New Smash Bros for WiiU

[nLiM8d]

I would ask whether it is matters that make a character interesting, important overall or is that certain characters have certain appeal and contribution to a specific franchise that makes them exceptional?

What would be so necessary about Peach, Jigglypuff, Diddy Kong, DDD, Zelda, or even Marth that defines them as they were distinct? That is, beyond representing a specifc genre or upholding significance about a given franchise.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

@Iblis: The fact that Sakurai made both. Nuff said.

 

[Luco]

I'm not sure that "unique" or "interesting" are even the right words to be using. In some ways, they still matter, but maybe "individual" is more at the core of it? Lucas is a pretty weird addition. Same abilities as Ness, looks almost identical. He's rather obscure too, compared to the rest. Now, his moveset isn't what propelled him to a spot on the roster. I've wondered that maybe it was Sakurai's attempt to get Mother 3 more recognition for an international release. Maybe it was just going back to his idea of adding Lucas in Melee. BUT WHAT REALLY SETS HIM APART FROM NESS...

It's his personality, isn't it? Lucas is more unsure of himself. He has that... meekness about him. It's brought up a lot too. His trophy and Snake codec mention how he "grew stronger." It's something Sakurai was trying to push forth. Aside from his moveset being much different than Ness, maybe even something that... subtle? is what Sakurai also looks for when trying to make sure every addition feels like an "individual."

Hmm, you think so? It's true that there are a wide variety of characters different from each other in so many ways... and you can see Sakurai has gone to excruciating effort to make them different. With that, though, how would he decide on any given character? He could choose any, when you think about it, like someone from scribblenauts or Cecil from final fantasy...

...

I... I dunno. That's not a bad point, though, Oasis.

 

[Conviction]

OBJECTION! Without, Sakurai there would be no smash. ThinkAgain.

@Oasis: I believe you are toying with it. We can make educated guesses on characters but other aspects of the game too. Also as of recently we touched almost every bases of character choice, don't you want to build on it? Like we did with a certian purple dragon and his moveset. I'll still do those precents for his moves if you want me to.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I've actually been more or less dissapointed in the series though since the greatness that was Squeek Squad.

The powers in that game work better than any other game. Other than Dreamland 2 where you specifically had to find the right power/ animal combination to even unlock the rain drops or whatever the hell they were

 

[Conviction]

@Poppy: Mind giving an actual response? 'Nuff said.

 

[Luco]

Oh that reminds me, a great way to rejuvenate the thread would be to look back in to character move sets. Sure, we love Falco but we want him more different from fox, for instance. in the whole time i've been on this thread, I don't think i've seen any revamped movesets for falco, wolf, one of the links and perhaps some others.

 

[Conviction]

Yes, you read my mind Luco.

Even though I've made a Link revamp...

 

[Mitsuo]

Perhaps, or possibly not. If we are making Phoenix Wright quotes, then HOLD IT! We have no basis for reasoning, so either way, we could sit here and argue like the character selection choices and their so called "unique-ness," even with the number of clones.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The star fox trio ain't my specialty

I'm more of a Mario, Kirby, Donkey Kong kind of person

Maybe a little bit Zelda or even Metroid

 

[Oasis_S]

Hmm, you think so? It's true that there are a wide variety of characters different from each other in so many ways... and you can see Sakurai has gone to excruciating effort to make them different. With that, though, how would he decide on any given character? He could choose any, when you think about it, like someone from scribblenauts or Cecil from final fantasy...

...

I... I dunno. That's not a bad point, though, Oasis.

He couldn't choose any. Kind of like when one says "I could kill the person next to me right now." You can't. It would be possible for Sakurai to just abandon everything he believes about what makes a good choice for a character, but he won't.

