New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Big-Cat]

That reminds me. Project M did a good job with changing his moves. I watched about a minute of the gameplay in that video and immediately noticed his new FAir.

Hopefully, Sakurai will change Sonic since he had nothing to do with how he turned out.

 

[Conviction]

Wait, did SEGA do Sonic's moveset??

*sigh*

The trend continues.

@N: I think fanbases got Sonic's back more than a removal does atm.

 

[nLiM8d]

You've got to consider, this was about the time Sonic 06 came out. During a time SEGA really didn't know what to do with Sonic.

I disagree, the Fanbase doesn't really care about Sonic at this point in the game. Far too many missed opportunities.

 

[Conviction]

My point exactly N, the trend continued. Maybe this time around if they keep going foward in Sonic games, his moveset will be better.

Where they portraying the confused state his series was at that time? If so, they are very clever.

 

[Big-Cat]

Wait, did SEGA do Sonic's moveset??

*sigh*

The trend continues.

@N: I think fanbases got Sonic's back more than a removal does atm.

It was never said who did Sonic's moveset. All we know is that Sakurai didn't work on either Link or Sonic.

 

[Conviction]

@N: We'll just have to see if he doesn't make it in this time around. I have to disagree with you though. There are still those people who buy a Sonic game just because he is in it.

@Kuma: Interesting. I wish they would release info like that

 

[nLiM8d]

Where they portraying the confused state his series was at that time? If so, they are very clever.

I think we're all a little disillusioned about what to make of Sonic today

There are still those people who buy a Sonic game just because he is in it.

The poor Naiive consumer.

 

[Big-Cat]

@Kuma: Interesting. I wish they would release info like that

What would that accomplish though? What's done is done. We got a cast with underwhelming movesets and we can't do anything about it until the next game.

@N

Think of the dramatic difference it would make for his hitbox structure. There's a reason why Samus doesn't rely on that kind ability as a part of her moveset (morph ball stance)

I don't see what the big deal about this is. The characters that transform/switch out change hitboxes do it already and it doesn't seem to affect anything drastically in terms of balance aside from the fact that one character is significantly stronger than the other (Zamus > Samus, Sheik > Zelda, Squirtle > Charizard, Ivysaur).

 

[Conviction]

I think we're all a little disillusioned about what to make of Sonic today

The best part is, he still ate it. Seems like it follows the whole "buy the game because he is in thing" XD

What would that accomplish though? What's done is done. We got a cast with underwhelming movesets and we can't do anything about it until the next game.

I just like to know the info. Same way they have trophies and such.

Spoiler

Even though I don't even look at them

 

[nLiM8d]

The characters that transform/switch out change hitboxes do it already and it doesn't seem to affect anything drastically.

Please, do divulge on the scenario. If we're going back to your Gen example, that's a whole different scenario.

No, those examples are not the same deal as what you're suggesting for Sonic. The change from Samus to Zamus is drastically different than having her take on something like a Morph Ball stance.

 

[Conviction]

Looks like SEGA doesn't learn that a gimmick like Sonic Colors has an one time appeal and likes to mess with time traveling (>____>) that isn't Sonic CD. The only thing I hope they are going for is the original idea they had in Sonic Adventure 2 (before they changed it last second and made him Shadow), is the dark personality of Sonic will be Terios (translates from some langauge to "reflection of", or maybe Scourage will make an appearance outside of the comics.

@Kuma: Are you still applying this Sonic? I don't understand where you are even trying to go anymore with this.

 

[Big-Cat]

Looks like SEGA doesn't learn that a gimmick like Sonic Colors has an one time appeal and likes to mess with time traveling (>____>) that isn't Sonic CD

@Kuma: Are you still applying this Sonic? I don't understand where you are even trying to go anymore with this.

Actually, I was talking about Samus' morph ball mode. If anyone should have an alternate mode, it's Samus.

And I swear, I think I need to talk to shorts about getting my words as "Smash friendly" as possible.

 

[Conviction]

You do. I thought I linked you to a Smash abbreviation thread and all that jazz a while back?

 

[Big-Cat]

That reminds me. Why the heck is move recovery called lag? If anything, the startup should be called that. Either way, I still think lag is a misnomer in more ways than one.

And can you give me the link again? I still don't like how some terminology is just a reinvention of a pre-existing term. I remember that there was a fancy name for a Samus AT that would be called a kara-cancel in other circles.

 

[Conviction]

Standard Terms

Man, is there a way to appeal to people so there is more than just 3 people holding a conversation? I know you guys must get tired of being on the sidelines. I would get tired of seeing the same 3 to 4 people talking on and on for pages, and I use 40 post per page so I know it must be even worse for those who don't.

 

[nLiM8d]

I feel like I'm at a Junior High School dance, talk all big beforehand on getting down with the opposite sex, but everyone's just post up in the BG.

