New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Chris the Ripper]

@SSBF Well Sakurai sure as hell surprised you guys when he announced SSB4 didnt he?You were probably one of the nay-sayers of SSB's 4th coming. I sure hope that this time around Sakurai breaks one of his quotes/"rules" again.

 

[Oasis_S]

Also, screw universal rosters, Sora and Nintendo won't do this if they know what's good for them as far as sales and their fans go.

You too? >8

I mean, they're going to consider a whole batch of characters based on their merits, not whether characters would be better on the 3DS or WiiU. Because they will be considering ~50 characters, why not just put them on both versions? :/ This "a universal roster means less characters" is silly because it's riding on the assumption that the 3DS isn't very powerful/doesn't have enough memory. If they want ~50 characters, they can do ~50 characters, lol. These guys are pros, they can work around space limitations. :V

 

[Chris the Ripper]

Football Practice! Cya guys in like 3 hours!

Chris the Ripper,out!
(goneb4iblisstartstrolling )

 

[Deleted member]

@Starphoenix: I know Sin & Punishment was released in 2007, but I wonder if you think that the VC release of that game helps Saki's chances. I'm of the opinion that depending on circumstances, it slightly helps a characters chances and Saki's circumstances seems like one of these.

@SSBF Well Sakurai sure as hell surprised you guys when he announced SSB4 didnt he?You were probably one of the nay-sayers of SSB's 4th coming. I sure hope that this time around Sakurai breaks one of his quotes/"rules" again.

Actually, I thought it was a given that we would get a SSB4. It was completely inevitable in my eyes.

You too? >8

I mean, they're going to consider a whole batch of characters based on their merits, not whether characters would be better on the 3DS or WiiU. Because they will be considering ~50 characters, why not just put them on both versions? :/ This "a universal roster means less characters" is silly because it's riding on the assumption that the 3DS isn't very powerful/doesn't have enough memory. If they want ~50 characters, they can do ~50 characters, lol. These guys are pros, they can work around space limitations. :V

You're also forgetting the possibility that Sakurai includes a story mode that is bigger then SSE and doesn't properly compress the game. Those two are very real possibility and with an universal roster, would contribute to a 40ish slot roster.

 

[Starphoenix]

In Saki's case I think Super Smash Bros Brawl helped him more than anything. But considering the developers of Sin and Punishment: Star Successor created that game BECAUSE of how well the N64 title sold on the VC at that time. Obviously it says that it didn't sell too poorly.

 

[Oasis_S]

Pretty sure the roster would come first, then the story mode. We don't even know if it's going to be like the SSE, and from what we know the story mode/single-player is probably going to be rather different anyhow. And about compression, obviously if he needs to he would. Brawl didn't even take up the whole disc so why bother? lol. (unlesssomeprogrammingguyscantellmeitwasabaddecisionanyhow)

 

[Disfunkshunal]

@ssbf
Ign said the sse was 8+ hours. I highly doubt sakurai will make another adventure much longer than that.
Plus characters don't take up that much space.

 

[OmegaXXII]

You too? >8

I mean, they're going to consider a whole batch of characters based on their merits, not whether characters would be better on the 3DS or WiiU. Because they will be considering ~50 characters, why not just put them on both versions? :/ This "a universal roster means less characters" is silly because it's riding on the assumption that the 3DS isn't very powerful/doesn't have enough memory. If they want ~50 characters, they can do ~50 characters, lol. These guys are pros, they can work around space limitations. :V

I disagree, like SSBFan mentioned; it would be a great dissapoinment for the fans, not to mention it would be bad business for them as well.

The way I see is that if Sora does decide on the idea of universal rosters, which version would you think people would consider getting? Chances are people are more likely to overlook the 3DS version and go with the better looking version of it which would probably hold more content anyway.

The point that I'm trying to say is that if the 3DS version had an exclusive character such as a 3rd party like Banjo-Kazooie or a Nintendo character that's exclusive to the 3DS that would otherwise never appear on the Wii-U version people would be attracted to it's exclusivity which would result in bigger sales from both systems if people intend to have every character, not to mention variation between the two such as different SSE's and such.