That's why I don't like when people say "It's all subjective," AND think that makes every character stand on equal ground. That's just not true. There is a reason the same 20 or so characters keep popping up in our discussions.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

We aren't going to discuss characters if they aren't new. NEW OR GTFO

But seriously, a Toon Link, Ganondorf, Sonic, and Pit revamp would be nice. Interestingly half of that is the Zelda franchise, man Sakurai doesn't respect the Legends.

 

[---]

Oh that reminds me, a great way to rejuvenate the thread would be to look back in to character move sets. Sure, we love Falco but we want him more different from fox, for instance. in the whole time i've been on this thread, I don't think i've seen any revamped movesets for falco, wolf, one of the links and perhaps some others.

I think Falco is already different enough from Fox. lol

But yeah, sounds like fun (just as long as we derp it down so non-competitives, or competitve noobs, like myself, can understand). I've been hoping to do my own list of character changes one of these days.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

We should list the characters WE bring up the most in conversation. See how different it is than polls and stuff we've conducted

 

[nLiM8d]

That's why I don't like when people say "It's all subjective," AND think that makes every character stand on equal ground.

The matter of subjectivity is based around why we think a character is important enough to bring up on a frequent basis.

We don't always agree on what makes something interesting. While I find Paper Mario amazing, I don't care much at all for Pit.

Does that make pit uninteresting? No, but at the same time I don't find him interesting.

Does that make Pit any less significant than PM? Judging by how Pit made his way into the series (granted my pick didn't at all) does mention something about what characters are noteworthy.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

@Poppy: Mind giving an actual response? 'Nuff said.

Simple. Kirby has such a big part in Smash because both were created by the same guy.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It's basically super star turned into a fighting game. That's the impression I always got

 

[Mitsuo]

It's basically super star turned into a fighting game. That's the impression I always got

So basically, Megaton Punch became Brawl? I like it.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

The reason for that is because it is platforming (Nintendo being the king of that, so it is no surprise) meets fighting. That is why I, who sucks at fighting games, is somehow inherently decent at it because I'm good at platforming.

 

[BKupa666]

Simple. Kirby has such a big part in Smash because both were created by the same guy.

Indeed, to the point where Kirby is promoted as one of Nintendo's Big Four alongside Mario, Link and Pikachu instead of Donkey Kong. If the Big Four are based around series sales, wouldn't Donkey Kong be the clear fourth character?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Indeed, to the point where Kirby is promoted as one of Nintendo's Big Four alongside Mario, Link and Pikachu instead of Donkey Kong. If the Big Four are based around series sales, wouldn't Donkey Kong be the clear fourth character?

10+ years ago he would have

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

So basically, Megaton Punch became Brawl? I like it.

I always felt Megaton Punch turned into Home-Run Contest.

 

[The Drilling Juggernaut]

It's basically super star turned into a fighting game. That's the impression I always got

That's what I've described it as. Word for word actually.

 

[Conviction]

Simple. Kirby has such a big part in Smash because both were created by the same guy.

If Sakurai didn't make Brawl, Nintendo was going to. Moot.

 

[Mitsuo]

The reason for that is because it is platforming (Nintendo being the king of that, so it is no surprise) meets fighting. That is why I, who sucks at fighting games, is somehow inherently decent at it because I'm good at platforming.

But the way you said that, good sir, is putting two differences in equality. So shouldn't your platforming skills be the same as your fighting skills? Or are you that bad at platforming all together?

 

[BKupa666]

10+ years ago he would have

Smash 64 was made before DK64, and when the DK series was in a major spot of prominence.

 

[nLiM8d]

And yet Samus was nowhere to be found in the first E3 demo (Brawl)

How about that

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Smash was made before DK64, and when the DK series was in a major spot of prominence.

Well, it was made pretty close to the end of the 64 era if I remember correctly

Donkey Kong 64 wasn't exactly the best DK game ever and the super nintendo had been gone for years

Yes, Donkey Kong was still top sales, even into the gamecube era though.