 

[Conviction]

Maybe we need a Smash version of these people

@Tri: I see you lurking, why so quiet homie?

 

[Big-Cat]

Standard Terms

Man, is there a way to appeal to people so there is more than just 3 people holding a conversation? I know you guys must get tired of being on the sidelines. I would get tired of seeing the same 3 to 4 people talking on and on for pages, and I use 40 post per page so I know it must be even worse for those who don't.

So I just skimmed through the terms. Things like glide tossing, stutter step FSmash, and Dash Dancing that all require canceling out of the initial frames of some animation are what we call kara (Japanese for empty) canceling. In fact, glide tossing uses the same concept of covering more space just like Ken's kara throw which cancels his forward MK into a throw.

Honestly, I read these techniques and I either visualize something different than it actually is (like glide tossing) or I think the description is way more complex than it really is. A friend of mine just now described how to do a wavedash in a handful of words.

 

[Conviction]

I hope you weren't doing the Japanese translation for me XD

What the hell is a forward MK? Mid-kick? Metaknight?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Medium Kick, Iblis. Forward + Medium Kick (f.mK), or if we use the Japanese fighter notation, it'd be 6.mK. Although in the case of the Japanese/anime fighter, the attack buttons usually aren't delineated by levels of power. In GG you have Punch, Kick, Slash, Hard Slash, and Dust, for example. If wanted to say I did a forward + Hard Slash with Sol Badguy, I'd say 6.HS (Hard Slash).

Honestly I think some of the terminology in Smash is really counter-intuitive, especially with some of the crap coined in Brawl (no offense to anybody who plays Brawl competitively). That's the one thing I like about the notations in the FGC---you'll get the gist of things a lot quicker thanks to how streamlined it is.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Big-Cat]

I hope you weren't doing the Japanese translation for me XD

What hell is a forward MK? Mid-kick? Metaknight?

Medium kick. Sorry, I didn't think writing that out was going to be necessarily relevant to the core message. And I put the translation because not only is Japanese context specific (or so I hear), but because no one else is going to know why the word "kara".

I remember how we were noticing that so many things use similar appreviations. Like MK has medium kick, Meta Knight, Mario Kart, Mortal Kombat, etc.

@Michael Jackson
Not only that, but the vast majority of the terminology transfers from game to game. Anything that is something exclusive to a game because of its mechanics.

 

[Conviction]

So I just skimmed through the terms. Things like glide tossing, stutter step FSmash, and Dash Dancing that all require canceling out of the initial frames of some animation are what we call kara (Japanese for empty) canceling. In fact, glide tossing uses the same concept of covering more space just like Ken's kara throw which cancels his forward MK into a throw.

Honestly, I read these techniques and I either visualize something different than it actually is (like glide tossing) or I think the description is way more complex than it really is. A friend of mine just now described how to do a wavedash in a handful of words.

So we are basically on the same page? I'll try to take some time to learn some other FG terms.

Medium Kick, Iblis.

Smooth Criminal

Thanks, Smooth.

Medium kick. Sorry, I didn't think writing that out was going to be necessarily relevant to the core message.

I remember how we were noticing that so many things use similar appreviations. Like MK has medium kick, Meta Knight, Mario Kart, Mortal Kombat, etc.

Yeah, nothing's safe anymore.

 

[nLiM8d]

That's the one thing I like about the notations in the FGC---you'll get the gist of things a lot quicker thanks to how streamlined it is.

.
This is pretty much the reality of the deal; It shouldn't take too much intuition to understand a concept like juggling.

Above all, the things we perform are essentially automatic. I mean, in what situation would I find it necessary to describe a Medium Kick in Smash Brothers?

 

[Conviction]

Oh wow, that does make a lot of sense. I'm guessing the numbers are directions right Smooth? (I might start using that instead)

 

[Big-Cat]

.
This is pretty much the reality of the deal; It shouldn't take too much intuition to understand a concept like juggling.

Above all, the things we perform are essentially automatic. I mean, in what situation would I find it necessary to describe a Medium Kick?

If you're playing Street Fighter or Skullgirls for starters.

Oh wow, that does make a lot of sense. I'm guessing the numbers are directions right Smooth? (I might start using that instead)

Yep. Look at this Virtua Fighter link as well. They go more into the number notation including holding a directional input. For example, holding forward would be written as 6_.
http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/53361

 

[---]

@Tri: I see you lurking, why so quiet homie?

Just stopping by. I don't have anything to say or add so that's why I've been quiet the past day or so.

 

[nLiM8d]

Lol, recent edit Kuma.

But its good to know some things can keep your attention

 

[Conviction]

Just stopping by. I don't have anything to say or add so that's why I've been quiet the past day or so.