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty sure the roster would come first, then the story mode. We don't even know if it's going to be like the SSE, and from what we know the story mode/single-player is probably going to be rather different anyhow. And about compression, obviously if he needs to he would. Brawl didn't even take up the whole disc so why bother? lol. (unlesssomeprogrammingguyscantellmeitwasabaddecisionanyhow)

Read this for why the compression sucked. Just because the 3DS might be able to handle 50 slots doesn't mean we're going to get even close to that. And what if Sakurai wants a story mode larger then the SSE? He will not hesitate to sacrifice characters so that he can get his story mode done, even if it means a 35-40 slots roster. There is more to Sakurai's mind now then just what characters to put in SSB4 and I doubt his main intention is the characters.

 

[Starphoenix]

If anything the music sound compressed. I swear sometimes it sounds as though they never even attempted to equalize anything. Not only that but the instruments sound "off too? Don't get me wrong, the Brawl soundtrack was fantastic. But it was not perfect, there were EQ problems with a major portion of the soundtrack. Having a slight "muddled" feel to them. Seriously, what the heck happened to Planet Colors? Have to turn up the volume on my TV just to hear it. :\

Sometimes the notes are not as sharp as they could be. Background instrumentation conflicts with the lead on some (hello His World). It is more technical issues for me.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I also believe that the Wii-U version will be able to handle and show CG cinematics much smoothly and effortlessly, not to say that the 3DS isn't capable of such a thing, I'm not going to underestimate the 3DS either, but still it's the Wii-U were talking about, I believe it it have it's limitations shown compared to the Wii-U's

 

[Oasis_S]

I disagree, like SSBFan mentioned; it would be a great dissapoinment for the fans, not to mention it would be bad business for them as well.

The way I see is that if Sora does decide on the idea of universal rosters, which version would you think people would consider getting? Chances are people are more likely to overlook the 3DS version and go with the better looking version of it which would probably hold more content anyway.

The point that I'm trying to say is that if the 3DS version had an exclusive character such as a 3rd party like Banjo-Kazooie or a Nintendo character that's exclusive to the 3DS that would otherwise never appear on the Wii-U version people would be attracted to it's exclusivity which would result in bigger sales from both systems if people intend to have every character, not to mention variation between the two such as different SSE's and such.

...It would be a disappointment to have ~50 characters on each version? :/

The 3DS version is going to sell well regardless, so they don't have to worry about that. People aren't going to be buying a portable Smash for how well it looks anyway. We also know the 3DS version is going to have a mode(s?) to make it more enjoyable as a more single-player experience. There would surely be content that you can transfer from the 3DS version that you would ordinarily not be able to obtain on the WiiU version. Alternate costumes maybe? There's your "exclusive" content. Just a little bonus for having both.

IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS a lot of the people who buy it are not going to even know what characters are in the games. Probably won't care. Smash 64 had all the biggest names Nintendo can offer, so as long as they have those EIGHT recognizable characters that's all that really matters. Who would the make exclusive? Starfy? Isaac? Are those names really going to make sales?

I'm sure a lot of buyers would be happier knowing all their favorite characters are on both versions.

@SSBF: So yeah, it took up a lot of space, but they had enough space to be lazy like that. No one but hackers would even notice that, so why is it a problem? Again, if they NEED to save space, they can. IF ANYTHING that's showing that Brawl could have taken, like, 4 GB? The character data on that 4 GB didn't take up much space itself. That extra 3 or 4 GB is WAY more than enough room to fit, like, 10 more characters. lolol.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If anything the music sound compressed. I swear sometimes it sounds as though they never even attempted to equalize anything. Not only that but the instruments sound "off too? Don't get me wrong, the Brawl soundtrack was fantastic. But it was not perfect, there were EQ problems with a major portion of the soundtrack. Having a slight "muddled" feel to them. Seriously, what the heck happened to Planet Colors? Have to turn up the volume on my TV just to hear it. :\

Yeah some tracks just weren't loud enough. Others were too loud.

 

[OmegaXXII]

If anything the music sound compressed. I swear sometimes it sounds as though they never even attempted to equalize anything. Not only that but the instruments sound "off too? Don't get me wrong, the Brawl soundtrack was fantastic. But it was not perfect, there were EQ problems with a major portion of the soundtrack. Having a slight "muddled" feel to them. Seriously, what the heck happened to Planet Colors? Have to turn up the volume on my TV just to hear it. :\

Sometimes the notes are not as sharp as they could be. Background instrumentation conflicts with the lead on some (hello His World). It is more technical issues for me.