There was also the fact Nintendo didn't much care for the DKC series

 

[Holder of the Heel]

No, it is fighting skill + platforming skill = smash skill. Therefore, despite my lack of the former, with a high amount of the latter allows for me to be acceptable in smash skill.

There is the technical aspect that fighters have that I'm bad at, but the jumping around and controlling my character, something you do in platformers, is something I do well since I play Nintendo primarily and I'm used to it. I'm not used to the techniques and finesse fighting games have because I am not familiar with the fighting game genre.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

If Sakurai didn't make Brawl, Nintendo was going to. Moot.

And who said Nintendo would make it the exact same way?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

That doesn't change the fact that Sakurai started Smash and Kirby. Brawl is irrelevant to that fact.

 

[Conviction]

And who said Nintendo would make it the exact same way?

Not my point. Smash would still exist. Don't try to deviate.

EDIT: Holder: How does being the creator of one game matter about the creator of another. SEGA

 

[Mitsuo]

No, it is fighting skill + platforming skill = smash skill. Therefore, despite my lack of the former, with a high amount of the latter allows for me to be acceptable in smash skill.

There is the technical aspect that fighters have that I'm bad at, but the jumping around and controlling my character, something you do in platformers, is something I do well since I play Nintendo primarily and I'm used to it. I'm not used to the techniques and finesse fighting games have because I am not familiar with the fighting game genre.

What is so hard about pushing the A or B button, and pushing the control stick in a certain direction? Don't you do that in platformers already? We're not talking Blazblue here.

 

[Oasis_S]

The matter of subjectivity is based around why we think a character is important enough to bring up on a frequent basis.

We don't always agree on what makes something interesting. While I find Paper Mario amazing, I don't care much at all for Pit.

Does that make pit uninteresting? No, but at the same time I don't find him interesting.

Does that make Pit any less significant than PM? Judging by how Pit made his way into the series (granted my pick didn't at all) does mention something about what characters are noteworthy.

IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK. IT'S ABOUT WHAT SAKURAI MIGHT THINK.

Tell me, N. What is it that you have just now realized.

 

[nLiM8d]

There is the technical aspect that fighters have that I'm bad at, but the jumping around and controlling my character, something you do in platformers, is something I do well since I play Nintendo primarily and I'm used to it.

That's probably what they were going for when designing the games, but anyone that is remotely familiar with Melee will tell you:

There's just more to it than that.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I think N realized that pokemon and humans can live and love in the same world together and summoning great ancient evils to destroy the world doesn't solve your problems

 

[Conviction]

No, it is fighting skill + platforming skill = smash skill. Therefore, despite my lack of the former, with a high amount of the latter allows for me to be acceptable in smash skill.

There is the technical aspect that fighters have that I'm bad at, but the jumping around and controlling my character, something you do in platformers, is something I do well since I play Nintendo primarily and I'm used to it. I'm not used to the techniques and finesse fighting games have because I am not familiar with the fighting game genre.

Pressing buttons and moving intricate ways a good FG player makes. Do you not do this in Platformers?

Something doesn't make sense...

 

[Holder of the Heel]

It has nothing to do with pressing buttons and moving the control stick. That's the thing, pressing the buttons and moving the control stick is about as deep as platforming gets. But in fighting games there is a lot of knowledge of technical things that create a much deeper experience using the very shallow blocks that is the platforming. Therefore, I am good at the basics, more so than the average person, but knowledge and consistency that is required in being good at fighting games, I lack.

You guys are looking at the fact that both platforming and fighting games both involve pushing the buttons... with that logic, might as well compare one skill with all skills. But there are different mentalities. It isn't quite that simple.

 

[Conviction]

Basics=Good. Concepts are basics. In other words the sooner people understand the basics/concepts the sooner the become high level players. That's real

 

[nLiM8d]

I think N realized that pokemon and humans can live and love in the same world together and summoning great ancient evils to destroy the world doesn't solve your problems

Were you that impatient for my response?