Sadface

They go more into the number notation including holding a directional input. For example, holding forward would be written as 6_.
http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/53361

Favorited.

Hmmm...6tilt

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Take a look here for some info about notations across various fighting games.

Some of the articles are even nice enough to give primers to people that are entirely new to the game. They explain things like that specific game's button layout, button notation, and a quick glossary of its mechanics.

Feel free to ignore the metagame-y stuff.

And, as Kuma said, you'll find that almost all of the information provided can carry over from one game to to the next.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Big-Cat]

Favorited.

Hmmm...6tilt

Actually, I wanna say FTilt and FSmash would be written as 6_A and 6A respectively, but I could be wrong.

 

[Conviction]

So now to bring this all around to the point of this thread. How can we relate and speculate things like this inclusion into Smash?

 

[Metal Overlord]

What's good, y'all

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Actually, I wanna say FTilt and FSmash would be written as 6_A and 6A respectively, but I could be wrong.

I got it.

A = Neutral Attack. Not much needs to be said here. Just a character swinging their limbs in a neutral state.

AA.A = The process of abbreviating certain 3 hit chains with characters; the period there could denote a pause, followed by another press of the A button for the third hit. Some characters in Brawl, like Snake, had a really good abbreviated AAA chain for shield pressure, footsies, and oki. You could also set people up for a Star KO ala U-Tilt thanks to the hitstun. In Melee, Captain Falcon was one of the more well-known characters for having this abridged method of attacking, ala the gentleman. It was kind of used in the same way as Snake's abridged chain, with the only difference being that it can be used to feasibly edgeguard in Melee thanks to its engine.

AAA = Standard Chain. You press the A button in rapid succession three times, and your characters goes into their fixed little combo thingie.

AAA~ = As above, but you keep mashing A for their machine gun punches (or slashes, or whatever).

And so on. I'll post more ideas later as they come to me; in the middle of stuffing my face right now.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Starphoenix]

@Star: It does have a SA2 feeling to it. I enjoyed Custom Robo to the fullest on the GC. Would the stage have to do with a lot of moving floors? Disappearing floors into virtual lava? That's what I can imagine. More reason they should add Ray to the Smash roster...haha

It doesn't have to, considering most holloseum's do not have moving parts, I can see the stage being static.

And Star, have you done a Custom Robo stage concept? I can't quite remember.

Yes, it was my very first one. Not as detailed, though I might change that in the future:

So I have been doing some stage concepts for the next Smash Bros. game recently. I wanted a way to keep them together and link without having to find every post I made. Plus it gives me a space where I can continue adding more of my concepts without clogging up the SSB4 thread.

Not the best picture in the world but this should give everyone an idea of what a Custom Robo stage would look like.

Video: http://youtu.be/lZGcC3oNoRo

Aesthetically it would share a design much like what is presented in the above media add platforms, a little more wireframe, all while retaining the neon tech design. The platforms would be the top surface of the two walls, in below them would give you access to the floor of the arena. Giving you two levels to fight on. When on the ground the walls will pose as an obstacle. Beyond the walls the remainder of the floor leads into the "KO boundary". The background would have many different "cyber" animations and effects that one would expect of an internet based stage. More distinctly you would be able to view the "Custom Robo cannon" in the background swiveling and firing Custom Robo characters into the background. Simple design conveying the arena theme.

An example: _|-|__|-|_

Name: Cyber Holosseum
Icon: Custom Robo cube

Custom Robo 64 - Custom Battle
Custom Robo 64 - Gift From Me
Custom Robo V2 - Custom Battle 2
Custom Robo V2 - Capsule Holesseum
Custom Robo V2 - The Strong Enemy of Goliath
Custom Robo GX - Regular Battle
Custom Robo: Battle Revolution - Heaven
Custom Robo: Battle Revolution - Frozen Game
Custom Robo: Battle Revolution - Scramble
Custom Robo: Battle Revolution - The Danger
Custom Robo Arena - Basic Battle
Art Style: Light Trax - Superplay
Chosoju Mecha MG - Marionation Gear (Brawl)

When NOISE first started they were owned by Marigul Management, and all games made under that umbrella had a fairly low budget. Eventually Marigul closed, and Noise was one of only two development teams to not shut down. That's when Custom Robo started getting a little more polish, but I agree it still doesn't have that much. I still find it fun though, and I really hope the series continues. It's not like Noise does anything else anyway. I still play Custom Robo Arena more than I do some of my 3DS games. It would be very interesting to see how the 3D holosseum (the fighting arena in Custom Robo) transfers to a 2D stage in Smash (if Custom Robo ever manages to get one).

Battle Revolution seemed pretty good to me as far as the battles go graphically. No by today's standards it is nothing extraordinary, but it wasn't bad.