THIS reason is solely why I support the idea of having a custom music option, then we could set it to our liking, not saying that the Brawl tracks were bad, but like you mentioned bad equalizing.

 

[Deleted member]

...It would be a disappointment to have ~50 characters on each version? :/

The 3DS version is going to sell well regardless, so they don't have to worry about that. People aren't going to be buying a portable Smash for how well it looks anyway. We also know the 3DS version is going to have a mode(s?) to make it more enjoyable as a more single-player experience. There would surely be content that you can transfer from the 3DS version that you would ordinarily not be able to obtain on the WiiU version. Alternate costumes maybe? There's your "exclusive" content. Just a little bonus for having both.

IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS a lot of the people who buy it are not going to even know what characters are in the games. Probably won't care. Smash 64 had all the biggest names Nintendo can offer, so as long as they have those EIGHT recognizable characters that's all that really matters. Who would the make exclusive? Starfy? Isaac? Are those names really going to make sales?

I'm sure a lot of buyers would be happier knowing all their favorite characters are on both versions.

You obviously don't recognize that OmegaXVII was referring to the fact that we may not even get forty slots with universal roster.

It is true that the 3DS version will sell off mainly on single-player content; but that's not what fan comes for in general.

The main point of Smash is to play with Nintendo characters from past and present and that includes all characters, not just famous Nintendo characters. If that was the case, we would have never gotten Ice Climbers in the first place and probably not Ness or Lucas either if Sakurai does take the entire planet into account. That's why Smash is regarded as so special to fans like me; because it brings all type of Nintendo characters into the mix. I want this expanded in SSB4 to add characters like Starfy and Ray and I have my doubts about an universal roster delivering on this.

 

[Starphoenix]

Yeah some tracks just weren't loud enough. Others were too loud.

It isn't just that, there are other technical issues with some of the songs too. Like HIS WORLD, great example. When the song goes into it's chorus the lead instrument bleeds too much into the background, making the song sound "messy". The frequency should have been dropped on the backtrack to give the lead guitar slightly more prominence. But that is just one of many tracks that suffer from "bleeding backgrounds", the instrumentation lacks clarity. Want an example of that? Listen to Brinstar. Seriously, listen to that? The guitar is SOOOO muted it might as well be a SNES soundfont!

Hyperbole aside, this is all on top of the volume problem we have with others. Oh, and this doesn't even cover some of the plain awful re-arrangements we received. But do you want to guess what did get the best musical treatment? The Subspace tracks... This was the best one, never understood why this never made it to a stage? http://youtu.be/0FXggG9MeBg

For the record, this is my favorite song in Brawl.

Super Smash Bros. Melee - Multi-Man Melee 1

THIS reason is solely why I support the idea of having a custom music option, then we could set it to our liking, not saying that the Brawl tracks were bad, but like you mentioned bad equalizing.

All I care about is if these songs return they are remastered. No excuse with so much space, in regards to the Wii U.

 

[Oasis_S]

You obviously don't recognize that OmegaXVII was referring to the fact that we may not even get forty slots with universal roster.

We would totally get ~50 characters with a universal roster. Pessimism isn't a very good reason to believe otherwise. :/

It is true that the 3DS version will sell off mainly on single-player content; but that's not what fan comes for in general.

The main point of Smash is to play with Nintendo characters from past and present and that includes all characters, not just famous Nintendo characters. If that was the case, we would have never gotten Ice Climbers in the first place and probably not Ness or Lucas either if Sakurai does take the entire planet into account. That's why Smash is regarded as so special to fans like me; because it brings all type of Nintendo characters into the mix. I want this expanded in SSB4 to add characters like Starfy and Ray and I have my doubts about an universal roster delivering on this.

What does this have to do with anything, much less what I said. You want more characters, yet you don't want a universal roster? :/

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

BRSTM files aren't even compressed though, so two songs that are exactly 3 minutes long, use the same number of channels, and use the same sample rates, would use the exact same amount of memory, regardless of sound quality.

