative work on the characters, including balancing.

Had he had his priorities straightened out and allowed the rest of the team to put their input in, things would've been different.

While balance in all characters would be good, there have been plenty of competitive fighting games with horrible balance that left a few characters in abysmal tiers. Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 comes to mind.

 

[Big-Cat]

BE
While balance in all characters would be good, there have been plenty of competitive fighting games with horrible balance that left a few characters in abysmal tiers. Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 comes to mind.

Actually, I think only 15, at most, were considered remotely viable out of the 56 available characters.

And MvC2 was more like an accident than anything else. Ironically enough, it was aimed at casual audiences.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGO.

 

[Yink]

What? Interesting detail about Earthbound though. Strange details like these make me wonder a lot about the franchise.

Don't think too hard on the EarthBound franchise...Nintendo seems to hate it (by Nintendo, I mean Reggie specifically).

It was always a bit odd for Nintendo to include Ness, considering many people I'm assuming unlocked him and went "who the heck is this?". It really doesn't help the franchise in the long-run. When Ness was included, I think fans had some hope for MOTHER 3 to be released outside of Japan. America messed up pretty hard with EarthBound though, so we never got the chance to own MOTHER 3 for ourselves. Lucas was finally put in Brawl, and while it made fans happy, it also enraged many others because it was a tease to get a character from a game that's so loved inside Japan.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Don't think too hard on the EarthBound franchise...Nintendo seems to hate it (by Nintendo, I mean Reggie specifically).

It was always a bit odd for Nintendo to include Ness, considering many people I'm assuming unlocked him and went "who the heck is this?". It really doesn't help the franchise in the long-run. When Ness was included, I think fans had some hope for MOTHER 3 to be released outside of Japan. America messed up pretty hard with EarthBound though, so we never got the chance to own MOTHER 3 for ourselves. Lucas was finally put in Brawl, and while it made fans happy, it also enraged many others because it was a tease to get a character from a game that's so loved inside Japan.

I can see why it wasn't released in America, with the hermaphrodite faeries and all, but a European release probably would have sold well.

I wonder how Earthbound sold in Europe

 

[Starphoenix]

Blame the modern music industry for why we will never see EB in the West.

 

[Yink]

I mean think about EarthBound itself? There were child beating references, KKK reference, TONS of drug references and pot references. It was an extremely questionable game, and it's not even MOTHER 2. MOTHER 2 is considered worse and was edited a lot for the USA.

As much an MOTHER fan as I am, I don't know how it did in EU, but I do know that America simply wasn't ready for the kind of humor EarthBound gave off and two or three years later it was re-reviewed and praised as being an RPG that was way ahead of its time.

Sorta America's fault though, we barely cared enough to advertise for it. So in the mean time, Japan had it selling relatively well and we considered it TRASH, selling it out of Best Buy about a month later for 5 dollars.