 

[Big-Cat]

So now to bring this all around to the point of this thread. How can we relate and speculate things like this inclusion into Smash?

Inclusion of what now?

 

[nLiM8d]

So now to bring this all around to the point of this thread. How can we relate and speculate things like this inclusion into Smash?

Really based on the outcome of the Smash games, its apparent that there was more emphasis placed on how to make these games less focused on the technical aspect of fighting.

As players are introduced to the capabilites of the genre, they have more than enough details to be convinced that this is not a fighting game.

So where are we at this point? Well a good majority of our conversations concerning this subject is whether or not Smash introduces game mechanics that promote balance. That balance researched settings, character abilities, attributes...really the emphasis of this style of gameplay is centered around what options cater to the mechanics.

KumaOso describes this as a sort of character mold, which would be introducing character options based on Specials and what inputs build up their profile.

I like Brawl in how it helped us to discover the nature of this genre. Being only the third iteration in the series, certainly there were some things that we've come accustomed to expect from any progression of sequels as far as depth is concerned; especially to the magnitude of such a blockbuster title as Smash.

There are several fighting games have innumerable sequels and spin offs, which the focus of these sequels is to retain the essence of their respective genres. Then we have a game like Street Fighter 4 where there is meant to be specific level of significance as far as progression is concerned: What have we seen before and how does that knowledge help us appreciate new expansions to the genre?

I digress to help propogate some appreciation for the evolution of series. Brawl had many of us concerned for the essence of what made Melee an exceptional addition to the series (In reality we're only looking at number 2). If you'll notice, there are a lot of ways Brawl deviated in respect to how players evaluated the Smash metagame; so much so, that there have been full scale projects dedicated to reinstating those aspects.

The real question is how much emphasis are we placing on a specific style of play that motivates the direction of a specific genre?

To answer that question is to understand what extent the next sequel can alter the Smash formula we've come to understand.

It doesn't have to, considering most holloseum's do not have moving parts, I can see the stage being static.

Its a shame that you feel that way about it. A stage that at least moves about the action in the fashion Custom Robo does would really compliment the next step up for the next step in stage design.

Not saying that the stage transforms, moreso in the style that the Haliberd is stationary, yet polarized (for lack of a better term) ie a flythrough stage

 

[Big-Cat]

And you say you can't understand what I'm saying.

As players are introduced to the capabilites of the genre, they have more than enough details to be convinced that this is not a fighting game.

What?

So where are we at this point? Well a good majority of our conversations concerning this subject is whether or not Smash introduces game mechanics that promote balance. That balance researched settings, character abilities, attributes...really the emphasis of this style of gameplay is centered around what options cater to the mechanics.

I see it more as the mechanics catering to options. Case in point, the fact that a lot of Smash combo videos you see are typically using the same five aerial moves.

KumaOso describes this as a sort of character mold, which would be introducing character options based on Specials and what inputs build up their profile.

The mold I was referring to was the template that's used for ALL characters. Outside of directional FTilts and FSmashes, you cannot have any more normals than the template provides. Likewise, you cannot have any more or any fewer specials than four, not counting variations of specials such as Falcon Kick.

I like Brawl in how it helped us to discover the nature of this genre. Being only the third iteration in the series, certainly there were some things that we've come accustomed to expect from any progression of sequels as far as depth is concerned; especially to the magnitude of such a blockbuster title as Smash.

Huh?

There are several fighting games have innemerable sequels and spin offs, which the focus of these sequels is to retain the essence of their respective genres. Then we have a game like Street Fighter 4 where there is meant to be specific level of significance as far as progression is concerned: What have we seen before and how does that knowledge help us appreciate new expansions to the genre?

Um... ok.

The real question is how much emphasis are we placing on a specific style of play that motivates the direction of a specific genre?

What do you mean by these styles of play?

 

[Conviction]

We out.

 

[augustoflores]

oh Iblis... you're a Smash Legend!

also, here's a Smash Bros Trailer for you guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eEWc1remE8&feature=g-u-u

 

[Starphoenix]

Its a shame that you feel that way about it. A stage that at least moves about the action in the fashion Custom Robo does would really compliment the next step up for the next step in stage design.

Not saying that the stage transforms, moreso in the style that the Haliberd is stationary, yet polarized (for lack of a better term) ie a flythrough stage

I get what you're saying, for me though I use those type of dynamic stages for places that have a breadth in scope such as Delfino Plaza, or are linear, beginning at one point and ending at another (ie, F-Zero, Sin and Punishment). It's difficult to explain, but I have a design philosophy behind my decision.

Holloseums are meant to be mini arenas, as such I think a static stage would be appropriate. Besides, I'm about to redo my stage concept anyways (I want to make the first post a menu), and make it more of a knock off stage versus a walk off one.

We out.

I didn't realize you took Custom Robo so personally.