 

[Deleted member]

Want an example of that? Listen to Brinstar. Seriously, listen to that? The guitar is SOOOO muted it might as well be a SNES soundfont!

I loved the Melee remix. It's one of my favorite song in Melee and Brawl. The Brawl remix was just terrible.

 

[Starphoenix]

BRSTM files aren't even compressed though, so two songs that are exactly 3 minutes long, use the same number of channels, and use the same sample rates, would use the exact same amount of memory, regardless of sound quality.

I know that, I said if anything the sound files SOUND compressed. It was hyperbole. No it was just bad instrumentation and little mastering. That sums up the issues I have with Brawl's soundtrack.

I loved the Melee remix. It's one of my favorite song in Melee and Brawl. The Brawl remix was just terrible.

This was my favorite Melee track... Why Sakurai? Why on earth did this song not return? :'(

 

[OmegaXXII]

OMG!!

Fourside was awesome!!

I also liked Brinstar, Giga Koopa theme, Menu 2 and Battlefield (theme 2), those were undoubtebly the best songs ever.

 

[Lord Hokage]

HeY YA!! whaT's up?

 

[Deleted member]

We would totally get ~50 characters with a universal roster. Pessimism isn't a very good reason to believe otherwise. :/

What does this have to do with anything, much less what I said. You want more characters, yet you don't want a universal roster? :/

What makes you think we would get more with an universal roster? You are comparing an upcoming console with a handheld. The next console will probably be considerably more powerful then a PS3 whereas the 3DS is only above that of the Wii. These are completely different league of power and the 3DS will never be close to the Wii-U in power.

Why does it have something with what you say? Because what I'm saying is that with an universal roster, Sakurai will be much more likely to neglect the main concept of Smash; to play with Nintendo characters from your childhood and to be able to smack other Nintendo favorites as well. Childhood memory don't consistent entirely of Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda, they can also consist of Earthbound, Ice Climbers, Golden Sun, and Starfy, maybe even Sin & Punishment if you lived in Japan. If we get exclusives on the Wii-U, Sakurai will have no excuse to do it and as such, we will almost certainly get a mid-40s slot roster on the Wii-U. Plus most people are going for the Wii-U version, not 3DS version.

And you say that we would get 50ish characters with an universal roster? You are setting yourself up for disappointment. The chances of that happening is probably almost non-existence. Also, my reason for saying we will likely end up with 40 or less character slot roster if we get universal roster is more then just pessimistic behavior, what I provided shows that Sakurai will more likely then not disregard the benefit of properly compressing the game.

 

[Lightosia]

The only problem I have with Brawl music are the lost tracks:
Because I love you
Smiles and Tears
Beware the Forest's Mushrooms
Ballad of the Wind Fish
Eight Melodies
Boss Battle
You can do anything
The loner Falco Lombardi
Twoson


Sooo many Earthbound songs...

 

[Lord Hokage]

I liKe MeGaman themEs ALOT!!

 

[Starphoenix]

The only problem I have with Brawl music are the lost tracks:
Because I love you
Smiles and Tears
Beware the Forest's Mushrooms
Ballad of the Wind Fish
Eight Melodies
Boss Battle
You can do anything
The loner Falco Lombardi
Twoson


Sooo many Earthbound songs...

All of those were probably cut because of conflicting atmosphere issues with the stage present. Although the Earthbound tracks would have gone with Onett, but for whatever absurd reason no Melee stages had any songs outside of Melee tracks on them. Which was a poor decision in my mind as some songs would have fit better on Melee stages:

Nature Area = Green Greens

So that may explain why so man Earthbound tracks were cut. They didn't fit New Pork City's atmosphere. No idea why Ballad of the Windfish didn't go too Pirate Ship, but there was a reason. Beware The Forest Mushroom was probably copyright issues. Everything else, who knows... Although I for one am glad we were spared You Can Do Anything... >_>

 

[OmegaXXII]

One thing about the roster is that I'd rather set my expectations low rather than to expect 50+ characters, especially in both versions, it's better to be shocked in a good way than to be disappointed by the end result.

There is no reason Sora should
have to make the roster's universal, it's a lame excuse and just would show how uncreative and lazy they are to please the fans; regardless of the number of character included.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I know that, I said if anything the sound files SOUND compressed. It was hyperbole. No it was just bad instrumentation and little mastering. That sums up the issues I have with Brawl's soundtrack.

That can be understandable. Mario Kart Double Dash!!'s Rainbow Road was rather poor, mostly because it wasn't loud enough.

And of course, there is the Melee songs as well. Icicle Mountain sounds way too different from its original version.

Also, very few Kirby tracks go well with the Halberd stage. In fact, a great deal of songs were placed on stages where they don't even work with the stage's atmosphere.

 

[Lord Hokage]

IHATEMEGAMANX100

I LIKE THIS THREAD DISCUSSION, ANY BRAWL SONG COMING BacK?

 

[Disfunkshunal]

What makes you think we would get more with an universal roster? You are comparing an upcoming console with a handheld. The next console will probably be considerably more powerful then a PS3 whereas the 3DS is only above that of the Wii. These are completely different league of power and the 3DS will never be close to the Wii-U in power.
hypothetically let's say the forbidden 7 were actually in brawl, this would bring the character slot count up to 41. Since you said yourself the 3ds is more powerful than the wii, there is no reason there would be less that 40 slots

Why does it have something with what you say? Because what I'm saying is that with an universal roster, Sakurai will be much more likely to neglect the main concept of Smash; to play with Nintendo characters from your childhood and to be able to smack other Nintendo favorites as well. Childhood memory don't consistent entirely of Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda, they can also consist of Earthbound, Ice Climbers, Golden Sun, and Starfy, maybe even Sin & Punishment if you lived in Japan. If we get exclusives on the Wii-U, Sakurai will have no excuse to do it and as such, we will almost certainly get a mid-40s slot roster on the Wii-U. Plus most people are going for the Wii-U version, not 3DS version.

And you say that we would get 50ish characters with an universal roster? You are setting yourself up for disappointment. The chances of that happening is probably almost non-existence. Also, my reason for saying we will end up with 40 or less character slot roster is more then just pessimistic behavior, what I provided shows that Sakurai will more likely then not disregard the benefit of properly compressing the game. why do you assume he won't compress this time. Post other examples of his games that show he has a habit of not compressing. Otherwise this could just be a result of time constraints

@omega
Are you in favor of being able to transfer 3ds exclusives

 

[Lightosia]

All of those were probably cut because of conflicting atmosphere issues with the stage present. Although the Earthbound tracks would have gone with Onett, but for whatever absurd reason no Melee stages had any songs outside of Melee tracks on them. Which was a poor decision in my mind as some songs would have fit better on Melee stages:

Nature Area = Green Greens

So that may explain why so man Earthbound tracks were cut. They didn't fit New Pork City's atmosphere. No idea why Ballad of the Windfish didn't go too Pirate Ship, but there was a reason. Beware The Forest Mushroom was probably copyright issues. Everything else, who knows... Although I for one am glad we were spared You Can Do Anything... >_>

However, this and this are in the game.
why.jpg

 

[Starphoenix]

That can be understandable. Mario Kart Double Dash!!'s Rainbow Road was rather poor, mostly because it wasn't loud enough.

And of course, there is the Melee songs as well. Icicle Mountain sounds way too different from its original version.

Also, very few Kirby tracks go well with the Halberd stage. In fact, a great deal of songs were placed on stages where they don't even work with the stage's atmosphere.

However, this and this are in the game.
why.jpg

Actually, the thing, is those songs work. We NEED tracks that can change the atmosphere of the stage. If you don't the stage will become stale, no matter how good the songs may be. In context to their stages they work. My issue with Nature Area is because there is nothing "natural" in the stage! The song itself just suits Green Greens better.

 

[Sonic Poke]

OMG!!

Fourside was awesome!!

I also liked Brinstar, Giga Koopa theme, Menu 2 and Battlefield (theme 2), those were undoubtebly the best songs ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2WsuxQFmNA

This is classic!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I can think of a fair few songs from Brawl that should get an encore for Smash 4...

WarioWare, Inc.
Star Wolf (Star Fox Assault)
Flat Zone 2
Bramble Blast
Checker Knights
Menu 1 (Super Smash Bros. Melee)
Battlefield
Marionation Gear
Final Destination
Main Theme (Super Smash Bros. Melee)
VS Ridley
Theme of Samus Aran, Space Warrior
Against the Black Knight

 

[OmegaXXII]

@omega
Are you in favor of being able to transfer 3ds exclusives

Of course I am, why you may ask?

Because it would offer the convenience of transferring content between the two, like characters that would probably be 3DS exclusive, extra unlockable modes, trophies, costumes, music etc... There's alot that connectivity between the two that they would benifit from, no need to make them the same exact game.

 

[Sonic Poke]

My list of Pokes:

Mew
Weezing
Moltres
Pichu, Mewtwo and Lucario (will work as an assist trophy common, walking, stalking and applying attacks)
Suicune
Arceus
Torterra
Victini
Darkai
Happiny
Beedrill
Rapidash
Zebstrika
Emolga
Bouffalant
Onix
Piplup
Buizel
Munchlax
Weavile
Mightyena
Gardevoir
Metagross
Groudon
Deoxys
Jirachi
Kyogre
Celebi
Lugia

What do you Think?

 

[Lightosia]

My favorite Melee music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24r39BcVg78&feature=related

 

[Sonic Poke]

My favorite Melee music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24r39BcVg78&feature=related

I had forgotten about this! is very good!

 

[Oasis_S]

What makes you think we would get more with an universal roster? You are comparing an upcoming console with a handheld. The next console will probably be considerably more powerful then a PS3 whereas the 3DS is only above that of the Wii. These are completely different league of power and the 3DS will never be close to the Wii-U in power.

When people say "I think there will be a universal roster" they're saying "I think there will be ~50 characters on both versions" not "Less than 40 on both versions." You need to keep that in mind. What does console power have to do with roster size? Do you think they're going to be ports or something? The 3DS version is going to have a lot of what the WiiU version has, it's just going to have worse graphics. ("Worse" being Wii graphics, which isn't even that bad) Each version will be built separately, but under the same direction. MEMORY is the important part, and considering Brawl could have had plenty enough room for ~50 characters on its disc if it had been compressed, the 3DS version, with a cart the same memory size as a double layer Wii disc, will have just as much room. It is entirely possible to fit ~50 characters on the 3DS version.

Why does it have something with what you say? Because what I'm saying is that with an universal roster, Sakurai will be much more likely to neglect the main concept of Smash; to play with Nintendo characters from your childhood and to be able to smack other Nintendo favorites as well. Childhood memory don't consistent entirely of Mario, Pokemon, and Zelda, they can also consist of Earthbound, Ice Climbers, Golden Sun, and Starfy, maybe even Sin & Punishment if you lived in Japan. If we get exclusives on the Wii-U, Sakurai will have no excuse to do it and as such, we will almost certainly get a mid-40s slot roster on the Wii-U. Plus most people are going for the Wii-U version, not 3DS version.

How the hell is having a ~50 character roster on both versions neglecting the aspect of Smash that allows you to play as all your favorite characters? And I'm not arguing for version exclusives, silly. That's like, the complete opposite of a universal roster.

And you say that we would get 50ish characters with an universal roster? You are setting yourself up for disappointment. The chances of that happening is probably almost non-existence. Also, my reason for saying we will likely end up with 40 or less character slot roster if we get universal roster is more then just pessimistic behavior, what I provided shows that Sakurai will more likely then not disregard the benefit of properly compressing the game.

Notice I always say "~50" and not "50ish." I thought it was well known that the ~ when used like that stands for "approximately." My expected roster size range is 46 - 51 total. 51 being what I would say is the maximum, 48 being what what I expect, and 46 being a satisfactory minimum amount I suppose. And if you think he will compress it, giving him BUNCHES more space, (plus I thought you just said you thought he wouldn't...?) what makes you think he won't use that space for characters?

 

[OmegaXXII]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2WsuxQFmNA

This is classic!

Good stuff, the menu definitely brought chills to me back then :/

Other tracks from Super Smash Bros. 64 that I'd like to see are

Master Hand Theme (Smash 64)
Saffron City (Smash 64)
Meta Theme (Metal battle 64)
Polygon Team Battle
Planet Zebes (Smash 64)

They could have at least had them in Brawl, but hopefully they'll come back as DLC content.

I'm going to suggest this in Operation Connect.